This would be cool, for online banking.

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by news.xtra.co.nz, Sep 6, 2005.

  1. If , you could use online banking to drill down and view the receipt
    details on your transactions - or , even download xml receipts from your
    online banking service. For eft-pos, and other bills such as telecom.

    Then if IRD to make these acceptable for tax information-digital
    certificates could be used to authenticate the transactions. They could even
    code the transaction categories to be say 'PETROL' , 'STATIONERY' etc....

    With the right software this would reduce my compliance costs hugely, and my
    accounting bills. Even depreciation could be calculated automatically using
    the correct coding systems.
    news.xtra.co.nz, Sep 6, 2005
    #1
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  2. news.xtra.co.nz wrote:
    > If , you could use online banking to drill down and view the receipt
    > details on your transactions - or , even download xml receipts from your
    > online banking service. For eft-pos, and other bills such as telecom.
    >
    > Then if IRD to make these acceptable for tax information-digital
    > certificates could be used to authenticate the transactions. They could even
    > code the transaction categories to be say 'PETROL' , 'STATIONERY' etc....
    >
    > With the right software this would reduce my compliance costs hugely, and my
    > accounting bills. Even depreciation could be calculated automatically using
    > the correct coding systems.


    This makes way too much sense... it'll never happen.

    --
    http://dave.net.nz <- My personal site.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 6, 2005
    #2
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  3. news.xtra.co.nz

    Shane Guest

    On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 12:22:43 +1200, Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:

    > news.xtra.co.nz wrote:
    >> If , you could use online banking to drill down and view the receipt
    >> details on your transactions - or , even download xml receipts from your
    >> online banking service. For eft-pos, and other bills such as telecom.
    >>
    >> Then if IRD to make these acceptable for tax information-digital
    >> certificates could be used to authenticate the transactions. They could
    >> even code the transaction categories to be say 'PETROL' , 'STATIONERY'
    >> etc....
    >>
    >> With the right software this would reduce my compliance costs hugely,
    >> and my accounting bills. Even depreciation could be calculated
    >> automatically using the correct coding systems.

    >
    > This makes way too much sense... it'll never happen.


    http://www.myob.co.nz/About MYOB/Media/1256.aspx

    if this isnt what you want, I can whip something up in perl that will log
    into the banks website, grab the data you want, and spit it out how you
    want
    :)

    --
    Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked

    The best way to get the right answer on usenet is to post the wrong one.
    Shane, Sep 6, 2005
    #3
  4. Shane wrote:
    >>>With the right software this would reduce my compliance costs hugely,
    >>>and my accounting bills. Even depreciation could be calculated
    >>>automatically using the correct coding systems.


    >>This makes way too much sense... it'll never happen.


    > http://www.myob.co.nz/About MYOB/Media/1256.aspx
    > if this isnt what you want, I can whip something up in perl that will log
    > into the banks website, grab the data you want, and spit it out how you
    > want
    > :)


    sure, here's my username and password.../kidding.

    thats pretty cool, what I meant was that the banks wont come up with it.

    --
    http://dave.net.nz <- My personal site.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 6, 2005
    #4
  5. news.xtra.co.nz

    Harry Guest

    news.xtra.co.nz wrote:

    > If , you could use online banking to drill down and view the receipt
    > details on your transactions - or , even download xml receipts from your
    > online banking service. For eft-pos, and other bills such as telecom.
    >
    > Then if IRD to make these acceptable for tax information-digital
    > certificates could be used to authenticate the transactions. They could
    > even code the transaction categories to be say 'PETROL' , 'STATIONERY'
    > etc....
    >
    > With the right software this would reduce my compliance costs hugely, and
    > my accounting bills. Even depreciation could be calculated automatically
    > using the correct coding systems.


    This is already available in Australia.
    You get a choice of format for the download. Most formats suite
    popular accounting packages, and most are xml. But csv is also available.
    Harry, Sep 6, 2005
    #5
  6. news.xtra.co.nz

    Alan Guest

    "news.xtra.co.nz" <> wrote in
    message news:_55Te.9093$...
    >
    > If , you could use online banking to drill down and view the
    > receipt details on your transactions - or , even download xml
    > receipts from your online banking service.
    > For eft-pos, and other bills such as telecom.
    >
    > Then if IRD to make these acceptable for tax information-digital
    > certificates could be used to authenticate the transactions. They
    > could even code the transaction categories to be say 'PETROL' ,
    > 'STATIONERY' etc....
    >
    > With the right software this would reduce my compliance costs
    > hugely,
    > and my accounting bills. Even depreciation could be calculated
    > automatically using the correct coding systems
    >
    >


    This is already available and has been for some time now (called
    BankLink / BankConnet - different providers). Most of the banks can
    do it (top 10 at least I think).

