Um, ok...ballot, or joke?

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Mara, Jul 30, 2007.

  1. Mara

    Mara Guest

    So there's a mail-in county ballot coming up. I got the thing in the mail the
    other day and just opened it. Now I'm confused, and deeply suspicious.

    The ballot instructions clearly state "Do not place any marks on the ballot
    which would in any way identify the ballot." That's straight from the
    instructions right beside me.

    But then you are instructed to sign the ballot and put your resident address
    there - and not only is my voter registration number on the envelope address,
    but it's also hand-written on the ballot itself.

    I don't like this.

    --
    I understand that Google are going to release a beta version of Google
    Fuckwit shortly. Google Fuckwit will be used alongside Google Groups
    to parse the maunderings of their moron posters into passable English.
    --Dave, nanae
     
    Mara, Jul 30, 2007
    #1
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  2. Mara wrote:
    > So there's a mail-in county ballot coming up. I got the thing in the mail the
    > other day and just opened it. Now I'm confused, and deeply suspicious.
    >
    > The ballot instructions clearly state "Do not place any marks on the ballot
    > which would in any way identify the ballot." That's straight from the
    > instructions right beside me.
    >
    > But then you are instructed to sign the ballot and put your resident address
    > there - and not only is my voter registration number on the envelope address,
    > but it's also hand-written on the ballot itself.
    >
    > I don't like this.


    You must be in good standing with the party in power or you'd never
    received your ballot.
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=, Jul 30, 2007
    #2
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  3. Mara

    Old Gringo Guest

    On Or About Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:24:38 -0500, Without Any Hesitation
    Or Thinking Twice, Mara Stumbled Over To The Keyboard And wrote The
    Following In The 24hoursupport.helpdesk News Group:

    > So there's a mail-in county ballot coming up. I got the thing in the mail the
    > other day and just opened it. Now I'm confused, and deeply suspicious.
    >
    > The ballot instructions clearly state "Do not place any marks on the ballot
    > which would in any way identify the ballot." That's straight from the
    > instructions right beside me.
    >
    > But then you are instructed to sign the ballot and put your resident address
    > there - and not only is my voter registration number on the envelope address,
    > but it's also hand-written on the ballot itself.
    >
    > I don't like this.


    If your registration number is written on the ballot, then the ballot
    is no longer secret. Must be a scam. Be careful, good luck.
    --
    Just West Of Nowhere
    Enjoy Life And Live It To Its Fullest
    http://www.NuBoy-Industries.Com
    7/29/2007 8:36:11 PM CST
     
    Old Gringo, Jul 30, 2007
    #3
  4. "Mara" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > So there's a mail-in county ballot coming up. I got the thing in the mail
    > the
    > other day and just opened it. Now I'm confused, and deeply suspicious.
    >
    > The ballot instructions clearly state "Do not place any marks on the
    > ballot
    > which would in any way identify the ballot." That's straight from the
    > instructions right beside me.
    >
    > But then you are instructed to sign the ballot and put your resident
    > address
    > there - and not only is my voter registration number on the envelope
    > address,
    > but it's also hand-written on the ballot itself.
    >
    > I don't like this.



    Mara,

    You didn't mention where you are or anything specific, and this is not
    exactly where I would start to get information about a local ballot, but
    here's my take on your situation. I am going on the assumption that you are
    in the United States (where I am) (part of the reason I emphasized that you
    gave no information about the procedure). Here, the only time you get a
    mail-in ballot would be if you registered as absentee. In other words, if
    you are not able to go to a voting place on the day of the election, you may
    get what is called an absentee ballot either in person or in the mail. But
    YOU would have to apply for it. Anyone sending you unsolicited stuff in the
    mail would not be a valid ballot. You say that you are concerned that your
    voter registration is already filled in. To me, this is a mark towards it's
    legitimacy. Who else but the county board of elections would have that
    information? Why else besides balloting would anyone want it? Again
    though, there is no such thing as a mail-in ballot in the United States.
    Constitutional issues dictate that you must (unless you yourself make other
    arrangements like absentee) come and cast your own vote.

    Now, if you are somewhere other than the United States, let us know where
    and maybe someone with knowledge of your country's voting can help you out.
    I would also suggest looking to see if there is a website for the county or
    local board of elections where you can get specific information. Also,
    maybe there is a telephone number to reach them.

