Those of you with ATA adaptors

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by ~Gifted~, Jan 5, 2006.

  1. ~Gifted~

    ~Gifted~ Guest

    Hi

    If you have an ATA adaptor, as opposed to a router with VOIP ports, how do
    you manage Quality of Service to ensure that your calls audio doesn't
    stutter?

    Thanks
     
    ~Gifted~, Jan 5, 2006
    #1
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  2. ~Gifted~

    Brian A Guest

    On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 21:23:10 -0000, "~Gifted~" <~~> wrote:

    >Hi
    >
    >If you have an ATA adaptor, as opposed to a router with VOIP ports, how do
    >you manage Quality of Service to ensure that your calls audio doesn't
    >stutter?
    >
    >Thanks
    >

    The QoS can only be determined by the router that you have your ATA
    plugged into. It is not a property of the ATA. If your router doesn't
    have QoS then you are stuck.
    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
     
    Brian A, Jan 5, 2006
    #2
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  3. ~Gifted~

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "Brian A" <> wrote in message
    news:
    > On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 21:23:10 -0000, "~Gifted~"
    > <~~> wrote:
    >
    > > Hi
    > >
    > > If you have an ATA adaptor, as opposed to a router with
    > > VOIP ports, how do you manage Quality of Service to
    > > ensure that your calls audio doesn't stutter?
    > >
    > > Thanks
    > >

    > The QoS can only be determined by the router that you
    > have your ATA plugged into. It is not a property of the
    > ATA. If your router doesn't have QoS then you are stuck.


    What he said..!

    Ivor
     
    Ivor Jones, Jan 5, 2006
    #3
  4. ~Gifted~

    ~Gifted~ Guest

    "~Gifted~" <~~> wrote in message
    news:D...
    > Hi
    >
    > If you have an ATA adaptor, as opposed to a router with VOIP ports, how do
    > you manage Quality of Service to ensure that your calls audio doesn't
    > stutter?
    >
    > Thanks


    Okay rephrase the question as it was misinterpreted.

    what I meant was, what rule do you set in your router's QOS admin page for
    the VOIP adaptor?
     
    ~Gifted~, Jan 5, 2006
    #4
  5. In article <>,
    "~Gifted~" <~~> writes:
    > Hi
    >
    > If you have an ATA adaptor, as opposed to a router with VOIP ports, how do
    > you manage Quality of Service to ensure that your calls audio doesn't
    > stutter?


    I had never noticed any dropout (and my routers don't take any notice
    of QoS), but I just tried a test, ftping a large file each way
    between two ADSL hosts whilst also talking on the phone between
    them. There was a little dropout, but I suspect neither of us would
    have noticed it if we hadn't been specifically listening out for it.
    This was between a 2Mbit/s and a 1Mbit/s ADSL lines on same ISP (AAISP),
    both SPA-3000 ATA's, and Solaris x86 router/firewalls at each end (one
    of them running on an anchient 486/66 PC) plus ADSL router/modems at
    each end.

    --
    Andrew Gabriel
     
    Andrew Gabriel, Jan 5, 2006
    #5
  6. ~Gifted~

    Jono Guest

    ~Gifted~ wrote:
    || "~Gifted~" <~~> wrote in message
    || news:D...
    ||| Hi
    |||
    ||| If you have an ATA adaptor, as opposed to a router with VOIP ports,
    ||| how do you manage Quality of Service to ensure that your calls
    ||| audio doesn't stutter?

    Throtle downloads, or at least I do, if necessary.

    |||
    ||| Thanks
    ||
    || Okay rephrase the question as it was misinterpreted.

    .......hmm. Perhaps the question was mis-represented ;-)

    ||
    || what I meant was, what rule do you set in your router's QOS admin
    || page for the VOIP adaptor?

    Are you asking general questions, or do you want an answer to your specific
    situation? If specific help is needed, let us know whether you have an ATA
    plugged into a non-VoIP router, or a VoIP router with QOS.
     
    Jono, Jan 5, 2006
    #6
  7. ~Gifted~

    Tim Bray Guest

    ~Gifted~ wrote:
    > what I meant was, what rule do you set in your router's QOS admin page for
    > the VOIP adaptor?


    Usually the IP address of the ATA.

    Tim
     
    Tim Bray, Jan 6, 2006
    #7
  8. ~Gifted~

    Martin² Guest

    ~Gifted:
    >what rule do you set in your router's QOS admin page for the VOIP adaptor?


