Thunderbird suddenly balks

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by xbigjohn, Aug 8, 2010.

  1. xbigjohn

    xbigjohn Guest

    I have been using Thunderbird for years until a few weeks ago when I
    attempted to forward a message. I got a message that said my password was
    required. I entered my password and now I get another message that says"An
    error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded:
    authentication required."

    I have checked everything I know to check and everything seems to be OK, but
    I still can't send a message. I tried to get help from my ISP (ATT) and they
    tell me they can't help me since I am using Thunderbird.

    Apparently my password has been screwed up. How do I change my password if I
    don't know the old one?

    Can someone please help?? How do I "authenticate"? I can receive mail and do
    everything else, but just can't "send".


    big john
    xbigjohn, Aug 8, 2010
    #1
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  2. xbigjohn

    Mike Yetto Guest

    xbigjohn <> writes and having writ moves on.
    >I have been using Thunderbird for years until a few weeks ago when I
    >attempted to forward a message. I got a message that said my password was
    >required. I entered my password and now I get another message that says"An
    >error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded:
    >authentication required."


    >I have checked everything I know to check and everything seems to be OK, but
    >I still can't send a message. I tried to get help from my ISP (ATT) and they
    >tell me they can't help me since I am using Thunderbird.


    Did this happen shortly after an update of some type? For
    instance, did you update TB or apply fixes to your OS?

    I'm asking so that we can either target or eliminate a bug in TB
    or your version of Windows. Other updates may have caused this
    problem, so keep your search fairly wide.

    >Apparently my password has been screwed up. How do I change my password if I
    >don't know the old one?


    If it turns out that the password was screwed up (not a
    certainty) then the ISP should have a method for letting you know
    what the old one is. However, it probably involves sending an
    e-mail.

    >Can someone please help?? How do I "authenticate"? I can receive mail and do
    >everything else, but just can't "send".


    I'd try using any web-mail frontend the ISP may have. This will
    be a workaround till you fix the problem as well as a test of
    your password.

    Mike "happy hunting" Yetto
    --
    In theory, theory and practice are the same.
    In practice they are not.
    Mike Yetto, Aug 8, 2010
    #2
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  3. xbigjohn

    Mike Easter Guest

    xbigjohn wrote:
    > I have been using Thunderbird for years until a few weeks ago when I
    > attempted to forward a message. I got a message that said my password
    > was required. I entered my password and now I get another message that
    > says"An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded:
    > authentication required."


    The business about getting messages in a mail agent about 'problems'
    with the user/pass or authentication can be caused by -1- problems with
    the user/pass configuration or -2- some other problem with the
    transaction unrelated to user pass.

    That is, the same kind of alert you describe can be triggered by
    non-user/pass conditions.

    > I have checked everything I know to check and everything seems to be OK,
    > but I still can't send a message. I tried to get help from my ISP (ATT)
    > and they tell me they can't help me since I am using Thunderbird.


    The best way to troubleshoot a client/server transaction problem is to
    do it 'by hand' by being familiar with the client/server transactions
    and to access the server with a tool like telnet.

    On Windows, the first strategy I would employ would be to access the
    provider's status page to see if there were any problems on record - but
    you have supposedly filled that gap by contacting the provider's tech by
    another channel. Many techs these days are very incompetent and don't
    know how to troubleshoot anything on their end and don't know the first
    thing which isn't outlined in their cookbook.

    So, I would consider that you don't know the status of the mailserver
    yet since the tech probably doesn't know either.

    On windows after checking the status page, I would use IDServe to
    contact the server on its appropriate port to see if it IDs, then I
    would use telnet to contact the server and authenticate with my user/pass.

    Then I would recheck all my configs in my Tbird and if I couldn't figure
    it out, I would create a new account in Tbird to do the job.

    > Apparently my password has been screwed up.


    Not necessarily.

    > How do I change my password
    > if I don't know the old one?


    Huh? How could you not know your password? That condition needs to be
    remedied immediately. You are not going to be able to investigate this
    problem at all if you don't know your user/pass.

    Tbird in normal working order can show you your user/pass configuration.

