Trying to generalize "Sunny 16"

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Paul Ciszek, Jul 22, 2011.

  1. Paul Ciszek

    Paul Ciszek Guest

    My camera won't go anywhere near f/16. So I am trying to generalize
    the rule. Do I have it right?

    Shutter time = (f-number/16)^2 / ISO


    --
    "Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
    crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
    TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
    bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."
    Paul Ciszek, Jul 22, 2011
    #1
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  2. Paul Ciszek

    Paul Ciszek Guest

    In article <2011072119444610672-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >On 2011-07-21 19:23:04 -0700, (Paul Ciszek) said:
    >
    >> My camera won't go anywhere near f/16. So I am trying to generalize
    >> the rule. Do I have it right?
    >>
    >> Shutter time = (f-number/16)^2 / ISO

    >
    >You are using a camera which has RAW capability and should have along
    >with all the various scene modes, a P mode, a shutter priority mode,
    >aperture priority mode, and manual mode (check your manual). So there
    >should be no reason you would not be able to adjust aperture to f/16 if
    >you are shooting in Aperture priority, or manual mode.


    In Aperture or Manual mode, the f number only goes as high as 8 according
    to the manual. (It's a Lumix FZ35, not a DSLR.)

    >Since you are addressing the "Sunny 16 Rule" you are implying that you
    >are shooting in manual mode.
    >
    >< http://guidetofilmphotography.com/sunny-16-exposure.html >


    I need to generalize it to other f numbers. That table has only one f
    number for each lighting condition, and some of them are f numbers I
    don't have.

    --
    "Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
    crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
    TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
    bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."
    Paul Ciszek, Jul 22, 2011
    #2
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  3. Paul Ciszek

    nospam Guest

    In article <j0ap1o$svk$>, Paul Ciszek
    <> wrote:

    > >> My camera won't go anywhere near f/16. So I am trying to generalize
    > >> the rule. Do I have it right?
    > >>
    > >> Shutter time = (f-number/16)^2 / ISO

    > >
    > >You are using a camera which has RAW capability and should have along
    > >with all the various scene modes, a P mode, a shutter priority mode,
    > >aperture priority mode, and manual mode (check your manual). So there
    > >should be no reason you would not be able to adjust aperture to f/16 if
    > >you are shooting in Aperture priority, or manual mode.

    >
    > In Aperture or Manual mode, the f number only goes as high as 8 according
    > to the manual. (It's a Lumix FZ35, not a DSLR.)


    the sunny 16 rule is on a sunny day, you want f/16 and 1/iso speed. if
    you're using iso 100, that would be f/16 @ 1/100th. if you were using
    iso 400, it would be f/16 @ 1/400th.

    if you can only go to f/8, use a shutter speed that's two stops faster
    (since f/8 is 2 stops slower than f/16).

    in other words, at iso 100 you would normally want f/16 @ 1/100th, and
    that's equivalent to f/11 @ 1/200th, f/8 @ 1/400th, f/5.6 @ 1/800th,
    etc.

    it's also a rule of thumb and not always ideal. with digital, you can
    check to see what the best exposure really is on the lcd.
    nospam, Jul 22, 2011
    #3
  4. Paul Ciszek

    RichA Guest

    On Jul 21, 10:44 pm, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
    wrote:
    > On 2011-07-21 19:23:04 -0700, (Paul Ciszek) said:
    >
    > > My camera won't go anywhere near f/16.  So I am trying to generalize
    > > the rule.  Do I have it right?

    >
    > > Shutter time = (f-number/16)^2 / ISO

    >
    > You are using a camera which has RAW capability and should have along
    > with all the various scene modes, a P mode, a shutter priority mode,
    > aperture priority mode, and manual mode (check your manual). So there
    > should be no reason you would not be able to adjust aperture to f/16 if
    > you are shooting in Aperture priority, or manual mode.
    >
    > Since you are addressing the "Sunny 16 Rule" you are implying that you
    > are shooting in manual mode.
    >



    Any Nikon used with a non-AF lens that doesn't support them. D100,
    D50, D70, D70s, D40, D40x, D60, D3000, D3100. Don't know if I missed
    any.
    Great thing about digital is that even without a meter, it takes about
    10 seconds and a test exposure or two to get it right.
    RichA, Jul 22, 2011
    #4
  5. Paul Ciszek

    Paul Ciszek Guest

    In article <2011072120272125485-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >
    >The question which comes to mind given your not too flexible camera, is
    >why are you concerned with the "Sunny 16" rule when your camera should
    >be able to function within its narrow parameters in good light?
    >or perhaps, why is it you need to shoot in manual in good light with
    >that camera?


