TradeMe - Item sold, but still offered at fixed price - How??

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Alan, Dec 19, 2007.

  1. Alan

    Alan Guest

    Hi All,

    I had this vehicle on my watch list:

    http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=131388627

    The auction had a reserve of $1 and the final bid was $9,950 so it was
    sold. I then received a fixed price offer from the vendor offering to
    sell it for $9,500 - both the sale to another member, and the offer
    are on the top section:

    http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3892/wwwtrademeconzbrowselisyq1.tif

    Given that this is one specific vehicle (the rego and exact mileage is
    on there so it can't be 10 identical imports for example), how can
    this be?

    Also, look at the bidding - is it suspicious that Guest01 bid up the
    price right at the end?

    Is this in line with acceptable practice or am I just being naive?

    Ultimately, should I complain to TM or is this just 'par for the
    course'?

    Thanks,
    --

    Alan.

    The views expressed are my own, and not those of my employer or anyone
    else associated with me.

    My current valid email address is:



    This is valid as is. It is not munged, or altered at all.

    It will be valid for AT LEAST one month from the date of this post.

    If you are trying to contact me after that time,
    it MAY still be valid, but may also have been
    deactivated due to spam. If so, and you want
    to contact me by email, try searching for a
    more recent post by me to find my current
    email address.

    The following is a (probably!) totally unique
    and meaningless string of characters that you
    can use to find posts by me in a search engine:

    ewygchvboocno43vb674b6nq46tvb
     
    Alan, Dec 19, 2007
    #1
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  2. Alan

    EMB Guest

    Alan wrote:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I had this vehicle on my watch list:
    >
    > http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=131388627
    >
    > The auction had a reserve of $1 and the final bid was $9,950 so it was
    > sold. I then received a fixed price offer from the vendor offering to
    > sell it for $9,500 - both the sale to another member, and the offer
    > are on the top section:
    >
    > http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3892/wwwtrademeconzbrowselisyq1.tif
    >
    > Given that this is one specific vehicle (the rego and exact mileage is
    > on there so it can't be 10 identical imports for example), how can
    > this be?
    >
    > Also, look at the bidding - is it suspicious that Guest01 bid up the
    > price right at the end?
    >
    > Is this in line with acceptable practice or am I just being naive?
    >
    > Ultimately, should I complain to TM or is this just 'par for the
    > course'?


    I reckon it's legit - just some asshole who has decided not to go ahead
    with the purchase. It looks like Senate Finance is the seller - why not
    call them and ask what the story is.
     
    EMB, Dec 19, 2007
    #2
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  3. Alan

    Cadae Guest

    "Alan" <> wrote in message news:fkambo$3ti$...
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I had this vehicle on my watch list:
    >
    > http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=131388627
    >
    > The auction had a reserve of $1 and the final bid was $9,950 so it was
    > sold. I then received a fixed price offer from the vendor offering to
    > sell it for $9,500 - both the sale to another member, and the offer are on
    > the top section:
    >
    > http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3892/wwwtrademeconzbrowselisyq1.tif
    >
    > Given that this is one specific vehicle (the rego and exact mileage is on
    > there so it can't be 10 identical imports for example), how can this be?
    >
    > Also, look at the bidding - is it suspicious that Guest01 bid up the price
    > right at the end?
    >
    > Is this in line with acceptable practice or am I just being naive?
    >
    > Ultimately, should I complain to TM or is this just 'par for the course'?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > --
    >
    > Alan.


    It does look like a shill bidding scam - that Guest01 bidder is newly
    created, with no address verification. Then again, it could be legitimate -
    Guest01 could be someone who just wanted that vehicle and has never used
    Trademe before, and the seller might not trust the bid as Guest01 has no
    trading history.

    Try putting your question to the Scambusters forum at
    http://scambusters.co.nz
    They specialise in identifying and shutting down Trademe scams, including
    shill bidding. If you're concerned about being identified in the forum, use
    a different pseudonym to register on scambusters - most users do.


    PC
     
    Cadae, Dec 19, 2007
    #3
  4. Alan

    BTMO Guest

    "Alan" <> wrote

    > Hi All,
    >
    > I had this vehicle on my watch list:
    >
    > http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=131388627
    >
    > The auction had a reserve of $1 and the final bid was $9,950 so it was
    > sold. I then received a fixed price offer from the vendor offering to
    > sell it for $9,500 - both the sale to another member, and the offer are on
    > the top section:
    >
    > http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3892/wwwtrademeconzbrowselisyq1.tif
    >
    > Given that this is one specific vehicle (the rego and exact mileage is on
    > there so it can't be 10 identical imports for example), how can this be?


