To Fly or not to fly? Should I move from Mozilla 1.5 to T-bird andF-bird?

Discussion in 'Firefox' started by Daniel Steinberg, Nov 4, 2003.

  1. Hi everyone,
    I've been a long time Mozilla/Netscape user (since about Netscape 2 or 3
    and Mozilla 0.9.5). I love having my email and browser integrated, and
    love the Mozilla, I honestly believe it's been the best browser/email
    program since day 1 of Netscape. Although I have not contributed any
    code to Mozilla yet (I have looked at it and got lost after about 5
    lines, even though I'm at college studying computer and electronics
    technology and have advanced programming courses), I still very much
    know whats going on with Mozilla. But I'm totally confused over the
    reasoning for Thunderbird and Firebird? Whats the point when you already
    have Mozilla? I don't see the point of having two separate programs for
    your browser and email, although it would be great if the browser or
    email portion of the program would remain open if the other crashed, but
    other than that i think they should be integrated.
    If I am wrong should I switch? what would be the advantages and
    disadvantages?

    Thanks,
    Daniel Steinberg
    Student in 3rd year Computer Engineering Technology program at Seneca
    College in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
     
    Daniel Steinberg, Nov 4, 2003
    #1
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  2. Daniel Steinberg

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Re: To Fly or not to fly? Should I move from Mozilla 1.5 to T-birdand F-bird?

    Daniel Steinberg wrote:

    > Hi everyone,
    > I've been a long time Mozilla/Netscape user (since about Netscape 2 or 3
    > and Mozilla 0.9.5). I love having my email and browser integrated, and
    > love the Mozilla, I honestly believe it's been the best browser/email
    > program since day 1 of Netscape. Although I have not contributed any
    > code to Mozilla yet (I have looked at it and got lost after about 5
    > lines, even though I'm at college studying computer and electronics
    > technology and have advanced programming courses), I still very much
    > know whats going on with Mozilla. But I'm totally confused over the
    > reasoning for Thunderbird and Firebird? Whats the point when you already
    > have Mozilla? I don't see the point of having two separate programs for
    > your browser and email, although it would be great if the browser or
    > email portion of the program would remain open if the other crashed, but
    > other than that i think they should be integrated.
    > If I am wrong should I switch? what would be the advantages and
    > disadvantages?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Daniel Steinberg
    > Student in 3rd year Computer Engineering Technology program at Seneca
    > College in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    >


    Daniel,

    Some links to peruse.

    http://www.mozilla.org/
    http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firebird/charter.html
    http://texturizer.net/firebird/faq.html
    http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/faq.html

    In general, the answer to your question "Why?" is:

    1. Improve the efficiency of the code/programs
    2. Bring the GUI up to date and more in line with standard Windows
    practices
    3. Give people an incentive to use Mozilla products without having to
    commit to a whole suite and its large code size. This is especially
    important for those users already commited to and prefering another
    email, browser, composer, or chat client but who might like one of the
    other Mozilla options.

    Should you switch? Well, only you can ultimately answer that. The
    birds are still pre-release versions so there are quirks, limitations,
    bugs, etc. Still, they're pretty good for pre-release programs.

    The good news is that you can install and have resident, even run, all
    three (Mozilla, Mozilla Firebird, and Mozilla Thunderbird) at the same
    time to try them out and see how you like them. The key is to NOT share
    a user profile between any of them. Other than that, they all install
    into separate directories.

    You might want to check out some of the newsgroups listed here:

    http://edmullen.net/moz.html

    --
    Ed Mullen - Mozilla Champion
    http://edmullen.net
    http://edmullen.net/moz.html
    If toast always lands butter-side-down, and a cats always land on their
    feet, what would happen if you strapped a piece of toast on the back of
    a cat & dropped it?
     
    Ed Mullen, Nov 4, 2003
    #2
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  3. Re: To Fly or not to fly? Should I move from Mozilla 1.5 to T-birdand F-bird?

    Ed Mullen wrote:

    > Daniel Steinberg wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Hi everyone,
    >>I've been a long time Mozilla/Netscape user (since about Netscape 2 or 3
    >>and Mozilla 0.9.5). I love having my email and browser integrated, and
    >>love the Mozilla, I honestly believe it's been the best browser/email
    >>program since day 1 of Netscape. Although I have not contributed any
    >>code to Mozilla yet (I have looked at it and got lost after about 5
    >>lines, even though I'm at college studying computer and electronics
    >>technology and have advanced programming courses), I still very much
    >>know whats going on with Mozilla. But I'm totally confused over the
    >>reasoning for Thunderbird and Firebird? Whats the point when you already
    >>have Mozilla? I don't see the point of having two separate programs for
    >>your browser and email, although it would be great if the browser or
    >>email portion of the program would remain open if the other crashed, but
    >>other than that i think they should be integrated.
    >>If I am wrong should I switch? what would be the advantages and
    >>disadvantages?
    >>
    >>Thanks,
    >>Daniel Steinberg
    >>Student in 3rd year Computer Engineering Technology program at Seneca
    >>College in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    >>

