Troll control - check headers

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Alan Browne, Aug 7, 2003.

  1. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    Looking at the headers of the recent trollers ("CAMERA EXPERT","UNCLE
    TOM","La Kosher Nostra The Lox Father" and "Sarah Hergen") notice that
    they have IP addresses beginning with 67.31 (as Nick Zentena pointed out).

    If a posting has that "bait" look, don't bite. Check it:

    In your browser, turn the headers on to "All" (or whatever) and look for
    the NTTP-Posting-Host line of each message you believe is a troll.
    (In google, hit the "Original Format" link for the message you are
    looking at....)

    If it has the line:

    NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.31.XX.XX (the XX.XX will be different every
    time the troll logs in)

    It is likely from this troll.

    Copy the entire header and send it to BOTH:

    http://www.level3.com/mail/abuse.html
    ---- this is the service that the troll dials up to post his messages.

    and



    just paste the entire header under your complaint in the box provided.
    The complaint is mainly off-topic postings and cross-postings.

    Most importantly:

    --Do not answer the trolls posting, not even to shout "TROLL!"

    --Drop out of troll initiated threads and sub-threads (the "Cold
    Weather", "JEWS and", "PHOTOGRAPHY TIPS" ... etc.) Just let go.

    --Stop the x-post replies (this is 95% of the troll's jollies in the
    first place).

    Cheers,
    Alan.
     
    Alan Browne, Aug 7, 2003
    #1
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  2. Alan Browne

    Mark Roberts Guest

    Alan Browne <> wrote:

    >Looking at the headers of the recent trollers ("CAMERA EXPERT","UNCLE
    >TOM","La Kosher Nostra The Lox Father" and "Sarah Hergen") notice that
    >they have IP addresses beginning with 67.31 (as Nick Zentena pointed out).
    >
    >If a posting has that "bait" look, don't bite. Check it:
    >
    >In your browser, turn the headers on to "All" (or whatever) and look for
    >the NTTP-Posting-Host line of each message you believe is a troll.
    >(In google, hit the "Original Format" link for the message you are
    >looking at....)
    >
    > If it has the line:
    >
    >NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.31.XX.XX (the XX.XX will be different every
    >time the troll logs in)
    >
    >It is likely from this troll.
    >
    >Copy the entire header and send it to BOTH:
    >
    >http://www.level3.com/mail/abuse.html
    > ---- this is the service that the troll dials up to post his messages.


    Not that you shouldn't send complaints anyway but be aware that they
    aren't going to do any good with Level3.com - they're one of the most
    notorious spamhouses on the net.

    http://www.spamhaus.org/rokso/spamm...t&evidence=Level3.com&-search=Search&-search=

    --
    Mark Roberts
    Photography and writing
    www.robertstech.com
     
    Mark Roberts, Aug 7, 2003
    #2
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  3. Alan Browne

    Paul Heslop Guest

    Mark Roberts wrote:
    >
    > Alan Browne <> wrote:
    >
    > >Looking at the headers of the recent trollers ("CAMERA EXPERT","UNCLE
    > >TOM","La Kosher Nostra The Lox Father" and "Sarah Hergen") notice that
    > >they have IP addresses beginning with 67.31 (as Nick Zentena pointed out).
    > >
    > >If a posting has that "bait" look, don't bite. Check it:
    > >
    > >In your browser, turn the headers on to "All" (or whatever) and look for
    > >the NTTP-Posting-Host line of each message you believe is a troll.
    > >(In google, hit the "Original Format" link for the message you are
    > >looking at....)
    > >
    > > If it has the line:
    > >
    > >NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.31.XX.XX (the XX.XX will be different every
    > >time the troll logs in)
    > >
    > >It is likely from this troll.
    > >
    > >Copy the entire header and send it to BOTH:
    > >
    > >http://www.level3.com/mail/abuse.html
    > > ---- this is the service that the troll dials up to post his messages.

    >
    > Not that you shouldn't send complaints anyway but be aware that they
    > aren't going to do any good with Level3.com - they're one of the most
    > notorious spamhouses on the net.
    >
    > http://www.spamhaus.org/rokso/spamm...t&evidence=Level3.com&-search=Search&-search=
    >
    > --
    > Mark Roberts
    > Photography and writing
    > www.robertstech.com


    Which is why they use them. Basically as well as being trolls they're
    cowards.
    --
    Paul. (I never agreed to be Your holy one)
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Not what it seems...
    http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
     
    Paul Heslop, Aug 7, 2003
    #3
  4. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    Mark Roberts wrote:

    >
    >
    > Not that you shouldn't send complaints anyway but be aware that they
    > aren't going to do any good with Level3.com - they're one of the most
    > notorious spamhouses on the net.
    >
    > http://www.spamhaus.org/rokso/spamm...t&evidence=Level3.com&-search=Search&-search=
    >


    Thanks for the heads up. The trolling has also used google accounts and
    I've sent them messages too ().