    --
    Brian J. Whiting

     
    Brian Whiting, Jul 30, 2007
    #4
  5. Mara

    Mara Guest

    On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 21:06:36 -0400, Rôgêr <> wrote:

    >Mara wrote:
    >> So there's a mail-in county ballot coming up. I got the thing in the mail the
    >> other day and just opened it. Now I'm confused, and deeply suspicious.
    >>
    >> The ballot instructions clearly state "Do not place any marks on the ballot
    >> which would in any way identify the ballot." That's straight from the
    >> instructions right beside me.
    >>
    >> But then you are instructed to sign the ballot and put your resident address
    >> there - and not only is my voter registration number on the envelope address,
    >> but it's also hand-written on the ballot itself.
    >>
    >> I don't like this.

    >
    >You must be in good standing with the party in power or you'd never
    >received your ballot.


    I didn't want to receive this one, but as a county taxpayer they had to send it.
    I'm already involved in this a WHOLE lot more than I ever wanted to be. I don't
    think it's anyone's business how I vote - and I *know* this place. What possible
    reason could there be to hand-write your number on the ballot itself, unless you
    were trying to keep track of who voted which way?

    This bothers me. A lot.

    --
    Og thought there was such thing as "evolution". How all these stupid
    people still alive? Og boggle.
    --Caveman Og, nanae, 5/11/2000
     
    Mara, Jul 30, 2007
    #5
  6. Mara

    Leythos Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > What possible
    > reason could there be to hand-write your number on the ballot itself, unless you
    > were trying to keep track of who voted which way?


    Maybe to prevent voter fraud?

    I've gone in to vote a couple times over the years and my name was
    already crossed off the list - and they have always required some form
    of ID (not photo)... had to argue with them that I had not already
    voted.

    --
    Leythos - (remove 999 to email me)

    Learn more about PCBUTTS1 and his antics and ethic and his perversion
    with Porn and Filth. Just take a look at some of the FILTH he's created
    and put on his website: http://www.webservertalk.com/message1907860.html
    3rd link shows what he's exposed to children (the link I've include does
    not directly display his filth). You can find the same information by
    googling for 'PCBUTTS1' and 'exposed to kids'.
     
    Leythos, Jul 30, 2007
    #6
  7. Mara

    Mitch Guest

    In article <>, Mara
    <> wrote:

    > So there's a mail-in county ballot coming up. I got the thing in the mail the
    > other day and just opened it. Now I'm confused, and deeply suspicious.
    >
    > The ballot instructions clearly state "Do not place any marks on the ballot
    > which would in any way identify the ballot." That's straight from the
    > instructions right beside me.
    >
    > But then you are instructed to sign the ballot and put your resident address
    > there - and not only is my voter registration number on the envelope address,
    > but it's also hand-written on the ballot itself.
    >
    > I don't like this.


    But you have always placed great faith in the idea of a secret ballot.
    You've never had any reason to assume it was always separate.

    In this case, they are almost certainly keeping the ballot votes
    separate from the verification that you can vote and have only sent in
    one ballot.
    The reason for the signature is likely that (for legal reasons) you
    have to actually sign the instrument itself. I hope someone could
    change that to signing the envelope instead, but who knows how much
    effort is put into that.

    I'll add my own criticism, though; paper ballots are serialized.
    Therefore, anything that relates the approval of a voter with a
    specific ballot fails the secrecy test.
     
    Mitch, Jul 30, 2007
    #7
  8. Mara

    Mara Guest

    On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:44:51 -1000, Mitch <> wrote:

    >In article <>, Mara
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >> So there's a mail-in county ballot coming up. I got the thing in the mail the
    >> other day and just opened it. Now I'm confused, and deeply suspicious.
    >>
    >> The ballot instructions clearly state "Do not place any marks on the ballot
    >> which would in any way identify the ballot." That's straight from the
    >> instructions right beside me.
    >>
    >> But then you are instructed to sign the ballot and put your resident address
    >> there - and not only is my voter registration number on the envelope address,
    >> but it's also hand-written on the ballot itself.
    >>
    >> I don't like this.

