US Gov looking for input about IE ONLY pre-patient web site...

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by Imhotep, Aug 14, 2005.

  1. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    I am not sure if this affects anyone but, I thought I would post it. I think
    it is BS to restrict access to a Gov agency. Definitely worth a law suit if
    they do this as it is restricting my access to a governmental agency.

    http://lwn.net/Articles/147197/

    Im
    Imhotep, Aug 14, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Imhotep

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 23:57:14 GMT, Imhotep <> wrote:

    >I am not sure if this affects anyone but, I thought I would post it. I think
    >it is BS to restrict access to a Gov agency. Definitely worth a law suit if
    >they do this as it is restricting my access to a governmental agency.
    >
    >http://lwn.net/Articles/147197/


    Then put your money where your mouth is and issue a writ.

    Many electronic banking packages are restricted to IE because
    of its security features.
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Aug 14, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Imhotep

    Management Guest

    Jim Watt wrote:

    > Many electronic banking packages are restricted to IE because
    > of its security features.
    > --
    > Jim Watt
    > http://www.gibnet.com


    Now that just is not true, it comes down being lazy and cheap. In
    fact at least one US government security agency has advised people
    to use 'alternative browsers', meaning Firefox, Opera, etc.

    My wife & I have a number of US & UK bank accounts between us that
    are very happy to accept accept Firefox. Not forgetting Amazon,
    eBay, paypal and every site that I've bought from.

    With IE's position being gradually eaten away we will see all sites
    having be able to deal with Firefox, etc.

    Quite simply a sensible website designer will design his/her site to
    be compliant with web standards - that is not use any IE specific
    coding (no ActiveX) and not use Frontpage to create it. That way the
    designer can be sure that the site will render correctly in all
    graphical browsers.


    Charlie.


    PS: this is my last response to you Jim lad as it seems to me that
    you just like to argue blindly. Hope the sun is shining on you in
    Gibraltar :)



    --
    Broadcasting to the environs
    www.radiowymsey.org
    Management, Aug 14, 2005
    #3
  4. Imhotep

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:39:10 +0100, Management
    <> wrote:

    >Jim Watt wrote:
    >
    >> Many electronic banking packages are restricted to IE because
    >> of its security features.
    >> --
    >> Jim Watt
    >> http://www.gibnet.com

    >
    >Now that just is not true,


    So you say. Thats not what some banks state when specifying
    the requirements to use their services.

    >My wife & I have a number of US & UK bank accounts between us that
    >are very happy to accept accept Firefox. Not forgetting Amazon,
    >eBay, paypal and every site that I've bought from.


    I use it too, but still have to use IE for certain websites.

    >With IE's position being gradually eaten away we will see all sites
    >having be able to deal with Firefox, etc.


    Heres some current statistics

    Browser % of Total Visitors
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    1 Internet Explorer 6.x 75.46%
    2 Netscape 6.x 8.49%
    3 Internet Explorer 5. 4.78%
    4 Netscape 4.x 3.01%
    5 Others 2.00%

    >Quite simply a sensible website designer will design his/her site to
    >be compliant with web standards - that is not use any IE specific
    >coding (no ActiveX) and not use Frontpage to create it. That way the
    >designer can be sure that the site will render correctly in all
    >graphical browsers.


    That statement is not correct, there are some subtle differences
    between firefox and IE6 and I don't use activeX or frontpage.

    >PS: this is my last response to you Jim lad as it seems to me that
    >you just like to argue blindly. Hope the sun is shining on you in
    >Gibraltar :)


    Everyone has opinions, facts can be established.

    see: http://www.gibnet.com/weather.htm
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Aug 14, 2005
    #4
  5. Jim Watt wrote:

    >Many electronic banking packages are restricted to IE because
    >of its security features.


    Thanks for the comedy. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.
    I'd be very interested to read anything that would shed some light on
    that statement. Anything to back it up.
    Micheal Robert Zium, Aug 14, 2005
    #5
  6. "Management" <> wrote in message
    news:42ff3b37$0$18648$...
    > Jim Watt wrote:
    >
    > > Many electronic banking packages are restricted to IE because
    > > of its security features.
    > > --
    > > Jim Watt
    > > http://www.gibnet.com

    >
    > Now that just is not true, it comes down being lazy and cheap. In
    > fact at least one US government security agency has advised people
    > to use 'alternative browsers', meaning Firefox, Opera, etc.


    I'd love a cite on that one (preferably not from an evangalist). My company
    codes cross-platform, so it's something that would be useful to me
    personally in discussions (all large customers - aside from a Nutscrape 4.7
    French car maker - are 100% IE outside of the IT department)

    The main problem, incidentally, really *is* laziness - they don't
    specifically code for Firefox when they check the browser major version.
    Given its roots, one might view this as sheer arrogance from Firefox.