    Spamming is one thing; trolling is another (eg: who's making money?) so
    maybe (maybe) they'll do something about this dickweed.

    Cheers,
    Alan.
     
    Alan Browne, Aug 7, 2003
    #4
  5. Alan Browne

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Alan Browne writes:

    > The complaint is mainly off-topic postings and cross-postings.


    That is not abuse. Abuse is something like a denial of service. Your
    complaint will go directly into the wastebasket, where it belongs.

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
     
    Mxsmanic, Aug 7, 2003
    #5
  6. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    Mxsmanic wrote:
    > Alan Browne writes:
    >
    >
    >>The complaint is mainly off-topic postings and cross-postings.

    >
    >
    > That is not abuse. Abuse is something like a denial of service. Your
    > complaint will go directly into the wastebasket, where it belongs.
    >


    Read the policies of Level3 and Google. The nature of the postings in
    question is precisely against their policies. (NG charter, OT
    x-posting, inflamatory language, obscenities, etc.).
     
    Alan Browne, Aug 7, 2003
    #6
  7. Alan Browne

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Alan Browne writes:

    > The trolling has also used google accounts and
    > I've sent them messages too ().


    Fortunately, the bit bucket has plenty of capacity for such complaints.

    > Spamming is one thing; trolling is another (eg: who's
    > making money?) so maybe (maybe) they'll do something
    > about this dickweed.


    Spammers (people who post vast numbers of nearly identical messages to
    vast numbers of newsgroups) can be a legitimate problem. Trolling is
    never a problem. If you don't agree with a poster or a thread, don't
    read it.

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
     
    Mxsmanic, Aug 7, 2003
    #7
  8. Alan Browne

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Alan Browne writes:

    > Read the policies of Level3 and Google. The nature
    > of the postings in question is precisely against
    > their policies.


    They have other fish to fry. Additionally, there's no proof that the
    posts actually came from any particular ISP.

    > NG charter, OT x-posting, inflamatory language, obscenities, etc.


    All a waste of time. If you are that interested in censorship, perhaps
    you should consider moving to Peyton Place instead of USENET.

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
     
    Mxsmanic, Aug 7, 2003
    #8
  9. Alan Browne

    el sid Guest

    The trolls are turning this news group into Peyton Place. Remember the movie
    or the book.
    "Mxsmanic" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Alan Browne writes:
    >
    > > Read the policies of Level3 and Google. The nature
    > > of the postings in question is precisely against
    > > their policies.

    >
    > They have other fish to fry. Additionally, there's no proof that the
    > posts actually came from any particular ISP.
    >
    > > NG charter, OT x-posting, inflamatory language, obscenities, etc.

    >
    > All a waste of time. If you are that interested in censorship, perhaps
    > you should consider moving to Peyton Place instead of USENET.
    >
    > --
    > Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
     
    el sid, Aug 7, 2003
    #9
  10. Alan Browne

    Mxsmanic Guest

    el sid writes:

    > The trolls are turning this news group into Peyton Place. Remember the movie
    > or the book.


    Nothing obligates you to read what trolls write.

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
     
    Mxsmanic, Aug 7, 2003
    #10
  11. Alan Browne

    Mike Guest

    "Mxsmanic" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > el sid writes:
    >
    > > The trolls are turning this news group into Peyton Place. Remember the

    movie
    > > or the book.

    >
    > Nothing obligates you to read what trolls write.
    >
    > --
    > Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.


    Or reply to what they write.
     
    Mike, Aug 7, 2003
    #11
  12. > > The complaint is mainly off-topic postings and cross-postings.
    >
    > That is not abuse. Abuse is something like a denial of service. Your
    > complaint will go directly into the wastebasket, where it belongs.


    Thank you! The only thing worse than spam or troll postings are postings
    from trolls that tell everyone to report another poster to an abuse@
    address. GROW UP!!

    The abuse is when you ABUSE the abuse@ addresses that are for things like
    spam, and people who tell others to report someone to an address they post.
     
    Jon Wordsworth, Aug 7, 2003
    #12
  13. Alan Browne

    Stacey Guest

    Alan Browne wrote:

    >
    >
    > Looking at the headers of the recent trollers ("CAMERA EXPERT","UNCLE
    > TOM","La Kosher Nostra The Lox Father" and "Sarah Hergen") notice that
    > they have IP addresses beginning with 67.31 (as Nick Zentena pointed out).
    >



    So? Some of the dialog in these threads can still be informative. Look at
    the "photo tips" and a few people learned that film does "ripen" and other
    things of that sort. No one is forcing you to read/follow those threads. If
    you don't want to read them, don't.