    >
    >But you have always placed great faith in the idea of a secret ballot.
    >You've never had any reason to assume it was always separate.


    It *should* be a secret ballot, because the issue is an "us against them" thing
    and is highly volatile here.

    >In this case, they are almost certainly keeping the ballot votes
    >separate from the verification that you can vote and have only sent in
    >one ballot.


    But they already know that. They sent out the ballots, after all, and know that
    every tax paying resident in the county gets one. Since they know where they
    sent them, and a forgery would be easily spotted in this case, there is no
    reason for the number to be hand-written on the actual ballot.

    >The reason for the signature is likely that (for legal reasons) you
    >have to actually sign the instrument itself. I hope someone could
    >change that to signing the envelope instead, but who knows how much
    >effort is put into that.


    None. I'm betting it won't be two days after the ballot is officially counted
    that it's all over town who voted for and against, and then we'll be right back
    into this stupid, childish "us against them" crap that the rest of the world
    outgrew about 100 years or so ago. I have steadfastly refused to be dragged into
    this stupidity ever since I came here, even though everyone I've talked to has
    tried their hardest to do just that. It seems to me that this vote will force
    the issue, and it's one that I do not want to encourage.

    >I'll add my own criticism, though; paper ballots are serialized.
    >Therefore, anything that relates the approval of a voter with a
    >specific ballot fails the secrecy test.


    This is a small town. there is no such thing as secrecy here.

    Or reality, either, which is the biggest part of the problem.

    --
    Og thought there was such thing as "evolution". How all these stupid
    people still alive? Og boggle.
    --Caveman Og, nanae, 5/11/2000
     
    Mara, Jul 30, 2007
    #8
  9. Leythos wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >> What possible
    >> reason could there be to hand-write your number on the ballot itself, unless you
    >> were trying to keep track of who voted which way?

    >
    > Maybe to prevent voter fraud?
    >
    > I've gone in to vote a couple times over the years and my name was
    > already crossed off the list - and they have always required some form
    > of ID (not photo)... had to argue with them that I had not already
    > voted.


    Vote early, vote often.
     
    =?ISO-8859-15?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=, Jul 30, 2007
    #9
  10. Mara wrote:

    > This is a small town. there is no such thing as secrecy here.
    >
    > Or reality, either, which is the biggest part of the problem.


    Small town here too. On a similar but different note, a couple of weeks
    ago I looked out the window to see the garbage men picking up my trash.
    Instead of tossing it into the back of the truck to be compacted, they
    put it into the *cab* of the truck. Now I know what was going on, there
    were quite a few aluminum cans in that particular bag and they were
    going to sell the aluminum. Okay, not a problem as far as that goes. But
    I don't like the idea of having people going through my trash, with them
    knowing full well where it came from and whose it was.
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=, Jul 30, 2007
    #10
  11. "Mara" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > [snip]
    >>In this case, they are almost certainly keeping the ballot votes
    >>separate from the verification that you can vote and have only sent in
    >>one ballot.

    >
    > But they already know that. They sent out the ballots, after all, and know
    > that
    > every tax paying resident in the county gets one. Since they know where
    > they
    > sent them, and a forgery would be easily spotted in this case, there is no
    > reason for the number to be hand-written on the actual ballot.


    Confining the balloting to tax paying resident is a very outdated idea of
    democracy. What country are you voting in? That is the first question that
    needs to be answered if you are to get assistance that would be meaningful.
    Remember, this is an international community with vastly different ideas of
    voting and vastly different government ideologies.

    >>The reason for the signature is likely that (for legal reasons) you
    >>have to actually sign the instrument itself. I hope someone could
    >>change that to signing the envelope instead, but who knows how much
    >>effort is put into that.

    >
    > None. I'm betting it won't be two days after the ballot is officially
    > counted
    > that it's all over town who voted for and against, and then we'll be right
    > back
    > into this stupid, childish "us against them" crap that the rest of the
    > world
    > outgrew about 100 years or so ago. I have steadfastly refused to be
    > dragged into
    > this stupidity ever since I came here, even though everyone I've talked to
    > has
    > tried their hardest to do just that. It seems to me that this vote will
    > force
    > the issue, and it's one that I do not want to encourage.


