TradeMe strangeness

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by JD, Aug 6, 2003.

  1. JD

    JD Guest

    I was bidding on an item and found myself up against an auto-bidder in
    the last few minutes of the auction. The item was well past reserve.I
    kept going over about ten bids, each time being immediately outbid
    until I gave up. Then, bugger me, I get an email from TradeMe within
    minutes, telling me that the item is now on offer for three days at
    the last bid price.

    There was not even time for the seller to determine that he had a dud
    top bidder, so I am wondering whether his plan was to use a mate on
    auto-bid to push the under-buyer to top dollar, then the mate moves
    away, as it was always known he was going to, and the under-buyer is
    hopefully scooped up at best possible price.

    Am I being paranoid, or could there be another explanation for this?

    JD
    JD, Aug 6, 2003
    #1
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  2. JD

    Dave Guest

    Hi JD do you have an auction number?

    Ardz


    "JD" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I was bidding on an item and found myself up against an auto-bidder in
    > the last few minutes of the auction. The item was well past reserve.I
    > kept going over about ten bids, each time being immediately outbid
    > until I gave up. Then, bugger me, I get an email from TradeMe within
    > minutes, telling me that the item is now on offer for three days at
    > the last bid price.
    >
    > There was not even time for the seller to determine that he had a dud
    > top bidder, so I am wondering whether his plan was to use a mate on
    > auto-bid to push the under-buyer to top dollar, then the mate moves
    > away, as it was always known he was going to, and the under-buyer is
    > hopefully scooped up at best possible price.
    >
    > Am I being paranoid, or could there be another explanation for this?
    >
    > JD
    Dave, Aug 6, 2003
    #2
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  3. "Dogg" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:26:15 +1200, JD <> wrote:
    >
    > >I was bidding on an item and found myself up against an auto-bidder in
    > >the last few minutes of the auction. The item was well past reserve.I
    > >kept going over about ten bids, each time being immediately outbid
    > >until I gave up. Then, bugger me, I get an email from TradeMe within
    > >minutes, telling me that the item is now on offer for three days at
    > >the last bid price.
    > >
    > >There was not even time for the seller to determine that he had a dud
    > >top bidder, so I am wondering whether his plan was to use a mate on
    > >auto-bid to push the under-buyer to top dollar, then the mate moves
    > >away, as it was always known he was going to, and the under-buyer is
    > >hopefully scooped up at best possible price.
    > >
    > >Am I being paranoid, or could there be another explanation for this?
    > >
    > >JD

    >
    > I thought that if someone won the bidding they were then obliged to
    > purchase the item but I suppose it doesn't always work out that
    > way.........kinda sucks ass really.


    Yes, and only after a few days the owner can offer the object again. So the
    story is strange: beyond reserve, immediate offer. Strange.

    --
    Mauricio Freitas
    Handhelds, mobile: http://www.geekzone.co.nz or
    http://www.bluetoothguide.com
    Bluetooth guides: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=449
    Mauricio Freitas, Aug 6, 2003
    #3
  4. JD

    JD Guest

    On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:15:00 +1200, "Mauricio Freitas"
    <> wrote:

    >"JD" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> I was bidding on an item and found myself up against an auto-bidder in
    >> the last few minutes of the auction. The item was well past reserve.I
    >> kept going over about ten bids, each time being immediately outbid
    >> until I gave up. Then, bugger me, I get an email from TradeMe within
    >> minutes, telling me that the item is now on offer for three days at
    >> the last bid price.
    >>
    >> There was not even time for the seller to determine that he had a dud
    >> top bidder, so I am wondering whether his plan was to use a mate on
    >> auto-bid to push the under-buyer to top dollar, then the mate moves
    >> away, as it was always known he was going to, and the under-buyer is
    >> hopefully scooped up at best possible price.
    >>
    >> Am I being paranoid, or could there be another explanation for this?
    >>

    >JD, you say the item was well past reserve. How come it came up on offer
    >then? The highest bid wins, it shouldn't have an offer.


    Yes, that's the strange part. The reserve was $35 - the highest offer
    was $95.

    JD
    JD, Aug 6, 2003
    #4
  5. JD

    Brett Cooper Guest

    It does seem a little bit strange. I would reject the offer and wait for
    the item to be relisted. The seller might also have more than one of these
    items and is offering it to the other bidders. But I think it does look
    fuzzy..