    >
    >
    > Daniel,
    >
    > Some links to peruse.
    >
    > http://www.mozilla.org/
    > http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firebird/charter.html
    > http://texturizer.net/firebird/faq.html
    > http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/faq.html
    >
    > In general, the answer to your question "Why?" is:
    >
    > 1. Improve the efficiency of the code/programs
    > 2. Bring the GUI up to date and more in line with standard Windows
    > practices

    Whats not up to date about the GUI now? Not enough annimation in the
    icons on the toolbars? Naw they are perfect, I much prefer the classic
    skin to the modern, though I miss having the address bar being its own
    bar rather than part of the navigation bar, and what ever happened to
    the "Whats related" button that was in earlier Netscape 4 versions?
    I thought this was done a few verisons ago when XP style buttons and
    scroll bars were added?

    > 3. Give people an incentive to use Mozilla products without having to
    > commit to a whole suite and its large code size. This is especially
    > important for those users already commited to and prefering another
    > email, browser, composer, or chat client but who might like one of the
    > other Mozilla options.
    >
    > Should you switch? Well, only you can ultimately answer that. The
    > birds are still pre-release versions so there are quirks, limitations,
    > bugs, etc. Still, they're pretty good for pre-release programs.
    >
    > The good news is that you can install and have resident, even run, all
    > three (Mozilla, Mozilla Firebird, and Mozilla Thunderbird) at the same
    > time to try them out and see how you like them. The key is to NOT share
    > a user profile between any of them. Other than that, they all install
    > into separate directories.


    Why cant you share a profile between them? This would be a good thing
    for someone whose been a long time use of Netscape/Mozilla and doesnt
    know if they want to switch. And then I wouldnt have 3 branches to my email.

    >
    > You might want to check out some of the newsgroups listed here:
    >
    > http://edmullen.net/moz.html
    >



    Thanks,
    Daniel
     
    Daniel Steinberg, Nov 4, 2003
    #3
  4. Daniel Steinberg

    Guido Jurock Guest

    Re: To Fly or not to fly? Should I move from Mozilla 1.5 to T-bird and F-bird?

    Daniel Steinberg schrieb:

    > Hi everyone,
    > I've been a long time Mozilla/Netscape user (since about Netscape 2 or 3
    > and Mozilla 0.9.5). I love having my email and browser integrated, and
    > love the Mozilla, I honestly believe it's been the best browser/email
    > program since day 1 of Netscape. Although I have not contributed any


    This:

    > code to Mozilla yet (I have looked at it and got lost after about 5
    > lines, even though I'm at college studying computer and electronics
    > technology and have advanced programming courses),


    Is one of the main reasons to start coding two independent programs.
    Without DOM-inspector and other things that *end*users do not need
    (mormally).

    guido

    --
    Bei der Fußball-WM habe ich mir Österreich gegen Kamerun angeschaut.
    Auf der einen Seite Exoten, fremde Kultur, wilde Riten - und auf der
    anderen Seite: Kamerun! -- Dieter Nuhr
     
    Guido Jurock, Nov 4, 2003
    #4
  5. Daniel Steinberg

    dantu Guest

    Re: To Fly or not to fly? Should I move from Mozilla 1.5 to T-birdand F-bird?

    Guido Jurock wrote:

    >Daniel Steinberg schrieb:
    >
    >
    >
    >>Hi everyone,
    >>I've been a long time Mozilla/Netscape user (since about Netscape 2 or 3
    >>and Mozilla 0.9.5). I love having my email and browser integrated, and
    >>love the Mozilla, I honestly believe it's been the best browser/email
    >>program since day 1 of Netscape. Although I have not contributed any
    >>
    >>

    >
    >This:
    >
    >
    >
    >>code to Mozilla yet (I have looked at it and got lost after about 5
    >>lines, even though I'm at college studying computer and electronics
    >>technology and have advanced programming courses),
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Is one of the main reasons to start coding two independent programs.
    >Without DOM-inspector and other things that *end*users do not need
    >(mormally).
    >
    >guido
    >
    >
    >

    No, the exclusion of some portions of the extant suite is simple. The
    DOM inspector can be added in at a later date, as well as Composer. The
    idea is to focus on one aspect in each 'module'.
     
    dantu, Nov 4, 2003
    #5
  6. Daniel Steinberg

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Re: To Fly or not to fly? Should I move from Mozilla 1.5 to T-birdand F-bird?