    > Can someone please help?? How do I "authenticate"? I can receive mail
    > and do everything else, but just can't "send".


    Are we talking about the yahoo mailserver or something else?


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Aug 8, 2010
    #3
  4. xbigjohn

    Mike Easter Guest

    Mike Easter wrote:
    > xbigjohn wrote:

    X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197

    >> I have been using Thunderbird for years


    You are news posting here with Vista WM. Which v. of Tbird are you using
    for mail?

    > Tbird in normal working order can show you your user/pass configuration.


    Tell me your Tbird version and whether or not we are talking about a
    normal non-Plus yahoo account or something else.


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Aug 8, 2010
    #4
  5. xbigjohn

    VanguardLH Guest

    xbigjohn wrote:

    > I have been using Thunderbird for years until a few weeks ago when I
    > attempted to forward a message. I got a message that said my password
    > was required. I entered my password and now I get another message
    > that says"An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server
    > responded: authentication required."


    Did you try using the webmail interface to your e-mail account to make
    sure you or perhaps someone else (friend, enemy, hacker) didn't crack
    into your account to change its login credentials?

    > How do I change my password if I don't know the old one?


    Contact your UNIDENTIFIED e-mail provider. Or use their "Forgot
    Password" link on their webmail client's login page (you'll need to
    know what personal info you gave to supply it during their process to
    send you a new password or reset it - assuming the hacker hasn't
    changed that, too).

    > Can someone please help?? How do I "authenticate"? I can receive mail
    > and do everything else, but just can't "send".


    Hmm, that could be because your UNIDENTIFIED e-mail provider now
    requires that you configure your local e-mail client to authenticate to
    their SMTP mail server. This is a security measure to ensure you have
    permission to use their outbound SMTP mail server (rather than rely on
    reusing within a few minutes the login you gave previously for the
    inbound POP/IMAP mail server).

    I don't use Thunderbird but seem to recall that you define one SMTP
    server used by all accounts but can add more of them. That is, unlike
    other e-mail clients, the POP/IMAP and SMTP servers are seperate
    definitions in TBird rather than being defined and grouped together
    within the same account. So go to your SMTP account(s) to have it
    authenticate (login) to your SMTP mail server(s).
    VanguardLH, Aug 8, 2010
    #5
  6. xbigjohn

    Mike Easter Guest

    VanguardLH wrote:

    > I don't use Thunderbird but seem to recall that you define one SMTP
    > server used by all accounts but can add more of them. That is, unlike
    > other e-mail clients, the POP/IMAP and SMTP servers are seperate
    > definitions in TBird rather than being defined and grouped together
    > within the same account.


    In Tbirds 2 & 3 (2.0.x thru' 3.1.2 the present), each mail account's
    configuration has a designated outgoing smtp server.

    If there are multiple accounts which can thus cause there to be multiple
    different outgoing servers 'here and there', any given account's
    outgoing server 'menu' can optionally select any of those outgoing servers.

    In addition, Tbird has an identities section which provides for
    configuring any outgoing server there.

    IMO Tbird's 'problem' with these account *creations* are the ways the
    Tbirds since 3 have 'automated' the function of account creation, which
    automation actually makes the process *more* difficult for an
    experienced mail account configurator.

    The automation was designed to make it simpler for some tiny subset of
    inexperienced users and it is a very poor implementation with strong
    adverse consequences in some not unusual circumstances.

    That is, such a common scenario as a new Tbird user who has an existing
    gmail account with some thousands of messages in it.

    The combination of Tbird making the gmail account automatically IMAP
    coupled with the Tbird 3 having default indexing and synchronization
    turned on.


    http://perfprotector.blogspot.com/2010/08/thunderbird-3-is-it-really-all-yours.html
    What went wrong from version 2 to 3? How bad it is? - Thunderbird 3 CPU
    utilization is ... 100 times more than Thunderbird 2. In addition,
    during long periods of time, Thunderbird 3 used more than 50% of the
    overall CPU resources


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Aug 8, 2010
    #6
  7. xbigjohn

    VanguardLH Guest

    Mike Easter wrote:

    > VanguardLH wrote:
    >
    >> I don't use Thunderbird but seem to recall that you define one SMTP
    >> server used by all accounts but can add more of them. That is, unlike
    >> other e-mail clients, the POP/IMAP and SMTP servers are seperate
    >> definitions in TBird rather than being defined and grouped together
    >> within the same account.

