Thinking about VOIP

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Tim Morley, Apr 9, 2006.

  1. Tim Morley

    Tim Morley Guest

    Anyone here gone totally voip and ditched their landline?
    I am currently using a dect handset system (siemens) through an orchid v4
    dialer and a combination of 1899, 18866, and my actual land line. I need a
    system that is trnasparent (completely!) to my family. ie they just dial a
    normal phone number, in the same way as they do through the orchid dialer.
    Do you get caller id on an ata? Have you any advice please?

    Thanks in advance.


    Tim

    *********************************************************************
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    Tim Morley, Apr 9, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Thus spaketh Tim Morley:
    > Anyone here gone totally voip and ditched their landline?
    > I am currently using a dect handset system (siemens) through an
    > orchid v4 dialer and a combination of 1899, 18866, and my actual land
    > line. I need a system that is trnasparent (completely!) to my family.
    > ie they just dial a normal phone number, in the same way as they do
    > through the orchid dialer. Do you get caller id on an ata? Have you
    > any advice please?
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    >
    > Tim
    >



    I've gone totally VoIP.

    Yes you get caller ID and Call Waiting.

    I use the LinkSys PAP2


    --
    Items for sale: www.dodgy-dealer.co.uk
    3p/min & 1p Texts, EasyMobile, For £5 airtime bonus contact via:
    www.southeastbirmingham.co.uk
     
    {{{{{Welcome}}}}}, Apr 9, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. In article <b46_f.50393$>,
    "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
    >
    > Anyone here gone totally voip and ditched their landline?
    > I am currently using a dect handset system (siemens) through an orchid v4
    > dialer and a combination of 1899, 18866, and my actual land line. I need a
    > system that is trnasparent (completely!) to my family. ie they just dial a
    > normal phone number, in the same way as they do through the orchid dialer.
    > Do you get caller id on an ata? Have you any advice please?


    I converted my family to VoIP between themselves.
    It was also important in my case that they could continue using
    all the same phones they did before -- it would be a non-starter
    if it involved different handsets, or switching on and using the
    computer. I used mostly Sipura SPA-3000's which connect between
    the regular phone line and the handsets. They then route some
    calls between themselves over VoIP, and all other calls are
    passed on to the normal phone line (which I was not intending
    to get rid of). Callerid works fine both for normal phone calls
    and VoIP (the SPA-3000 support's BT's callerid). One member of
    the family has a phone which does the off-hook call waiting ID,
    and apparently that works too.

    --
    Andrew Gabriel
     
    Andrew Gabriel, Apr 9, 2006
    #3
  4. "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:b46_f.50393$...
    >
    > Anyone here gone totally voip and ditched their landline?
    > I am currently using a dect handset system (siemens) through an orchid v4
    > dialer and a combination of 1899, 18866, and my actual land line. I need a
    > system that is trnasparent (completely!) to my family. ie they just dial a
    > normal phone number, in the same way as they do through the orchid dialer.
    > Do you get caller id on an ata? Have you any advice please?
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    >



    Yes, but I am on NTL, so don't need a landline for ADSL.

    Saves me £11 PCM just on Line rental, then the othersavings as I am with
    Sipdiscount so free calls 24/7
     
    =?iso-8859-1?B?UGhpbMU=?=, Apr 9, 2006
    #4
  5. Tim Morley

    Tim Morley Guest

    "PhilÅ" <> wrote in message
    news:UOb_f.974$...
    >
    > "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:b46_f.50393$...
    >>
    >> Anyone here gone totally voip and ditched their landline?
    >> I am currently using a dect handset system (siemens) through an orchid v4
    >> dialer and a combination of 1899, 18866, and my actual land line. I need
    >> a system that is trnasparent (completely!) to my family. ie they just
    >> dial a normal phone number, in the same way as they do through the orchid
    >> dialer. Do you get caller id on an ata? Have you any advice please?
    >>
    >> Thanks in advance.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > Yes, but I am on NTL, so don't need a landline for ADSL.
    >
    > Saves me £11 PCM just on Line rental, then the othersavings as I am with
    > Sipdiscount so free calls 24/7


    Me too, on blueyonder (telewest) and upgrading to 4M down 386k upstream (I
    think).
    Are they suppliers that will give me a "local" exchange number for incoming
    calls? or does this bit cost.

