Toshiba: Strong start to HD DVD

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Allan, Apr 20, 2006.

  1. Allan

    Allan Guest

    http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleID=CA6325556

    “We are filling the pipeline to retailers across the U.S.,” Sally
    said.

    Toshiba’s players should be stocked in about 800 Best Buy stores, 200
    Wal-Mart stores, 600 Sears stores and other regional retailers for a
    total reach of 3,000 stores, she said.

    “We’ve heard very positive sales reports so far,” Sally said.

    Toshiba hasn’t released how many players it is shipping, but
    distributors and retailers said they’ve heard estimates of 10,000 to
    15,000 in the initial shipment.






    "Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game
    because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from
    -- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
    - Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_
     
    Allan, Apr 20, 2006
    #1
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  2. Allan

    Richard C. Guest

    X-No-archive: yes

    "Allan" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    > http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleID=CA6325556
    >
    > “We are filling the pipeline to retailers across the U.S.,” Sally
    > said.
    >
    > Toshiba’s players should be stocked in about 800 Best Buy stores, 200
    > Wal-Mart stores, 600 Sears stores and other regional retailers for a
    > total reach of 3,000 stores, she said.
    >
    > “We’ve heard very positive sales reports so far,” Sally said.
    >
    > Toshiba hasn’t released how many players it is shipping, but
    > distributors and retailers said they’ve heard estimates of 10,000 to
    > 15,000 in the initial shipment.
    >

    =====================================
    Which means only 3 to 5 per store.
    Big deal!
     
    Richard C., Apr 20, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Allan

    Allan Guest

    On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:30:40 -0700, "Richard C."
    <> wrote:


    >Which means only 3 to 5 per store.
    >Big deal!



    Just the first weekend ........ the revolution is just starting!






    "Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game
    because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from
    -- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
    - Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_
     
    Allan, Apr 20, 2006
    #3
  4. Allan

    Richard C. Guest

    X-No-archive: yes

    "Allan" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    > On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:30:40 -0700, "Richard C."
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Which means only 3 to 5 per store.
    >>Big deal!

    >
    >
    > Just the first weekend ........ the revolution is just starting!
    >


    ==========================
    We shall see.......................
    I am a usual "early adaptor", but not this time.

    =========================
     
    Richard C., Apr 21, 2006
    #4
  5. Allan

    Allan Guest

    On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:56:06 -0700, "Richard C."
    <> wrote:

    >X-No-archive: yes
    >
    >"Allan" <> wrote in
    >message news:...
    >> On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:30:40 -0700, "Richard C."
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Which means only 3 to 5 per store.
    >>>Big deal!

    >>
    >>
    >> Just the first weekend ........ the revolution is just starting!
    >>

    >
    >==========================
    >We shall see.......................
    >I am a usual "early adaptor", but not this time.
    >
    >=========================


    Me, all over it.... Like the "upconverting" of existing DVD's with
    the new player.... But to be honest, certainly will not grow my
    collection of HD DVD's like I did when DVD first came out.

    Suspect I am not alone on that.








    "Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game
    because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from
    -- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
    - Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_
     
    Allan, Apr 21, 2006
    #5
  6. Allan

    Jeff Rife Guest

    Allan () wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    > >We shall see.......................
    > >I am a usual "early adaptor", but not this time.

    >
    > Me, all over it.... Like the "upconverting" of existing DVD's with
    > the new player....


    How is it any different from current upconverting DVD players? Since
    I've got quite a few of those lying around, and you can buy one for
    $150, the extra $350 for the HD-DVD player is an awful lot to pay if
    all you care about is upconverting existing DVDs.

    --
    Jeff Rife |
    | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/RhymesWithOrange/BigDogs.gif
     
    Jeff Rife, Apr 21, 2006
    #6
  7. Allan

    Bill's News Guest

    Jeff Rife wrote:
    > Allan () wrote
    > in
    > alt.video.dvd:
    >>> We shall see.......................
    >>> I am a usual "early adaptor", but not this time.

    >>
    >> Me, all over it.... Like the "upconverting" of existing DVD's with
    >> the new player....

    >
    > How is it any different from current upconverting DVD players?
    > Since
    > I've got quite a few of those lying around, and you can buy one for
    > $150, the extra $350 for the HD-DVD player is an awful lot to pay if
    > all you care about is upconverting existing DVDs.


    I'm having a semantic attack regarding "upconvert."

    I have installed here a 1920x1080(p) monitor, a cable HD-VR
    (Motorola), and a Buffalo LT DVD player - both connected via component
    input. The monitor uses all 1080 pixels from either source.

