To all Windows users!!!!!

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Evil Bastard, Aug 22, 2003.

  1. Evil Bastard

    Evil Bastard Guest

    To all people who absolutely must persist with windows and aren't yet
    ready to switch to free open source software:

    Could you PLEASE ALL FIX YOUR SECURITY! Like, NOW!!!!

    1) Don't EVER open an attachment unless you're expecting it and you know
    the sender.

    2) Run a good firewall - ZoneAlarm is a reasonable free one, and there are
    better ones available for payment or via covert channels

    Make sure to block off all incoming and outgoing connections on ports 135
    and 139 at the very least

    3) Please stop using software that promotes infection - software such as
    Outlook, Outlook Express and Internet Explorer.

    Install Pegasus, Eudora, Mozilla or Opera instead.

    I am just so sick and tired of all your freakin viruses chewing up my
    bandwidth and server processor cycles.

    I am even more pissed off when I receive bounce messages accusing me of
    sending viruses that never left my system (new viruses spoofing my email
    address in the From: header.

    Thank you very much in advance.

    Regards
    EB
     
    Evil Bastard, Aug 22, 2003
    #1
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  2. Evil Bastard

    Steve B Guest

    On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:59:10 +1200, "Joe Citizen" <>
    wrote:

    >But if we all switch to open source the virus writers will target it, and
    >you'll be affected too.
    >
    >8)


    There are counters to that argument, such as Apache; 60% market share
    and almost bullet-proof according to those who know it better than I
    do.

    Hard to obtain an unbiased optinion, but FWIW

    www.idg.co.nz/webhome.nsf/UNID/8C0C310C4BBD8A1DCC256D86000DF99B?OpenDocument

    Steve B.
     
    Steve B, Aug 22, 2003
    #2
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  3. Evil Bastard

    Peter Guest

    this quote is from Evil Bastard of Sat, 23 Aug 2003 02:55 :
    >
    > To all people who absolutely must persist with windows and aren't yet
    > ready to switch to free open source software:
    >
    > Could you PLEASE ALL FIX YOUR SECURITY! Like, NOW!!!!


    hear hear ! well said

    Unfortunately, most Windows users do so because they don't know any better.
    For most users, their PC comes with Windos installed, and that's as far as
    they get.

    But you're absolutely right, a good rule of thumb is to avoid Microsoft
    software wherever possible. Just changing to Mozilla, Open Office, Opera,
    et al, will greatly reduce your risk of infection, even if you have to stay
    on the Windos OS.


    Peter
     
    Peter, Aug 22, 2003
    #3
  4. Evil Bastard

    Peter Guest

    this quote is from Joe Citizen of Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:59 :

    > But if we all switch to open source the virus writers will target it, and
    > you'll be affected too.


    That rather shows your ignorance of the topic.

    For one thing, the open source software is far less vulnerable than the
    Microsoft stuff. Open source is not immune, but it is a lot safer than MS.

    Secondly, open source community creates a rich diversity of products. This
    diversity is an inherent obstacle to malware because the virus writer has
    to cope with so many different products (very very difficult). Conversely,
    the monoculture that Microsoft seeks to impose means a virus writer needs
    only to crack one product to wipe out a big portion of the population.

    Fortunately, more people are becoming aware of these facts, and are
    realising that Microsoft is ripping us off. MS is making obscene profits
    peddling substandard goods. In any other consumer product, this would be
    against the law, but somehow MS gets away with it. See ...
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3519276


    Peter
     
    Peter, Aug 22, 2003
    #4

  5. >
    > 3) Please stop using software that promotes infection - software such as
    > Outlook, Outlook Express and Internet Explorer.
    >
    > Install Pegasus, Eudora, Mozilla or Opera instead.
    >


    I have yet to discover a Pegasus user who can either send or receive images
    for our amateur radio newsletter without having to call for help. The
    Pegasus directory names on the top bar are apparently not those that Windows
    uses. I was unable at first go to transfer images received with Pegasus to a
    friend's photo processing program, because I could not find their location
    within Pegasus by using 'Find' in Windows98SE.

    Keep Windows updated, use something like Symantec Systemworks.

    The problems I had with Windows were all self-inflicted, like dodgy
    downloads interrupted halfway.