    --

    Stacey
     
    Stacey, Aug 7, 2003
    #13
  14. Alan Browne wrote:

    > Mxsmanic wrote:
    > > Alan Browne writes:
    > >
    > >
    > >>The complaint is mainly off-topic postings and cross-postings.

    > >
    > >
    > > That is not abuse. Abuse is something like a denial of service. Your
    > > complaint will go directly into the wastebasket, where it belongs.
    > >

    >
    > Read the policies of Level3 and Google. The nature of the postings in
    > question is precisely against their policies. (NG charter, OT
    > x-posting, inflamatory language, obscenities, etc.).


    If I stalk all your posts from now on, I will find many things YOU post that
    are against your provider's policies! It is impossible for someone NOT to
    violate an ISP's policies. Read your own and see how many you violate
    even though you didn't think you were doing anything wrong.

    Cross posting is FINE, that is why the newsreader is set up to ALLOW you to
    post to more than one group at a time. Basically it is when someone wants
    a question posted to several groups to get more of a chance of someone
    answering it. And when you reply, you MUST cross post as you have no idea
    which group the person will be at to read your response.

    Language and obscenities are no big deal, try to think of a movie out that
    doesn't have them. That is the way people talk. To try and pretend on
    radio, tv and newsgroups that we don't talk that way is crazy. Who are
    you trying to fool? Kids? They don't have a problem with it, they use it
    on the school ground every day, don't you remember being a kid? Kids try
    not to use it around adults, adults try not to use it around kids. How
    ridiculous is that? They are just WORDS they don't cause any physical
    hard or damage to use or hear or read them.

    You should be ASHAMED of yourself for abusing the ABUSE@ addresses and
    posting them and telling people to report someone you don't like because of
    what they said. Making statements that YOU don't like is not abuse, but
    telling someone else to report them to an email address you provide IS abuse
    and may be illegal too. I know you could get sued for it. The other poor
    guy is not going to get sued for using profanity, nor is his ISP going to
    cancel his service and not take his monthly payments anymore because YOU
    (NOT their paying customer) told them to not take his money anymore.

    Shame on you, whoever posted the order for people to report someone to an
    abuse@ email address.
     
    Jon Wordsworth, Aug 7, 2003
    #14
  15. Mxsmanic wrote:

    > Alan Browne writes:
    >
    > > Read the policies of Level3 and Google. The nature
    > > of the postings in question is precisely against
    > > their policies.

    >
    > They have other fish to fry. Additionally, there's no proof that the
    > posts actually came from any particular ISP.
    >
    > > NG charter, OT x-posting, inflamatory language, obscenities, etc.

    >
    > All a waste of time. If you are that interested in censorship, perhaps
    > you should consider moving to Peyton Place instead of USENET.


    Strongly agreed. What is it with these people that tell us to report people
    they don't like and don't feel ashamed or embarrassed when they do?

    If the poor guy now gets any false complaints of abuse now, he has the
    evidence of this guy telling people to do it, which he can show to his ISP
    and prove the complaints were due to this individual, and since it is
    permanently archived and available at any time from usenet search engines, he
    could even press charges against this individual if he wanted to. It would
    be nice to make an example of people like this that abuse the abuse reporting
    policy because they didn't like what someone said in a post.

    What do we know about this individual? Does he tell people to report others
    often or is this the first time? If this person has been harassing people
    like this before, and the other poor guy gets a complaint made against him,
    perhaps some of this individual's previous requests for us to report others
    can be found in archives and given to the guy so he can show them to his ISP
    that the complaints are just harassment.
     
    Jon Wordsworth, Aug 7, 2003
    #15
  16. Alan Browne

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Jon Wordsworth writes:

    > What is it with these people that tell us to report people
    > they don't like and don't feel ashamed or embarrassed when
    > they do?


    They wish to censor opinions with which they disagree, but they lack the
    courage to say this explicitly, and hope to convince others that the
    opinions they find unpleasant are somehow objectively undesirable. Of
    course, this is an exercise in futility in most cases that do not
    actually represent denials of service or network overloads.

    > If the poor guy now gets any false complaints of abuse now,
    > he has the evidence of this guy telling people to do it,
    > which he can show to his ISP and prove the complaints were
    > due to this individual, and since it is permanently archived
    > and available at any time from usenet search engines, he
    > could even press charges against this individual if he wanted to.


    True. But most ISPs just ignore such complaints, anyway. After all,
    there are many, many thousands of people on USENET complaining about
    other people on USENET at any given time, so bogus complaints of abuse
    are legion.

    > ... so he can show them to his ISP that the complaints
    > are just harassment.


    A good ISP requires evidence of abuse, not evidence of a lack of abuse.
    Good ISPs easily recognize the whining of the angry young males, too,
    and disregard it.