    The Buffalo manual specifically states that it is enjoined from
    "upconverting" DVDs by the DVD Consortium's and MPAA's legislative
    powers. However, all 1080 vertical pixels are employed in displaying
    a properly scaled picture from a DVD.

    What is different about the player's behavior, when playing DVDs vs.
    playing videos stored on a PC drive, is the ZOOM function. When
    playing a DVD, the BLT zoom has 4 increments of unstated percentages.
    When playing a PC file, zoom has 3 settings - "actual size," "fit to
    screen," and "full screen." Wherein, "actual size" is presented in
    the unscaled size (720x480, say), "fit to screen" is scaled sensibly
    to the first edge which abuts a screen edge, and "full screen" scales
    to the farther edge (while retaining aspect).

    For all but 16:9 source materials, it's actually more visually
    pleasing to play videos from the PC drives - as the scaling options
    makes more sense than the monitor's single scaling option best
    referred to as S-T-R-E-T-C-H and the Motorola's total lack of scaling
    options.

    As the BLT player does NOT play authored DVDs from the PC's hard or
    optical drive, it's necessary to rip the DVD and remove any ancillary
    audio to achieve this. According to the BLT manual the player is not
    enjoined from upconverting these images. Yet, I see no difference
    between the same DVD played from the PC or the original disc? Both of
    which are excellent images, BTW.

    Now, when I compare 640x480 analogue feeds over the cable, with
    640x480 digital feeds, and HDTV of ????x???? feeds, there is a
    significant difference in image quality. Are we suggesting that an
    "upconverter" placed between the cable box and the monitor would
    improve picture quality of the lower definition sources?

    It seems to me that "upconverting" should mean something more than
    merely scaling the image to the best fit on the screen, but damned if
    I can tell what that is?

    Can you tell me, Jeff, or anyone for that matter, what upconverting
    does for you?
     
    Bill's News, Apr 21, 2006
    #7
  8. Allan

    Jeff Rife Guest

    Bill's News () wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    > Are we suggesting that an
    > "upconverter" placed between the cable box and the monitor would
    > improve picture quality of the lower definition sources?


    Without a doubt.

    I've been watching the "Babylon 5" DVDs lately, and they look pretty bad
    at 480i due to the way they were mastered (there are many threads about
    this if you want more info). But, *all* the issues disappear when viewing
    output at 1080i. All the upconversion I do has access to the original MPEG
    data, though, so that might be a difference.

    --
    Jeff Rife | "Because he was human; because he had goodness;
    | because he was moral they called him insane.
    | Delusions of grandeur; visions of splendor;
    | A manic-depressive, he walks in the rain."
    | -- Rush, "Cinderella Man"
     
    Jeff Rife, Apr 22, 2006
    #8
  9. Allan

    Allan Guest

    On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 02:43:35 -0400, Jeff Rife <> wrote:

    >Allan () wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    >> >We shall see.......................
    >> >I am a usual "early adaptor", but not this time.

    >>
    >> Me, all over it.... Like the "upconverting" of existing DVD's with
    >> the new player....

    >
    >How is it any different from current upconverting DVD players? Since
    >I've got quite a few of those lying around, and you can buy one for
    >$150, the extra $350 for the HD-DVD player is an awful lot to pay if
    >all you care about is upconverting existing DVDs.


    Reviews that I have read state that it "is" better than existing
    upconverting DVD players.... and it saves me from having two
    machines... just gave away my Sony Upconverting DVD Player because the
    Toshiba will do the same thing, and maybe a somewhat better job. My
    TV only has so many inputs!






    "Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game
    because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from
    -- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
    - Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_
     
    Allan, Apr 22, 2006
    #9
  10. Allan

    Bill's News Guest

    Jeff Rife wrote:
    > Bill's News () wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    >> Are we suggesting that an
    >> "upconverter" placed between the cable box and the monitor would
    >> improve picture quality of the lower definition sources?

    >
    > Without a doubt.
    >
    > I've been watching the "Babylon 5" DVDs lately, and they look pretty
    > bad at 480i due to the way they were mastered (there are many
    > threads
    > about this if you want more info). But, *all* the issues disappear
    > when viewing output at 1080i. All the upconversion I do has access
    > to the original MPEG data, though, so that might be a difference.


    Thanks Jeff. By "original MPEG data," I presume you mean DVDs? But
    your response seems to indicate that broadcast SD TV will benefit from
    a converter, so I'm browsing now.
     