    Brett

    On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:23:00 +1200, "Mauricio Freitas"
    <> wrote:

    >"JD" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:51:16 +1200, "Dave" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >Hi JD do you have an auction number?
    >> >
    >> >Ardz

    >>
    >> Auction 5023166
    >>

    >
    >It might be that someone bids, do not complete the sale, fee is refunded,
    >but the seller gets a lot of names of interested parties, then offer to each
    >one. I don't know, all speculation from my part of course.
    >
    >I think you saw the Trademe comment on this seller:
    >http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/auction_detail_expired.asp?id=3932179
    Brett Cooper, Aug 6, 2003
    #5
  6. JD

    JD Guest

    On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:23:00 +1200, "Mauricio Freitas"
    <> wrote:

    >"JD" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:51:16 +1200, "Dave" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >Hi JD do you have an auction number?
    >> >
    >> >Ardz

    >>
    >> Auction 5023166
    >>

    >
    >It might be that someone bids, do not complete the sale, fee is refunded,
    >but the seller gets a lot of names of interested parties, then offer to each
    >one. I don't know, all speculation from my part of course.


    Good thought, but it was offered to interested parties *4 seconds*
    after it had a winning bid three times the reserve.

    JD
    JD, Aug 6, 2003
    #6
  7. JD

    Howard Guest

    Mauricio Freitas wrote:
    > "JD" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:51:16 +1200, "Dave" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Hi JD do you have an auction number?
    >>>
    >>> Ardz

    >>
    >> Auction 5023166
    >>

    >
    > It might be that someone bids, do not complete the sale, fee is
    > refunded, but the seller gets a lot of names of interested parties,
    > then offer to each one. I don't know, all speculation from my part of
    > course.
    >

    As a TradeMe regular, I would say this is quite unusual, and a vendor &
    bidder in cahoots would be the only explnation I could think of.

    If the winning bidder does not complete the sale, the seller won't know this
    for several days, and TradeMe will give the bidder a final warning procedure
    wich lasts a mminimum of 5 days. Definitely no normal way this can happen
    after only a few seconds. In fact 4 seconds is such a short timeframe on the
    web interface that it would be difficult for a human to achieve such a quick
    turnaround, having to click so any screens, and all.

    Still, my most likely explanation of what has happened is the phatom bidder
    bid you up, and then the seller withdrew the [phantom] lead bidder. A proper
    withdrawal is normally only done on request, in which case the request would
    be visible in the comments section of that auction.

    As and aside, this can also be played against an honest auto bidder. If a
    normal bidder and an (earlier) autobidder bid the same amount for an item,
    the autobidders amount will be displayed. An unscupulous seller can use a
    phantom bidder, bidding at the minimum bid increment, to force the bid up.
    While the autobid has room to go, the phantom bidder's bid is placed at that
    minimum bid increment amount, and the autobidder's bid is recored at the
    next highest minimum bid amount. When the autobid is equalled, the normal
    bidder's bid is not recoreded, and only the autobidder's bid for that amount
    is displayed. The unscrupulous seller has thus identified the maximum the
    autobidder was willing to pay. For this reason when I autobid, I always bid
    with a random odd number of cents as my maximum bid to reduce the likelyhood
    of this problem.

    http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/0002-0359-0205-/auction-5023166.htm
    Howard, Aug 6, 2003
    #7
  8. JD

    ~misfit~ Guest

    "Mauricio Freitas" <> wrote in message
    news:Xi0Ya.9499$...
    > "Dogg" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:26:15 +1200, JD <> wrote:
    > >
    > > >I was bidding on an item and found myself up against an auto-bidder in
    > > >the last few minutes of the auction. The item was well past reserve.I
    > > >kept going over about ten bids, each time being immediately outbid
    > > >until I gave up. Then, bugger me, I get an email from TradeMe within
    > > >minutes, telling me that the item is now on offer for three days at
    > > >the last bid price.
    > > >
    > > >There was not even time for the seller to determine that he had a dud
    > > >top bidder, so I am wondering whether his plan was to use a mate on
    > > >auto-bid to push the under-buyer to top dollar, then the mate moves
    > > >away, as it was always known he was going to, and the under-buyer is
    > > >hopefully scooped up at best possible price.
    > > >
    > > >Am I being paranoid, or could there be another explanation for this?
    > > >
    > > >JD

    > >
    > > I thought that if someone won the bidding they were then obliged to
    > > purchase the item but I suppose it doesn't always work out that
    > > way.........kinda sucks ass really.