    > My wife & I have a number of US & UK bank accounts between us that
    > are very happy to accept accept Firefox. Not forgetting Amazon,
    > eBay, paypal and every site that I've bought from.


    The vst majority are. The killer (as described above) is where you have to
    have particular features - usually a minimum of 128-bit SSL. IIRC, that
    "only" came out in 1999. I still stumble across 800x600 Windows 3 desktops,
    let alone the hoards of Win95 users still lurking out there. As Jim says, if
    you check the small-print, you'll probably find that your bank only support
    IE. Use something different, by all means, but don't expect *support*.

    You'll find the same thing (at least in the UK) when it comes to ISPs and
    DSL/Cable routers. Loads have 'em, but you'd be hard-pressed to find an ISP
    that *officially* offers support for them. Hell, since my ISP went IBM (via
    Bangalore), I've had to explain how SMTP works from the bottom up, just to
    get them to fix a bad switch/option on one box in a farm of otherwise
    correctly-configured servers...

    > Quite simply a sensible website designer will design his/her site to
    > be compliant with web standards - that is not use any IE specific
    > coding (no ActiveX) and not use Frontpage to create it. That way the
    > designer can be sure that the site will render correctly in all
    > graphical browsers.


    Frontpage (retch).

    The only site that I access with ActiveX is Windows Update, and things that
    require plug-ins such as Flash or PDF (same damn technology under the
    covers, no matter how you dress it up). The only time that the sites differ
    is when using a Mozilla pixel (which is a different size to every other
    pixel) and browser-specific limitations. In other words, look-and-feel,
    rather than content.

    --

    Hairy One Kenobi

    Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
    reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
    in the first place. So there!

    P.S. Message to OP: copyright isn't a patent, which is the nearest typo I
    can get to "patient". Duncha just lurve spellchuckers? ;o)
    Hairy One Kenobi, Aug 14, 2005
    #6
  7. "Micheal Robert Zium" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Jim Watt wrote:
    >
    > >Many electronic banking packages are restricted to IE because
    > >of its security features.

    >
    > Thanks for the comedy. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.
    > I'd be very interested to read anything that would shed some light on
    > that statement. Anything to back it up.


    RBS/Natwest currently mandate IE. FirstDirect (Midland, now HSBC) used to,
    when I was with them. A friend with Barclays was unable to access e-banking
    with Firefox, but I'm not sure of their official policy. I think that
    Commerzbank recently kludged to allow it.

    A quick search reveals that Commerce Bank & Trust in the US (never heard of
    'em) do officially support Firefox. As do Berliner Bank and Sparkasse
    Pforzheim in Germany, and HVB Bank in the Czech Republic (although only on
    Windows). Feel free to go beyond the first 100 Google hits...

    --

    Hairy One Kenobi

    Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
    reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
    in the first place. So there!
    Hairy One Kenobi, Aug 14, 2005
    #7
  8. Imhotep

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 17:59:03 GMT, "Hairy One Kenobi"
    <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

    >RBS/Natwest currently mandate IE. FirstDirect (Midland, now HSBC) used to,


    I tried Firefox with Natwest and it worked, it didn't before so they
    must have changed things. Barclaycard told me they had a lot
    of trouble changing their system to work cross browser. HSBC
    did mandate it, but currently say any browser with 128bit encryption
    as do Customs and Excise.

    However, talking of banks one which used BT for technical
    support had trouble with their dial up backup. It turned out that
    they forgot to allow for the UK changing its IDD access code from
    010 to 00 the BT guy was a bit sheepish about that ...
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Aug 14, 2005
    #8
  9. Imhotep

    Steve Welsh Guest

    Hairy One Kenobi wrote:
    > .... A friend with Barclays was unable to access e-banking
    > with Firefox....


    I use ibanking at Barclays, and have used Firefox with absolutely no
    problems at all, right from version 0.7 of Firefox and straight 'out of
    the box', both on Windoze and Linux versions, so I don't know where that
    one comes from.

    Steve
    Steve Welsh, Aug 14, 2005
    #9
  10. Imhotep

    Steve Welsh Guest

    Hairy One Kenobi wrote:
    > .... A friend with Barclays was unable to access e-banking
    > with Firefox....


    I use ibanking at Barclays, and have used Firefox with absolutely no
    problems
    at all, right from version 0.7 of Firefox and straight 'out of the box',
    both
    on Windoze and Linux versions, so I don't know where that one comes from.

    Steve
    Steve Welsh, Aug 14, 2005
    #10
  11. Imhotep

    Steve Welsh Guest

    Hairy One Kenobi wrote:
    > .... A friend with Barclays was unable to access e-banking
    > with Firefox....


    I use ibanking at Barclays, and have used Firefox with absolutely no
    problems
    at all, right from version 0.7 of Firefox and straight 'out of the box',
    both
    on Windoze and Linux versions, so I don't know where that one comes from.

