The three things that annoy my with digital

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by BG250, Sep 28, 2004.

  1. BG250

    BG250 Guest

    1. Too many card formats. I find a second compact I like to use with or when
    not carrying the dSLR, it takes a different card! Now I have to stock up on
    another format.

    2. Proprietary Lithium Ion batteries, While necessary for the very small
    cameras, every maker has to have their own style. Some are even obsolete in
    the next model ARRGH! There are some compacts, like Sony models using 2 AA
    batteries. You could even use Alkaline in a pinch. Li-ion are expensive when
    a second or replacement is necessary. You can get a four pack of Ni-mh AA's
    for around $10.

    3. New smaller sensors. Noisy and some suffer from lessened dynamic range.
    One big ARRGH!! If anything, digital needs MORE dynamic range!

    bg
    BG250, Sep 28, 2004
    #1
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  2. BG250

    Mark Weaver Guest

    "BG250" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > 2. Proprietary Lithium Ion batteries, While necessary for the very small
    > cameras, every maker has to have their own style. Some are even obsolete

    in
    > the next model ARRGH! There are some compacts, like Sony models using 2 AA
    > batteries. You could even use Alkaline in a pinch. Li-ion are expensive

    when
    > a second or replacement is necessary. You can get a four pack of Ni-mh

    AA's
    > for around $10.
    >


    I prefer the proprietary Li batteries -- more power means they last longer
    and are more compact than AAs. And compared to the cost of the camera,
    they're quite cheap. An extra 3rd party battery for canons runs about $10
    (and it fits both my digicam and video camera).

    > 3. New smaller sensors. Noisy and some suffer from lessened dynamic range.
    > One big ARRGH!! If anything, digital needs MORE dynamic range!
    >


    The smaller sensors make it possible to produce smaller cameras and smaller
    and faster zoom lenses. Also live preview and video modes. It's true that
    most of these cameras aren't great at ISO400, but arguably no worse than 400
    film (especially if you apply a bit of noise reduction to the images). I
    would like to have the two extra stops of 'film speed' you get with a
    DSLR -- but not at the cost of compactness, lens speed, live preview and
    video clips.

    Mark
    Mark Weaver, Sep 28, 2004
    #2
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  3. BG250

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: "BG250"

    > ... or when not carrying the dSLR ...


    If you have a dSLR I'm surprised you didn't mention sensor dust :)
    Bill Hilton, Sep 28, 2004
    #3
  4. Its rough being an early adopter....hold off for another twenty years and
    things will standardize.

    Things I hate about film photography.....the glass plates keep
    breaking....and they dry out too fast. The darkroom tent is a pain to pack
    on the mule...and I think the cyanide gasses might be bad for my health.


    "BG250" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > 1. Too many card formats. I find a second compact I like to use with or

    when
    > not carrying the dSLR, it takes a different card! Now I have to stock up

    on
    > another format.
    >
    > 2. Proprietary Lithium Ion batteries, While necessary for the very small
    > cameras, every maker has to have their own style. Some are even obsolete

    in
    > the next model ARRGH! There are some compacts, like Sony models using 2 AA
    > batteries. You could even use Alkaline in a pinch. Li-ion are expensive

    when
    > a second or replacement is necessary. You can get a four pack of Ni-mh

    AA's
    > for around $10.
    >
    > 3. New smaller sensors. Noisy and some suffer from lessened dynamic range.
    > One big ARRGH!! If anything, digital needs MORE dynamic range!
    >
    > bg
    >
    >
    Gene Palmiter, Sep 28, 2004
    #4
  5. BG250

    Robert Barr Guest

    I prefer the lithium ions, but I wouldn't base a camera choice on that
    aspect.

    What annoys me: Those damned LED's that change color. They'll glow red
    for one situation and green for another -- focus acquisition, camera
    shake, etcetera. They're also on rechargers, to glow red when the
    batteries are charging and green when they're done.

    That's really handy UNLESS YOU'RE RED - GREEN COLORBLIND!

    In my case, these are absolutely useless. When I see an LED glowing, it
    means nothing -- unless it's the difference between a solid and a
    blinking light.

    NICE JOB, GUYS!

