uk gets it

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by bill, Jul 21, 2003.

  1. bill

    bill Guest

    LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Oftel said Monday it has ordered BT to cut
    wholesale unmetered Internet access charges.

    Prices for unmetered Internet access for consumers should come down as
    a result, the telecoms regulator said.

    http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030721/0245000459_1.html
    bill, Jul 21, 2003
    #1
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  2. I was their recently. 25 pound for unlimited full speed ADSL.

    They got it good already!

    - Al

    "bill" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Oftel said Monday it has ordered BT to cut
    > wholesale unmetered Internet access charges.
    >
    > Prices for unmetered Internet access for consumers should come down as
    > a result, the telecoms regulator said.
    >
    > http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030721/0245000459_1.html
    Al & Cay Grant, Jul 21, 2003
    #2
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  3. bill

    Steve Guest

    Al & Cay Grant allegedly said:

    > I was their recently. 25 pound for unlimited full speed ADSL.
    >
    > They got it good already!
    >
    > - Al


    A fibre link to Europe is 70kms long in 30-50 metres of water for 60m
    people.

    Our fibre links are 2,000 to 10,000 kms long in up to 7,000 metres of
    water...for 4m people.

    Of course ours is more expensive.

    --
    Steve
    Steve, Jul 21, 2003
    #3
  4. bill

    mdew Guest

    On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:40:08 +1200, Steve wrote:

    > Gary allegedly said:
    >
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:06:13 +1200, bill <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Oftel said Monday it has ordered BT to cut
    >>>wholesale unmetered Internet access charges.
    >>>
    >>>Prices for unmetered Internet access for consumers should come down as
    >>>a result, the telecoms regulator said.
    >>>
    >>>http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030721/0245000459_1.html

    >>
    >> I had some friends here from the UK recently, and they couldn't believe
    >> how badly we have got it here. I am expanding my business into the UK
    >> soon, and lack of good and cheap broadband in NZ is one of the main
    >> reasons.

    >
    > We're 4 million people thousands of Ks from anywhere. We're lucky we
    > even have broadband.
    >
    > Mind you...I live in the Wellington region and have several broadband
    > suppliers to choose from.


    so you can justify broadband prices because of this? The broadband prices
    in NZ are artificially inflated by a certain telco, this "Distance" thing
    is nonsense, a poor excuse. By your definition broadband prices will stay
    like this for a long time (a few million years of continental shift, NZ isnt
    moving any closer). The problem, has *always* been telecom, you can't put
    the geographic spin on it as an excuse for extreme broadband prices.
    mdew, Jul 21, 2003
    #4
  5. "mdew" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:40:08 +1200, Steve wrote:
    >
    > > Gary allegedly said:
    > >
    > >
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:06:13 +1200, bill <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Oftel said Monday it has ordered BT to cut
    > >>>wholesale unmetered Internet access charges.
    > >>>
    > >>>Prices for unmetered Internet access for consumers should come down as
    > >>>a result, the telecoms regulator said.
    > >>>
    > >>>http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030721/0245000459_1.html
    > >>
    > >> I had some friends here from the UK recently, and they couldn't believe
    > >> how badly we have got it here. I am expanding my business into the UK
    > >> soon, and lack of good and cheap broadband in NZ is one of the main
    > >> reasons.

    > >
    > > We're 4 million people thousands of Ks from anywhere. We're lucky we
    > > even have broadband.
    > >
    > > Mind you...I live in the Wellington region and have several broadband
    > > suppliers to choose from.

    >
    > so you can justify broadband prices because of this? The broadband prices
    > in NZ are artificially inflated by a certain telco, this "Distance" thing
    > is nonsense, a poor excuse. By your definition broadband prices will stay
    > like this for a long time (a few million years of continental shift, NZ

    isnt
    > moving any closer). The problem, has *always* been telecom, you can't put
    > the geographic spin on it as an excuse for extreme broadband prices.
    >


    Why not? Our Southern Cross cable is still costing us.

    Cheers,
    Nicholas Sherlock
    Nicholas Sherlock, Jul 21, 2003
    #5
  6. bill

    T.N.O. Guest

    Reply is inline.
    mdew wrote
    > > We're 4 million people thousands of Ks from anywhere. We're lucky we
    > > even have broadband.
    > >

    > so you can justify broadband prices because of this?


    It is fairly likely that this is the cause.

    > The broadband prices
    > in NZ are artificially inflated by a certain telco, this "Distance" thing
    > is nonsense, a poor excuse.


    If you can do it cheaper, go for it.

    > By your definition broadband prices will stay
    > like this for a long time (a few million years of continental shift, NZ isnt
    > moving any closer).


    As Kiwis start using more bandwidth economies of scale will kick in,
    also prices do generally go down over time.

    > The problem, has *always* been telecom, you can't put
    > the geographic spin on it as an excuse for extreme broadband prices.


    I don't argue that Telecom isn't a factor, but surely you must see
    that taking information over a long piece of cable must cost them
    something... if only to recover the costs of said cable.
    T.N.O., Jul 22, 2003
    #6
  7. bill

    Brett Cooper Guest

    On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:40:08 +1200, Steve <> wrote:

    >Gary allegedly said:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:06:13 +1200, bill <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Oftel said Monday it has ordered BT to cut
    >>>wholesale unmetered Internet access charges.
    >>>
    >>>Prices for unmetered Internet access for consumers should come down as
    >>>a result, the telecoms regulator said.
    >>>
    >>>http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030721/0245000459_1.html

    >>
    >> I had some friends here from the UK recently, and they couldn't
    >> believe how badly we have got it here. I am expanding my business into
    >> the UK soon, and lack of good and cheap broadband in NZ is one of the
    >> main reasons.

