TV on x64

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by mikedepetris@gmail.com, Dec 29, 2005.

  1. Guest

    I've always used a TV-card in my PC, but this ended when I installed XP
    x64.
    I was waiting to buy a new card x64 compatible, but then I had this
    idea:

    what about useing VirtualPC or VMware workstation to run a second 32
    bit OS to install all those drivers I can't use on the host x64 system?

    An usb TV adapter should be ok, as my HP all in one network printer and
    other usb devices.

    Is this true, will it work, is it worth? Will an usbTV work good enough?
     
    , Dec 29, 2005
    #1
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  2. Dennis Pack Guest

    I use the Leadtek Winfast TV2000 XP Expert TV card with ShowShifter for TV
    viewing and capture. The drivers are available at "planetamd64.com".


    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I've always used a TV-card in my PC, but this ended when I installed XP
    > x64.
    > I was waiting to buy a new card x64 compatible, but then I had this
    > idea:
    >
    > what about useing VirtualPC or VMware workstation to run a second 32
    > bit OS to install all those drivers I can't use on the host x64 system?
    >
    > An usb TV adapter should be ok, as my HP all in one network printer and
    > other usb devices.
    >
    > Is this true, will it work, is it worth? Will an usbTV work good enough?
    >
     
    Dennis Pack, Dec 29, 2005
    #2
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  3. Virtual PC does run on x64. Virtual Server R2 does, but neither supports
    cards. The OS installed in VPC VSR2, or VMware runs in a virtual
    environment and you cannot install drivers there for use in the host OS.

    --
    Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I've always used a TV-card in my PC, but this ended when I installed XP
    > x64.
    > I was waiting to buy a new card x64 compatible, but then I had this
    > idea:
    >
    > what about useing VirtualPC or VMware workstation to run a second 32
    > bit OS to install all those drivers I can't use on the host x64 system?
    >
    > An usb TV adapter should be ok, as my HP all in one network printer and
    > other usb devices.
    >
    > Is this true, will it work, is it worth? Will an usbTV work good enough?
    >
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Dec 29, 2005
    #3
  4. Guest

    I ask myself why do you write false statements.

    Virtual machines with 32bit XP can normally install printer drivers and
    usb devices drivers, I was only asking about performance of an usbTV
    adapter.
     
    , Dec 29, 2005
    #4
  5. You cannot use VPC or any other virtual machine manager to install drivers
    for cards that are used on the host. If you had a Gateway and a Dell
    computer sitting side by side, could you install a driver on the Dell for a
    card in the Gateway? Think about virtual computers the same way.

    --
    Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I ask myself why do you write false statements.
    >
    > Virtual machines with 32bit XP can normally install printer drivers and
    > usb devices drivers, I was only asking about performance of an usbTV
    > adapter.
    >
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Dec 29, 2005
    #5
  6. John Barnes Guest

    You have been around long enough to realise that some posters here have no
    logic gene, and no matter how hard you try, they will never follow a logical
    argument or they trail off with another well meaning poster that also hasn't
    a clue. :)

    "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > You cannot use VPC or any other virtual machine manager to install drivers
    > for cards that are used on the host. If you had a Gateway and a Dell
    > computer sitting side by side, could you install a driver on the Dell for
    > a card in the Gateway? Think about virtual computers the same way.
    >
    > --
    > Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    > (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>I ask myself why do you write false statements.
    >>
    >> Virtual machines with 32bit XP can normally install printer drivers and
    >> usb devices drivers, I was only asking about performance of an usbTV
    >> adapter.
    >>

    >
    >
     
    John Barnes, Dec 29, 2005
    #6
  7. Guest

    now I understand you simply do not read.

    USB devices are installed by the guest OS if it is in the foreground.

    Networkprinters drivers... no problem.

    better now?
     