    Henry
     
    Henry Falkner, Aug 22, 2003
    #5
  6. Evil Bastard

    Rupert Guest


    >
    > Fortunately, more people are becoming aware of these facts, and are
    > realising that Microsoft is ripping us off. MS is making obscene profits
    > peddling substandard goods. In any other consumer product, this would be
    > against the law, but somehow MS gets away with it. See ...


    Wrong there is nothing in the Sales of Good Act or Consumers Guarantee Act
    that Microsoft has violated, indeed it's not actually Microsofts
    responsibility to fixm but rather the trader of the product
     
    Rupert, Aug 22, 2003
    #6
  7. Evil Bastard

    Peter Guest

    this quote is from Rupert of Sat, 23 Aug 2003 08:44 :
    >> Fortunately, more people are becoming aware of these facts, and are
    >> realising that Microsoft is ripping us off. MS is making obscene profits
    >> peddling substandard goods. In any other consumer product, this would be
    >> against the law, but somehow MS gets away with it. See ...

    >
    > Wrong there is nothing in the Sales of Good Act or Consumers Guarantee Act
    > that Microsoft has violated, indeed it's not actually Microsofts
    > responsibility to fixm but rather the trader of the product


    So, you say Microsoft can produce whatever shoddy, bug ridden software they
    like, but it is the poor retailers' responsibility to fix it all up?
    Tell me, does MS give the retailers the source code so that they are able to
    fix it?

    No? I didn't think so.


    Peter
     
    Peter, Aug 22, 2003
    #7
  8. Evil Bastard

    cowboyz Guest

    "Evil Bastard" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    news:pan.2003.08.22.14.55.15.920039@127.0.0.1...
    >
    > To all people who absolutely must persist with windows and aren't yet
    > ready to switch to free open source software:
    >


    I will awitch to open source software as soon as you offer constructive,
    easy to understand help on how to setup the things that I want to do without
    telling me to RTFM.

    --
    "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."
     
    cowboyz, Aug 22, 2003
    #8
  9. "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    news:bi62bf$5ff$...
    >
    >
    > "Evil Bastard" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    > news:pan.2003.08.22.14.55.15.920039@127.0.0.1...
    > >
    > > To all people who absolutely must persist with windows and aren't yet
    > > ready to switch to free open source software:
    > >

    >
    > I will awitch to open source software as soon as you offer constructive,
    > easy to understand help on how to setup the things that I want to do

    without
    > telling me to RTFM.
    >

    Seeing as Windows is so easy in comparison, can you tell me how to turn off
    the tool tips please?
     
    Howard Johnson, Aug 22, 2003
    #9
  10. "Joe Citizen" <> wrote in message
    news:h5r1b.123903$...
    > But if we all switch to open source the virus writers will target it, and
    > you'll be affected too.
    >
    > 8)


    Only partially true. Virus writers may very well target open source
    software.
    Open source is of course a generic term that describes apps written to run
    on Windows as well as other operating systems, so lets assume that this
    poster means free operating systems like Linux and BSD
    But the flaws in Windows which enable viruses to propagate have been caused
    by Microsofts opt in security model, and the identical nature of the
    unsecured default suite of internet applications.
    With Linux some distribution vendors may adopt a similar model for
    convenience and some may be more secure out of the box. Linux installs are
    completely modular and may have nothing in common except the kernel and the
    gnu base.
    Its really down to how the file sharing and internet communication
    applications are set up.
    Windows can be secured without Anti virus products by eliminating the
    fundamental exploits.
    Thats what each Linux distro attempts to do, and the reason for the
    identical security advisories each time one of the open source building
    block apps needs a security update.
    Windows 9x had so many vulnerabilities that the best that could be done was
    to parse incoming code with anti virus software. Windows XP eliminates many
    of the fundamental exploits, so it is a positive step.
     