    Daniel Steinberg wrote:

    > Ed Mullen wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Daniel Steinberg wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>Hi everyone,
    >>>I've been a long time Mozilla/Netscape user (since about Netscape 2 or 3
    >>>and Mozilla 0.9.5). I love having my email and browser integrated, and
    >>>love the Mozilla, I honestly believe it's been the best browser/email
    >>>program since day 1 of Netscape. Although I have not contributed any
    >>>code to Mozilla yet (I have looked at it and got lost after about 5
    >>>lines, even though I'm at college studying computer and electronics
    >>>technology and have advanced programming courses), I still very much
    >>>know whats going on with Mozilla. But I'm totally confused over the
    >>>reasoning for Thunderbird and Firebird? Whats the point when you already
    >>>have Mozilla? I don't see the point of having two separate programs for
    >>>your browser and email, although it would be great if the browser or
    >>>email portion of the program would remain open if the other crashed, but
    >>>other than that i think they should be integrated.
    >>>If I am wrong should I switch? what would be the advantages and
    >>>disadvantages?
    >>>
    >>>Thanks,
    >>>Daniel Steinberg
    >>>Student in 3rd year Computer Engineering Technology program at Seneca
    >>>College in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >>Daniel,
    >>
    >>Some links to peruse.
    >>
    >>http://www.mozilla.org/
    >>http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firebird/charter.html
    >>http://texturizer.net/firebird/faq.html
    >>http://texturizer.net/thunderbird/faq.html
    >>
    >>In general, the answer to your question "Why?" is:
    >>
    >>1. Improve the efficiency of the code/programs
    >>2. Bring the GUI up to date and more in line with standard Windows
    >>practices

    >
    > Whats not up to date about the GUI now? Not enough annimation in the
    > icons on the toolbars? Naw they are perfect, I much prefer the classic
    > skin to the modern, though I miss having the address bar being its own
    > bar rather than part of the navigation bar, and what ever happened to
    > the "Whats related" button that was in earlier Netscape 4 versions?
    > I thought this was done a few verisons ago when XP style buttons and
    > scroll bars were added?


    The menu structure is being reorganized to be more consistent with
    Windows. Customizing of the toolbars, something people have been asking
    for, is already implemented to a certain degree. I'm not agreeing or
    disagreeing with any of these changes, just making note.
    >
    >
    >>3. Give people an incentive to use Mozilla products without having to
    >>commit to a whole suite and its large code size. This is especially
    >>important for those users already commited to and prefering another
    >>email, browser, composer, or chat client but who might like one of the
    >>other Mozilla options.
    >>
    >>Should you switch? Well, only you can ultimately answer that. The
    >>birds are still pre-release versions so there are quirks, limitations,
    >>bugs, etc. Still, they're pretty good for pre-release programs.
    >>
    >>The good news is that you can install and have resident, even run, all
    >>three (Mozilla, Mozilla Firebird, and Mozilla Thunderbird) at the same
    >>time to try them out and see how you like them. The key is to NOT share
    >>a user profile between any of them. Other than that, they all install
    >>into separate directories.

    >
    >
    > Why cant you share a profile between them? This would be a good thing
    > for someone whose been a long time use of Netscape/Mozilla and doesnt
    > know if they want to switch. And then I wouldnt have 3 branches to my email.


    The main reason is that it leaves the whole profile open to corruption.
    Second reason is that, using separate profiles, you can run all the apps
    simultaneously without conflict. With a shared profile there are
    obvious file permission conflicts if two apps are trying to modify the
    same set of files. Also, since the "Bird" apps are sepearate programs,
    the preference files don't contain (and don't /need/ to contain) each
    other's prefs, thereby keeping them more streamlined. Mozilla puts all
    the prefs for browser, mail, composer, chatzilla, etc. in one prefs
    file. Why have all that stuff in, for instance, a Firebird profile?

    >
    >
    >>You might want to check out some of the newsgroups listed here:
    >>
    >>http://edmullen.net/moz.html
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Daniel
    >



    --
    Ed Mullen - Mozilla Champion
    http://edmullen.net
    http://edmullen.net/moz.html
    If you can survive death, you can probably survive anything.
     
    Ed Mullen, Nov 4, 2003
    #6
  7. Daniel Steinberg

    Keith Bowes Guest

    Re: To Fly or not to fly? Should I move from Mozilla 1.5 to T-birdand F-bird?

    Daniel Steinberg wrote:
    > Ed Mullen wrote:
    >> 2. Bring the GUI up to date and more in line with standard Windows
    >> practices

    >
    > Whats not up to date about the GUI now? Not enough annimation in the
    > icons on the toolbars?


    I think what's meant by that is that Mozilla currently is designed to be
    cross-platform and have a neutral GUI. Firebird, on the other hand, is
    designed to be cross-platform but look like a Windows XP program on all
    platforms.
     
    Keith Bowes, Nov 4, 2003
    #7
  8. Re: To Fly or not to fly? Should I move from Mozilla 1.5 to T-bird and F-bird?

    "Ed Mullen" <> wrote in message
    news:bHFpb.74437$275.197829@attbi_s53...
    > 3. Give people an incentive to use Mozilla products without having to
    > commit to a whole suite and its large code size. This is especially
    > important for those users already commited to and prefering another
    > email, browser, composer, or chat client but who might like one of the
    > other Mozilla options.


    I agree.
    In fact, I stopped using Opera because I was not happy with their new email
    client. I they had had separate applications, I would have probably changed
    only that, and wouldn't have discovered Mozilla :)

    AS
     
    Amedeo Storni, Nov 6, 2003
    #8
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