Thinking about the MCSE accreditation after 11 years in IT

Discussion in 'MCSE' started by =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=, Sep 9, 2005.

  1. All,

    I am thinking about doing the MCSE exams and the route I am going to take is
    to buy some books and start from there. I was thinking about the MCSE
    Windows 2003 Core requirements ISBN 0735619530 as a good starting point but I
    notice that three out of the four books within the set are not availible for
    sale seperatly any more. Does any one know why this is? Are Microsoft about
    to publish revised versions?

    The reason for asking is I do not wish to go out and spend £100 on the books
    to find out that they are not worth it.

    Does anyone have any views on these books or are there better ones out there
    for the MCSE Cert?

    Thanks in advance.
    =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=, Sep 9, 2005
    #1
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  2. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    Ogre Guest

    ADAdmin wrote:
    > Does anyone have any views on these books or are there better ones out there
    > for the MCSE Cert?


    How much of your experience is in NT, 2000 or 2003? If you say a good
    bit, I would get the skills being measured for the exam I was going to
    take, buy the 2003 Resource Kit and Transenders or Self-Test exams.
    Take one of the tests, see where your weaknesses were and let that be
    the start of where to study.

    The only thing I really like about the MS Press books are the labs and
    exercises, I find that they collect dust after I finish with the exams;
    where as I have referred many times to the Res Kit.

    Just my 2 cents
    Ogre, Sep 9, 2005
    #2
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  3. Congrats on your goal to get an MCSE. The cert itself doesn't give you any
    skill, but it certainly will look very nice on a resume coupled with that 11
    years of IT experience you've got.

    The Transcender practice exams have gotten me thru 11 tests so far. Not
    only do they get you prepared for the tricky questions of the exam, but they
    do an excellent job of explaining the answers and referencing books if you
    want to dig into an answer further.

    I personally don't like book study for the exams because there's far too
    much filler info that I have to skim thru. I just want the details, the
    rules, the methods, etc...

    "ADAdmin" wrote:

    > All,
    >
    > I am thinking about doing the MCSE exams and the route I am going to take is
    > to buy some books and start from there. I was thinking about the MCSE
    > Windows 2003 Core requirements ISBN 0735619530 as a good starting point but I
    > notice that three out of the four books within the set are not availible for
    > sale seperatly any more. Does any one know why this is? Are Microsoft about
    > to publish revised versions?
    >
    > The reason for asking is I do not wish to go out and spend £100 on the books
    > to find out that they are not worth it.
    >
    > Does anyone have any views on these books or are there better ones out there
    > for the MCSE Cert?
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    =?Utf-8?B?SmFsZXhhbmRlcjAx?=, Sep 9, 2005
    #3
  4. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    Neil Guest

    did you hear =?Utf-8?B?SmFsZXhhbmRlcjAx?=
    <> say in
    news:D:

    > they
    > do an excellent job of explaining the answers and referencing books if
    > you want to dig into an answer further.
    >


    I like them for just this reason. And they are not dumps. Stay away from
    dumps. TestKing is a dump, Transcenders are a test prep.

    (baiting chalk for yet another round of arguing <g>)

    --
    Neil MCNGP#30

    - A good hot dog feeds the hand that bites it.
    Neil, Sep 9, 2005
    #4
  5. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    Neil Guest

    did you hear =?Utf-8?B?SmFsZXhhbmRlcjAx?= <Jalexander01
    @discussions.microsoft.com> say in news:D58F7F7E-B2B1-4D0B-806A-
    :

    > I personally don't like book study for the exams because there's far

    too
    > much filler info that I have to skim thru. I just want the details,

    the
    > rules, the methods, etc...


    I will disagree here. Cram the brain with books, CD info, Videos,
    websites, TechNet, MSDN, KB articles, books online, every thing. The best
    will be actually using the product and trying things out. Create a
    network (consider using Virtual Machines - either VPC or VMWare) and
    build and break till you really understand it.

    --
    Neil MCNGP#30

    - If at first you don't succeed, change the rules.
    Neil, Sep 9, 2005
    #5
  6. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >Transcenders are a test prep.
    >
    >(baiting chalk for yet another round of arguing <g>)


    that's right Neil they're test preps. As the format of the real exams
    bare's no resemblance to the real world, why should these types of
    'test preps' be any different :)

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    Kline Sphere, Sep 9, 2005
    #6
  7. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >Cram the brain with books, CD info, Videos,
    >websites, TechNet, MSDN, KB articles, books online, every thing. The best
    >will be actually using the product and trying things out. Create a
    >network (consider using Virtual Machines - either VPC or VMWare) and
    >build and break till you really understand it.


    absolutely.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    Kline Sphere, Sep 9, 2005
    #7
  8. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    JaR Guest

    In microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, Kline Sphere spewed across the ether:

    > As the format of the real exams
    > bare's no resemblance to the real world,


    They do so! Ben said so.