    >
    > In Tbirds 2 & 3 (2.0.x thru' 3.1.2 the present), each mail account's
    > configuration has a designated outgoing smtp server.
    >
    > If there are multiple accounts which can thus cause there to be multiple
    > different outgoing servers 'here and there', any given account's
    > outgoing server 'menu' can optionally select any of those outgoing servers.


    That's what I meant to illustrate by showing Tbird separately defines
    the inbound and outbound servers, like they were separate accounts. I
    neglected to mention that you specify in the inbound account as to which
    outbound server/account it will use. I remember it took a very short
    learning curve when I trialed Tbird to realize how they separately
    define but then link up the inbound and outbound accounts.

    > IMO Tbird's 'problem' with these account *creations* are the ways the
    > Tbirds since 3 have 'automated' the function of account creation, which
    > automation actually makes the process *more* difficult for an
    > experienced mail account configurator.


    As I recall, there was a button to let the user choose to do a manual
    configuration of the account. If that's gone then the user has to use
    their wizard and then go manually edit the account.
    VanguardLH, Aug 8, 2010
    #7
  8. xbigjohn

    Mike Easter Guest

    VanguardLH wrote:
    > Mike Easter wrote:


    >> IMO Tbird's 'problem' with these account *creations* are the ways the
    >> Tbirds since 3 have 'automated' the function of account creation, which
    >> automation actually makes the process *more* difficult for an
    >> experienced mail account configurator.

    >
    > As I recall, there was a button to let the user choose to do a manual
    > configuration of the account. If that's gone then the user has to use
    > their wizard and then go manually edit the account.


    If you 'catch' Tbird before it completes a 'step' in the creation
    process you can stop it from creating the wrong kind of account and do
    it - what you want - manually. If you don't (successfully intervene
    during that transitory period which is extremely short on a broadband
    connection), you cannot change the account's type from one to another --
    ie you cannot change an IMAP account (which Tbird wanted to create in
    its own idealized shape) to a POP.

    Tbird can be manually configured if reined in under user control, but it
    doesn't want to be so configured and it is very very slippery when
    trying to rein it in. Tbird does *not* need the user's 'approval' to
    proceed with a non-manual configuration.


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Aug 8, 2010
    #8
  9. xbigjohn

    Mike Easter Guest

    Mike Easter wrote:
    > VanguardLH wrote:


    >> As I recall, there was a button to let the user choose to do a manual
    >> configuration of the account. If that's gone then the user has to use
    >> their wizard and then go manually edit the account.

    >
    > If you 'catch' Tbird before it completes a 'step' in the creation
    > process you can stop it from creating the wrong kind of account and do
    > it - what you want - manually. If you don't (successfully intervene
    > during that transitory period which is extremely short on a broadband
    > connection), you cannot change the account's type from one to another --
    > ie you cannot change an IMAP account (which Tbird wanted to create in
    > its own idealized shape) to a POP.
    >
    > Tbird can be manually configured if reined in under user control, but it
    > doesn't want to be so configured and it is very very slippery when
    > trying to rein it in. Tbird does *not* need the user's 'approval' to
    > proceed with a non-manual configuration.


    I just created a new account in the newest 3.1.2. The rescue of the new
    account creation misdirection has been simplified/improved.

    Previously, if you could not 'stop' Tbird quickly enough, there was
    nothing else you could do to prevent the wrong account creation such as
    IMAP instead of POP which imap can't be changed to pop.

    Now, even if the 'stop' opportunity has fled (because the process has
    moved beyond 'stop') there is still an 'edit' escape. The edit function
    leads to a menu where you can fix anything or manually create the
    account - eg not create an IMAP account if you wanted a POP.

    Of course you still can't change a created IMAP account to a POP one.