    >
    > Yes, and only after a few days the owner can offer the object again. So

    the
    > story is strange: beyond reserve, immediate offer. Strange.


    The seller might have had more than one item?
    --
    ~misfit~



    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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    ~misfit~, Aug 6, 2003
    #8
  9. JD

    ~misfit~ Guest

    "Mauricio Freitas" <> wrote in message
    news:W81Ya.9510$...
    > "JD" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:51:16 +1200, "Dave" <>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > >Hi JD do you have an auction number?
    > > >
    > > >Ardz

    > >
    > > Auction 5023166
    > >

    >
    > It might be that someone bids, do not complete the sale, fee is refunded,
    > but the seller gets a lot of names of interested parties, then offer to

    each
    > one. I don't know, all speculation from my part of course.
    >
    > I think you saw the Trademe comment on this seller:
    > http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/auction_detail_expired.asp?id=3932179


    Also the trader has quite a few similar items up for auction. Looks like an
    importer/dealer?
    --
    ~misfit~



    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.507 / Virus Database: 304 - Release Date: 4/08/2003
    ~misfit~, Aug 6, 2003
    #9
  10. JD

    Gavin Tunney Guest

    On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:26:15 +1200, JD <> wrote:

    >I was bidding on an item and found myself up against an auto-bidder in
    >the last few minutes of the auction. The item was well past reserve.I
    >kept going over about ten bids, each time being immediately outbid
    >until I gave up. Then, bugger me, I get an email from TradeMe within
    >minutes, telling me that the item is now on offer for three days at
    >the last bid price.
    >
    >There was not even time for the seller to determine that he had a dud
    >top bidder, so I am wondering whether his plan was to use a mate on
    >auto-bid to push the under-buyer to top dollar, then the mate moves
    >away, as it was always known he was going to, and the under-buyer is
    >hopefully scooped up at best possible price.
    >
    >Am I being paranoid, or could there be another explanation for this?
    >
    >JD


    It's common practice for dealers on Trademe to offer goods to the next
    highest bidder, especially when the bids get way up there. Usually it
    just means they have more than one of that item, I think but am not
    sure they can also avoid Trademe fees that way. The alacrity with
    which the offer was made suggests the price was way over the top &
    seller was falling over himself to make a few extra dollars. Judging
    by your reaction I'd say he blew it.

    Gavin
    Gavin Tunney, Aug 6, 2003
    #10
  11. JD

    V Guest

    On Trademe, a seller can make offer to other bidder the moment the
    auction is finished.

    If may not be the seller team up with a dud bidder to push up prices,
    it could be he got multiple unit of the same item. So he just want to
    do the bidders a favour?

    Just a guess. What do you think?



    On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:26:15 +1200, JD <> wrote:

    >I was bidding on an item and found myself up against an auto-bidder in
    >the last few minutes of the auction. The item was well past reserve.I
    >kept going over about ten bids, each time being immediately outbid
    >until I gave up. Then, bugger me, I get an email from TradeMe within
    >minutes, telling me that the item is now on offer for three days at
    >the last bid price.
    >
    >There was not even time for the seller to determine that he had a dud
    >top bidder, so I am wondering whether his plan was to use a mate on
    >auto-bid to push the under-buyer to top dollar, then the mate moves
    >away, as it was always known he was going to, and the under-buyer is
    >hopefully scooped up at best possible price.
    >
    >Am I being paranoid, or could there be another explanation for this?
    >
    >JD
    V, Aug 6, 2003
    #11
  12. JD

    Max Guest

    On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 23:20:02 +1200, "~misfit~"
    <misfit@'SPAMTRAP'orcon.net.nz> wrote:

    >
    >"Mauricio Freitas" <> wrote in message
    >news:W81Ya.9510$...
    >> "JD" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:51:16 +1200, "Dave" <>
    >> > wrote:
    >> >
    >> > >Hi JD do you have an auction number?
    >> > >
    >> > >Ardz
    >> >
    >> > Auction 5023166
    >> >

    >>
    >> It might be that someone bids, do not complete the sale, fee is refunded,
    >> but the seller gets a lot of names of interested parties, then offer to

    >each
    >> one. I don't know, all speculation from my part of course.
    >>
    >> I think you saw the Trademe comment on this seller:
    >> http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/auction_detail_expired.asp?id=3932179

    >
    >Also the trader has quite a few similar items up for auction. Looks like an
    >importer/dealer?