    And it's "bears"

    --
    JaR
    Thug 10110
    MCNGP.com/spelling/politzei
    JaR, Sep 9, 2005
    #8
  9. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >The Transcender practice exams have gotten me thru 11 tests so far. Not
    >only do they get you prepared for the tricky questions of the exam,


    lol!

    > but they
    >do an excellent job of explaining the answers and referencing books if you
    >want to dig into an answer further.


    wow, they point you to the msdn/exam coarse notes.

    This would be fine I've they never gave you the answer's, thus
    requiring people to actual go off and so the research. As it is,
    people simply 'memorize the answers' to questions which the taker
    hopes will be similar (or the same) as those in the real exam. This
    hardly proves an understanding of the subject matter.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    Kline Sphere, Sep 9, 2005
    #9
  10. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >The only thing I really like about the MS Press books are the labs and
    >exercises, I find that they collect dust after I finish with the exams;


    Ebay is your friend :)

    >where as I have referred many times to the Res Kit.


    Yup.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    Kline Sphere, Sep 9, 2005
    #10
  11. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    Neil Guest

    did you hear Kline Sphere <.@> say in
    news::

    > that's right Neil they're test preps. As the format of the real exams
    > bare's no resemblance to the real world, why should these types of
    > 'test preps' be any different :)


    depends on teh colour of the sky in your world. There are a ton of places
    that use multiple domains, My office has one that supports 2500 users.
    There are little shops that will merrily use RRAS, where as I would
    rather pull off my own head. There are places that wouldn't be caught
    dead using Windows DNS even if thye do have to have an AD Domain. I think
    that it's ok. The exams cover a pretty broad spectrum and the real world
    just might have some of those things.

    As for the word "prep", are you suggesting that preparing for a test is
    bad? is Learning something a bad thing? Should I blindly go into an exam
    without reviewing material? I have plenty of experience, even though I
    have mentioned I wouldn't be cuaght dead using RRAS; I'm sure that wont
    be on the 70-216 exam. Sure I see it listed on www.microsoft.com/learning
    as an area covered, but this is the real world right. oh sorry, reading
    that was preparing wasn't it. DAGNUBIT! I must have been cheating when I
    read that without knowing it...

    --
    Neil MCNGP#30

    - Sex is not the answer. Sex is the question. "Yes" is the answer.
    Neil, Sep 9, 2005
    #11
  12. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    Neil Guest

    did you hear Kline Sphere <.@> say in
    news::

    >>Cram the brain with books, CD info, Videos,
    >>websites, TechNet, MSDN, KB articles, books online, every thing. The
    >>best will be actually using the product and trying things out. Create
    >>a network (consider using Virtual Machines - either VPC or VMWare) and
    >>build and break till you really understand it.

    >
    > absolutely.
    >
    > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    >


    and then fill in the gaps with the Transcenders...

    *poke, poke*

    --
    Neil MCNGP#30

    - Dachshund: Half a dog high by a dog and a half long.
    Neil, Sep 9, 2005
    #12
  13. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    Neil Guest

    did you hear Kline Sphere <.@> say in
    news::

    > wow, they point you to the msdn/exam coarse notes.


    no they point to the exam fine notes...

    (the Mrs is the Gammar police, I'm the Gramper police)

    --
    Neil MCNGP#30

    - You're schizophrenic? Gee, that makes four of us!
    Neil, Sep 9, 2005
    #13
  14. "Kline Sphere" wrote:

    > wow, they point you to the msdn/exam coarse notes.
    >
    > This would be fine I've they never gave you the answer's, thus
    > requiring people to actual go off and so the research. As it is,
    > people simply 'memorize the answers' to questions which the taker
    > hopes will be similar (or the same) as those in the real exam. This
    > hardly proves an understanding of the subject matter.
    >
    > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    >


    I have to disagree with that. Everyone I've ever spoken with who has used
    Transcender test preps has said that they're able to learn a significant
    amount from the explanations. No memorization of the answers is required if
    the test prep clearly explains why an answer is correct and another is not,
    which Transcender does quite nicely. Memorization of the rules & reasons IE:
    "GPOs can only be tied to Domains, OUs, & Sites" can actually give one an
    excellent understanding of the subject matter.

