US user suing Apple for hearing loss

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Flintstone, Oct 12, 2006.

  1. Flintstone

    Flintstone Guest

    Apparently a US user of an iPod is suing Apple for hearing loss while
    using his iPod. Has he not heard of a thing called volume control.?
     
    Flintstone, Oct 12, 2006
    #1
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  2. Flintstone

    Russell Guest

    Flintstone wrote:
    >
    > Apparently a US user of an iPod is suing Apple for hearing loss while
    > using his iPod. Has he not heard of a thing called volume control.?


    Eh? What's that? Speak up man!

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
     
    Russell, Oct 12, 2006
    #2
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  3. Flintstone

    Rob Guest

    Flintstone wrote:
    > Apparently a US user of an iPod is suing Apple for hearing loss while
    > using his iPod. Has he not heard of a thing called volume control.?


    I see that the litigant is not claiming personal loss of hearing.

    From Arstechnica - http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060202-6100.html

    > Although Patterson himself does not claim to have actually suffered hearing loss,

    the complaint filed with the U.S. District Court in San Jose claims that
    the capacity
    of the device to exceed 115 decibels presents a legitimate risk
    Apple already includes a cautionary notice with the documentation of
    every iPod,
    which warns that "permanent hearing loss may occur if earphones or
    headphones are
    used at high volume." Patterson considers this warning inadequate, and
    wants something
    to be done about it.<

    Maybe Apple should include an audible warning that plays first every
    time the ipod is used.

    How about a warning on every pair of shoes that warns wearers that
    wearing undersize shoes may cause permanent damage to the feet.

    Some people seem to think that everyone needs protection from their own
    stupidity. They'd have us all encased in cotton wool and never leave the
    safety of home if they got their way. I hope this case gets thrown out
    before more do-gooders get in on the act.


    --
    Rob

    http://grumpyalien.blogspot.com/

    Just remember: you're not a "dummy," no matter what those computer
    books claim. The real dummies are the people who, though technically
    expert, couldn't design hardware and software that's usable by normal
    consumers if their lives depended upon it. (Walter Mossberg)
     
    Rob, Oct 12, 2006
    #3
  4. Flintstone

    Allistar Guest

    Flintstone wrote:

    > Apparently a US user of an iPod is suing Apple for hearing loss while
    > using his iPod. Has he not heard of a thing called volume control.?


    That's as bad as someone blaming McDonalds for making them fat. Some people
    have no sense of personal responsibility.

    Allistar.
     
    Allistar, Oct 12, 2006
    #4
  5. Flintstone

    Mike MacNabb Guest

    Allistar wrote:

    > Flintstone wrote:
    >
    > > Apparently a US user of an iPod is suing Apple for hearing loss while
    > > using his iPod. Has he not heard of a thing called volume control.?

    >
    > That's as bad as someone blaming McDonalds for making them fat. Some people
    > have no sense of personal responsibility.



    In America, people have infamously sued McDonalds for the coffee being
    too hot, so now it is luke-warm.

    Nothing about America is surprising.
     
    Mike MacNabb, Oct 12, 2006
    #5
  6. Flintstone

    Vista Guest

    "Mike MacNabb" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Allistar wrote:
    >
    >> Flintstone wrote:
    >>
    >> > Apparently a US user of an iPod is suing Apple for hearing loss while
    >> > using his iPod. Has he not heard of a thing called volume control.?

    >>
    >> That's as bad as someone blaming McDonalds for making them fat. Some
    >> people
    >> have no sense of personal responsibility.

    >
    >
    > In America, people have infamously sued McDonalds for the coffee being
    > too hot, so now it is luke-warm.
    >
    > Nothing about America is surprising.
    >


    Maybe some of these companies should counter sue these yanks with these
    frivolous claims, for wasting their time and damaging their rep.
     
    Vista, Oct 13, 2006
    #6
  7. Flintstone

    Steve Guest

    On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 11:27:29 +1300, Rob wrote:

    > Flintstone wrote:
    >> Apparently a US user of an iPod is suing Apple for hearing loss while
    >> using his iPod. Has he not heard of a thing called volume control.?