    The world, unfortunately, hasn't outgrown any such philosophy. There is
    still legalized slavery and murder. Again I emplore you to specify where
    (in a general fashion such as country name, not county or city name) you are
    asking about.

    >>I'll add my own criticism, though; paper ballots are serialized.
    >>Therefore, anything that relates the approval of a voter with a
    >>specific ballot fails the secrecy test.

    >
    > This is a small town. there is no such thing as secrecy here.
    >
    > Or reality, either, which is the biggest part of the problem.


    Perhaps that IS the problem indeed. But seriously, the size of the town
    would not have any bearing on whether there was a secret ballot or not.

    --
    Brian J. Whiting

     
    Brian Whiting, Jul 30, 2007
    #11
  12. Brian Whiting wrote:

    > What country are you voting in?
    > Again I emplore you to specify where


    Wafts of turnips.
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=, Jul 30, 2007
    #12
  13. "Rôgêr" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Brian Whiting wrote:
    >
    >> What country are you voting in?
    >> Again I emplore you to specify where

    >
    > Wafts of turnips.


    You shouldn't be using a bad translation program when you post. Each
    country has different ideas about what an election means. You could say in
    the United States, we have different ideas about a free election depending
    on who the President is at the time. Seriously, you can't give advice about
    election practices without knowing what country runs the election.

    Next time, pay attention to more than a few words in a post. Be careful or
    you can begin to sound idiotic.

    --
    Brian J. Whiting

     
    Brian Whiting, Jul 30, 2007
    #13
  14. Brian Whiting wrote:

    > Next time, pay attention to more than a few words in a post. Be careful or
    > you can begin to sound idiotic.


    I'm sure you're quite familiar with that.
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=, Jul 30, 2007
    #14
  15. Mara

    Mitch Guest

    In article <>, Mara
    <> wrote:

    > >But you have always placed great faith in the idea of a secret ballot.
    > >You've never had any reason to assume it was always separate.

    >
    > It *should* be a secret ballot, because the issue is an "us against them"
    > thing
    > and is highly volatile here.

    Not us against them, but of prejudice and bias against opinions.
    There usually isn't just 1 'us' and 1 'them.'

    > >In this case, they are almost certainly keeping the ballot votes
    > >separate from the verification that you can vote and have only sent in
    > >one ballot.

    >
    > But they already know that. They sent out the ballots, after all, and know
    > that every tax paying resident in the county gets one.
    > Since they know where they
    > sent them, and a forgery would be easily spotted in this case, there is no
    > reason for the number to be hand-written on the actual ballot.

    It seems you aren't responding to what I wrote.

    > >The reason for the signature is likely that (for legal reasons) you
    > >have to actually sign the instrument itself. I hope someone could
    > >change that to signing the envelope instead, but who knows how much
    > >effort is put into that.

    >
    > None.

    Well, that's a quick and cynical judgment. I was talking about
    legislative and supervisory effort; something you couldn't even know
    about unless you are inside either the legislature or Registrar's
    offices.

    > I'm betting it won't be two days after the ballot is officially counted
    > that it's all over town who voted for and against, and then we'll be right
    > back
    > into this stupid, childish "us against them" crap that the rest of the world
    > outgrew about 100 years or so ago. I have steadfastly refused to be dragged
    > into
    > this stupidity ever since I came here, even though everyone I've talked to has
    > tried their hardest to do just that. It seems to me that this vote will force
    > the issue, and it's one that I do not want to encourage.

    This vote? Dragged into this? Are you talking about a specific issue?
    If so, I don't think you've made it clear at all.
    It seemed you were just talking about the (far more important) secret
    ballot concept.

    > This is a small town. there is no such thing as secrecy here.

    But that's an entirely different reason from the balloting method. If
    people talk about their votes, then a secret ballot is immaterial,
    right?
     
    Mitch, Jul 30, 2007
    #15
  16. Mitch wrote:

    > This is a small town. there is no such thing as secrecy here.
    > But that's an entirely different reason from the balloting method. If
    > people talk about their votes, then a secret ballot is immaterial,
    > right?