    What are you paying annually in accounting fees? You can probably
    save some or get much better value / benefits for what you are
    currently paying.

    Alan.
    Alan, Sep 6, 2005
    #6
  7. "Alan" <> wrote in message
    news:kB6Te.9119$...
    > "news.xtra.co.nz" <> wrote in
    > message news:_55Te.9093$...
    >>
    >> If , you could use online banking to drill down and view the
    >> receipt details on your transactions - or , even download xml
    >> receipts from your online banking service.
    >> For eft-pos, and other bills such as telecom.
    >>
    >> Then if IRD to make these acceptable for tax information-digital
    >> certificates could be used to authenticate the transactions. They
    >> could even code the transaction categories to be say 'PETROL' ,
    >> 'STATIONERY' etc....
    >>
    >> With the right software this would reduce my compliance costs
    >> hugely,
    >> and my accounting bills. Even depreciation could be calculated
    >> automatically using the correct coding systems
    >>
    >>

    >
    > This is already available and has been for some time now (called
    > BankLink / BankConnet - different providers). Most of the banks can
    > do it (top 10 at least I think).
    >
    > What are you paying annually in accounting fees? You can probably
    > save some or get much better value / benefits for what you are
    > currently paying.
    >
    > Alan.
    >

    Hey interesting stuff. One of my compliance costs is the record keeping
    aspect. eg, IRD insists on having hardcopy bank statements/receipts but I
    think it should be possible to have digitally signed documents instead.

    eg, if I made an eft-pos purchase using my business account which consists
    of some mixed personal/business items. I would not nessarily need to take a
    receipt - I could log onto the internet banking, view the itemisation items
    on the receipt flag the items on the receipt that personal items as such.
    The GST component of the charge could also be seen, which would also assist
    with the GST returns.

    And, everything would be downloadable into accounting software of course.
    news.xtra.co.nz, Sep 6, 2005
    #7
  8. news.xtra.co.nz

    Alan Guest

    "news.xtra.co.nz" <> wrote in message
    news:z87Te.9123$...
    >
    > Hey interesting stuff. One of my compliance costs is the record
    > keeping aspect. eg, IRD insists on having hardcopy bank
    > statements/receipt but I
    > think it should be possible to have digitally signed documents
    > instead.
    >


    Well, the ETA 2002 states:

    "18.Legal requirement that information be in writing-

    A legal requirement that information be in writing is met by
    information that is in electronic form if the information is readily
    accessible so as to be usable for subsequent reference.

    19.Legal requirement to record information in writing-

    A legal requirement that information be recorded in writing is met by
    recording the information in electronic form if the information is
    readily accessible so as to be usable for subsequent reference."

    However, that doesn't mean that some other act says that there are
    exceptions (for tax records perhaps!)

    Also, I am not a lawyer, so you will have to interpret those sections
    for yourself.

    Finally, I am not sure whether the ETA 2002 has actually passed into
    law. It seems to have had a third reading, but may not have come into
    force if the Governor-General by Order in Council hasn't yet appointed
    a date.

    >
    > eg, if I made an eft-pos purchase using my business account which
    > consists of some mixed personal/business items. I would not
    > nessarily need to take a receipt - I could log onto the internet
    > banking, view the itemisation items on the receipt flag the items
    > on the receipt that personal items as such.
    > The GST component of the charge could also be seen, which would also
    > assist with the GST returns.
    >


    I think you would need to have available a copy of the entire receipt
    (digitally perhaps depending on the above) and be able to identify the
    business / non-business expenses thereon.

    >
    > And, everything would be downloadable into accounting software of
    > course.
    >


    Of course!

    One step at a time...