    Bill's News, Apr 22, 2006
    #10
  11. Allan

    Jeff Rife Guest

    Allan () wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    > >How is it any different from current upconverting DVD players? Since
    > >I've got quite a few of those lying around, and you can buy one for
    > >$150, the extra $350 for the HD-DVD player is an awful lot to pay if
    > >all you care about is upconverting existing DVDs.

    >
    > Reviews that I have read state that it "is" better than existing
    > upconverting DVD players....


    I find that unlikely. Anything they do in the way of processing for
    upconversion is available to standard DVD players.

    > and it saves me from having two
    > machines...


    This, I agree with. If you don't have either, then the extra $350
    *might* be OK if you are truly interested in HD movies. But, if you
    already have one, I wouldn't rush out and get an HD player...they'll
    drop a *lot* in price in just the first year, and by that time, there
    will be a lot more movies, too.

    --
    Jeff Rife | "My God, what if the secret ingredient is people?"
    | "No, there's already a soda like that: Soylent Cola."
    | "Oh. How is it?"
    | "It varies from person to person."
    | -- Fry and Leela, "Futurama"
     
    Jeff Rife, Apr 22, 2006
    #11
  12. Allan

    Jeff Rife Guest

    Bill's News () wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    > Thanks Jeff. By "original MPEG data," I presume you mean DVDs?


    Yes. We are generally talking about upconverting DVD players, and
    having the extra info available with the raw MPEG can help.

    > But
    > your response seems to indicate that broadcast SD TV will benefit from
    > a converter, so I'm browsing now.


    Maybe. It absolutely will when it becomes available as digital TV
    and you can get access to the raw MPEG-2 data. But, analog->digital->
    upconvert is quite expensive to do well. The MyHD card does it good
    enough for me, since I only need to do that sort of thing a couple of
    times a month.

    --
    Jeff Rife |
    | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Dilbert/TokenRing.gif
     
    Jeff Rife, Apr 22, 2006
    #12
  13. Allan

    Logos Guest


    > Reviews that I have read state that it "is" better than existing
    > upconverting DVD players....


    List the reviews.
     
    Logos, Apr 23, 2006
    #13
  14. Allan

    Allan Guest

    On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:13:49 -0700, "Logos" <> wrote:

    >
    >> Reviews that I have read state that it "is" better than existing
    >> upconverting DVD players....

    >
    >List the reviews.



    Sure.

    "23. I have been playing with my HD-A1 for a while now. The
    upconverting is phenomenal, some of the best I've ever seen."

    http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/18/toshiba-hd-a1-hd-dvd-player-gets-hands-on-treatment/

    "The Toshiba actually offers a slightly more detailed and sharper
    image than my Sony 9100ES. Colors and blacks are about equal (The Sony
    might have a bit better color rendition, but they are very close).
    Prior to this point, I speculated than Toshiba's effort would strictly
    be poured into the actual HD performance. Needless to say, my Sony
    9100ES went on eBay last night."

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=668019

    "We tried the upconversion playing a regular dvd as well and it looked
    a little better than other upconverting non-HD players i've seen. I
    cant say it looked as good as true Hd source DVD but is was more than
    acceptable."

    http://forumz.tomshardware.com/ce/Toshiba-HD-A1-HD-DVD-Player-Movies-1080i-ftopict50775.html


    Three enough?







    "Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game
    because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from
    -- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
    - Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_
     
    Allan, Apr 23, 2006
    #14
  15. Allan

    Allan Guest

    On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:13:49 -0700, "Logos" <> wrote:

    >
    >> Reviews that I have read state that it "is" better than existing
    >> upconverting DVD players....

    >
    >List the reviews.


    Oh yeah... forgot to say 'hello' Alpha.






    "Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game
    because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from
    -- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
    - Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_
     
    Allan, Apr 23, 2006
    #15
  16. Allan

    Mutley Guest

    Allan <> wrote:

    >On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 02:43:35 -0400, Jeff Rife <> wrote:
    >
    >>Allan () wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    >>> >We shall see.......................
    >>> >I am a usual "early adaptor", but not this time.
    >>>
    >>> Me, all over it.... Like the "upconverting" of existing DVD's with
    >>> the new player....

    >>
    >>How is it any different from current upconverting DVD players? Since
    >>I've got quite a few of those lying around, and you can buy one for
    >>$150, the extra $350 for the HD-DVD player is an awful lot to pay if
    >>all you care about is upconverting existing DVDs.