    >
    > I see that the litigant is not claiming personal loss of hearing.
    >
    > From Arstechnica - http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060202-6100.html
    >
    >> Although Patterson himself does not claim to have actually suffered hearing loss,

    > the complaint filed with the U.S. District Court in San Jose claims that
    > the capacity
    > of the device to exceed 115 decibels presents a legitimate risk
    > Apple already includes a cautionary notice with the documentation of
    > every iPod,
    > which warns that "permanent hearing loss may occur if earphones or
    > headphones are
    > used at high volume." Patterson considers this warning inadequate, and
    > wants something
    > to be done about it.<
    >
    > Maybe Apple should include an audible warning that plays first every
    > time the ipod is used.
    >
    > How about a warning on every pair of shoes that warns wearers that
    > wearing undersize shoes may cause permanent damage to the feet.
    >
    > Some people seem to think that everyone needs protection from their own
    > stupidity. They'd have us all encased in cotton wool and never leave the
    > safety of home if they got their way. I hope this case gets thrown out
    > before more do-gooders get in on the act.


    What kind of decibels? dBA and dB-SPL are the common ones and are quite
    different. My first job out of college was working in a sound lab, and
    coincided with the introduction of the walkman. At that time ( nearly 25
    years ago! ), we used lemmy and a plastic head to prove it was very easy
    to permanently damage your hearing. We wrote about it then, in learned
    journals. ISTR being 5 metres from concorde on takeoff was mentioned.

    Why has nothing been done about it until now?

    Steve
    ( not that I have any support for the suer at all, I hasten to add! )
     
    Steve, Oct 13, 2006
    #7
  8. Flintstone

    thingy Guest

    Flintstone wrote:
    > Apparently a US user of an iPod is suing Apple for hearing loss while
    > using his iPod. Has he not heard of a thing called volume control.?


    Probably the same family that had a woman sue McDonald's over coffee
    that was too hot....(hence why we see the Caution contents hot warning)....

    Like some ppl should just be on the Darwin awards....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Oct 13, 2006
    #8
  9. In message <egm80q$lo0$>, Flintstone wrote:

    > Apparently a US user of an iPod is suing Apple for hearing loss while
    > using his iPod. Has he not heard of a thing called volume control.?


    There was a researcher who found that people listening to music on
    headphones tended to turn the volume up louder than those listening on
    speakers. Something about the lack of environmental cues to help them gauge
    relative sound levels.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Oct 13, 2006
    #9
  10. In message <>, Steve wrote:

    > ISTR being 5 metres from concorde on takeoff was mentioned.


    If you were 5 metres from a Concorde on takeoff, you're likely to suffer
    damage to more parts of your body than just your hearing. :)
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Oct 13, 2006
    #10
  11. In <egm80q$lo0$> Flintstone wrote:
    > Apparently a US user of an iPod is suing Apple for hearing loss while
    > using his iPod. Has he not heard of a thing called volume control.?


    Some time ago Apple added a new setting to the iPod firmware which
    allows the maximum volume to be limited to whatever you like. I wonder
    what the complainer would like Apple to do? It's easy to just say reduce
    the maximum output, but the actual audio output depends on the
    headphones used. I can't stand in-ear phones and use ones with padded
    speakers which clip over the ears. Since the speakers aren't right in
    the ears these (theoretically, I haven't measured anything) would take
    more power to drive to get the same sound level.

    Hmm, maybe I'll sue my car's manufacturer for selling me a vehicle that
    can exceed the open road speed limit, even though I never speed.

    --
    * Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand -> http://roger.geek.nz
    * PS/2 Mouse Adapter for vintage Apple II or Mac
    * SCART RGB cable for Apple IIGS
     
    Roger Johnstone, Oct 13, 2006
    #11
  12. Flintstone

    Donchano Guest

    On 13 Oct 2006 08:23:41 GMT, Roger Johnstone
    <> magnanimously proffered:

    >Hmm, maybe I'll sue my car's manufacturer for selling me a vehicle that
    >can exceed the open road speed limit, even though I never speed.