    See the lunar photography thread. My camera is smart, but not quite
    smart enough to handle *all* circumstances.

    >At this point I would suggest leaving the exposure calculations to your
    >camera. If you are determined to use the full range of manual
    >adjustments photographers would expect to have available, consider
    >buying a camera which will permit that.


    I believe the restriction on f-numbers is more of a size thing. The
    Lumix FZ35 is not a 35mm camer, but it does have a full manual mode.

    --
    "Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
    crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
    TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
    bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."
    Paul Ciszek, Jul 22, 2011
    #5
  6. Paul Ciszek

    PeterN Guest

    On 7/22/2011 9:12 AM, RichA wrote:
    > On Jul 21, 10:44 pm, Savageduck<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
    > wrote:
    >> On 2011-07-21 19:23:04 -0700, (Paul Ciszek) said:
    >>
    >>> My camera won't go anywhere near f/16. So I am trying to generalize
    >>> the rule. Do I have it right?

    >>
    >>> Shutter time = (f-number/16)^2 / ISO

    >>
    >> You are using a camera which has RAW capability and should have along
    >> with all the various scene modes, a P mode, a shutter priority mode,
    >> aperture priority mode, and manual mode (check your manual). So there
    >> should be no reason you would not be able to adjust aperture to f/16 if
    >> you are shooting in Aperture priority, or manual mode.
    >>
    >> Since you are addressing the "Sunny 16 Rule" you are implying that you
    >> are shooting in manual mode.
    >>

    >
    >
    > Any Nikon used with a non-AF lens that doesn't support them. D100,
    > D50, D70, D70s, D40, D40x, D60, D3000, D3100. Don't know if I missed
    > any.
    > Great thing about digital is that even without a meter, it takes about
    > 10 seconds and a test exposure or two to get it right.




    My D200 & D300 both support them with non-autofocus lenses.

    --
    Peter
    PeterN, Jul 22, 2011
    #6
  7. Paul Ciszek

    RichA Guest

    On Jul 22, 11:24 am, PeterN <> wrote:
    > On 7/22/2011 9:12 AM, RichA wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Jul 21, 10:44 pm, Savageduck<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
    > > wrote:
    > >> On 2011-07-21 19:23:04 -0700, (Paul Ciszek) said:

    >
    > >>> My camera won't go anywhere near f/16.  So I am trying to generalize
    > >>> the rule.  Do I have it right?

    >
    > >>> Shutter time = (f-number/16)^2 / ISO

    >
    > >> You are using a camera which has RAW capability and should have along
    > >> with all the various scene modes, a P mode, a shutter priority mode,
    > >> aperture priority mode, and manual mode (check your manual). So there
    > >> should be no reason you would not be able to adjust aperture to f/16 if
    > >> you are shooting in Aperture priority, or manual mode.

    >
    > >> Since you are addressing the "Sunny 16 Rule" you are implying that you
    > >> are shooting in manual mode.

    >
    > > Any Nikon used with a non-AF lens that doesn't support them.  D100,
    > > D50, D70, D70s, D40, D40x, D60, D3000, D3100. Don't know if I missed
    > > any.
    > > Great thing about digital is that even without a meter, it takes about
    > > 10 seconds and a test exposure or two to get it right.

    >
    > My D200 & D300 both support them with non-autofocus lenses.
    >
    > --
    > Peter


    Yes, the semi-pro models do and the new D7000 as well as the pro
    models.
    You can even designate the old lenses in the camera, which is nice.
    RichA, Jul 23, 2011
    #7
  8. Paul Ciszek

    RichA Guest

    On Jul 22, 10:07 am, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
    wrote:
    > On 2011-07-22 06:59:33 -0700, (Paul Ciszek) said:
    >
    >
    >
    > > In article <2011072120272125485-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    > > Savageduck  <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    >
    > >> The question which comes to mind given your not too flexible camera, is
    > >> why are you concerned with the "Sunny 16" rule when your camera should
    > >> be able to function within its narrow parameters in good light?
    > >> or perhaps, why is it you need to shoot in manual in good light with
    > >> that camera?