    Alan.
    Alan, Sep 6, 2005
    #8
  9. news.xtra.co.nz

    Kent Smith Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > news.xtra.co.nz wrote:
    >> If , you could use online banking to drill down and view the receipt
    >> details on your transactions - or , even download xml receipts from
    >> your online banking service. For eft-pos, and other bills such as
    >> telecom.
    >>
    >> Then if IRD to make these acceptable for tax information-digital
    >> certificates could be used to authenticate the transactions. They
    >> could even code the transaction categories to be say 'PETROL' ,
    >> 'STATIONERY' etc....
    >>
    >> With the right software this would reduce my compliance costs
    >> hugely, and my accounting bills. Even depreciation could be
    >> calculated automatically using the correct coding systems.

    >
    > This makes way too much sense... it'll never happen.


    It's probably more to do with privacy issues. I doubt many people want
    their itemised purchases held by a bank or any central repository. If it
    were it could be open to abuse. We notice you buy a lot of Coke, try this
    Pepsi product. You eat a lot, here's a Jennny Craig voucher, etc.

    There is a lot of this type of discussion going on relating to RFID.
    Absolutely, it makes complete logical sense and has so many benefits but
    it's another subtle step to big brother. :)
    http://www.google.com/search?q=RFID "big brother"


    -KENT
    Kent Smith, Sep 6, 2005
    #9
  10. T'was the Tue, 6 Sep 2005 12:08:21 +1200 when I remembered
    "news.xtra.co.nz" <> saying something like this:

    >If , you could use online banking to drill down and view the receipt
    >details on your transactions - or , even download xml receipts from your
    >online banking service. For eft-pos, and other bills such as telecom.


    You can download CSVs of your transactions from the Westpac website.
    --
    Cheers,

    Waylon Kenning.
    Waylon Kenning, Sep 6, 2005
    #10
  11. Kent Smith wrote:
    > It's probably more to do with privacy issues. I doubt many people want
    > their itemised purchases held by a bank or any central repository. If it
    > were it could be open to abuse. We notice you buy a lot of Coke, try this
    > Pepsi product. You eat a lot, here's a Jennny Craig voucher, etc.
    >
    > There is a lot of this type of discussion going on relating to RFID.
    > Absolutely, it makes complete logical sense and has so many benefits but
    > it's another subtle step to big brother. :)
    > http://www.google.com/search?q=RFID "big brother"


    semi related subject...
    next people will complain about google ads being targeted at similar
    subjects to the page that you are looking at...

    personally I love google ads, atleast the advertising is relevant...

    --
    http://dave.net.nz <- My personal site.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 6, 2005
    #11
  12. Waylon Kenning wrote:
    >>If , you could use online banking to drill down and view the receipt
    >>details on your transactions - or , even download xml receipts from your
    >>online banking service. For eft-pos, and other bills such as telecom.


    > You can download CSVs of your transactions from the Westpac website.


    yes you can, but it only gives the transaction amount, not the details
    of what was purchased... which I think is what was implied...

    --
    http://dave.net.nz <- My personal site.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Sep 6, 2005
    #12
  13. T'was the Wed, 07 Sep 2005 08:31:46 +1200 when I remembered "Dave -
    Dave.net.nz" <> saying something like this:

    >> You can download CSVs of your transactions from the Westpac website.

    >
    >yes you can, but it only gives the transaction amount, not the details
    >of what was purchased... which I think is what was implied...


    That would be pretty hard to do, since the only information the bank
    records in a transaction is the company that the transaction was made
    with right?

    I remember spending a couple of days with Quicken allocating
    categories to transactions just so I could see where I spent all my
    money. Ugh, horrible job.
    --
    Cheers,

    Waylon Kenning.
    Waylon Kenning, Sep 6, 2005
    #13
  14. news.xtra.co.nz

    lapimate Guest

    "Alan" <> wrote in message
    news:kB6Te.9119$...
    ....
    > This is already available and has been for some time now (called >
    > BankLink / BankConnet - different providers). Most of the banks can
    > do it (top 10 at least I think).
    > ...
    > Alan.
    >


    And BankLink provides for a system where you can write the account ledger
    code on your cheque before you send it to the supplier, so the analysis is
    already done! However you cannot write more than 1 ledger code on an
    individual cheque. In BankLink itself it is possible to set up automatic
    assignment to ledger codes (dissection) on the basis of e.g. supplier,
    amount etc. BankLink saves me a lot of work in preparing GST Returns and
    annual accounts.

