thin client experience different depending on where it is from theserver

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by eganders, Feb 4, 2008.

  1. eganders

    eganders Guest

    We have an internet application we use in Southeastern Michigan that
    is developed in Maryland. We find that the application often see
    idiosyncracies that the developer in Maryland does not see. I
    attribute this to the way to application handles the difference in the
    internet path somehow. Why should we see an application behave any
    differently based on where it is relative to the server,(the longer
    path?) or different path the data takes?

    Not being an internet protocol expert, I can only surmise what is
    happening to the data between the application server and our thin
    clients on internet explorer. It appears that some data is not being
    transmitted, not being acknowledged or possibly arriving in an order
    differently than was intended. That seems hard to believe, since I
    would expect all the packets to be assembled in the proper order and
    that internet protocol would allow for "resends" for data that never
    made it.

    24hoursupport.helpdesk
    eganders, Feb 4, 2008
    #1
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  2. eganders

    why? Guest

    Re: thin client experience different depending on where it is from the server

    On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 05:21:11 -0800 (PST), eganders wrote:

    >We have an internet application we use in Southeastern Michigan that
    >is developed in Maryland. We find that the application often see
    >idiosyncracies that the developer in Maryland does not see. I


    It happens.

    That's will be from the developer's box to a thin client on the same
    desk he uses for testing :)

    >attribute this to the way to application handles the difference in the


    See the developer.

    >internet path somehow. Why should we see an application behave any
    >differently based on where it is relative to the server,(the longer
    >path?) or different path the data takes?


    That's what the internet and routing does. You can't determine the path,
    or the outgoing route is the same as the reverse, the performance of
    routing / switching between the 2 ends, or even fragmentation on devices
    you don't manage.

    >Not being an internet protocol expert, I can only surmise what is
    >happening to the data between the application server and our thin
    >clients on internet explorer. It appears that some data is not being
    >transmitted, not being acknowledged or possibly arriving in an order


    Then you have to see what the application is doing and most likely set
    up a packet sniffer on the connection in Michigan. Better yet a packet
    sniffer at both ends ....

    >differently than was intended. That seems hard to believe, since I


    you will see what's going in / out at both ends, as well as any retries,
    out of sequence issues issues worse at 1 end of he other.

    >would expect all the packets to be assembled in the proper order and
    >that internet protocol would allow for "resends" for data that never
    >made it.


    Well that's really what TCP/IP does.

    How the application handles the data is a different matter all together.

    It is only normal to get resends / out of sequence as well.

    Expect you don't want a lot of URLs about this, www.google.com will do
    anyway if you need some.

    Seems okay, might want to try
    http://www.tcpipguide.com/free/t_NetworkPerformanceIssuesandConcepts.htm


    >24hoursupport.helpdesk


    Yes. Were you expecting something else?

    Me
    why?, Feb 4, 2008
    #2
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  3. eganders

    PeeCee Guest

    Re: thin client experience different depending on where it is from the server

    "eganders" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > We have an internet application we use in Southeastern Michigan that
    > is developed in Maryland. We find that the application often see
    > idiosyncracies that the developer in Maryland does not see. I
    > attribute this to the way to application handles the difference in the
    > internet path somehow. Why should we see an application behave any
    > differently based on where it is relative to the server,(the longer
    > path?) or different path the data takes?
    >
    > Not being an internet protocol expert, I can only surmise what is
    > happening to the data between the application server and our thin
    > clients on internet explorer. It appears that some data is not being
    > transmitted, not being acknowledged or possibly arriving in an order
    > differently than was intended. That seems hard to believe, since I
    > would expect all the packets to be assembled in the proper order and
    > that internet protocol would allow for "resends" for data that never
    > made it.
    >
    > 24hoursupport.helpdesk




    One possible cause may be the subtle differences in the way you are using
    the application, particularly if it is a specialised bespoke app.
    If possible try and arrange for Maryland to watch by remote desktop how you
    handle it.

    Another one could be timing loops built into the app that don't cause any
    problems on a LAN but are timing out due to packet delays over distance.

    A clue as to what the 'idiosyncracies' are may help the members of the group
    suggest other possible causes.

    Best
    Paul.
    PeeCee, Feb 5, 2008
    #3
  4. eganders

    eganders Guest

    Re: thin client experience different depending on where it is fromthe server

    On Feb 5, 3:48 am, "PeeCee" <> wrote:
    > "eganders" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > We have an internet application we use in Southeastern Michigan that
    > > is developed in Maryland.  We find that the application often see
    > > idiosyncracies that the developer in Maryland does not see.  I
    > > attribute this to the way to application handles the difference in the
    > > internet path somehow.  Why should we see an application behave any
    > > differently based on where it is relative to the server,(the longer
    > > path?) or different path the data takes?

    >
    > > Not being an internet protocol expert, I can only surmise what is
    > > happening to the data between the application server and our thin
    > > clients on internet explorer.  It appears that some data is not being
    > > transmitted, not being acknowledged or possibly arriving in an order
    > > differently than was intended.  That seems hard to believe, since I
    > > would expect all the packets to be assembled in the proper order and
    > > that internet protocol would allow for "resends" for data that never
    > > made it.

