Thermal paste... use it?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by The Other Guy, Nov 3, 2004.

  1. Hi,

    Just wondering if use of thermal paste supplied with heatsink/fan kits
    for Xeon processors should be used? these are not the retail Intel kits.

    I'm planning on moving processors around during future upgrades, and I'd
    rather not use it if not required.

    Thanks,

    The Other Guy
     
    The Other Guy, Nov 3, 2004
    #1
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  2. In article <418931bf$>, The Other Guy <> wrote:
    >Hi,
    >
    >Just wondering if use of thermal paste supplied with heatsink/fan kits
    >for Xeon processors should be used? these are not the retail Intel kits.
    >
    >I'm planning on moving processors around during future upgrades, and I'd
    >rather not use it if not required.
    >

    Definitely use it. It may not seem like much, but those few microns of
    gap between the CPU and the HSF base can make a lot of difference to how
    effectively the CPU is cooled.

    --
    Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
     
    Matthew Poole, Nov 3, 2004
    #2
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  3. The Other Guy

    Geronimo Guest

    On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 08:19:38 +1300, The Other Guy <> wrote:

    >Hi,
    >
    >Just wondering if use of thermal paste supplied with heatsink/fan kits
    >for Xeon processors should be used? these are not the retail Intel kits.
    >
    >I'm planning on moving processors around during future upgrades, and I'd
    >rather not use it if not required.
    >
    >Thanks,
    >
    >The Other Guy




    It has to be used..
     
    Geronimo, Nov 3, 2004
    #3
  4. The Other Guy

    Gurble Guest

    On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 08:19:38 +1300, The Other Guy <> had
    this to say:

    >Hi,
    >
    >Just wondering if use of thermal paste supplied with heatsink/fan kits
    >for Xeon processors should be used? these are not the retail Intel kits.
    >
    >I'm planning on moving processors around during future upgrades, and I'd
    >rather not use it if not required.


    There's two school of thoughts here.

    The first is that, yes, using Thermal Paste can make a
    reasonable-sized difference in the cooling of a processor, and hence
    it is a good thing.

    The second is that, in many circumstances, it will void your warranty.
    For instance, using the popular Artic Silver compound with an AMD
    processor affectively voids the warranty.

    This is because many/most of the thermal paste solutions actually
    conduct electricity, albeit with a reasonable resistance. This means
    that in theory, they can short the wee connections on the top of the
    processors, and potentially cause all sorts of problems.

    However, using the non-Intel supplied heatsink/fan on your Xeons might
    be technically voiding the warranty anyway. Note that there is often a
    difference to what technically voids a warranty and what AMD or Intel
    actually reject a warranty claim on.

    My advise is that, if you do use it, make sure you don't put too much
    on! We've seen some horror cases where people have basically drowned
    their processors in thermal goo, causing them to fail. You only need a
    tiny amount.

    HTH
     
    Gurble, Nov 3, 2004
    #4
  5. "Gurble" <> wrote in message
    news:p...

    > My advise is that, if you do use it, make sure you don't put too much
    > on! We've seen some horror cases where people have basically drowned
    > their processors in thermal goo, causing them to fail. You only need a
    > tiny amount.


    For values of "a tiny amount" between 1 and 2 cubic mm.

    Andrew
     
    Andrew Bryson, Nov 3, 2004
    #5
  6. The Other Guy

    Daver Guest

    You could try the thermal tape stuff often found on heatsinks. Same benefit
    but no mess.

    "The Other Guy" <> wrote in message
    news:418931bf$...
    > Hi,
    >
    > Just wondering if use of thermal paste supplied with heatsink/fan kits
    > for Xeon processors should be used? these are not the retail Intel kits.
    >
    > I'm planning on moving processors around during future upgrades, and I'd
    > rather not use it if not required.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > The Other Guy
     
    Daver, Nov 4, 2004
    #6
  7. In article <>, Gurble <> wrote:
    >On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 08:19:38 +1300, The Other Guy <> had
    >this to say:

    *SNIP*
    >The second is that, in many circumstances, it will void your warranty.
    >For instance, using the popular Artic Silver compound with an AMD
    >processor affectively voids the warranty.
    >

    *SNIP*

    Using a non-AMD heatsink/fan also voids the warranty. Doing anything
    with an AMD CPU that involves non-AMD parts voids the warranty.
    Thankfully NZ law is a little more intelligent, and a CPU warranty is
    not automatically void just because you used non-AMD cooling. Drowning
    the CPU in metal-based thermal paste would probably not be accepted,
    though.

    Arctic Silver make a non-metallic paste, called Ceramique, that is
    absolutely non-conductive. Seems to work pretty well, too.

    --
    Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
     
    Matthew Poole, Nov 4, 2004
    #7
  8. In article <> in nz.comp on
    Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:08:07 +1300, Gurble <> says...
    > On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 08:19:38 +1300, The Other Guy <> had
    > this to say:
    >
    > >Hi,
    > >
    > >Just wondering if use of thermal paste supplied with heatsink/fan kits
    > >for Xeon processors should be used? these are not the retail Intel kits.
    > >
    > >I'm planning on moving processors around during future upgrades, and I'd
    > >rather not use it if not required.