    That will depend on the router.
    Draytek lets you select priority for selected packet types, i.e. you can set
    SIP packets to take 70% of bandwidth (recommended setting).
    The QoS setup page(s) aren't at all obvious and the instructions are NOT in
    the manual and hard to find on their web pages !

    Zyxel 2602HW/L is much simpler, listed in manual, IIRC you just select QoS
    for VoIP.
    Regards,
    Martin
     
    Martin², Jan 6, 2006
    #8
  9. ~Gifted~

    Paul Hayes Guest

    ~Gifted~ wrote:
    > Hi
    >
    > If you have an ATA adaptor, as opposed to a router with VOIP ports, how do
    > you manage Quality of Service to ensure that your calls audio doesn't
    > stutter?
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    >

    well in my case my router (an Intertex IX67) has a SIP alg and all that
    is required is to enter in the upstream & downstream speeds. It then
    just makes sure enough bandwidth is available for calls by throttling
    back other traffic (obviously only until you try to put more calls
    through than your Internet bandwidth will allow). If you use the VoIP
    ports on the router it'll also chose low bandwidth codecs if you're
    running out of bandwidth too. It's a godsend really on my NTL
    connection where the upstream speed is 128k at best, I've seen it as low
    as 50kbps!

    If the router isn't SIP aware then set the ATA on a static IP &
    prioritise any traffic going to & from that IP address.
     
    Paul Hayes, Jan 6, 2006
    #9
  10. ~Gifted~

    Jono Guest

    "Paul Hayes" <> wrote in message
    news:43be3727$0$87299$...

    >
    > If the router isn't SIP aware


    Any inexpensive ones available for cable broadband? (ideally with a USB
    print server.)

    I'm told that the Vigor 2900 has SIP ALG (From their tech support "The
    telnet command is ' sys sip_alg 1 '")

    Unfortunately, DrayTek seem unable to confirm that the 2900 will or won't
    break my setup, using asterisk.
     
    Jono, Jan 6, 2006
    #10
  11. ~Gifted~

    Guest

    On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 02:52:32 -0000, "Martin²" <> wrote:

    >Draytek lets you select priority for selected packet types, i.e. you can set
    >SIP packets to take 70% of bandwidth (recommended setting).


    How do you select the packet type for SIP? I've had to use IP
    addresses.

    >The QoS setup page(s) aren't at all obvious and the instructions are NOT in
    >the manual and hard to find on their web pages !


    I'm not even convinced that I have done. What I found there wasn't
    really a lot of help.
    --
    Visit the Hairydog Guide to Mobile Phones
    http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
     
    , Jan 6, 2006
    #11
  12. ~Gifted~

    Joe Harrison Guest

    I have a bog-standard Linksys WRT54G bought from Amazon about 40 quid IIRC.
    This doesn't do QoS so I reflashed it with the Sveasoft firmware. Works a
    treat now, you can select 4 levels of relative priority
    (premium/high/normal/bulk) either by traffic type or by MAC address.
     
    Joe Harrison, Jan 6, 2006
    #12
  13. ~Gifted~

    Martin² Guest

    Hairydog:
    >How do you select the packet type for SIP? I've had to use IP
    >addresses.


    Aaah, that's the secret...,
    but as you know anything I say is rubbish ;-)
    Martin
     
    Martin², Jan 7, 2006
    #13
  14. ~Gifted~

    Guest

    How on earth do you setup QoS on the drayteks? I have class 1 setup to
    have 97% of the bandwidth and the only rule is that of the SIP ATA in
    the source address box. The router QoS graphs show that the traffic is
    in class 1 but any heavy downloading makes the VoIP call break up.

    However, I tried this with 2 computers downloading at the same time
    (from different FTP servers), one pc was prioritised. When this PC was
    downloading the download on the other pc (not prioritised) slowed down
    to 5k/s which seems correct and the prioritised PC was downloading at
    220-230k/s. If I turned off QoS they both downloaded at roughly 100k/s.

    So does the QoS feature only work on TCP connections and not UDP things
    like VoIP?
     
    , Jan 7, 2006
    #14
  15. ~Gifted~

    Guest

    On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 01:21:12 -0000, "Martin²" <> wrote:

    > but as you know anything I say is rubbish ;-)


    Indeed, that does seem to be the case.
    --
    Visit the Hairydog Guide to Mobile Phones
    http://www.hairydog.co.uk/cell1.html
     
    , Jan 7, 2006
    #15
  16. ~Gifted~

    Mark Adamson Guest

    WARNING before you get a WRT54G

    "Joe Harrison" <> wrote in message
    news:wuCvf.30243$...
    >I have a bog-standard Linksys WRT54G bought from Amazon about 40 quid IIRC.
    > This doesn't do QoS so I reflashed it with the Sveasoft firmware. Works a
    > treat now, you can select 4 levels of relative priority
    > (premium/high/normal/bulk) either by traffic type or by MAC address.
    >


    Just a warning for anybody who gets a WRT54G wanting to use the alternative
    firmwares (which are very good!):

    If you buy a WRT54G now, you may receive a version 5, which no longer has
    linux on and has less RAM, therefore you will not be able to use alternative
    firmwares on it.