    Howard Johnson, Aug 22, 2003
    #10
  11. Evil Bastard

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 02:55:16 +1200, Evil Bastard
    <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote:

    >
    >To all people who absolutely must persist with windows and aren't yet
    >ready to switch to free open source software:
    >
    >Could you PLEASE ALL FIX YOUR SECURITY! Like, NOW!!!!
    >
    >1) Don't EVER open an attachment unless you're expecting it and you know
    >the sender.
    >
    >2) Run a good firewall - ZoneAlarm is a reasonable free one, and there are
    >better ones available for payment or via covert channels
    >
    >Make sure to block off all incoming and outgoing connections on ports 135
    >and 139 at the very least
    >
    >3) Please stop using software that promotes infection - software such as
    >Outlook, Outlook Express and Internet Explorer.
    >
    >Install Pegasus, Eudora, Mozilla or Opera instead.
    >
    >I am just so sick and tired of all your freakin viruses chewing up my
    >bandwidth and server processor cycles.
    >
    >I am even more pissed off when I receive bounce messages accusing me of
    >sending viruses that never left my system (new viruses spoofing my email
    >address in the From: header.
    >
    >Thank you very much in advance.
    >

    This post was not "Fair and Balanced".

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Signed and sealed with Great Seal of the Executive
    Council of the Internet, by The Master of The Net.
     
    Enkidu, Aug 22, 2003
    #11
  12. Evil Bastard

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 07:51:45 +1200, Peter <>
    wrote:
    >
    >For one thing, the open source software is far less vulnerable than the
    >Microsoft stuff. Open source is not immune, but it is a lot safer than MS.
    >

    Prove that claim!

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    Signed and sealed with Great Seal of the Executive
    Council of the Internet, by The Master of The Net.
     
    Enkidu, Aug 22, 2003
    #12
  13. Evil Bastard

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 10:12:51 +1200, Lennier
    <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:59:10 +1200, Joe Citizen wrote:
    >
    >> But if we all switch to open source the virus writers will target it,
    >> and you'll be affected too.

    >
    >Due to the security model used by Unix and Linux systems it simply is not
    >possible for a virus to corrupt a *nix system.
    >

    Duh! Wrong!
    >
    >The worst that a user would be able to do would be to delete the contents
    >of their own home directory.
    >

    There have been many Unix exploits that allow the user elevated
    rights. Read BugTrack.
    >
    >But for that virus to delete the contents of their home directory, the
    >user would have to save it to disc, and then run it, asuming that it
    >actually had the necessary permissions to run.
    >

    You're assuming mail delivery of the virus.
    >
    >When using Windows/Outlook, all you have to do is to download your email
    >or look at a website using Windows/Internet Explorer and you can be
    >infected.
    >

    All you need to do on a Linux system is install something that
    contains an exploit. The GNU site was compromised. Pretty much
    anything with its origins there is suspect. But GNU are not the only
    ones. Read Bug Track
    >
    >The prudent person uses Linux.
    >

    The prudent person has a virus checker and patches all the time. In
    the early days of Unix new versions came out daily. For some packages
    they still do. Fergossake, even the old mainframes were patched on a
    monthly basis.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    Signed and sealed with Great Seal of the Executive
    Council of the Internet, by The Master of The Net.
     
    Enkidu, Aug 22, 2003
    #13
  14. Evil Bastard

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 09:49:01 +1200, "Howard Johnson" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >"cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    >news:bi62bf$5ff$...
    >>
    >>
    >> "Evil Bastard" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    >> news:pan.2003.08.22.14.55.15.920039@127.0.0.1...
    >> >
    >> > To all people who absolutely must persist with windows and aren't yet
    >> > ready to switch to free open source software:
    >> >

    >>
    >> I will awitch to open source software as soon as you offer constructive,
    >> easy to understand help on how to setup the things that I want to do

    >without
    >> telling me to RTFM.
    >>

    >Seeing as Windows is so easy in comparison, can you tell me how to turn off
    >the tool tips please?
    >

    In XP, it's Right click desktop, Properties, Appearance, Effects, and
    uncheck the top box.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    Signed and sealed with Great Seal of the Executive
    Council of the Internet, by The Master of The Net.
     
    Enkidu, Aug 23, 2003
    #14
  15. "Evil Bastard" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
    news:pan.2003.08.22.14.55.15.920039@127.0.0.1...
    >
    > To all people who absolutely must persist with windows and aren't yet
    > ready to switch to free open source software:
    >
    > Could you PLEASE ALL FIX YOUR SECURITY! Like, NOW!!!!