    No, it's never immaterial. Even if you talk about it, you have the right
    to vote your conscience on the day of election. And there shouldn't be
    anyone breathing down your neck when you vote.
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=, Jul 30, 2007
    #16
  17. "Rôgêr" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Mitch wrote:
    >
    >> This is a small town. there is no such thing as secrecy here.
    >> But that's an entirely different reason from the balloting method. If
    >> people talk about their votes, then a secret ballot is immaterial,
    >> right?

    >
    > No, it's never immaterial. Even if you talk about it, you have the right
    > to vote your conscience on the day of election. And there shouldn't be
    > anyone breathing down your neck when you vote.


    It's a very valid claim you make in a utopian world. However, there are
    places that outlaw positions, political parties, etc. and they do have
    every legal right in their system to be "breathing down your neck when you
    vote".

    --
    Brian J. Whiting

     
    Brian Whiting, Jul 30, 2007
    #17
  18. Mara

    Mitch Guest

    In article <>, Rôgêr
    <> wrote:

    > Mitch wrote:
    >
    > > This is a small town. there is no such thing as secrecy here.
    > > But that's an entirely different reason from the balloting method. If
    > > people talk about their votes, then a secret ballot is immaterial,
    > > right?

    >
    > No, it's never immaterial. Even if you talk about it, you have the right
    > to vote your conscience on the day of election. And there shouldn't be
    > anyone breathing down your neck when you vote.

    But whether or not you talk about how you voted is a separate issue
    from whether someone is 'breathing down your neck' or whether you
    'vote your conscience.'

    To put it another way:
    If you vote, and then talk about how you voted, and that information
    travels all around town because it's a small town, then you aren't
    talking about a problem with whether the voting process is secret.
    You're talking about whether or not voters keep it secret.

    If the handling of ballots allows your vote to be kept secret, then the
    size of your town means nothing.
     
    Mitch, Jul 30, 2007
    #18
  19. Mara

    Mara Guest

    On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:14:02 -0400, Rôgêr <> wrote:

    >Mitch wrote:
    >
    >> This is a small town. there is no such thing as secrecy here.
    >> But that's an entirely different reason from the balloting method. If
    >> people talk about their votes, then a secret ballot is immaterial,
    >> right?

    >
    >No, it's never immaterial. Even if you talk about it, you have the right
    >to vote your conscience on the day of election. And there shouldn't be
    >anyone breathing down your neck when you vote.


    Exactly so. If your name, address, and VR number is on the envelope you use to
    send the ballot in, there's no need whatsoever to have your VR number
    hand-written on the ballot itself - unless someone wants to snoop.

    I've asked a few other people at work this morning if their ballots were marked
    too. It will be interesting to see the results. I'm also wondering if maybe I
    shouldn't ask the state AG about this. This thing just stinks.

    Another thing that amazes me is that you understood exactly what I was talking
    about when no one else that I saw did. Was I unclear, or are people trying to
    make this into something it isn't?

    --
    Og thought there was such thing as "evolution". How all these stupid
    people still alive? Og boggle.
    --Caveman Og, nanae, 5/11/2000
     
    Mara, Jul 30, 2007
    #19
  20. Mara wrote:
    > On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:14:02 -0400, Rôgêr <> wrote:
    >
    >> Mitch wrote:
    >>
    >>> This is a small town. there is no such thing as secrecy here.
    >>> But that's an entirely different reason from the balloting method. If
    >>> people talk about their votes, then a secret ballot is immaterial,
    >>> right?

    >> No, it's never immaterial. Even if you talk about it, you have the right
    >> to vote your conscience on the day of election. And there shouldn't be
    >> anyone breathing down your neck when you vote.

    >
    > Exactly so. If your name, address, and VR number is on the envelope you use to
    > send the ballot in, there's no need whatsoever to have your VR number
    > hand-written on the ballot itself - unless someone wants to snoop.
    >
    > I've asked a few other people at work this morning if their ballots were marked
    > too. It will be interesting to see the results. I'm also wondering if maybe I
    > shouldn't ask the state AG about this. This thing just stinks.
    >
    > Another thing that amazes me is that you understood exactly what I was talking
    > about when no one else that I saw did. Was I unclear, or are people trying to
    > make this into something it isn't?


    No, I just have moments of lucidity. No telling when they'll happen.
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=, Jul 30, 2007
    #20
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