    , Dec 29, 2005
    #7
  8. :)

    --
    Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > You have been around long enough to realise that some posters here have no
    > logic gene, and no matter how hard you try, they will never follow a
    > logical argument or they trail off with another well meaning poster that
    > also hasn't a clue. :)
    >
    > "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> You cannot use VPC or any other virtual machine manager to install
    >> drivers for cards that are used on the host. If you had a Gateway and a
    >> Dell computer sitting side by side, could you install a driver on the
    >> Dell for a card in the Gateway? Think about virtual computers the same
    >> way.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    >> (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    >> <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>>I ask myself why do you write false statements.
    >>>
    >>> Virtual machines with 32bit XP can normally install printer drivers and
    >>> usb devices drivers, I was only asking about performance of an usbTV
    >>> adapter.
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Dec 29, 2005
    #8
  9. Dave Huang Guest

    In article <>,
    Colin Barnhorst <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote:
    >You cannot use VPC or any other virtual machine manager to install drivers
    >for cards that are used on the host. If you had a Gateway and a Dell
    >computer sitting side by side, could you install a driver on the Dell for a
    >card in the Gateway? Think about virtual computers the same way.


    Most people don't refer to USB devices as "cards". I don't use VPC,
    but VMWare definitely supports installing drivers in the guest OS
    for USB devices connected to the physical computer. A driver in
    the host OS is not required.

    See http://www.vmware.com/support/ws45/doc/devices_usb_ws.html (no
    USB isochronous support in VMWare Workstation 4.5, so TV capture
    devices won't work), and
    http://www.vmware.com/support/ws55/doc/ws_devices_usb.html
    (experimental support in 5.5 for USB isochronous devices... TV capture
    devices might work; give it a try!)

    mikedepetris is correct. And while you may arguably also be correct,
    depending on how you define "card," your statement is completely
    irrelevant to the current discussion.
    --
    Name: Dave Huang | Mammal, mammal / their names are called /
    INet: | they raise a paw / the bat, the cat /
    FurryMUCK: Dahan | dolphin and dog / koala bear and hog -- TMBG
    Dahan: Hani G Y+C 30 Y++ L+++ W- C++ T++ A+ E+ S++ V++ F- Q+++ P+ B+ PA+ PL++
     
    Dave Huang, Dec 29, 2005
    #9
  10. But they are only installed on the guest OS. (VPC and Virtual Server do not
    support usb, by the way, but I understand you are thinking of VMWare in this
    case.)

    A program like VPC or VMWare cannot be used to install a 32-bit driver in a
    host computer running a 64-bit OS (or any OS for that matter).

    I am telling you that no matter what you install on a guest OS, that item is
    not also installed on the host. A guest is like Las Vegas; what happens
    there stays there.

    The problem seems to be is that you don't understand the relationship
    between host and guest operating systems. That is OK. Lot's of folks
    don't. Think of them as two separate computers even though they live in the
    same physical box.

    I understand that you are looking for a tool that will force a 32-bit driver
    for a TV card to work on an x64 system. I am telling you that
    virtualization programs are not that tool.

    32-bit drivers do not work on x64 by design. It is not a bug. It will not
    "get fixed." There are no workarounds.

    Hope this helps.

    --
    Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > now I understand you simply do not read.
    >
    > USB devices are installed by the guest OS if it is in the foreground.
    >
    > Networkprinters drivers... no problem.
    >
    > better now?
    >
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Dec 29, 2005
    #10
  11. Guest

    you are great :)
     
    , Dec 29, 2005
    #11
  12. Dave Huang Guest

    In article <##>,
    Colin Barnhorst <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote:
    >The problem seems to be is that you don't understand the relationship
    >between host and guest operating systems. That is OK. Lot's of folks
    >don't. Think of them as two separate computers even though they live in the
    >same physical box.


    Stop being such a condescending ass. I'm sure he understands the
    relationship just fine. You're the one who's putting words into
    his mouth in order to then say that he's wrong. He never mentioned
    wanting to get the drivers installed in the host OS. He just wants
    to know how well a USB TV capture device would work in a guest OS.