    They are possibly illegal (eg they don't have permission from the
    manufacturer to sell in nz). You should probably alert trade me,
    although you could be waiting a while..
    Max, Aug 7, 2003
    #12
  13. JD

    Howard Guest

    Max wrote:

    > They are possibly illegal (eg they don't have permission from the
    > manufacturer to sell in nz). You should probably alert trade me,
    > although you could be waiting a while..


    Huh? Since when do you need 'permission' from a manufactuer to sell goods.

    If you can buy them legally, you can sell them legally. That's the whole
    point of the parrallel import laws.
    Howard, Aug 7, 2003
    #13
  14. JD

    Howard Guest

    Gavin Tunney wrote:

    > It's common practice for dealers on Trademe to offer goods to the next
    > highest bidder, especially when the bids get way up there. Usually it
    > just means they have more than one of that item, I think but am not
    > sure they can also avoid Trademe fees that way. The alacrity with
    > which the offer was made suggests the price was way over the top &
    > seller was falling over himself to make a few extra dollars. Judging
    > by your reaction I'd say he blew it.


    I don't think it's common at all. TradeMe don't offer that ability if the
    auction's highest bid was greater than reserve.
    Howard, Aug 7, 2003
    #14
  15. JD

    Max Guest

    On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:19:32 +1200, "Howard" <>
    wrote:

    >Max wrote:
    >
    >> They are possibly illegal (eg they don't have permission from the
    >> manufacturer to sell in nz). You should probably alert trade me,
    >> although you could be waiting a while..

    >
    >Huh? Since when do you need 'permission' from a manufactuer to sell goods.
    >
    >If you can buy them legally, you can sell them legally. That's the whole
    >point of the parrallel import laws.
    >


    If you import them into NZ, you need a license according to customs.
    These goods may be counterfit. Did you see the Border Control program
    where people were importing nike shoes and watches illegally, and they
    also ended up being counterfit. Not too sure how the parallel import
    rules go, but I know that manufactuers don't like them.
    Max, Aug 7, 2003
    #15
  16. JD

    Gavin Tunney Guest

    On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:21:44 +1200, "Howard" <>
    wrote:

    >Gavin Tunney wrote:
    >
    >> It's common practice for dealers on Trademe to offer goods to the next
    >> highest bidder, especially when the bids get way up there. Usually it
    >> just means they have more than one of that item, I think but am not
    >> sure they can also avoid Trademe fees that way. The alacrity with
    >> which the offer was made suggests the price was way over the top &
    >> seller was falling over himself to make a few extra dollars. Judging
    >> by your reaction I'd say he blew it.

    >
    >I don't think it's common at all. TradeMe don't offer that ability if the
    >auction's highest bid was greater than reserve.
    >


    Yes they do. You just use the option for a deal not going thru, let's
    you offer the item to another bidder.

    It's common with the characters out for as much as they can get. If
    you put an item up twice (or more) then you'll split the bidding &
    neither auction will go as high as for a single item. So they put one
    auction up, the bidders fight for it, the price goes higher... and
    then they offer the other other item to the losing bidder at the high
    price.

    Gavin
    Gavin Tunney, Aug 7, 2003
    #16
  17. JD

    SteveM Guest

    (Gavin Tunney) wrote in news:3f3bd523.4371007
    @news.xtra.co.nz:

    > On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 13:21:44 +1200, "Howard" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Gavin Tunney wrote:
    >>
    >>> It's common practice for dealers on Trademe to offer goods to the

    next
    >>> highest bidder, especially when the bids get way up there. Usually it
    >>> just means they have more than one of that item, I think but am not
    >>> sure they can also avoid Trademe fees that way. The alacrity with
    >>> which the offer was made suggests the price was way over the top &
    >>> seller was falling over himself to make a few extra dollars. Judging
    >>> by your reaction I'd say he blew it.

    >>
    >>I don't think it's common at all. TradeMe don't offer that ability if

    the
    >>auction's highest bid was greater than reserve.
    >>

    >
    > Yes they do. You just use the option for a deal not going thru, let's
    > you offer the item to another bidder.
    >
    > It's common with the characters out for as much as they can get. If
    > you put an item up twice (or more) then you'll split the bidding &
    > neither auction will go as high as for a single item. So they put one
    > auction up, the bidders fight for it, the price goes higher... and
    > then they offer the other other item to the losing bidder at the high
    > price.
    >
    > Gavin
    >


    There is a time delay for that process. Certainly more than 4 seconds as
    stated in the OP.

    SteveM
    SteveM, Aug 8, 2003
    #17
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