    Possibly the person who won the auction reneged right at the end. You get
    jackasses who do this.

    Was your bid higher or lower than $9,500? If higher, go for it. If lower,
    and more than you wanted to spend, let it pass.

    Coincidentally, I just bought a car on trademe as well. It was also a 2001
    model in very good nick - but was several k cheaper than that!

    I got a hell of a deal...

    :)

    > Also, look at the bidding - is it suspicious that Guest01 bid up the price
    > right at the end?


    Yep, sounds like a jackass.

    > Is this in line with acceptable practice or am I just being naive?


    No, it isn't. Winning an auction carries legal obligations. However, a
    number of people don't seem to understand this, or "just for a giggle" make
    idiotic bids that they have no intention on following through with. This
    could be one of these people.
    >
    > Ultimately, should I complain to TM or is this just 'par for the course'?


    If you feel aggreived, at least tell them what happened. I really feel
    though that you are simply the victim of a moron.

    Cheers,

    Brenton
     
    BTMO, Dec 19, 2007
    #4
  5. In article <>, "BTMO" <> wrote:
    (snip)

    >If you feel aggreived, at least tell them what happened. I really feel
    >though that you are simply the victim of a moron.


    Is there really a "victim" here ? It's an offer. No one has to accept it.
    I admit I usually put in my top bid. If it goes higher I don't win,
    don't want it and am still happy. :)

    Yes it could be "own bids" ... their problem, not ours. :)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Dec 20, 2007
    #5
  6. Alan

    Alan Guest

    You're probably right - Not worth worrying about.

    --

    Alan.

    The views expressed are my own, and not those of my employer or anyone
    else associated with me.

    My current valid email address is:



    This is valid as is. It is not munged, or altered at all.

    It will be valid for AT LEAST one month from the date of this post.

    If you are trying to contact me after that time,
    it MAY still be valid, but may also have been
    deactivated due to spam. If so, and you want
    to contact me by email, try searching for a
    more recent post by me to find my current
    email address.

    The following is a (probably!) totally unique
    and meaningless string of characters that you
    can use to find posts by me in a search engine:

    ewygchvboocno43vb674b6nq46tvb




    "EMB" <> wrote in message
    news:4768f23a$...
    > Alan wrote:
    >> Hi All,
    >>
    >> I had this vehicle on my watch list:
    >>
    >> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=131388627
    >>
    >> The auction had a reserve of $1 and the final bid was $9,950 so it
    >> was sold. I then received a fixed price offer from the vendor
    >> offering to sell it for $9,500 - both the sale to another member,
    >> and the offer are on the top section:
    >>
    >> http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3892/wwwtrademeconzbrowselisyq1.tif
    >>
    >> Given that this is one specific vehicle (the rego and exact mileage
    >> is on there so it can't be 10 identical imports for example), how
    >> can this be?
    >>
    >> Also, look at the bidding - is it suspicious that Guest01 bid up
    >> the price right at the end?
    >>
    >> Is this in line with acceptable practice or am I just being naive?
    >>
    >> Ultimately, should I complain to TM or is this just 'par for the
    >> course'?

    >
    > I reckon it's legit - just some asshole who has decided not to go
    > ahead with the purchase. It looks like Senate Finance is the
    > seller - why not call them and ask what the story is.
     
    Alan, Dec 20, 2007
    #6
  7. Alan

    Alan Guest

    I'll have a look at that site, but if Guest01 was just registered to
    muck about then what could they do?

    --

    Alan.

    The views expressed are my own, and not those of my employer or anyone
    else associated with me.

    My current valid email address is:



    This is valid as is. It is not munged, or altered at all.

    It will be valid for AT LEAST one month from the date of this post.

    If you are trying to contact me after that time,
    it MAY still be valid, but may also have been
    deactivated due to spam. If so, and you want
    to contact me by email, try searching for a
    more recent post by me to find my current
    email address.