    But sadly it is not (yet?) possible to enter an account ledger code at POS
    for EFTPOS purchases nor for credit card purchases.
    lapimate, Sep 7, 2005
    #14
  15. news.xtra.co.nz

    Richard Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > Waylon Kenning wrote:
    >
    >>> If , you could use online banking to drill down and view the receipt
    >>> details on your transactions - or , even download xml receipts from
    >>> your online banking service. For eft-pos, and other bills such as
    >>> telecom.

    >
    >
    >> You can download CSVs of your transactions from the Westpac website.

    >
    >
    > yes you can, but it only gives the transaction amount, not the details
    > of what was purchased... which I think is what was implied...


    Hopefully once we get the cards with the chip in them then the retailers will
    send the reciept to the card and you can download it to your PC later.

    I wouldnt want the banks to have access to the reciepts, its bad enough they can
    see where you are buying or getting the cash out. It prob looks very suspect
    that I regually get $60 to $80 out at k road on a saturday night ;)
    Richard, Sep 9, 2005
    #15
  16. Alan Macdougall, Sep 9, 2005
    #16
  17. In article <M58Te.9141$>,
    "Alan" <> wrote:

    >Well, the ETA 2002 states:
    >
    >"18.Legal requirement that information be in writing-
    >
    >A legal requirement that information be in writing is met by
    >information that is in electronic form if the information is readily
    >accessible so as to be usable for subsequent reference.
    >
    >19.Legal requirement to record information in writing-
    >
    >A legal requirement that information be recorded in writing is met by
    >recording the information in electronic form if the information is
    >readily accessible so as to be usable for subsequent reference."


    Odd that it doesn't say that the electronic form has to have _some_
    resistance against tampering...
    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro, Sep 13, 2005
    #17
  18. news.xtra.co.nz

    Shane Guest

    On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:08:12 +1200, Lawrence D¹Oliveiro wrote:

    > In article <M58Te.9141$>,
    > "Alan" <> wrote:
    >
    >>Well, the ETA 2002 states:
    >>
    >>"18.Legal requirement that information be in writing-
    >>
    >>A legal requirement that information be in writing is met by information
    >>that is in electronic form if the information is readily accessible so as
    >>to be usable for subsequent reference.
    >>
    >>19.Legal requirement to record information in writing-
    >>
    >>A legal requirement that information be recorded in writing is met by
    >>recording the information in electronic form if the information is
    >>readily accessible so as to be usable for subsequent reference."

    >
    > Odd that it doesn't say that the electronic form has to have _some_
    > resistance against tampering...


    How the heck would they enforce that?

    --
    Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked

    The best way to get the right answer on usenet is to post the wrong one.
    Shane, Sep 13, 2005
    #18
  19. news.xtra.co.nz

    Alan Guest

    "Lawrence D¹Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote
    in message news:...
    >
    > Odd that it doesn't say that the electronic form has to have _some_
    > resistance against tampering...
    >


    There is generally no specific reference to tampering in any other
    legislation with respect to paper based records except insofar as the
    general provisions of the fraud legislation applies equally no matter
    what the carrying media for an given information is.

    If the tampering is fraud, then it would be ilegal irrespective of
    whether it was done by amending a paper based or electronic document I
    guess.

    Alan.
    Alan, Sep 13, 2005
    #19
  20. In article <-a-geek.net>,
    Shane <-a-geek.net> wrote:

    >On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:08:12 +1200, Lawrence D©ˆOliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> In article <M58Te.9141$>,
    >> "Alan" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Well, the ETA 2002 states:
    >>>
    >>>"18.Legal requirement that information be in writing-
    >>>
    >>>A legal requirement that information be in writing is met by information
    >>>that is in electronic form if the information is readily accessible so as
    >>>to be usable for subsequent reference.
    >>>
    >>>19.Legal requirement to record information in writing-
    >>>
    >>>A legal requirement that information be recorded in writing is met by
    >>>recording the information in electronic form if the information is
    >>>readily accessible so as to be usable for subsequent reference."

    >>
    >> Odd that it doesn't say that the electronic form has to have _some_
    >> resistance against tampering...

    >
    >How the heck would they enforce that?


    Digital signatures ... write-once media ...
    Lawrence D’Oliveiro, Sep 13, 2005
    #20
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