    I realize the dual-color LED's probably save the manufacturer a few
    cents in production costs. That's comforting when I pay $$$$ for a
    digital camera.
    Robert Barr, Sep 28, 2004
    #5
  6. BG250 wrote:
    > 1. Too many card formats. I find a second compact I like to use with
    > or when not carrying the dSLR, it takes a different card! Now I have
    > to stock up on another format.


    Why not buy cameras which use the same standard, e.g. Compact Flash?

    > 2. Proprietary Lithium Ion batteries, While necessary for the very
    > small cameras, every maker has to have their own style. Some are even
    > obsolete in the next model ARRGH! There are some compacts, like Sony
    > models using 2 AA batteries. You could even use Alkaline in a pinch.
    > Li-ion are expensive when a second or replacement is necessary. You
    > can get a four pack of Ni-mh AA's for around $10.


    Why not buy cameras that use AA batteries?

    > 3. New smaller sensors. Noisy and some suffer from lessened dynamic
    > range. One big ARRGH!! If anything, digital needs MORE dynamic range!
    >
    > bg


    So buy the previous generation of sensors - 5MP not 8MP!

    (We are actually considering which stabilised camera to buy - Nikon 8800,
    Canon S1 IS or Panasonic FZ-20, and the battery and storage compatibility
    with a Nikon 990 do indeed enter the considerations, but we don't feel we
    being forced in a direction we don't want to go).

    It seems that everything which annoys you is actually under your own
    control....

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Sep 28, 2004
    #6
  7. BG250 wrote:
    > 1. Too many card formats. I find a second compact I like to use with or
    > when
    > not carrying the dSLR, it takes a different card! Now I have to stock up
    > on
    > another format.
    >
    > 2. Proprietary Lithium Ion batteries, While necessary for the very small
    > cameras, every maker has to have their own style. Some are even obsolete
    > in
    > the next model ARRGH! There are some compacts, like Sony models using 2 AA
    > batteries. You could even use Alkaline in a pinch. Li-ion are expensive
    > when
    > a second or replacement is necessary. You can get a four pack of Ni-mh
    > AA's
    > for around $10.
    >
    > 3. New smaller sensors. Noisy and some suffer from lessened dynamic range.
    > One big ARRGH!! If anything, digital needs MORE dynamic range!
    >
    > bg


    I really hated film cameras, different film sizes different film types,
    odd meter batteries, PC connections then they got hotshoes they even all had
    different lens mounts, and just when you thought you had it figured out by
    staying with one manufacturer they changed their mount. Such is life.

    --
    Joseph E. Meehan

    26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
    Joseph Meehan, Sep 28, 2004
    #7
  8. BG250

    Ken Weitzel Guest

    Gene Palmiter wrote:
    > Its rough being an early adopter....hold off for another twenty years and
    > things will standardize.
    >
    > Things I hate about film photography.....the glass plates keep
    > breaking....and they dry out too fast. The darkroom tent is a pain to pack
    > on the mule...and I think the cyanide gasses might be bad for my health.


    Worse yet is I keep starting fires with the flash powder.
    Near enough to burned the hut down!!

    Ken
    Ken Weitzel, Sep 28, 2004
    #8
  9. BG250

    scott Guest

    "BG250" <> wrote in message
    news:
    > 1. Too many card formats. I find a second compact I like to use
    > with or when not carrying the dSLR, it takes a different card! Now
    > I have to stock up on another format.
    >
    > 2. Proprietary Lithium Ion batteries, While necessary for the very
    > small cameras, every maker has to have their own style. Some are
    > even obsolete in the next model ARRGH! There are some compacts,
    > like Sony models using 2 AA batteries. You could even use Alkaline
    > in a pinch. Li-ion are expensive when a second or replacement is
    > necessary. You can get a four pack of Ni-mh AA's for around $10.
    >
    > 3. New smaller sensors. Noisy and some suffer from lessened dynamic
    > range. One big ARRGH!! If anything, digital needs MORE dynamic
    > range!