    Steve
    Steve Welsh, Aug 14, 2005
    #11
  12. "Steve Welsh" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hairy One Kenobi wrote:
    > > .... A friend with Barclays was unable to access e-banking
    > > with Firefox....

    >
    > I use ibanking at Barclays, and have used Firefox with absolutely no
    > problems at all, right from version 0.7 of Firefox and straight 'out of
    > the box', both on Windoze and Linux versions, so I don't know where that
    > one comes from.


    Well, the version he used, against the site version at Barclays at the time,
    apparently didn't work. IIRC, it was a widely-publicised major version check
    (Firefox used to report version zero/one, haven't check myself, recently,
    whether it now reports the correct Mozilla version)

    BTW, you might want to deselect the "post thrice" option ;o)

    H1K
    Hairy One Kenobi, Aug 14, 2005
    #12
  13. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    Micheal Robert Zium wrote:

    > Jim Watt wrote:
    >
    >>Many electronic banking packages are restricted to IE because
    >>of its security features.

    >
    > Thanks for the comedy. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.
    > I'd be very interested to read anything that would shed some light on
    > that statement. Anything to back it up.


    The guy is an idiot. He makes me laugh (at him) a lot...at least he is good
    for something.

    Imhotep
    Imhotep, Aug 14, 2005
    #13
  14. Imhotep

    Steve Welsh Guest

    Hairy One Kenobi wrote:
    > "Steve Welsh" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>Hairy One Kenobi wrote:
    >>
    >>>.... A friend with Barclays was unable to access e-banking
    >>>with Firefox....

    >>
    >>I use ibanking at Barclays, and have used Firefox with absolutely no
    >>problems at all, right from version 0.7 of Firefox and straight 'out of
    >>the box', both on Windoze and Linux versions, so I don't know where that
    >>one comes from.

    >
    >
    > Well, the version he used, against the site version at Barclays at the time,
    > apparently didn't work. IIRC, it was a widely-publicised major version check
    > (Firefox used to report version zero/one, haven't check myself, recently,
    > whether it now reports the correct Mozilla version)
    >
    > BTW, you might want to deselect the "post thrice" option ;o)
    >
    > H1K
    >
    >

    Yes, apologies all :-O
    Steve Welsh, Aug 14, 2005
    #14
  15. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    Hairy One Kenobi wrote:

    > to,


    Honestly, I do not use IE (or Windows) do to the high security concerns with
    both. I do a lot of online banking (both personal and business). I have
    never had a problem.

    Although I am sure that, Microsoft is the driving force behind this. They
    can not compete so they are trying to force incompatibilities. Damn I
    really despise that company. MS moto "If you can't compete, cheat".
    Imhotep, Aug 14, 2005
    #15
  16. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    Management wrote:

    > Jim Watt wrote:
    >
    >> Many electronic banking packages are restricted to IE because
    >> of its security features.
    >> --
    >> Jim Watt
    >> http://www.gibnet.com

    >
    > Now that just is not true, it comes down being lazy and cheap. In
    > fact at least one US government security agency has advised people
    > to use 'alternative browsers', meaning Firefox, Opera, etc.
    >
    > My wife & I have a number of US & UK bank accounts between us that
    > are very happy to accept accept Firefox. Not forgetting Amazon,
    > eBay, paypal and every site that I've bought from.
    >
    > With IE's position being gradually eaten away we will see all sites
    > having be able to deal with Firefox, etc.
    >
    > Quite simply a sensible website designer will design his/her site to
    > be compliant with web standards - that is not use any IE specific
    > coding (no ActiveX) and not use Frontpage to create it. That way the
    > designer can be sure that the site will render correctly in all
    > graphical browsers.
    >
    >
    > Charlie.
    >
    >
    > PS: this is my last response to you Jim lad as it seems to me that
    > you just like to argue blindly. Hope the sun is shining on you in
    > Gibraltar :)
    >
    >
    >


    That is very true. I worked for the DOE for a while and we "highly
    recommended" NOT using IE...

    Im
    Imhotep, Aug 14, 2005
    #16
  17. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    Imhotep wrote:

    > I am not sure if this affects anyone but, I thought I would post it. I
    > think it is BS to restrict access to a Gov agency. Definitely worth a law
    > suit if they do this as it is restricting my access to a governmental
    > agency.
    >
    > http://lwn.net/Articles/147197/
    >
    > Im


    There have been some good comments. However, the point is that the US gov
    (any gov) should not block access to it's resources by using proprietary
    technology. If you have an opinion on this please send your comments to the
    link in the article. Ignoring the comic relief from Jim Watt, This is a
    very serious issue for everyone....