    You patronizing ****. If this were a forum dedicated to computer newbies your
    post would be forgivable. In posting here, where users know about firewalls,
    ports, security updates, and viruses, it is an insult. Your lumping of ~all~
    Windows users together is not appreciated, just as it would not be appreciated
    to associate all linux users wiith obnoxious, geekish cliques of lumpen, mean
    spirited 'Free software = freedom' zealots.

    Tony.
     
    Anthony Neville, Aug 23, 2003
    #15
  16. "Lennier" <> wrote in message
    news:pan.2003.08.22.22.57.42.219304@TRACKER...
    > On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 10:19:33 +1200, Howard Johnson wrote:
    >
    > > Windows XP eliminates
    > > many of the fundamental exploits, so it is a positive step.

    >
    > <snigga>
    >
    > Yeah right!


    Right

    Its a multi user OS with file priveleges
    Its much easier to admin and secure.

    >
    > Micro$oft Windows is not worth the money - it is insecure, bug-ridden
    > garbage.


    Most people here killfile ranters like you regardless of whether they use
    linux and/or Windows

    >
    > There is a reason why Unix systems - even after more than 33 years service
    > - are still commonly used in mission-critical areas.


    There are many reasons why Windows systems are commonly used everywhere

    >
    > There is also a good reason why Open Source software has settled on the
    > same security model as Unix.


    Unix doesn't have a "security model".
    Its up to you, you can run with root privileges no login and your root
    directory writeable if you want.
    Its just a kit of tools
    You wouldn't have a clue how to put together a PC installation from scratch
    without a distribution.
    The security administration is done by the distribution vendors.
    >
    > And there is also a good reason why Open Source software came back into
    > existence after years of domination by Micro$oft and it's appallingly bad
    > Windows Applications.


    Its free.
     
    Howard Johnson, Aug 23, 2003
    #16
  17. Evil Bastard

    Gavin Tunney Guest

    On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 02:55:16 +1200, Evil Bastard
    <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote:

    >
    >To all people who absolutely must persist with windows and aren't yet
    >ready to switch to free open source software:
    >
    >Could you PLEASE ALL FIX YOUR SECURITY! Like, NOW!!!!
    >

    <snip>

    You're barking up the wrong tree there. Sobig is one worm that has
    little to do with Microsoft or their software, except it was designed
    for mass distribution so used the most common OS platform. It didn't
    exploit any security hole in the email client or Windows, was merely
    an attachment that users had to run before they could get infected.
    If users are going to blindly run attachments then it doesn't matter
    what OS they're running. When you sit back & work it through it occurs
    that Sobig would likely be just as big a menace if everyone was using
    Linux.

    And incidentally the users who do run attachments are not likely to be
    reading this NG, you're preaching to the already converted here.

    Gavin
     
    Gavin Tunney, Aug 23, 2003
    #17
  18. Evil Bastard

    Peter Guest

    this quote is from Enkidu of Sat, 23 Aug 2003 10:48 :
    > On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 07:51:45 +1200, Peter <>
    > wrote:
    >>For one thing, the open source software is far less vulnerable than the
    >>Microsoft stuff. Open source is not immune, but it is a lot safer than
    >>MS.
    >>

    > Prove that claim!


    Recently, I found a link to a web site that checked your browser and
    reported vulnerabilities. I tried Mozilla and IE, both on Win2k. The site
    reported Mozilla had no vulnerabilities and IE had several. (Sorry, I
    don't have that link with me just now.)

    For another example, MS Word is vulnerable to macro viruses and can be a
    security leak by storing "deleted" text in doc files. AFAIK OpenOffice
    doesn't have either of these faults.

    For another example, there is no virus or worm that an ordinary Linux user
    can get, but a Windows user is constantly at risk from a great number of
    malware. See the recent propagation of sobig.F.

    It would be misleading to say OSS is faultless, or that you need take no
    care to secure and patch OSS software. It's just that OSS appears to be a
    better option at present.

    Peter
     
    Peter, Aug 23, 2003
    #18
  19. Evil Bastard

    Max Burke Guest

    > Peter scribbled:

    >> this quote is from Joe Citizen of Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:59 :


    >> But if we all switch to open source the virus writers will target
    >> it, and you'll be affected too.