    Thanks for your input so far ;)
     
    Tim Morley, Apr 9, 2006
    #5
  6. Tim Morley

    Jono Guest

    "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:hNc_f.50627$...
    >
    > "PhilÅ" <> wrote in message
    > news:UOb_f.974$...
    >>
    >> "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
    >> message news:b46_f.50393$...
    >>>
    >>> Anyone here gone totally voip and ditched their landline?
    >>> I am currently using a dect handset system (siemens) through an orchid
    >>> v4 dialer and a combination of 1899, 18866, and my actual land line. I
    >>> need a system that is trnasparent (completely!) to my family. ie they
    >>> just dial a normal phone number, in the same way as they do through the
    >>> orchid dialer. Do you get caller id on an ata? Have you any advice
    >>> please?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks in advance.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> Yes, but I am on NTL, so don't need a landline for ADSL.
    >>
    >> Saves me £11 PCM just on Line rental, then the othersavings as I am with
    >> Sipdiscount so free calls 24/7

    >
    > Me too, on blueyonder (telewest) and upgrading to 4M down 386k upstream (I
    > think).
    > Are they suppliers that will give me a "local" exchange number for
    > incoming calls? or does this bit cost.
    >
    > Thanks for your input so far ;)
    >
    >


    Sipdiscount give a free geographical number - beware, though, if you don't
    live somewhere like Birmingham or London (or at least put a fake address in
    your account details) you will get an 0560 number. (NTL won't deliver calls
    to 0560 numbers)

    Sipgate provide a geographical number for an STD of your choosing, as does
    voip.co.uk. The former requires no credit, the latter £10.
     
    Jono, Apr 9, 2006
    #6
  7. "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:hNc_f.50627$...
    >
    > "PhilÅ" <> wrote in message
    > news:UOb_f.974$...
    >>
    >> "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
    >> message news:b46_f.50393$...
    >>>
    >>> Anyone here gone totally voip and ditched their landline?
    >>> I am currently using a dect handset system (siemens) through an orchid
    >>> v4 dialer and a combination of 1899, 18866, and my actual land line. I
    >>> need a system that is trnasparent (completely!) to my family. ie they
    >>> just dial a normal phone number, in the same way as they do through the
    >>> orchid dialer. Do you get caller id on an ata? Have you any advice
    >>> please?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks in advance.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> Yes, but I am on NTL, so don't need a landline for ADSL.
    >>
    >> Saves me £11 PCM just on Line rental, then the othersavings as I am with
    >> Sipdiscount so free calls 24/7

    >
    > Me too, on blueyonder (telewest) and upgrading to 4M down 386k upstream (I
    > think).
    > Are they suppliers that will give me a "local" exchange number for
    > incoming calls? or does this bit cost.
    >
    > Thanks for your input so far ;)
    >
    >


    Ohh and I am on the 1MB DL and 100k Upload, the basic.

    I can still have a PC on at the same time, XBOX Live and make a phone call
    on this with no problems.
     
    =?iso-8859-1?B?UGhpbMU=?=, Apr 9, 2006
    #7
  8. In message <hNc_f.50627$>
    "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk>
    wrote:

    >
    > "PhilÅ" <> wrote in message
    > news:UOb_f.974$...
    >>
    >> "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
    >> news:b46_f.50393$...
    >>>
    >>> Anyone here gone totally voip and ditched their landline?
    >>> I am currently using a dect handset system (siemens) through an orchid v4
    >>> dialer and a combination of 1899, 18866, and my actual land line. I need
    >>> a system that is trnasparent (completely!) to my family. ie they just
    >>> dial a normal phone number, in the same way as they do through the orchid
    >>> dialer. Do you get caller id on an ata? Have you any advice please?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks in advance.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> Yes, but I am on NTL, so don't need a landline for ADSL.
    >>
    >> Saves me £11 PCM just on Line rental, then the othersavings as I am with
    >> Sipdiscount so free calls 24/7

    >
    > Me too, on blueyonder (telewest) and upgrading to 4M down 386k upstream (I
    > think).
    > Are they suppliers that will give me a "local" exchange number for incoming
    > calls? or does this bit cost.
    >
    > Thanks for your input so far ;)