    I just sold my Canon A40 to my sis, seems like that would suit you
    perfectly. Takes compact flash (same as my dSLR), standard AAs, and has a
    bigger sensor than the new smaller ones.
    scott, Sep 28, 2004
    #9
  10. BG250

    Rick Guest

    "BG250" <> wrote in message news:...
    > 1. Too many card formats. I find a second compact I like to use with or when
    > not carrying the dSLR, it takes a different card! Now I have to stock up on
    > another format.


    Agreed.

    > 2. Proprietary Lithium Ion batteries, While necessary for the very small
    > cameras, every maker has to have their own style. Some are even obsolete in
    > the next model ARRGH! There are some compacts, like Sony models using 2 AA
    > batteries. You could even use Alkaline in a pinch. Li-ion are expensive when
    > a second or replacement is necessary. You can get a four pack of Ni-mh AA's
    > for around $10.


    I disagree. It's tremendously useful and worth the extra cost to
    many people to know exactly how much battery time is remaining.

    > 3. New smaller sensors. Noisy and some suffer from lessened dynamic range.
    > One big ARRGH!! If anything, digital needs MORE dynamic range!


    Couldn't agree more. Older is better in many cases. The other
    post that mentions the Canon A40 is a good example. It runs
    rings around our new 3MP S1 IS with regard to dynamic range
    and chromatic aberration.

    Rick
    Rick, Sep 28, 2004
    #10
  11. >>>>An extra 3rd party battery for canons runs about $10 (and it fits both
    >>>>my digicam and video camera).


    What brand did you get that you are happy with, I am curious. I got a pair
    of generic NB-3L's at Best Buy and they were awful. IF they worked, they
    had a fraction of the operating time that the name brand Canon's had, and
    much of the time the "change battery" message came on as soon as I put them
    in the camera. Sometimes they would work for a handful of shots before the
    "change battery message". Thankfully, Best Buy took both of them back for
    a full refund without a shrug. But if you know of a generic that genuinely
    works as well as the Canon's I would be happy to try it!
    Douglas W. Hoyt, Sep 28, 2004
    #11
  12. "BG250" <> writes:

    > 1. Too many card formats. I find a second compact I like to use with or when
    > not carrying the dSLR, it takes a different card! Now I have to stock up on
    > another format.


    My wife has cameras from Canon, and I have a CoolPix 990 or 995, I forget
    which. All take Compact Flash. I suspect smaller cameras have a need for a
    smaller flash card. None of this is an issue for us, as we keep each camera
    stocked with its own set of cards. It seems each camera formats the CFs
    differently, so mixing them (with formatting in the computer) causes
    problems with reading and storing images. Using a different format for
    different cameras would help us keep track of cards specific to the camera.

    > 2. Proprietary Lithium Ion batteries, While necessary for the very small
    > cameras, every maker has to have their own style. Some are even obsolete in


    True, but the reason for proprietary (I think) is that each camera has a
    battery which fits its moods, err, needs for energy and size. Louise and I
    are amateur radio operators, and we have the same situation for handheld
    radios.

    > the next model ARRGH! There are some compacts, like Sony models using 2 AA
    > batteries. You could even use Alkaline in a pinch. Li-ion are expensive when
    > a second or replacement is necessary. You can get a four pack of Ni-mh AA's
    > for around $10.


    My CoolPix runs on AAs, a requirement. Our ham radios also take AAs in
    addition to their proprietary batteries. The problem is that AAs don't have
    the power for all the bells and whistles on modern cameras and radios
    unless you're willing to use six or eight of them, which gets heavy. Small,
    lightweight cameras pretty much rule out AAs and rule in Li-Ions. My
    impression is that Li-Ions deliver more energy per weight and volume than
    AA NiMHs.

    I much prefer having AAs available as an alternative, as Louise and I are
    frequently in situations where we can't count on having enough of the
    proprietary batteries available and can't recharge.

    --
    Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
    Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip@
    http://www.PhilipStripling.com/ | my domain is read daily.
    Phil Stripling, Sep 28, 2004
    #12
  13. BG250

    Mark B. Guest

    "BG250" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > 1. Too many card formats. I find a second compact I like to use with or
    > when
    > not carrying the dSLR, it takes a different card! Now I have to stock up
    > on
    > another format.
    >


    I guess I got lucky, all my digicams take CF. I started with an Epson 850z,
    then Canon G1, D30, and now a 10D. The A70 my wife uses even uses CF.