    > That rather shows your ignorance of the topic.
    > For one thing, the open source software is far less vulnerable than
    > the Microsoft stuff. Open source is not immune, but it is a lot
    > safer than MS.


    http://www.partyvibe.com/flavour/linux/security.htm
    http://www.linuxsecurity.com/advisories/index.html
    http://www.opennet.ru/base/linux/
    http://www.securityfocus.com/news/19
    http://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/

    > Secondly, open source community creates a rich diversity of products.
    > This diversity is an inherent obstacle to malware because the virus
    > writer has to cope with so many different products (very very
    > difficult). Conversely, the monoculture that Microsoft seeks to
    > impose means a virus writer needs only to crack one product to wipe
    > out a big portion of the population.


    Until OSS/Linux offers the same 'out of the box' experience that the
    average computer owner/user gets from Windows it will never be seen as
    an alternative TO the average computer owner/user.
    The average computer user does NOT want to have to tweak and configure
    the OS and its applications to make them do what they're supposed to do;
    They average computer user WONT do that. They'll just say that's NOT
    what I want to use the computer for. Neither should they have to do
    that.
    And if the OSS/Linux 'community' wont accept that reality and make
    OSS/Linux as easy to use as Windows and it's applications already are
    for the average computer user, then they will condemn OSS/Linux to an
    also ran, not suitable for the average user place in 'computer
    history'....

    > Fortunately, more people are becoming aware of these facts, and are
    > realising that Microsoft is ripping us off.


    Microsoft hasn't ripped me off ever. I have always got real value from
    the purchase and use of their products and services.
    Tell me why you'd buy products and services then whine and bitch that
    you had been ripped off because you 'apparently' paid too much for them?
    Surely you researched, shopped around, and looked for the best product
    or service BEFORE spending your money?
    Or is it that YOU think you have some sort of right to tell companies
    (like Microsoft) what price they can sell their products and services to
    you for?

    > MS is making obscene
    > profits peddling substandard goods.


    No they're not. They make the profits they do make because the majority
    of their customers are ready, willing, and able to buy their products
    and services that WORK as they're supposed to do for those customers, at
    the prices Microsoft offers them for.
    Just because YOU have a problem with Microsoft, doesn't mean *everyone*
    has your problem with Microsoft.

    > In any other consumer product,
    > this would be against the law, but somehow MS gets away with it.


    Hey if YOU have a consumer product from Microsoft that is breaking the
    CGA then why aren't YOU taking them to court, instead of whining and
    bitching in this forum.
    Try the small claims court; If you can prove that you have been sold a
    product by Microsoft that isn't fit for it's stated purpose you might
    get your money back.....
    Good luck Peter, oh and let nz.comp know how it goes OK...... ;-)

    > See
    > ... http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3519276


    Just another reporter writing a story to justify his pay check.
    His 'interpretation' of the NZ computer crimes act doesn't stand up to
    any legal proof as described in that law.
    But hey that didn't stop him writing that opinion piece did it....

    --
    mlvburke@#%&*.net.nz
    Replace the obvious with paradise to email me.
    See Found Images at:
    http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke
     
    Max Burke, Aug 23, 2003
    #19
  20. In article <bi5vcb$3fj$>,
    says...
    >
    > >
    > > Fortunately, more people are becoming aware of these facts, and are
    > > realising that Microsoft is ripping us off. MS is making obscene profits
    > > peddling substandard goods. In any other consumer product, this would be
    > > against the law, but somehow MS gets away with it. See ...

    >
    > Wrong there is nothing in the Sales of Good Act or Consumers Guarantee Act
    > that Microsoft has violated, indeed it's not actually Microsofts
    > responsibility to fixm but rather the trader of the product


    You're wrong, kiddo. It's been put into law that, if the retailer fails
    to take care of their responsibility for whatever reason then the
    wholeseller and the manufacturer are also responsible in NZ. So they
    cannot weasel out of it if the retailer packs up for instance.

    In this case we can only conclude that MS is doing just that by
    publishing memoranda and patches (much as I like to slag them off
    otherwise).

    -P.

    --

    Please note munged reply address - delete the obvious ....
     
    Peter Huebner, Aug 23, 2003
    #20
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