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Aug 8, 2010
    #9
  10. xbigjohn

    xbigjohn Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Mike Easter wrote:
    >> xbigjohn wrote:

    > X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
    >
    >>> I have been using Thunderbird for years

    >
    > You are news posting here with Vista WM. Which v. of Tbird are you using
    > for mail?


    Was using T'bird ver.3.0.6 - Normal non-plus Yahoo account.

    Since I can't send in T'bird, I went to Vista WM for all mail, but want to
    get back to T'bird.

    What would the implications be if I just deleted the old T'bird account and
    opened new one, other than a new address


    >> Tbird in normal working order can show you your user/pass configuration.

    >
    > Tell me your Tbird version and whether or not we are talking about a
    > normal non-Plus yahoo account or something else.



    >
    >
    > --
    > Mike Easter
    xbigjohn, Aug 8, 2010
    #10
  11. xbigjohn

    xbigjohn Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Mike Easter wrote:
    >> xbigjohn wrote:

    > X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197
    >
    >>> I have been using Thunderbird for years

    >
    > You are news posting here with Vista WM. Which v. of Tbird are you using
    > for mail?
    >> Tbird in normal working order can show you your user/pass configuration.


    Obviously, my T'bird is not working in normal order. I went to the user/pass
    configuration and it does not show. What are the implications of my just
    cancelling the account in question and creating a new account?
    >
    > Tell me your Tbird version and whether or not we are talking about a
    > normal non-Plus yahoo account or something else.


    Trying to use T'bird V. 3.0.6 and normal non-plus Yahoo account.

    >
    >
    > --
    > Mike Easter
    xbigjohn, Aug 8, 2010
    #11
  12. xbigjohn

    Mike Easter Guest

    xbigjohn wrote:
    > "Mike Easter"


    >> Which v. of Tbird are you
    >> using for mail?

    >
    > Was using T'bird ver.3.0.6 - Normal non-plus Yahoo account.


    Tbird has had 3 forks of its development evolving, the 2.0.x, the 3.0.x
    and the 3.1.x and they differ from each other. I am not a Tbird
    developer and I cannot 'keep up' with the configuration strategies in
    all of them.

    Presently I can only access a working Tb 2.0.0.24 and a Tb 3.1.2 and
    describe how to properly configure those 2 versions for regular yahoo
    smtp. That may differ slightly from any 3.0.x

    > What would the implications be if I just deleted the old T'bird account
    > and opened new one, other than a new address


    You don't even have to use a new address if you have the user/pass for
    the old one. You can make a new Tbird account or fix your old smtp
    settings/configuration.

    In Win Tb 3.1.2 (and possibly 3.0.x), you see/access the user/pass in
    (select account) Tools/ Options/ Security section/ Passwords tab/ Saved
    password button/ find site in list - use show passwords button - read
    username and password

    The other important configuration consideration for a smtp server is to
    use Tools/ Account settings/ and in the left column pane, use the slider
    to go all the way to the bottom and select Outgoing server.

    That will cause the R pane to present 'Outgoing Server settings' and on
    my system there is a list of outgoing servers and the ability to add or
    edit.

    Select the yahoo server and click the Edit button. There you can give
    the server a descriptive name which I usually make short, give the name
    of the server which in this case is smtp.mail.yahoo.com and the port
    which is 25 and the connection security which is SSL/TLS (instead of
    none) and the authentication method which is 'normal password' and the
    username which is *not* the entire yahoo address but just the user part
    to the left of the @.




    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Aug 9, 2010
    #12
  13. xbigjohn

    Mike Easter Guest

    Mike Easter wrote:

    > Select the yahoo server and click the Edit button. There you can give
    > the server a descriptive name which I usually make short, give the name
    > of the server which in this case is smtp.mail.yahoo.com and the port
    > which is 25


    yahoo recommends that if 25 doesn't work, to use 465; some sites say
    that is the primary choice

    > and the connection security which is SSL/TLS (instead of
    > none) and the authentication method which is 'normal password' and the
    > username which is *not* the entire yahoo address but just the user part
    > to the left of the @.




    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Aug 9, 2010
    #13
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