    I have been with BT BBV almost since it inception however just
    changed router and had probs with incoming call.
    BT support now saying they will not support any hardware unless
    supplied by them........
    Moved to Freetalk this afternoon, free geo number plus plug and play
    setup with TA and cheaper than BT.
    Now with geo number no reason to stay with TW as telco provider

    cheers



    --
    Duncan MacCallum
     
    Duncan MacCallum, Apr 9, 2006
    #8
  9. Tim Morley

    Nick Guest

    "Jono" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:hNc_f.50627$...
    > >
    > > "PhilÅ" <> wrote in message
    > > news:UOb_f.974$...
    > >>
    > >> "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
    > >> message news:b46_f.50393$...
    > >>>
    > >>> Anyone here gone totally voip and ditched their landline?
    > >>> I am currently using a dect handset system (siemens) through an orchid
    > >>> v4 dialer and a combination of 1899, 18866, and my actual land line. I
    > >>> need a system that is trnasparent (completely!) to my family. ie they
    > >>> just dial a normal phone number, in the same way as they do through

    the
    > >>> orchid dialer. Do you get caller id on an ata? Have you any advice
    > >>> please?
    > >>>
    > >>> Thanks in advance.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Yes, but I am on NTL, so don't need a landline for ADSL.
    > >>
    > >> Saves me £11 PCM just on Line rental, then the othersavings as I am

    with
    > >> Sipdiscount so free calls 24/7

    > >
    > > Me too, on blueyonder (telewest) and upgrading to 4M down 386k upstream

    (I
    > > think).
    > > Are they suppliers that will give me a "local" exchange number for
    > > incoming calls? or does this bit cost.
    > >
    > > Thanks for your input so far ;)
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Sipdiscount give a free geographical number - beware, though, if you don't
    > live somewhere like Birmingham or London (or at least put a fake address

    in
    > your account details) you will get an 0560 number. (NTL won't deliver

    calls
    > to 0560 numbers)
    >
    > Sipgate provide a geographical number for an STD of your choosing, as does
    > voip.co.uk. The former requires no credit, the latter £10.
    >
    >


    NTL won't deliver calls to 0560 numbers

    I have NTL landline that receives incoming 0560 numbers fine
    ..
     
    Nick, Apr 9, 2006
    #9
  10. Thus spaketh Nick:
    > "Jono" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>
    >> "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
    >> message news:hNc_f.50627$...
    >>>
    >>> "PhilÅ" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:UOb_f.974$...
    >>>>
    >>>> "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
    >>>> message news:b46_f.50393$...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Anyone here gone totally voip and ditched their landline?
    >>>>> I am currently using a dect handset system (siemens) through an
    >>>>> orchid v4 dialer and a combination of 1899, 18866, and my actual
    >>>>> land line. I need a system that is trnasparent (completely!) to
    >>>>> my family. ie they just dial a normal phone number, in the same
    >>>>> way as they do through the orchid dialer. Do you get caller id on
    >>>>> an ata? Have you any advice please?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Thanks in advance.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Yes, but I am on NTL, so don't need a landline for ADSL.
    >>>>
    >>>> Saves me £11 PCM just on Line rental, then the othersavings as I
    >>>> am with Sipdiscount so free calls 24/7
    >>>
    >>> Me too, on blueyonder (telewest) and upgrading to 4M down 386k
    >>> upstream (I think).
    >>> Are they suppliers that will give me a "local" exchange number for
    >>> incoming calls? or does this bit cost.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks for your input so far ;)
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Sipdiscount give a free geographical number - beware, though, if you
    >> don't live somewhere like Birmingham or London (or at least put a
    >> fake address in your account details) you will get an 0560 number.
    >> (NTL won't deliver calls to 0560 numbers)
    >>
    >> Sipgate provide a geographical number for an STD of your choosing,
    >> as does voip.co.uk. The former requires no credit, the latter £10.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > NTL won't deliver calls to 0560 numbers
    >
    > I have NTL landline that receives incoming 0560 numbers fine
    > .



    Well yes of course the NTL landline receives calls fine for that it doesn't
    matter what the CLID is.

    What you will find is people on NTL lines often can't call out to 0560
    numbers.

    --
    Items for sale: www.dodgy-dealer.co.uk
    3p/min & 1p Texts, EasyMobile, For £5 airtime bonus contact via:
    www.southeastbirmingham.co.uk
     
    {{{{{Welcome}}}}}, Apr 9, 2006
    #10
  11. Tim Morley

    GwG Guest

    "Nick" <> wrote in message
    news:61g_f.1955$...
    >
    > "Jono" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>
    >> "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
    >> message
    >> news:hNc_f.50627$...
    >> >
    >> > "PhilÅ" <> wrote in message
    >> > news:UOb_f.974$...
    >> >>
    >> >> "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
    >> >> message news:b46_f.50393$...
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Anyone here gone totally voip and ditched their landline?
    >> >>> I am currently using a dect handset system (siemens) through an
    >> >>> orchid
    >> >>> v4 dialer and a combination of 1899, 18866, and my actual land
    >> >>> line. I
    >> >>> need a system that is trnasparent (completely!) to my family. ie
    >> >>> they
    >> >>> just dial a normal phone number, in the same way as they do
    >> >>> through