    > 2. Proprietary Lithium Ion batteries, While necessary for the very small
    > cameras, every maker has to have their own style. Some are even obsolete
    > in
    > the next model ARRGH! There are some compacts, like Sony models using 2 AA
    > batteries. You could even use Alkaline in a pinch. Li-ion are expensive
    > when
    > a second or replacement is necessary. You can get a four pack of Ni-mh
    > AA's
    > for around $10.
    >


    I really don't mind Lithion Ions. Loooong battery life mean I don't have to
    carry as many AA. And in my case, compatability won't be a problem for a
    while. The BP-511 in my 10D was introduced in the Canon G1, then used in
    the D30, D60, 10D, and will now work in the 20D. They are also used in the
    Gx series. The 20D does come with a higher capacity BP-511A, but the first
    versions still work.

    > 3. New smaller sensors. Noisy and some suffer from lessened dynamic range.
    > One big ARRGH!! If anything, digital needs MORE dynamic range!
    >


    That does seem to be the way consumer digicams are going. To get a 1/1.8"
    sensor or larger, you need to look at higher end digicams or DSLRs.

    Mark
    Mark B., Sep 29, 2004
    #13
  14. In article <TLh6d.8834$>,
    Robert Barr <> wrote:

    > What annoys me: Those damned LED's that change color. They'll glow red
    > for one situation and green for another -- focus acquisition, camera
    > shake, etcetera. They're also on rechargers, to glow red when the
    > batteries are charging and green when they're done.
    >
    > That's really handy UNLESS YOU'RE RED - GREEN COLORBLIND!
    >
    > In my case, these are absolutely useless. When I see an LED glowing, it
    > means nothing -- unless it's the difference between a solid and a
    > blinking light.
    >
    > NICE JOB, GUYS!



    A mate of mine is R/G colour blind. He carries a little filter about the
    size of his thumbnail, red on the left, green on the right. When he
    strikes your situation he checks the LED through the filters.

    --
    Nigel C ....(rearrange address for email)
    Nigel Crompton, Sep 29, 2004
    #14
  15. On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:54:24 -0400, "BG250" <> wrote:

    >1. Too many card formats. I find a second compact I like to use with or when
    >not carrying the dSLR, it takes a different card! Now I have to stock up on
    >another format.
    >


    Don't buy Sony. Most of the rest of the world can use CF. I use the
    same cards interchangeably between my Oly E20N and my Nikon D-70.
    Same format, just a different directory and each camera makes its own.

    >2. Proprietary Lithium Ion batteries, While necessary for the very small
    >cameras, every maker has to have their own style. Some are even obsolete in
    >the next model ARRGH! There are some compacts, like Sony models using 2 AA
    >batteries. You could even use Alkaline in a pinch. Li-ion are expensive when
    >a second or replacement is necessary. You can get a four pack of Ni-mh AA's
    >for around $10.


    The Oly uses 4 rechargeable AAs while the D-70 does use a proprietary
    battery, it comes with a batter holder to use regular batteries.

    >
    >3. New smaller sensors. Noisy and some suffer from lessened dynamic range.
    >One big ARRGH!! If anything, digital needs MORE dynamic range!


    Neither of mine suffers from that. Nor is noise a problem at
    realistic ASA settings. If I want long time exposures I can use dark
    frame subtraction. I haven't noticed sensors getting smaller,
    they've slowly been getting larger, but it appears the camera makers
    are going to settle for the APS size which does well compared to the
    way most film is used.

    Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
    (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
    www.rogerhalstead.com

    >
    >bg
    >
    Roger Halstead, Sep 29, 2004
    #15
  16. Roger Halstead <> writes:

    > On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:54:24 -0400, "BG250" <> wrote:
    >
    > >1. Too many card formats. I find a second compact I like to use with or when
    > >not carrying the dSLR, it takes a different card! Now I have to stock up on
    > >another format.
    > >

    >
    > Don't buy Sony. Most of the rest of the world can use CF. I use the
    > same cards interchangeably between my Oly E20N and my Nikon D-70.
    > Same format, just a different directory and each camera makes its own.