    >
    > > See the lunar photography thread.  My camera is smart, but not quite
    > > smart enough to handle *all* circumstances.

    >
    > Then you have the wrong camera for the job. There comes a time when one
    > size does not fit all.
    >
    >
    >
    > >> At this point I would suggest leaving the exposure calculations to your
    > >> camera. If you are determined to use the full range of manual
    > >> adjustments photographers would expect to have available, consider
    > >> buying a camera which will permit that.

    >
    > > I believe the restriction on f-numbers is more of a size thing.  The
    > > Lumix FZ35 is not a 35mm camer, but it does have a full manual mode.

    >
    > ...and as has been stated elsewhere in this thread, it is the size of
    > the sensor which is the limiting factor in your camera's ability to
    > stop down. I have the same limitation with my G11, but not with my
    > D300s.
    > --
    > Regards,
    >
    > Savageduck


    There isn't even any point in stopping down below f5.6 because you end
    up with nearly infinite DOF, except for macros.
    RichA, Jul 23, 2011
    #8
  9. Paul Ciszek

    Paul Ciszek Guest

    In article <2011072207070116708-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >On 2011-07-22 06:59:33 -0700, (Paul Ciszek) said:
    >
    >>
    >> In article <2011072120272125485-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    >> Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> The question which comes to mind given your not too flexible camera, is
    >>> why are you concerned with the "Sunny 16" rule when your camera should
    >>> be able to function within its narrow parameters in good light?
    >>> or perhaps, why is it you need to shoot in manual in good light with
    >>> that camera?

    >>
    >> See the lunar photography thread. My camera is smart, but not quite
    >> smart enough to handle *all* circumstances.

    >
    >Then you have the wrong camera for the job. There comes a time when one
    >size does not fit all.


    Huh? I *have* to have a camera that is smart enough to handle all
    circumstances? What's wrong with a camera that is smart enough to handle
    most day-to-day circumstances, but can be overridden when you want to do
    something weird?

    >...and as has been stated elsewhere in this thread, it is the size of
    >the sensor which is the limiting factor in your camera's ability to
    >stop down. I have the same limitation with my G11, but not with my
    >D300s.


    And someday I shall graduate to a micro 4/3. But not in time for the
    next full moon.

    --
    "Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
    crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
    TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
    bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."
    Paul Ciszek, Jul 24, 2011
    #9
  10. Alfred Molon <> wrote:
    > In article <2011072119444610672-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>, Savageduck
    > says...


    >> You are using a camera which has RAW capability and should have along
    >> with all the various scene modes, a P mode, a shutter priority mode,
    >> aperture priority mode, and manual mode (check your manual). So there
    >> should be no reason you would not be able to adjust aperture to f/16 if
    >> you are shooting in Aperture priority, or manual mode.


    > F16 is not such a good idea anyway with a camera with small pixels due
    > to diffraction issues.


    > But if I were Paul I would simply let the camera do the metering, or
    > have a look at the histogram and meter with that.


    Which rather notoriously don't work very well when photographing the
    moon.

    --
    Chris Malcolm
    Chris Malcolm, Jul 26, 2011
    #10
  11. <> wrote:

    > Why are you using SUNNY 16 if you are photographing the Moon?


    Yep! You are right! Unlike sunlight on earth (which comes from
    the sun), the moon is lit by itself. No sun doing anything.

    -Wolfgang
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Aug 8, 2011
    #11
  12. Michael <> wrote:
    > On 2011-08-08 16:47:44 -0400, Wolfgang Weisselberg said:
    >> <> wrote:


    >>> Why are you using SUNNY 16 if you are photographing the Moon?


    >> Yep! You are right! Unlike sunlight on earth (which comes from
    >> the sun), the moon is lit by itself. No sun doing anything.


    > Just what internal source of light does the moon use to light itself?
    > It is lit by the sun. We see it by reflected light.


    Here's a nickel, your sarcasm-meter needs tuning.

    -Wolfgang
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Aug 9, 2011
    #12
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