    The following is a (probably!) totally unique
    and meaningless string of characters that you
    can use to find posts by me in a search engine:

    ewygchvboocno43vb674b6nq46tvb




    "Cadae" <> wrote in message
    news:4768e67d$...
    >
    > "Alan" <> wrote in message
    > news:fkambo$3ti$...
    >> Hi All,
    >>
    >> I had this vehicle on my watch list:
    >>
    >> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=131388627
    >>
    >> The auction had a reserve of $1 and the final bid was $9,950 so it
    >> was sold. I then received a fixed price offer from the vendor
    >> offering to sell it for $9,500 - both the sale to another member,
    >> and the offer are on the top section:
    >>
    >> http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3892/wwwtrademeconzbrowselisyq1.tif
    >>
    >> Given that this is one specific vehicle (the rego and exact mileage
    >> is on there so it can't be 10 identical imports for example), how
    >> can this be?
    >>
    >> Also, look at the bidding - is it suspicious that Guest01 bid up
    >> the price right at the end?
    >>
    >> Is this in line with acceptable practice or am I just being naive?
    >>
    >> Ultimately, should I complain to TM or is this just 'par for the
    >> course'?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> --
    >>
    >> Alan.

    >
    > It does look like a shill bidding scam - that Guest01 bidder is
    > newly created, with no address verification. Then again, it could be
    > legitimate - Guest01 could be someone who just wanted that vehicle
    > and has never used Trademe before, and the seller might not trust
    > the bid as Guest01 has no trading history.
    >
    > Try putting your question to the Scambusters forum at
    > http://scambusters.co.nz
    > They specialise in identifying and shutting down Trademe scams,
    > including shill bidding. If you're concerned about being identified
    > in the forum, use a different pseudonym to register on scambusters -
    > most users do.
    >
    >
    > PC
    >
     
    Alan, Dec 20, 2007
    #7
  8. Alan

    Alan Guest

    I haven't lost anything (except perhaps time), so no victim as such.

    --

    Alan.

    The views expressed are my own, and not those of my employer or anyone
    else associated with me.

    My current valid email address is:



    This is valid as is. It is not munged, or altered at all.

    It will be valid for AT LEAST one month from the date of this post.

    If you are trying to contact me after that time,
    it MAY still be valid, but may also have been
    deactivated due to spam. If so, and you want
    to contact me by email, try searching for a
    more recent post by me to find my current
    email address.

    The following is a (probably!) totally unique
    and meaningless string of characters that you
    can use to find posts by me in a search engine:

    ewygchvboocno43vb674b6nq46tvb




    "Bruce Sinclair" <>
    wrote in message news:fkc8i8$fi$...
    > In article <>, "BTMO" <> wrote:
    > (snip)
    >
    >>If you feel aggreived, at least tell them what happened. I really
    >>feel
    >>though that you are simply the victim of a moron.

    >
    > Is there really a "victim" here ? It's an offer. No one has to
    > accept it.
    > I admit I usually put in my top bid. If it goes higher I don't win,
    > don't want it and am still happy. :)
    >
    > Yes it could be "own bids" ... their problem, not ours. :)
    >
     
    Alan, Dec 20, 2007
    #8
  9. Alan

    BTMO Guest

    "Bruce Sinclair" <> wrote

    >>If you feel aggreived, at least tell them what happened. I really feel
    >>though that you are simply the victim of a moron.

    >
    > Is there really a "victim" here ? It's an offer. No one has to accept it.
    > I admit I usually put in my top bid. If it goes higher I don't win,
    > don't want it and am still happy. :)


    If the vendor is doing it, then it would be a breach of the terms of
    trademe.

    And I do seem to recall hearing about some real estate ages who were done
    for putting in false bids (via colleagues) to increase their own
    commissions. I *think* that counts as fraud...

    > Yes it could be "own bids" ... their problem, not ours. :)


    And not very fair for the people bidding in good faith, of course...
     
    BTMO, Dec 20, 2007
    #9
  10. In article <4769e6a9$>, "BTMO" <> wrote:
    >"Bruce Sinclair" <> wrote
    >
    >>>If you feel aggreived, at least tell them what happened. I really feel
    >>>though that you are simply the victim of a moron.

    >>
    >> Is there really a "victim" here ? It's an offer. No one has to accept it.
    >> I admit I usually put in my top bid. If it goes higher I don't win,
    >> don't want it and am still happy. :)

    >
    >If the vendor is doing it, then it would be a breach of the terms of
    >trademe.
    >
    >And I do seem to recall hearing about some real estate ages who were done
    >for putting in false bids (via colleagues) to increase their own
    >commissions. I *think* that counts as fraud...