    > the
    >> >>> orchid dialer. Do you get caller id on an ata? Have you any
    >> >>> advice
    >> >>> please?
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Thanks in advance.
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >> Yes, but I am on NTL, so don't need a landline for ADSL.
    >> >>
    >> >> Saves me £11 PCM just on Line rental, then the othersavings as I
    >> >> am

    > with
    >> >> Sipdiscount so free calls 24/7
    >> >
    >> > Me too, on blueyonder (telewest) and upgrading to 4M down 386k
    >> > upstream

    > (I
    >> > think).
    >> > Are they suppliers that will give me a "local" exchange number for
    >> > incoming calls? or does this bit cost.
    >> >
    >> > Thanks for your input so far ;)
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >> Sipdiscount give a free geographical number - beware, though, if you
    >> don't
    >> live somewhere like Birmingham or London (or at least put a fake
    >> address

    > in
    >> your account details) you will get an 0560 number. (NTL won't deliver

    > calls
    >> to 0560 numbers)
    >>
    >> Sipgate provide a geographical number for an STD of your choosing, as
    >> does
    >> voip.co.uk. The former requires no credit, the latter £10.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > NTL won't deliver calls to 0560 numbers
    >
    > I have NTL landline that receives incoming 0560 numbers fine
    > .


    Most NTL exchanges have not been enabled to accept 0560 numbers, some
    have.
    NTL have said that they are not going to enable further exchanges to
    accept 0560 numbers.
    Carphone Warehouse are reported to be launching a combined telephone
    line rental with broadband access for £14.99, which should give NTL a
    rude awakening.
     
    GwG, Apr 10, 2006
    #11
  12. Tim Morley

    Tim Morley Guest

    "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:Wia_f.50524$...
    > Thus spaketh Tim Morley:
    >> Anyone here gone totally voip and ditched their landline?
    >> I am currently using a dect handset system (siemens) through an
    >> orchid v4 dialer and a combination of 1899, 18866, and my actual land
    >> line. I need a system that is trnasparent (completely!) to my family.
    >> ie they just dial a normal phone number, in the same way as they do
    >> through the orchid dialer. Do you get caller id on an ata? Have you
    >> any advice please?
    >> Thanks in advance.
    >>
    >>
    >> Tim
    >>

    >
    >
    > I've gone totally VoIP.
    >
    > Yes you get caller ID and Call Waiting.
    >
    > I use the LinkSys PAP2
    >
    >
    > --
    > Items for sale: www.dodgy-dealer.co.uk
    > 3p/min & 1p Texts, EasyMobile, For £5 airtime bonus contact via:
    > www.southeastbirmingham.co.uk
    >


    Am I correct thinking that any adaptor unit bought from a voip supplier is
    to be locked to their network. I have seen a netgear unit that is also a
    router, anyone used it?
     
    Tim Morley, Apr 10, 2006
    #12
  13. Thus spaketh Tim Morley:
    >
    > Am I correct thinking that any adaptor unit bought from a voip
    > supplier is to be locked to their network. I have seen a netgear unit
    > that is also a router, anyone used it?



    There is a high probability that it would be locked.

    I bought my PAP2 from BroadbandBuyer.co.uk this was the unlocked version, as
    I didn't want to take the risk of not being able to unlock the locked
    version.

    BroadbandStuff.co.uk and dabs also supply the item.

    I've not used the Netgear product you mention, sorry.


    --
    Items for sale: www.dodgy-dealer.co.uk
    3p/min & 1p Texts, EasyMobile, For £5 airtime bonus contact via:
    www.southeastbirmingham.co.uk
     
    {{{{{Welcome}}}}}, Apr 10, 2006
    #13
  14. "Tim Morley" <tim.morley*REMOVE UNDIES*@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:B%s_f.50899$...
    >
    > "{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:Wia_f.50524$...
    >> Thus spaketh Tim Morley:
    >>> Anyone here gone totally voip and ditched their landline?
    >>> I am currently using a dect handset system (siemens) through an
    >>> orchid v4 dialer and a combination of 1899, 18866, and my actual land
    >>> line. I need a system that is trnasparent (completely!) to my family.
    >>> ie they just dial a normal phone number, in the same way as they do
    >>> through the orchid dialer. Do you get caller id on an ata? Have you
    >>> any advice please?
    >>> Thanks in advance.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Tim
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> I've gone totally VoIP.
    >>
    >> Yes you get caller ID and Call Waiting.
    >>
    >> I use the LinkSys PAP2
    >>
    >>
    >> --
    >> Items for sale: www.dodgy-dealer.co.uk
    >> 3p/min & 1p Texts, EasyMobile, For £5 airtime bonus contact via:
    >> www.southeastbirmingham.co.uk
    >>