    So, either buy one second hand that is not v5, buy one from a shop that can
    check the version, or buy a WRT54GL (L for linux). Annoyingly the WRT54GL
    has been hyked to about £70 cf. £40 for the exact same thing 2 months
    ago.... grrr

    Mark
     
    Mark Adamson, Jan 7, 2006
    #16
  17. ~Gifted~

    PeterW Guest

    "" <> wrote in
    news::

    > How on earth do you setup QoS on the drayteks? I have class 1 setup to
    > have 97% of the bandwidth and the only rule is that of the SIP ATA in
    > the source address box. The router QoS graphs show that the traffic is
    > in class 1 but any heavy downloading makes the VoIP call break up.
    >
    > However, I tried this with 2 computers downloading at the same time
    > (from different FTP servers), one pc was prioritised. When this PC was
    > downloading the download on the other pc (not prioritised) slowed down
    > to 5k/s which seems correct and the prioritised PC was downloading at
    > 220-230k/s. If I turned off QoS they both downloaded at roughly 100k/s.
    >
    > So does the QoS feature only work on TCP connections and not UDP things
    > like VoIP?
    >
    >


    Not sure about Drayteks specifically (as I have a ZyXEL P660HW-61 which
    also has QoS), however for downloads, I believe the only way an end-user
    router can control the bandwidth is to drop packets.

    All you can do is set the TCP (Proto 6) download rate to about 75-80% of
    maximum and let the router drop the rest. TCP will re-adjust automatically
    and leave you some headroom for UDP (Proto 17). What you are aiming to do
    is avoid packets queuing up at the ISP's router. Dropping TCP packets
    causes the protocol to re-send in the short-term, but it gets the idea that
    it is sending too fast and slows down, thus the queues upstream start to
    disappear. This is what then allows your UDP VoIP packets to get through
    with a lot less delay and with a bit of bandwidth reserved.

    For upload, your router is in full control, so you can define your UDP
    bandwidth and priority and the router will act on what you set. You can
    also set the QoS bits.

    Hope this helps

    Peter
     
    PeterW, Jan 8, 2006
    #17
  18. Re: WARNING before you get a WRT54G

    On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 13:56:09 -0000, "Mark Adamson"
    <> wrote:

    >If you buy a WRT54G now, you may receive a version 5, which no longer has
    >linux on and has less RAM, therefore you will not be able to use alternative
    >firmwares on it.
    >
    >So, either buy one second hand that is not v5, buy one from a shop that can
    >check the version, or buy a WRT54GL (L for linux). Annoyingly the WRT54GL
    >has been hyked to about £70 cf. £40 for the exact same thing 2 months
    >ago.... grrr


    so buy a WRT54GS instead which hasn't had the v5 treatment and has the
    go faster wireless too.

    DD-WRT has a voip build, I see (to stay on topic)

    Phil
    --

    Usenet spam eaten by a Hamster http://www.tglsoft.de/
    No more cable clowns :))
    Please do not feed or re-quote the trolls.
     
    Phil Thompson, Jan 8, 2006
    #18
  19. ~Gifted~

    Jono Guest

    Re: WARNING before you get a WRT54G

    "Phil Thompson" <> wrote in message
    >
    > so buy a WRT54GS instead which hasn't had the v5 treatment and has the
    > go faster wireless too.
    >
    > DD-WRT has a voip build, I see (to stay on topic)
    >
    > Phil
    > --
    >
    > Usenet spam eaten by a Hamster http://www.tglsoft.de/
    > No more cable clowns :))
    > Please do not feed or re-quote the trolls.


    Any idea if the WRT54GSUK can be used with OpenWRT? ie. can VoipQOS be set
    up?
     
    Jono, Jan 8, 2006
    #19
  20. ~Gifted~

    Tim Bray Guest

    Jono wrote:
    > I'm told that the Vigor 2900 has SIP ALG (From their tech support "The
    > telnet command is ' sys sip_alg 1 '")


    It does. But it always seems to break things. I always turn it off.

    Tim
     
    Tim Bray, Jan 9, 2006
    #20
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