    I'm sure there have got to be some people in the world foolish enough to go
    thru a Transcender test prep and attempt to memorize the answers, but I
    hardly think that the majority of Transcender customers do so.
    =?Utf-8?B?SmFsZXhhbmRlcjAx?=, Sep 9, 2005
    #14
  15. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    catwalker63 Guest

    JaR <> prattled ceaslessly in
    news:Xns96CC5E1CFDEFCMisanthrope@207.46.248.16:

    > In microsoft.public.cert.exam.mcse, Kline Sphere spewed across the
    > ether:
    >
    >> As the format of the real exams
    >> bare's no resemblance to the real world,

    >
    > And it's "bears"
    >


    Lions and Tigers and Bares, Oh My! <eg>

    --
    Catwalker
    aka Pu$$y Feet
    BS, MCP, MCSA, MCSE
    MCNGP #43
    www.mcngp.com
    faq.mcngp.com
    "Definitely not wearing any underwear."
    catwalker63, Sep 9, 2005
    #15
  16. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    Ogre Guest

    Kline Sphere wrote:
    >
    > Ebay is your friend :)


    I thought Google was my friend.
    Ogre, Sep 9, 2005
    #16
  17. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    Frisbee® Guest

    "Jalexander01" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > "Kline Sphere" wrote:
    >
    >> wow, they point you to the msdn/exam coarse notes.
    >>
    >> This would be fine I've they never gave you the answer's, thus
    >> requiring people to actual go off and so the research. As it is,
    >> people simply 'memorize the answers' to questions which the taker
    >> hopes will be similar (or the same) as those in the real exam. This
    >> hardly proves an understanding of the subject matter.
    >>
    >> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    >>

    >
    > I have to disagree with that. Everyone I've ever spoken with who has used
    > Transcender test preps has said that they're able to learn a significant
    > amount from the explanations. No memorization of the answers is required
    > if
    > the test prep clearly explains why an answer is correct and another is
    > not,
    > which Transcender does quite nicely. Memorization of the rules & reasons
    > IE:
    > "GPOs can only be tied to Domains, OUs, & Sites" can actually give one an
    > excellent understanding of the subject matter.
    >
    > I'm sure there have got to be some people in the world foolish enough to
    > go
    > thru a Transcender test prep and attempt to memorize the answers, but I
    > hardly think that the majority of Transcender customers do so.


    So, what have you been up to latley since Seinfeld, other than those silly
    Chrystler commercials?
    Frisbee®, Sep 9, 2005
    #17
  18. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >There are a ton of places
    >that use multiple domains, My office has one that supports 2500 users.
    >There are little shops that will merrily use RRAS, where as I would
    >rather pull off my own head. There are places that wouldn't be caught
    >dead using Windows DNS even if thye do have to have an AD Domain. I think
    >that it's ok. The exams cover a pretty broad spectrum and the real world
    >just might have some of those things.


    That's right Neil, real world decisions are always based on 'choosing
    the best answer from the list above'. Your example above, shows just
    why such exam questions are pointless, i.e why would a company use
    (or would not use) 'Windows DNS'......, the only correct answer here
    (given the lack of information) is 'who knows?'.

    The exam topics do indeed cover a 'broad spectrum' of real world
    problems (as defined in the prep guids), but they do not prove by
    answering the question correctly, either in the real exams or
    transcenders (and like of), that the person actual understands said
    question. When someone can explain and describe why there choose the
    answer, then the truly understand the question.

    >As for the word "prep", are you suggesting that preparing for a test is
    >bad? is Learning something a bad thing?


    'prep' in the context of transcender and the like of, yes I sure am. I
    don't blame the company, it's format that's crap; but soon........

    >Should I blindly go into an exam
    >without reviewing material?


    only if you can 'read' in braille.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    Kline Sphere, Sep 9, 2005
    #18
  19. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >and then fill in the gaps with the Transcenders...
    >
    >*poke, poke*


    you know exactly what I mean, but incase you've forgotten :-

    Being able to answer a question by memorizing the answer to a
    predicted question does not constitute an understanding of the
    question, and indeed, the answer.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    Kline Sphere, Sep 9, 2005
    #19
  20. =?Utf-8?B?QURBZG1pbg==?=

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >I have to disagree with that. Everyone I've ever spoken with who has used
    >Transcender test preps has said that they're able to learn a significant
    >amount from the explanations.


    I'm sure people do. However, there are also people that use such
    products simply because the questions and answers are so close to the
    real thing; given the format it's hard for the answers not to be.

    > No memorization of the answers is required if
    >the test prep clearly explains why an answer is correct and another is not,
    >which Transcender does quite nicely. Memorization of the rules & reasons IE:
    >"GPOs can only be tied to Domains, OUs, & Sites" can actually give one an
    >excellent understanding of the subject matter.


    The question should not be about reciting a simple rule as in your
    example given above. Being able the describe and explain why a GPO
    would be more appropriate being 'tied' (as you put it) to an ou rather
    than a domain for a given situation, without having to choose from a
    list, would prove such understanding.

    >I'm sure there have got to be some people in the world foolish enough to go
    >thru a Transcender test prep and attempt to memorize the answers, but I
    >hardly think that the majority of Transcender customers do so.


    I truly have no idea. What I do know, is there are plenty of so called
    'microsoft certified professionals' out there who know nothing about
    what they are supposed to be 'certified' in. How do they do this?
    Simple, they memorize the answers to the questions obtained from dumps
    and/or from 'practice tests'.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    Kline Sphere, Sep 9, 2005
    #20
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