    >
    >Reviews that I have read state that it "is" better than existing
    >upconverting DVD players.... and it saves me from having two
    >machines... just gave away my Sony Upconverting DVD Player because the
    >Toshiba will do the same thing, and maybe a somewhat better job. My
    >TV only has so many inputs!
    >
    >
    >

    http://www.projectorcentral.com/hd-dvd.htm

    HD-DVD: It's Here, and it's Spectacular
    Evan Powell, April 21, 2006
    ProjectorCentral.com

    Tuesday, April 18, 2006, was official launch day in the USA for the
    new high definition DVD format known as HD-DVD, and the first HD-DVD
    player, the Toshiba HD-A1. I don't know how it went around the
    country, but here in Las Vegas most retailers weren't quite ready.
    Nevertheless, with a few phone calls we were able to track one down,
    along with three initial release discs—The Last Samurai, Serenity, and
    The Phantom of the Opera. We've been playing with it for the last few
    days, and I am happy to report our first experiences with it.
     
    Mutley, Apr 26, 2006
    #16
  17. Allan

    Allan Guest

    On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:28:28 -0400, Jeff Rife <> wrote:

    >Allan () wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    >> >How is it any different from current upconverting DVD players? Since
    >> >I've got quite a few of those lying around, and you can buy one for
    >> >$150, the extra $350 for the HD-DVD player is an awful lot to pay if
    >> >all you care about is upconverting existing DVDs.

    >>
    >> Reviews that I have read state that it "is" better than existing
    >> upconverting DVD players....

    >
    >I find that unlikely. Anything they do in the way of processing for
    >upconversion is available to standard DVD players.


    Jeff.... did you see these?

    "23. I have been playing with my HD-A1 for a while now. The
    upconverting is phenomenal, some of the best I've ever seen."

    http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/18/toshiba-hd-a1-hd-dvd-player-gets-hands-on-treatment/

    "The Toshiba actually offers a slightly more detailed and sharper
    image than my Sony 9100ES. Colors and blacks are about equal (The Sony
    might have a bit better color rendition, but they are very close).
    Prior to this point, I speculated than Toshiba's effort would strictly
    be poured into the actual HD performance. Needless to say, my Sony
    9100ES went on eBay last night."

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=668019

    "We tried the upconversion playing a regular dvd as well and it looked
    a little better than other upconverting non-HD players i've seen. I
    cant say it looked as good as true Hd source DVD but is was more than
    acceptable."

    http://forumz.tomshardware.com/ce/Toshiba-HD-A1-HD-DVD-Player-Movies-1080i-ftopict50775.html

    >> and it saves me from having two
    >> machines...

    >
    >This, I agree with. If you don't have either, then the extra $350
    >*might* be OK if you are truly interested in HD movies. But, if you
    >already have one, I wouldn't rush out and get an HD player...they'll
    >drop a *lot* in price in just the first year, and by that time, there
    >will be a lot more movies, too.


    It is always more espensive to jump on board early, but I don't mind
    to be honest. It's fun!






    "Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game
    because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from
    -- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
    - Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_
     
    Allan, Apr 28, 2006
    #17
  18. Allan

    Jeff Rife Guest

    Allan () wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    > >> Reviews that I have read state that it "is" better than existing
    > >> upconverting DVD players....

    > >
    > >I find that unlikely. Anything they do in the way of processing for
    > >upconversion is available to standard DVD players.

    >
    > Jeff.... did you see these?


    What part of "anything they do in the way of processing for upconversion
    is available to standard DVD players" don't you understand?

    The newest _________ (fill in the blank) always has the latest features.
    In this case, it's easy to add every feature that an HD-DVD player has
    concerning DVD playback into an upconverting DVD player. So, tomorrow,
    those features will be available in a $100 DVD player.

    >
    > [snip]
    >


    Stop posting the same three references over and over. I'm sure anybody
    that wanted to could find reviews that go the other way, particularly
    when compared to really good upconverting DVD players (hint...none of
    them are CE devices).

    --
    Jeff Rife |
    | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/FoxTrot/TransporterError.jpg
     
    Jeff Rife, Apr 28, 2006
    #18
  19. Allan

    Bill's News Guest

    Re: Toshiba: (more about "upconvert")

    Bill's News wrote:
    > Jeff Rife wrote:
    >> Bill's News () wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    >>> Are we suggesting that
    >>> an
    >>> "upconverter" placed between the cable box and the monitor would
    >>> improve picture quality of the lower definition sources?

    >>
    >> Without a doubt.
    >>
    >> I've been watching the "Babylon 5" DVDs lately, and they look
    >> pretty
    >> bad at 480i due to the way they were mastered (there are many
    >> threads
    >> about this if you want more info). But, *all* the issues disappear
    >> when viewing output at 1080i. All the upconversion I do has access
    >> to the original MPEG data, though, so that might be a difference.