    To summarize for you and get back on topic: will the performance
    of a USB TV capture device running in a VMWare guest OS be acceptable?
    I personally don't know, but I've played AVIs in a VMWare guest,
    and the performance of that seemed just fine to me, so I'd think
    that side of it would be OK.
    --
    Name: Dave Huang | Mammal, mammal / their names are called /
    INet: | they raise a paw / the bat, the cat /
    FurryMUCK: Dahan | dolphin and dog / koala bear and hog -- TMBG
    Dahan: Hani G Y+C 30 Y++ L+++ W- C++ T++ A+ E+ S++ V++ F- Q+++ P+ B+ PA+ PL++
     
    Dave Huang, Dec 29, 2005
    #12
  13. Guest

    I tested printer drivers and they were all ok.

    I never tested an USB tv adapter so I even do not know how good are
    they on a real pc, but I guess they are good enough even in a virtual
    machine as I have good experiences with their performances.

    again: you are great
     
    , Dec 29, 2005
    #13
  14. You're right. It happened.

    --
    Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    "John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > You have been around long enough to realise that some posters here have no
    > logic gene, and no matter how hard you try, they will never follow a
    > logical argument or they trail off with another well meaning poster that
    > also hasn't a clue. :)
    >
    > "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> You cannot use VPC or any other virtual machine manager to install
    >> drivers for cards that are used on the host. If you had a Gateway and a
    >> Dell computer sitting side by side, could you install a driver on the
    >> Dell for a card in the Gateway? Think about virtual computers the same
    >> way.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    >> (Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
    >> <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>>I ask myself why do you write false statements.
    >>>
    >>> Virtual machines with 32bit XP can normally install printer drivers and
    >>> usb devices drivers, I was only asking about performance of an usbTV
    >>> adapter.
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Dec 29, 2005
    #14
  15. Davy H Guest

    You didn't mention what type of TV Card you had before.
    Very recently there has been a working 64bit driver released for the
    Connexant BT878 which is the a very common chipset for internal TV
    Cards.
    See this link for more info:
    http://www.planetamd64.com/index.php?showtopic=13012&st=0
     
    Davy H, Dec 29, 2005
    #15
  16. Dave Huang Guest

    In article <uN#>,
    Colin Barnhorst <colinbarharst(remove)@msn.com> wrote:
    >You're right. It happened.
    >--
    >Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
    >(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)


    >"John Barnes" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> You have been around long enough to realise that some posters here have no
    >> logic gene, and no matter how hard you try, they will never follow a
    >> logical argument or they trail off with another well meaning poster that
    >> also hasn't a clue. :)


    Lets have a quick clue status review, shall we?

    The original message that started this thread:
    I've always used a TV-card in my PC, but this ended when I
    installed XP x64.
    I was waiting to buy a new card x64 compatible, but then I had
    this idea:

    what about useing VirtualPC or VMware workstation to run a second
    32 bit OS to install all those drivers I can't use on the host
    x64 system?

    An usb TV adapter should be ok, as my HP all in one network
    printer and other usb devices.

    Your reply:
    Virtual PC does run on x64. Virtual Server R2 does, but neither
    supports cards. The OS installed in VPC VSR2, or VMware runs in a
    virtual environment and you cannot install drivers there for use in
    the host OS.

    First of all, Virtual PC does _not_ run on Windows x64, but we'll chalk
    that up to a typo, seeing that the context shows that you probably did
    know that VPC doesn't run on x64. But your comment that "you cannot
    install drivers there for use in the host OS" is irrelevant, since
    mikedepetris never said he wanted to install drivers in the guest OS for
    use in the host. I don't think he's a native English speaker, but a
    reasonably intelligent person would realize that he meant that he wants
    to "install all those drivers" in the "second 32 bit OS." I.e., the
    guest OS, not the host OS. He currently has a PCI TV card, and obviously
    knows that he can't install the driver for it in the guest OS, since he
    specifically mentioned using a USB TV adapter in the guest.