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
     
    Mxsmanic, Aug 7, 2003
    #16
  17. Alan Browne

    Lionel Guest

    On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:02:41 GMT, in
    <R5sYa.1861864$>, "Matt Clara"
    <> said:

    >"Mxsmanic" <> wrote in message
    >> They have other fish to fry. Additionally, there's no proof that the
    >> posts actually came from any particular ISP.

    >
    >Yes, there is--Alan has already pointed out that all of the poster's IP
    >addresses start with the same set of numbers. Those numbers represent a
    >range all going to something like newyork1 dialup (I can't be more specific
    >as I've kill filed his every incarnation here at work).


    Don't waste your time responding to Maniac's comments on this topic. Not
    only does he not have the faintest idea about ISP policies & practices,
    he's also a fairly active troll himself.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Lionel, Aug 7, 2003
    #17
  18. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    Mxsmanic wrote:
    > Alan Browne writes:
    >
    >
    >>Read the policies of Level3 and Google. The nature
    >>of the postings in question is precisely against
    >>their policies.

    >
    >
    > Additionally, there's no proof that the
    > posts actually came from any particular ISP.
    >


    Look at the headers or the orig. poster(s). They ALL originate at
    67.31.xx.xx which is a dialup in the NYC area (use any traceroute
    website to find out)...they ALL originate at Level3.com. This is common
    to Camera Expert, Uncle Tom, Sarah Hergen, etc. as I've named. All of
    these have begun with inflaming (subtle or otherwise) posts, x-posted to
    4 or 5 groups at at time over unrelated topics.

    Unfortunately everyone has pitched in and fed the flames.

    Alan.
     
    Alan Browne, Aug 7, 2003
    #18
  19. Alan Browne

    Matt Clara Guest

    "Jon Wordsworth" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    plonk
     
    Matt Clara, Aug 7, 2003
    #19
  20. > True. But most ISPs just ignore such complaints, anyway. After all,
    > there are many, many thousands of people on USENET complaining about
    > other people on USENET at any given time, so bogus complaints of abuse
    > are legion.


    This I know for a fact, as a friend of mine actually gets to read the
    complaints that come in to the abuse@ email of the ISP he works for, and very
    few are actually about Spam complaints, as it was originally intended for,
    but MOST are from idiots on newsgroups complaining about a poster that made
    statements they didn't like. Most of them do get deleted for two reasons
    according to him.... One, there are way too many that come in to possible
    read and check out, two, what are they going to do, disconnect service to 75%
    of their paying customers and go out of business?

    Think of it this way... You get mad at a customer that buys lots of cameras
    at a certain store because he takes pictures of things you don't like. So
    you complain to the store not to sell him anymore cameras. You yourself are
    not a customer of that store and they make no money from you. Is the store
    going to turn away the customer's money and listen to the other person?
    Of course not.

    Likewise, a person who is a powerseller on Ebay and is spending thousands of
    dollars to Ebay to put up dozens of auctions everyday is not going to
    reprimand them when a bidder who Ebay makes no money from, complains about
    the Seller. You can see sellers with HUNDREDS of negative comments, yet
    Ebay will not do anything to them because money is worth more than morals to
    companies.

    Telling an ISP to please not accept a certain poster's monthly check because
    you don't like what they post on newsgroups and don't know how to just stop
    reading what you don't like, is not going to do anything but make you look
    like an ass.

    Plus, if the ISP was to send some sort of "reprimand" warning to the
    customer, he might get pissed off and switch to another ISP that has better
    things to do then listen to everyone that whines on newsgroups about what you
    post. That would not be good business, and the customer is always right if
    you want to stay in business.

    Any company or ISP that sends warning letters to it's paying customers is not
    going to be in business very long.

    True, none of these complaints ever get acknowledged, but it is the fact that
    there are people that not only complain to ISPs about other people's
    newsgroup posts, but that they go so far as to tell other people to do it
    too. It is that disgusting activity of these "people" that is so outraging.

    Like a kid who doesn't like another kid telling all the other kids they
    shouldn't play with him anymore. Or tell other kids to go tell that poor
    kid's parents that he used a bad word so that the kid might get punished
    because he made the other kid look stupid in front of the other kids.

    > > ... so he can show them to his ISP that the complaints
    > > are just harassment.

    >
    > A good ISP requires evidence of abuse, not evidence of a lack of abuse.
    > Good ISPs easily recognize the whining of the angry young males, too,
    > and disregard it.


    My friend use to sometimes just do usenet searches on the complainer. If he
    found posts from the complainer telling people to complain about other
    people, he just deleted the complaint. Now he doesn't even bother with
    anything that is not related to Spamming. THAT is what the abuse@ emails
    are for. They are not to complain that the other debater proved your
    statements were false in front of everyone else on the newsgroup so you can
    try to make that person go away!
     
    Jon Wordsworth, Aug 7, 2003
    #20
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