    >
    > Thanks Jeff. By "original MPEG data," I presume you mean DVDs? But
    > your response seems to indicate that broadcast SD TV will benefit
    > from
    > a converter, so I'm browsing now.


    It's becoming slightly clearer now. Equipment: Westinghouse 42" 1080p
    monitor, cable co. supplied Motorola H-DVR (1080i), Buffalo LT
    DVD/Network video player (1080i), 2gp4 - 512 - 720 GB tower equipped
    with Hauppauge 250 (or USB2) capture @ 480i.

    While the BLT manual states that DVD upconvert is disabled, this is
    clearly not true - as I doubt it is possible to get better picture
    quality via component output than it does now from DVDs!! (sadly, I've
    discovered that I had bought some "letter-box" DVDs some years ago,
    which actually look quite silly on the wide screen monitor, and can
    not be properly scaled with the equipment on hand).

    The Motorola H-DVR will display great HDTV broadcast images, and
    replays of them from its HDD, but it apparently does not upconvert
    480i - thus those broadcasts have a relatively washed out appearance
    for digital (which may be 480p??), more so for analog channels, and
    even more so when I instruct the player that no 720p nor 1080i is
    available over the component output leads.

    There is also no question that the BLT does indeed upconvert any video
    it plays from the networked PCs.

    OK, so I can capture MPEG2 SDTV via S-Video from the cable box and its
    payback, via the BLT component out, is actually better visual quality
    than the same material coming from the cable box. However, when
    playing videos from the LAN, the BLT only scales (zooms) within the
    source frame, thus 480i/p letter-boxed captures can not be made full
    screen. Both the BLT and Westinghouse fill-screen "zoom" is
    ludicrous, as it stretches rather than over-scans. Whereas, the BLT
    DVD zoom is almost perfect, at level 1, for example, scaling 2.25 to
    ~1.75 (barely overscanned vertically and trimmed at both sides).

    Ah! But - convert the 480i MPEG2 captures to 16:9 cropped xvid/AVI (at
    decent quality codec settings) and the image created by the BLT rivals
    the image from a DVD, while also fitting the screen properly without
    further ado.

    Now this is not the final word - as I'm not yet using DVI to the
    monitor (presently only available from the Motorola box), so I don't
    know whether the monitor has any "upconversion" capabilities of its
    own - none is claimed nor denied in its accompanying documentation.

    Rating the experience personally of switching from SDTV to HDTV: about
    4 out of 10 at this time. Not because HDTV isn't vastly superior to
    SDTV, but because programming for it is rarely interesting (to me) and
    the "magic" required to get the most out of the display is just that -
    MAGIC!!

    Upconvert is obviously different from scaling in that an image which
    uses all 1080 rows of the display (properly scaled) looks measurably
    better when presented via an "upconverter."

    In the equipment I've listed here, upconversion seems to be needed
    only in non-HDTV programming coming from the cable converter (Motorola
    H-DVR) when playing non-HDTV digital or analog sources. If this is
    not overcome by enabling the DVI out of that unit, then a converted
    between it and the monitor would be my next step.

    At any rate, how is the average DVD, or cable TV, customer supposed to
    cope with all this technophilia just because they bought an HDTV??
    While I've only been exploring this for 2 weeks, and have all the time
    that retirement allows for this, the vast majority of customers simply
    want to be able to plug in the equipment and get good results!!
     
    Bill's News, Apr 28, 2006
    #19
  20. Allan

    Jeff Rife Guest

    Re: Toshiba: (more about "upconvert")

    Bill's News () wrote in alt.video.dvd:
    > However, when
    > playing videos from the LAN, the BLT only scales (zooms) within the
    > source frame, thus 480i/p letter-boxed captures can not be made full
    > screen. Both the BLT and Westinghouse fill-screen "zoom" is
    > ludicrous, as it stretches rather than over-scans. Whereas, the BLT
    > DVD zoom is almost perfect, at level 1, for example, scaling 2.25 to
    > ~1.75 (barely overscanned vertically and trimmed at both sides).


    For more options for playing over a LAN, you could look at a Roku
    PhotoBridge. It's what I use for day-to-day playback of HD recordings.

    --
    Jeff Rife | "Grab a shovel...I'm only one skull
    | short of a Mouseketeer reunion."
    |
    | -- Bender, "Futurama"
     
    Jeff Rife, Apr 29, 2006
    #20
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    Oct 19, 2008
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