    Im
    Imhotep, Aug 14, 2005
    #17
  18. Imhotep

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:33:28 GMT, Imhotep <> wrote:

    >Micheal Robert Zium wrote:
    >
    >> Jim Watt wrote:
    >>
    >>>Many electronic banking packages are restricted to IE because
    >>>of its security features.

    >>
    >> Thanks for the comedy. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.
    >> I'd be very interested to read anything that would shed some light on
    >> that statement. Anything to back it up.

    >
    >The guy is an idiot.


    So you keep saying, but you have a fixation..

    again the statistics tell a different story

    Heres some figures based on the last weeks activity on
    my website which gets 1000+ unique visitors per day from
    all over: I do not have shares in Microsoft.

    I believe the current firefox reports as Netscape 6
    yes it popular, at about 10% of IE

    Browser % of Total Visitors
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    1 Internet Explorer 6.x 75.46%
    2 Netscape 6.x 8.49%
    3 Internet Explorer 5. 4.78%
    4 Netscape 4.x 3.01%
    5 Others 2.00%

    'Others' even includes people using IE4 ...
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Aug 14, 2005
    #18
  19. Imhotep

    Management Guest

    Hairy One Kenobi wrote:
    <SNIP>
    >
    > I'd love a cite on that one (preferably not from an evangalist). My company
    > codes cross-platform, so it's something that would be useful to me
    > personally in discussions (all large customers - aside from a Nutscrape 4.7
    > French car maker - are 100% IE outside of the IT department)



    H1K,

    Here it is, from USCERT
    http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/713878


    <QUOTE>
    Use a different web browser

    There are a number of significant vulnerabilities in technologies
    related to the IE domain/zone security model, trust in and access to
    the local file system (Local Machine Zone), the Dynamic HTML (DHTML)
    document object model (in particular, proprietary DHTML features),
    the HTML Help system, MIME type determination, the graphical user
    interface (GUI), and ActiveX. These technologies are implemented as
    operating system components that are used by IE and many other
    programs to provide web browser functionality. These components are
    integrated into Windows to such an extent that vulnerabilities in IE
    frequently provide an attacker significant access to the operating
    system.

    It is possible to reduce exposure to these vulnerabilities by using
    a different web browser, especially when viewing untrusted HTML
    documents (e.g., web sites, HTML email messages). Such a decision
    may, however, reduce the functionality of sites that require
    IE-specific features such as proprietary DHTML, VBScript, and
    ActiveX. Note that using a different web browser will not remove IE
    from a Windows system, and other programs may invoke IE, the
    WebBrowser ActiveX control (WebOC), or the HTML rendering engine
    (MSHTML).

    <UNQUOTE>

    <SNIP>
    Latest vulnerabilities here:
    http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/alerts/SA05-221A.html
    These are covered by the latest batch of patches from MS.

    > The only site that I access with ActiveX is Windows Update, and things that
    > require plug-ins such as Flash or PDF (same damn technology under the
    > covers, no matter how you dress it up).


    Me too :)

    <SNIP>


    Charlie.

    --
    Broadcasting to the environs
    www.radiowymsey.org
    Management, Aug 14, 2005
    #19
  20. Hairy One Kenobi wrote:

    >"Micheal Robert Zium" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Jim Watt wrote:
    >>
    >> >Many electronic banking packages are restricted to IE because
    >> >of its security features.

    >>
    >> Thanks for the comedy. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.
    >> I'd be very interested to read anything that would shed some light on
    >> that statement. Anything to back it up.

    >
    >RBS/Natwest currently mandate IE. FirstDirect (Midland, now HSBC) used to,
    >when I was with them. A friend with Barclays was unable to access e-banking
    >with Firefox, but I'm not sure of their official policy. I think that
    >Commerzbank recently kludged to allow it.
    >
    >A quick search reveals that Commerce Bank & Trust in the US (never heard of
    >'em) do officially support Firefox. As do Berliner Bank and Sparkasse
    >Pforzheim in Germany, and HVB Bank in the Czech Republic (although only on
    >Windows). Feel free to go beyond the first 100 Google hits...


    I never questioned that the idiots at some banks may require their
    customers to use IE, I was referring to the laughable claim of IE's
    superior security features.
    Micheal Robert Zium, Aug 14, 2005
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Spiz
    Replies:
    12
    Views:
    6,548
  2. Will Dockery

    Re: OT: Graphic poetry begins (pre-hotspot, pre-poetry)

    Will Dockery, May 31, 2005, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    356
    Will Dockery
    Jun 1, 2005
  3. Will Dockery

    OT: Graphic poetry begins (pre-hotspot, pre-poetry)

    Will Dockery, Jun 1, 2005, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    373
    Citizen_Cain
    Jun 1, 2005
  4. Giuen
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    865
    Giuen
    Sep 12, 2008
  5. 8ball meme
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    1,881
    8ball meme
    Nov 18, 2010
Loading...

Share This Page