    He clarifies that he "... was only asking about performance of an usbTV
    adapter," but you're still on the same irrelevant track about "You
    cannot use VPC or any other virtual machine manager to install drivers
    for cards that are used on the host." You later mention, "I understand
    that you are looking for a tool that will force a 32-bit driver for a TV
    card to work on an x64 system." Where did you get that "understanding"?
    mikedepetris never mentioned anything like that at all. His question is
    specifically whether a USB TV tuner will work "good enough" under a
    virtual machine running a 32-bit OS that does have tuner drivers.

    Reading comprehension? YOU FAIL IT!

    P.S. If, as other _helpful_ people have mentioned, 64-bit drivers are
    now available for PCI TV tuners, I'd go with that rather than a USB
    tuner running in a VM. While I suspect the latter will work fine, it
    seems awfully kludgy.
    --
    Name: Dave Huang | Mammal, mammal / their names are called /
    INet: | they raise a paw / the bat, the cat /
    FurryMUCK: Dahan | dolphin and dog / koala bear and hog -- TMBG
    Dahan: Hani G Y+C 30 Y++ L+++ W- C++ T++ A+ E+ S++ V++ F- Q+++ P+ B+ PA+ PL++
     
    Dave Huang, Dec 29, 2005
    #16
  17. VirtualPC does not run on x64 and does not support USB anyway.

    You might be able to use VMWare.

    Officially, VMWare provides only USB1 and a TV device needs USB2 bandwidth
    but I think the actual USB bandwidth provided by VMWare may be adequate. I
    haven't heard of anyone who has tested VMWare with TV devices.

    But what card were you using?
    There are third party applications and unofficial and official beta drivers
    and it may be that your existing card can be persuaded to work with x64.


    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I've always used a TV-card in my PC, but this ended when I installed XP
    > x64.
    > I was waiting to buy a new card x64 compatible, but then I had this
    > idea:
    >
    > what about useing VirtualPC or VMware workstation to run a second 32
    > bit OS to install all those drivers I can't use on the host x64 system?
    >
    > An usb TV adapter should be ok, as my HP all in one network printer and
    > other usb devices.
    >
    > Is this true, will it work, is it worth? Will an usbTV work good enough?
    >
     
    Dominic Payer, Dec 30, 2005
    #17
  18. Guest

    Hauppauge WinTV

    I had an AIMS labs VideoHighway Xtreme before

    will have a look at the link thank you.
     
    , Dec 30, 2005
    #18
  19. The K!TV beta should work with the Hauppauge WinTV and any other card with a
    BT8x8 chip.
    See http://beta.kastortv.org/?version=hello


    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hauppauge WinTV
    >
    > I had an AIMS labs VideoHighway Xtreme before
    >
    > will have a look at the link thank you.
    >
     
    Dominic Payer, Dec 30, 2005
    #19
  20. On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:07:42 -0000,
    <> wrote:

    > I've always used a TV-card in my PC, but this ended when I installed XP
    > x64.
    > I was waiting to buy a new card x64 compatible, but then I had this
    > idea:
    >
    > what about useing VirtualPC or VMware workstation to run a second 32
    > bit OS to install all those drivers I can't use on the host x64 system?
    >
    > An usb TV adapter should be ok, as my HP all in one network printer and
    > other usb devices.
    >
    > Is this true, will it work, is it worth? Will an usbTV work good enough?
    >



    Have you tried K!TV? There is a X64 beta version, and it has it's own
    drivers. It works a treat with my PCTV card.

    http://beta.kastortv.org/download/K!TV2.4Beta2x64-13062005.zip
     
    Mark Gillespie, Dec 30, 2005
    #20
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