    I'm waiting for the US lawsuit in which some idiot sues the doctor,
    midwife, hospital, etc where the idiot was delivered on the basis that
    if they hadn't delivered the idiot then the idiot wouldn't have been
    born and grown up to be such an idiot.
     
    Donchano, Oct 13, 2006
    #12
  13. Flintstone

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Donchano wrote:
    > On 13 Oct 2006 08:23:41 GMT, Roger Johnstone
    > <> magnanimously proffered:
    >
    >> Hmm, maybe I'll sue my car's manufacturer for selling me a vehicle that
    >> can exceed the open road speed limit, even though I never speed.

    >
    > I'm waiting for the US lawsuit in which some idiot sues the doctor,
    > midwife, hospital, etc where the idiot was delivered on the basis that
    > if they hadn't delivered the idiot then the idiot wouldn't have been
    > born and grown up to be such an idiot.
    >
    >
    >

    You missed the bit about the idiot growing up and becoming POTUS :)
     
    -=rjh=-, Oct 13, 2006
    #13
  14. Flintstone

    Earl Grey Guest

    Steve wrote:

    >
    > What kind of decibels? dBA and dB-SPL are the common ones and are quite
    > different. My first job out of college was working in a sound lab, and
    > coincided with the introduction of the walkman. At that time ( nearly 25
    > years ago! ), we used lemmy and a plastic head to prove it was very easy
    > to permanently damage your hearing. We wrote about it then, in learned
    > journals. ISTR being 5 metres from concorde on takeoff was mentioned.
    >
    > Why has nothing been done about it until now?
    >


    You aren't allowed that close to concorde on takeoff anymore, too many
    people were going deaf.

    Its not possible to prove hearing loss due to headphone usage, since
    there are so many other excessive noise sources in modern life, and
    headphones still need to function for those who already have hearing loss.
     
    Earl Grey, Oct 13, 2006
    #14
  15. In message <452f5e79$>, Earl Grey wrote:

    > Steve wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> What kind of decibels? dBA and dB-SPL are the common ones and are quite
    >> different. My first job out of college was working in a sound lab, and
    >> coincided with the introduction of the walkman. At that time ( nearly 25
    >> years ago! ), we used lemmy and a plastic head to prove it was very easy
    >> to permanently damage your hearing. We wrote about it then, in learned
    >> journals. ISTR being 5 metres from concorde on takeoff was mentioned.
    >>
    >> Why has nothing been done about it until now?
    >>

    >
    > You aren't allowed that close to concorde on takeoff anymore, too many
    > people were going deaf.


    s/deaf/dead/
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Oct 13, 2006
    #15
  16. Flintstone

    S.Nufkin Guest

    In article <452ec154$>, Rob <> wrote:

    > Some people seem to think that everyone needs protection from their own
    > stupidity. They'd have us all encased in cotton wool and never leave the
    > safety of home if they got their way. I hope this case gets thrown out
    > before more do-gooders get in on the act.


    Not a prayer. We're talking America here, the land of ambulance-chasing
    lawyers and juries with a collective IQ around room temp (admittedly in
    deg F).

    --
    S. Nufkin
    [I started life with nothing and still have most of it left]
     
    S.Nufkin, Oct 13, 2006
    #16
  17. Flintstone

    jasen Guest

    On 2006-10-13, Steve <> wrote:

    > What kind of decibels? dBA and dB-SPL are the common ones and are quite
    > different. My first job out of college was working in a sound lab, and
    > coincided with the introduction of the walkman. At that time ( nearly 25
    > years ago! ), we used lemmy and a plastic head to prove it was very easy
    > to permanently damage your hearing. We wrote about it then, in learned
    > journals. ISTR being 5 metres from concorde on takeoff was mentioned.


    those early walkmans had a pretty impressive output.