    Almost certainly ? ... I think that if it's done in full knowledge (ie the
    auctioneer says at the start something like 'the vendor may be bidding' then
    it's "OK". Ethical ? ... I don't think so ... but hey ... it's reall estate
    :)

    >> Yes it could be "own bids" ... their problem, not ours. :)

    >
    >And not very fair for the people bidding in good faith, of course...


    Agreed. But if people only bid what they are prepared to pay and never
    accept 'fixed price offers', then no harm. :)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Dec 20, 2007
    #10
  11. In article <fkccuv$dak$>, "Alan" <> wrote:
    >I haven't lost anything (except perhaps time), so no victim as such.


    As an aside, you will lose replies and/or people reading your posts if you
    top post. Put your responses below the point you are addressing and snip the
    irrelevant.

    Thanks :)

    ps - I cut nothing ... an indicator of why this might happen. :)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Dec 20, 2007
    #11
  12. Alan

    Squiggle Guest

    Bruce Sinclair wrote:
    > In article <4769e6a9$>, "BTMO" <> wrote:
    >> "Bruce Sinclair" <> wrote
    >>
    >>>> If you feel aggreived, at least tell them what happened. I really feel
    >>>> though that you are simply the victim of a moron.
    >>> Is there really a "victim" here ? It's an offer. No one has to accept it.
    >>> I admit I usually put in my top bid. If it goes higher I don't win,
    >>> don't want it and am still happy. :)

    >> If the vendor is doing it, then it would be a breach of the terms of
    >> trademe.
    >>
    >> And I do seem to recall hearing about some real estate ages who were done
    >> for putting in false bids (via colleagues) to increase their own
    >> commissions. I *think* that counts as fraud...

    >
    > Almost certainly ? ... I think that if it's done in full knowledge (ie the
    > auctioneer says at the start something like 'the vendor may be bidding' then
    > it's "OK". Ethical ? ... I don't think so ... but hey ... it's reall estate
    > :)


    Usually the auctioneer mentions estate agents may be bidding, but IIRC
    they have to stop bidding as soon as the property reaches the reserve
    price. Legal.. yes, ethical.. decide for yourself.

    Also happens at used car auctions, particularly repossessed vehicle
    auctions, owner/agent bids against genuine buyers then gives the
    auctioneer the nod to put it under the hammer when the price gets to
    something they are happy with.
     
    Squiggle, Dec 20, 2007
    #12
  13. Alan

    Jerry Guest

    Squiggle wrote:
    > Bruce Sinclair wrote:
    >> In article <4769e6a9$>, "BTMO" <> wrote:
    >>> "Bruce Sinclair" <> wrote
    >>>
    >>>>> If you feel aggreived, at least tell them what happened. I really feel
    >>>>> though that you are simply the victim of a moron.
    >>>> Is there really a "victim" here ? It's an offer. No one has to
    >>>> accept it.
    >>>> I admit I usually put in my top bid. If it goes higher I don't win,
    >>>> don't want it and am still happy. :)
    >>> If the vendor is doing it, then it would be a breach of the terms of
    >>> trademe.
    >>>
    >>> And I do seem to recall hearing about some real estate ages who were
    >>> done for putting in false bids (via colleagues) to increase their own
    >>> commissions. I *think* that counts as fraud...

    >>
    >> Almost certainly ? ... I think that if it's done in full knowledge (ie
    >> the auctioneer says at the start something like 'the vendor may be
    >> bidding' then it's "OK". Ethical ? ... I don't think so ... but hey
    >> ... it's reall estate :)

    >
    > Usually the auctioneer mentions estate agents may be bidding, but IIRC
    > they have to stop bidding as soon as the property reaches the reserve
    > price. Legal.. yes, ethical.. decide for yourself.
    >
    > Also happens at used car auctions, particularly repossessed vehicle
    > auctions, owner/agent bids against genuine buyers then gives the
    > auctioneer the nod to put it under the hammer when the price gets to
    > something they are happy with.


    In a real estate auction a lot of the people standing arojund are of
    course real estate agents. If there is one legitimate bidder, the
    auctioneer will take phantom bids to try to get him to the reserve.
    Look for the fine print in the auction papers that state that if the
    reserve is not met the vendor may negotiate with the top bidder. If the
    top bidder does not wish to negotiate then the vendor may negiote with
    the second highest bidder, who is of course the only legitimate bidder.

    Phantom bidding may also be used when there is no legitimate bidder at
    all, to signal the vendor what the realistic price of his house really is.
     
    Jerry, Dec 20, 2007
    #13
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