    >
    > Am I correct thinking that any adaptor unit bought from a voip supplier is
    > to be locked to their network. I have seen a netgear unit that is also a
    > router, anyone used it?
    >


    Yep, the WRT54GP2.
    I use and have used it for about 6 months.
    It is a bitch out of the box.
    Always dropping the internet and resetting, I have had two that did the
    same.
    It was due to an early Firmware version.
    Netgear are useless, I had many a live chat with the techy from linksys, all
    firmware comes from the VOIP company you get the router from they say.
    However mine was purchased unlocked, if you say that they say it may be
    faulty and to return as they do not release any unlocked firmware.
    Luckly I found some on a linksys FTP server, I now have Ver 1.30.04 which is
    nice and stable. With this firmware the router is well recommended.

    Brought mine from misco, they price matched BBB after BBB sent me a locked
    French one.
    BBB admitted the fault but it took me many calls and a letter to get the
    returned postage it cost me to send it back (I would never use them again).
     
    =?iso-8859-1?B?UGhpbMU=?=, Apr 10, 2006
    #14
  15. Tim Morley

    andy Guest

    rather incompetent spam, all on the same thread at the same time
     
    andy, Apr 14, 2006
    #15
  16. Tim Morley

    paul123 Guest

    HSL wrote:
    > Pay high for international call? Make a long story short?
    >
    > No! Enjoy the phone call with the lowest calling rate in the world!
    >
    > Shenzhen HSL Tech Co., Ltd is a leader in multimedia and
    > telecommunications industries in China, which registered as Topfit
    > Holdings Limited in Hongkong, we are a main provider of VoIP voice,
    > data, multi-media video frequency integrated access and increment
    > service solution for Telecom carrier, network carrier, ISP Internet and
    > SOHO.
    > We specialize and focus on design, R&D, manufacturing, marketing and
    > sales as well as OEM/ODM project. With professional and high quality
    > team, many of them are seasoned experts in telecom network, data
    > traffic, mobile communication and network integration.
    > One of the excellent products we provided is the only usable gateway in
    > Myanmar for out-going call & in-coming call in the world .
    >
    > Welcome to contact us for more detail information.
    >
    >
    > MSN:
    >
    > E-MAIL:
    > TEL: 0086+0755+33388086 0086+13714822225
    > FAX: 0086+0755+33388885 0086+0755+82234937
    > ADD.: FLAT803,8/F,YINGDU BLDG,3016# SHENNAN ROAD EAST,LUOHU DISTRICT,
    > SHENZHEN,P.R. CHINA.



    Where are the spam police when you need 'em?
     
    paul123, Apr 14, 2006
    #16
  17. Tim Morley

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "HSL" <> wrote in message
    news:
    > Pay high for international call? Make a long story short?
    > No!


    Want spam on your newsgroup..?
    No..!

    Take it away.

    Ivor
     
    Ivor Jones, Apr 14, 2006
    #17
  18. Tim Morley

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "paul123" <> wrote in message
    news:

    [snip]

    > Where are the spam police when you need 'em?


    Repeating the entire thing just to add one line doesn't help..! I've
    reported it to the ISP but that won't help either I don't suppose.

    Ivor
     
    Ivor Jones, Apr 14, 2006
    #18
  19. Tim Morley

    Guest

    On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:35:14 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >
    >"paul123" <> wrote in message
    >news:
    >
    >[snip]
    >
    >> Where are the spam police when you need 'em?

    >
    >Repeating the entire thing just to add one line doesn't help..! I've
    >reported it to the ISP but that won't help either I don't suppose.

    Precisely ivor it won't help at all so why bother in the first place
    just learn to live with it .
     
    , Apr 14, 2006
    #19
  20. Tim Morley

    Tim Bray Guest

    Tim Morley wrote:
    > Am I correct thinking that any adaptor unit bought from a voip supplier is
    > to be locked to their network. I have seen a netgear unit that is also a
    > router, anyone used it?


    No. Lots of providers sell unlocked equipment.

    With some, the equipment will be configured for their network, and you
    might have to ask for the profile to be delete from the configuration
    service.

    Tim
     
    Tim Bray, Apr 19, 2006
    #20
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