    >
    > There's two school of thoughts here.
    >
    > The first is that, yes, using Thermal Paste can make a
    > reasonable-sized difference in the cooling of a processor, and hence
    > it is a good thing.
    >
    > The second is that, in many circumstances, it will void your warranty.
    > For instance, using the popular Artic Silver compound with an AMD
    > processor affectively voids the warranty.
    >
    > This is because many/most of the thermal paste solutions actually
    > conduct electricity, albeit with a reasonable resistance. This means
    > that in theory, they can short the wee connections on the top of the
    > processors, and potentially cause all sorts of problems.
    >
    > However, using the non-Intel supplied heatsink/fan on your Xeons might
    > be technically voiding the warranty anyway. Note that there is often a
    > difference to what technically voids a warranty and what AMD or Intel
    > actually reject a warranty claim on.
    >
    > My advise is that, if you do use it, make sure you don't put too much
    > on! We've seen some horror cases where people have basically drowned
    > their processors in thermal goo, causing them to fail. You only need a
    > tiny amount.


    It's only the chip in the middle that actually conducts the heat on
    modern CPUs, not like the old K6s with a big wide can that contacted
    nearly all of the chip surface.
     
    Patrick Dunford, Nov 4, 2004
    #8
  9. In article <>, Patrick Dunford <> wrote:
    >In article <> in nz.comp on
    >Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:08:07 +1300, Gurble <> says...

    *SNIP*
    >It's only the chip in the middle that actually conducts the heat on
    >modern CPUs, not like the old K6s with a big wide can that contacted
    >nearly all of the chip surface.


    I suggest you look a little more closely at A64 CPUs, then, Patrick.
    Their entire top surface is a flat metal square.
    Intel could learn something from this type of design, since it's got to
    be a more efficient thermal dissipator than a mound of silicon in the
    middle of a PCB.

    --
    Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
     
    Matthew Poole, Nov 4, 2004
    #9
  10. Matthew Poole wrote:
    > I suggest you look a little more closely at A64 CPUs, then, Patrick.
    > Their entire top surface is a flat metal square.
    > Intel could learn something from this type of design, since it's got to
    > be a more efficient thermal dissipator than a mound of silicon in the
    > middle of a PCB.


    The Xeon CPUs I have have a large metal surface as well, with some outer
    components. I decided to use a little of the paste as recommended.

    The Other Guy
     
    The Other Guy, Nov 4, 2004
    #10
  11. The Other Guy

    ~misfit~ Guest

    The Other Guy wrote:
    > Matthew Poole wrote:
    >> I suggest you look a little more closely at A64 CPUs, then, Patrick.
    >> Their entire top surface is a flat metal square.
    >> Intel could learn something from this type of design, since it's got
    >> to be a more efficient thermal dissipator than a mound of silicon in
    >> the middle of a PCB.

    >
    > The Xeon CPUs I have have a large metal surface as well, with some
    > outer components. I decided to use a little of the paste as
    > recommended.


    Good move. I for one wouldn't assemble a system without some form of thermal
    interface material between CPU and heatsink. Unless it was a Pentium 1 or
    earlier machine.
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Nov 4, 2004
    #11
  12. The Other Guy

    Geronimo Guest

    On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 20:36:37 GMT, (Matthew Poole) wrote:

    >In article <>, Patrick Dunford <> wrote:
    >>In article <> in nz.comp on
    >>Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:08:07 +1300, Gurble <> says...

    >*SNIP*
    >>It's only the chip in the middle that actually conducts the heat on
    >>modern CPUs, not like the old K6s with a big wide can that contacted
    >>nearly all of the chip surface.

    >
    >I suggest you look a little more closely at A64 CPUs, then, Patrick.
    >Their entire top surface is a flat metal square.
    >Intel could learn something from this type of design, since it's got to
    >be a more efficient thermal dissipator than a mound of silicon in the
    >middle of a PCB.




    Seems you haver not looked at a P4...?
     
    Geronimo, Nov 4, 2004
    #12
  13. ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Good move. I for one wouldn't assemble a system without some form of thermal
    > interface material between CPU and heatsink. Unless it was a Pentium 1 or
    > earlier machine.


    heh, I have a pentium 200 running at 100(33Mhz bus instead of 66) anf no
    HS at all.
    It's fine... well, it has been for the last year, and if it fails, I'll
    put another CPU in its place.

    it gets warm, but not too hot to touch.

    --
    Dave Hall
    http://www.dave.net.nz
    http://www.karyn.net.nz
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Nov 5, 2004
    #13
  14. In article <cme0c5$9q5$> in nz.comp on Thu, 04 Nov 2004
    20:36:37 GMT, Matthew Poole <> says...
    > In article <>, Patrick Dunford <> wrote:
    > >In article <> in nz.comp on
    > >Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:08:07 +1300, Gurble <> says...

    > *SNIP*
    > >It's only the chip in the middle that actually conducts the heat on
    > >modern CPUs, not like the old K6s with a big wide can that contacted
    > >nearly all of the chip surface.

    >
    > I suggest you look a little more closely at A64 CPUs, then, Patrick.
    > Their entire top surface is a flat metal square.


    No, haven't seen that one, only Athlons and the like with a chip in the
    middle of the package.

    Sounds like back to the k6 type package.

    > Intel could learn something from this type of design, since it's got to
    > be a more efficient thermal dissipator than a mound of silicon in the
    > middle of a PCB.


    It really depends on the package and some other factors including the
    thermal interface. Some years ago power transistors changed almost
    universally from large metal can packages to smaller plastic packages
    with a metal interface surface.
     
    Patrick Dunford, Nov 5, 2004
    #14
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