    >
    >We're 4 million people thousands of Ks from anywhere.
    >We're lucky we even have broadband.
    >
    >Mind you...I live in the Wellington region and have several broadband
    >suppliers to choose from.


    Being only 4 million it's alot easyer for us all find a space in the band.
    Brett
    Brett Cooper, Jul 22, 2003
    #7
  8. On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:43:07 +1200, Steve wrote:

    > A fibre link to Europe is 70kms long in 30-50 metres of water for 60m
    > people.
    >
    > Our fibre links are 2,000 to 10,000 kms long in up to 7,000 metres of
    > water...for 4m people.
    >
    > Of course ours is more expensive.


    As I keep saying, this would be true if it wasn't for the factoid of
    bandwidth being more than twice as expensive to ship from Auckland to
    Wellington as it is to get it from Los Angeles to Auckland in the first
    place.

    Net access in the UK is cheap because the dominant telco is forced to
    charge reasonable prices to ISPs to connect. It's a loss-making
    proposition for most ISPs to provide jetstart, but it's a marjeting
    disaster not to.

    Dialup ISPs in the UK and NL (The countries I looked into) are able to
    provide nationwide dialup at a caller cost of NZ2-3c/min and _still_ get a
    cut from the telco for terminating the calls. Compare that with the 0873
    version, where the telco charges minimum $2000/month + 1c/min to the ISP
    and you start seeing why ISPs keep falling over.
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Jul 22, 2003
    #8
  9. bill

    Steve Guest

    mdew allegedly said:

    >> We're 4 million people thousands of Ks from anywhere. We're lucky we
    >> even have broadband.
    >>
    >> Mind you...I live in the Wellington region and have several broadband
    >> suppliers to choose from.

    >
    > so you can justify broadband prices because of this?


    Yeah - in past. Unit cost per person. It is absolutely CERTAIN that the cost
    of the Southern Cross cable must be spread over far fewer heads in NZ and
    AU than a (MUCH shorter) similar cable in the US, Europe - or between the
    two.

    North America and Europe have a combined population of 800-900M
    people....yet the distance between them is half that of NZ to North America
    or Asia.

    Simply dividing the cost of laying the cable by the number of heads says we
    will pay more.

    I do agree that DOMESTIC traffic should be cheaper. On many broadband
    services it is 10% of International traffic - if not free.

    > The broadband prices
    > in NZ are artificially inflated by a certain telco, this "Distance" thing
    > is nonsense, a poor excuse. By your definition broadband prices will stay
    > like this for a long time (a few million years of continental shift, NZ
    > isnt moving any closer). The problem, has always been telecom, you can't
    > put the geographic spin on it as an excuse for extreme broadband prices.


    There is a better reason. If Telecom were to do what you say, they would end
    up 10th the size they are today.

    Who is going to invest in that? Are you going to sell your house for 1/10th
    of what you paid for it?

    I don't think so. You would try to add value and service instead. Another
    reason we have epxensive service is that Telecom - when it was sold - was
    left with the domestic network. That should NEVER have been done. It would
    cost 10 times what Telecom was sold for to replace that network - even as
    it was then.

    So becasue no one can build an equivalent network, there is little in the
    way of competition...and prices remain higher.

    All of these are relevant. There is no ONE reason why we pay waht we do. But
    certainly all these reasons are a product of where we live.

    Far away and in small numbers.

    --
    Steve
    --
    "Naturally, the common people don't want war;
    neither in Russia nor in England nor in America,
    nor for that matter in Germany.
    That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders
    of the country who determine the policy and
    it is always a simple matter to drag the people
    along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist
    dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist
    dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can
    always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
    That is easy. All you have to do is tell them
    they are being attacked and denounce the
    pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing
    the country to danger. It works the same way
    in any country."
    - Hermann Goering, Nazi Reichsmarshall
    Steve, Jul 23, 2003
    #9
  10. bill

    Steve Guest

    T.N.O. allegedly said:

    >
    > I don't argue that Telecom isn't a factor, but surely you must see
    > that taking information over a long piece of cable must cost them
    > something... if only to recover the costs of said cable.


    They did recover the costs a couple oif years ago. They did it within 18
    months of the lights going on.

    Now it is only maintenance...and spare cpacity to meet growth. If they sell
    the whole thing out for a song, they have no future capacity....and no cash
    to build the next one when required if they priced it so low they didn't
    include both profit and the NEXT cable (plus maintenance).

    --
    Steve
    Steve, Jul 23, 2003
    #10
  11. On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:28:56 +1200, Enkidu wrote:

    > I too have had some dealings in the UK. I'm surprised that you say
    > that NZ have it worse than the UK. The UK has, essentially, one
    > monopoly supplier.


    There's some unbundled local loop there. NZ has NONE.

    > If you need broadband anywhere away from a major
    > centre, you just can't get it.


    You can, if you're willing to pay(*). At last resort there's bidirectional
    satellite, which isn't cheap, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper than NZ.

    > The poor guy was having to put in
    > multiple ISDN lines, because there was *nothing* else available. No
    > cable, no ADSL, no wireless. His options were dial-up modem, ISDN or
    > an expensive leased line.


    If he's in that situatiom there are at least 4 different telcos he can
    talk to. Telewest specialise in that kind of thing for starters.

    (*) Like Radio links, a la the new BCL stuff, but the Internet side of
    that is still far cheaper than NZ.
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Jul 25, 2003
    #11
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