    >
    > > 24hoursupport.helpdesk

    >
    > One possible cause may be the subtle differences in the way you are using
    > the application, particularly if it is a specialised bespoke app.
    > If possible try and arrange for Maryland to watch by remote desktop how you
    > handle it.
    >
    > Another one could be timing loops built into the app that don't cause any
    > problems on a LAN but are timing out due to packet delays over distance.
    >
    > A clue as to what the 'idiosyncracies' are may help the members of the group
    > suggest other possible causes.
    >
    > Best
    > Paul.- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    The application has several panes that display. There is a map, a
    listing of vehicles that show on the map, a message pane and a view/
    group selection pane above the map. The icons above the map allow you
    to click to zoom into and out of the map. The scrollbars allow you to
    scroll through the vehicle listing. The icons sometimes do not work,
    the scrollbars sometimes do not appear or sometimes the vehicle
    listing extends and hides behind the map. See what the application
    looks like below. The problems mentioned often are not seen by the
    developers. Is there a way to allow them to connect to the internet
    through a direct T1 line so they can experience what we see at our
    location?

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/eganders/SEMSIMscreenshotcopy.jpg
    eganders, Feb 7, 2008
    #4
  5. eganders

    why? Guest

    Re: thin client experience different depending on where it is from the server

    On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 20:56:08 -0800 (PST), eganders wrote:

    >On Feb 5, 3:48 am, "PeeCee" <> wrote:
    >> "eganders" <> wrote in message
    >>
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > We have an internet application we use in Southeastern Michigan that
    >> > is developed in Maryland.  We find that the application often see
    >> > idiosyncracies that the developer in Maryland does not see.  I
    >> > attribute this to the way to application handles the difference in the
    >> > internet path somehow.  Why should we see an application behave any
    >> > differently based on where it is relative to the server,(the longer
    >> > path?) or different path the data takes?

    >>
    >> > Not being an internet protocol expert, I can only surmise what is
    >> > happening to the data between the application server and our thin
    >> > clients on internet explorer.  It appears that some data is not being
    >> > transmitted, not being acknowledged or possibly arriving in an order
    >> > differently than was intended.  That seems hard to believe, since I
    >> > would expect all the packets to be assembled in the proper order and
    >> > that internet protocol would allow for "resends" for data that never
    >> > made it.

    >>
    >> > 24hoursupport.helpdesk

    >>
    >> One possible cause may be the subtle differences in the way you are using
    >> the application, particularly if it is a specialised bespoke app.
    >> If possible try and arrange for Maryland to watch by remote desktop how you
    >> handle it.
    >>
    >> Another one could be timing loops built into the app that don't cause any
    >> problems on a LAN but are timing out due to packet delays over distance.
    >>
    >> A clue as to what the 'idiosyncracies' are may help the members of the group
    >> suggest other possible causes.
    >>
    >> Best
    >> Paul.- Hide quoted text -
    >>
    >> - Show quoted text -

    >
    >The application has several panes that display. There is a map, a
    >listing of vehicles that show on the map, a message pane and a view/
    >group selection pane above the map. The icons above the map allow you
    >to click to zoom into and out of the map. The scrollbars allow you to


    So it's all Java or something else, with a backend database?

    >scroll through the vehicle listing. The icons sometimes do not work,


    You didn't say much about the browser.

    Think about this, since it's not possible to see the app running.

    The icons don't work how. That's a start. What's the code behind it and
    what are you expecting it to do.

    The page / data is sent a bit at a time, and not constructed and sent as
    a single page.

    >the scrollbars sometimes do not appear or sometimes the vehicle


    Other browsers.

    Valid HTML / Valid CSS.

    >listing extends and hides behind the map. See what the application


    A design issue.

    >looks like below. The problems mentioned often are not seen by the
    >developers. Is there a way to allow them to connect to the internet
    >through a direct T1 line so they can experience what we see at our
    >location?
    >
    >http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/eganders/SEMSIMscreenshotcopy.jpg


    They goto the site you are on.

    You mention the site you are in, the place it's developed. However you
    jumped straight into protocol issues. Was ths something you read about
    once?

    You never mentioned where the app is in relation to you, distance to
    server, but you also say the developer never sees an issue. You also
    never said how far away from the app they are, yet now you mention they
    may not have an internet connection or perhaps if they do it's not the
    same speed as yours.

    So make up a list of what you know, what's wrong, if the web apps is
    failing at some point try a Save As to see what's missing if anything.

    http://www.packetstorm.com/
    The PacketStorm IP Network Emulators and simulators reproduce the
    unfavorable conditions of IP Networks and WANs in a controllable and
    repeatable lab setting. PacketStorm is the Industry leader of Layer 2
    and Layer 3 WAN emulation and network bandwidth simulation.

    I seem to recall, a PC running Linux and the appropriate app can also
    simulate what the hardware above does.


    Me
    why?, Feb 7, 2008
    #5
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