    I hooked one to a pair of 8 ohm speakers and it put out what I estimate was
    3 to 8 watts (rms)


    Bye.
    Jasen
     
    jasen, Oct 13, 2006
    #17
  18. Flintstone

    Richard Guest

    Steve wrote:

    > What kind of decibels? dBA and dB-SPL are the common ones and are quite
    > different. My first job out of college was working in a sound lab, and
    > coincided with the introduction of the walkman. At that time ( nearly 25
    > years ago! ), we used lemmy and a plastic head to prove it was very easy
    > to permanently damage your hearing. We wrote about it then, in learned
    > journals. ISTR being 5 metres from concorde on takeoff was mentioned.
    >
    > Why has nothing been done about it until now?



    It has, in france or somewhere else similar thats full of euro-coddlers
    they have to limit the output of portable audio to something quite low.
    There is seperate firmware for the irivers that have the limit on it.

    What this means is that the already pathetic headphone amp in them cant
    even get anywhere near its potentail for if you plug a proper set of
    headphones into it. Grrr. And if you are unlucky enough to have to use a
    headphone out as a line out, you get an even lower level signal.
     
    Richard, Oct 13, 2006
    #18
  19. Flintstone

    Donchano Guest

    On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 21:49:59 +1300, -=rjh=- <>
    magnanimously proffered:

    >Donchano wrote:
    >> On 13 Oct 2006 08:23:41 GMT, Roger Johnstone
    >> <> magnanimously proffered:
    >>
    >>> Hmm, maybe I'll sue my car's manufacturer for selling me a vehicle that
    >>> can exceed the open road speed limit, even though I never speed.

    >>
    >> I'm waiting for the US lawsuit in which some idiot sues the doctor,
    >> midwife, hospital, etc where the idiot was delivered on the basis that
    >> if they hadn't delivered the idiot then the idiot wouldn't have been
    >> born and grown up to be such an idiot.
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >You missed the bit about the idiot growing up and becoming POTUS :)


    Without a doubt he is and idiot, but who sez POTUS has ever grown up?
    ;-)
     
    Donchano, Oct 13, 2006
    #19
  20. Flintstone

    Don Hills Guest

    In article <egnqkq$i5v$>, jasen <> wrote:
    >
    >those early walkmans had a pretty impressive output.
    >
    >I hooked one to a pair of 8 ohm speakers and it put out what I estimate was
    >3 to 8 watts (rms)


    I agree that early players tended to be more powerful than current ones, but
    you can't break Ohm's Law. The theoretical maximum would be about 2.25 watts
    RMS, assuming a 6 volt Walkman such as the Sony WM-1. Some were 3 volt, such
    as the WM-2. They were also designed for 32 ohm headphones, and would often
    produce less output on lower loads such as 8 ohms. In practice, you'd be
    looking at no more than 250 to 300 mW RMS into 32 ohms (6 volt player) and
    no more than 500 mW RMS into 8 ohms. I found my old WM-1 in a box the other
    day, if it still goes I'll measure its output.

    Now if you want to talk about politically incorrect output, I have a Sony
    ES-505 CD player from the mid 80s. The headphone output on that can produce
    a measured 8 volts RMS, undistorted, into a 32 ohm load. That's 2 watts.
    Using Sennheiser HD250 headphones as an example, they produce sound levels
    of 94 dB SPL at 1 mW. They're rated to 200 mW - that works out to about 140
    dB. Definitely hearing damage level - and painful.

    Since the Sony player can drive 2 watts into these phones, that's 150 dB...
    I'm very careful not to turn the headphone output up too high, especially on
    modern hypercompressed music. I imagine there'd be a brief burst of sound
    followed by tiny puffs of smoke as the voice coils burnt out.

    --
    Don Hills (dmhills at attglobaldotnet) Wellington, New Zealand
    "New interface closely resembles Presentation Manager,
    preparing you for the wonders of OS/2!"
    -- Advertisement on the box for Microsoft Windows 2.11 for 286
     
    Don Hills, Oct 14, 2006
    #20
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