    The Sony 828 now supports both MS and CF cards.

    > >2. Proprietary Lithium Ion batteries, While necessary for the very small
    > >cameras, every maker has to have their own style. Some are even obsolete in
    > >the next model ARRGH! There are some compacts, like Sony models using 2 AA
    > >batteries. You could even use Alkaline in a pinch. Li-ion are expensive when
    > >a second or replacement is necessary. You can get a four pack of Ni-mh AA's
    > >for around $10.


    Note, some cameras can't use Alkalines, since fresh alkies have a charge of 1.5
    volts instead of 1.2, and alkalines aren't suited for high drain things like
    digital cameras (the starter AA's that came with my camera 2 years ago lasted
    for maybe 10 shots).

    > The Oly uses 4 rechargeable AAs while the D-70 does use a proprietary
    > battery, it comes with a batter holder to use regular batteries.


    Ummm used to be, but not now. Olympus changed to using a Lithium-Ion battery
    in their cameras last year.

    --
    Michael Meissner
    email:
    http://www.the-meissners.org
    Michael Meissner, Sep 29, 2004
    #16
  17. BG250

    BG250 Guest

    I have the dRebel, but I actually never had dust spots yet. I'm very careful
    to keep it capped or have a lens attached. I point the camera down to change
    lenses. I try to keep the camera bag clean. It has worked so far, but I'm
    sure dust will get in at some point.
    bg

    "Bill Hilton" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >From: "BG250"

    >
    > > ... or when not carrying the dSLR ...

    >
    > If you have a dSLR I'm surprised you didn't mention sensor dust :)
    >
    >
    BG250, Sep 30, 2004
    #17
  18. BG250

    BG250 Guest

    I've looked at the Canon A75 and A85, but the image quality fell short of my
    Fuji 3MP (1/1.8 sensor). I'm not finding a camera that meets all the
    criteria. I may consider a camera with a different memory format as that
    gives me some more options.
    bg

    "David J Taylor" <-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk>
    wrote in message news:SPh6d.67$...
    > BG250 wrote:
    > > 1. Too many card formats. I find a second compact I like to use with
    > > or when not carrying the dSLR, it takes a different card! Now I have
    > > to stock up on another format.

    >
    > Why not buy cameras which use the same standard, e.g. Compact Flash?
    >
    > > 2. Proprietary Lithium Ion batteries, While necessary for the very
    > > small cameras, every maker has to have their own style. Some are even
    > > obsolete in the next model ARRGH! There are some compacts, like Sony
    > > models using 2 AA batteries. You could even use Alkaline in a pinch.
    > > Li-ion are expensive when a second or replacement is necessary. You
    > > can get a four pack of Ni-mh AA's for around $10.

    >
    > Why not buy cameras that use AA batteries?
    >
    > > 3. New smaller sensors. Noisy and some suffer from lessened dynamic
    > > range. One big ARRGH!! If anything, digital needs MORE dynamic range!
    > >
    > > bg

    >
    > So buy the previous generation of sensors - 5MP not 8MP!
    >
    > (We are actually considering which stabilised camera to buy - Nikon 8800,
    > Canon S1 IS or Panasonic FZ-20, and the battery and storage compatibility
    > with a Nikon 990 do indeed enter the considerations, but we don't feel we
    > being forced in a direction we don't want to go).
    >
    > It seems that everything which annoys you is actually under your own
    > control....
    >
    > Cheers,
    > David
    >
    >
    BG250, Sep 30, 2004
    #18
  19. BG250

    BG250 Guest

    Apples to oranges...
    The lensmount was the only issue I had. I used a manual camera, worked in
    the 35mm format, used the standard PC socket and basic flash. I had lots of
    choices with add-ons. It was much easier to choose a film compact as well.

    The digital compact market is awry with different standards.

    "Joseph Meehan" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:7i6d.10733$...
    > BG250 wrote:
    > > 1. Too many card formats. I find a second compact I like to use with or
    > > when
    > > not carrying the dSLR, it takes a different card! Now I have to stock up
    > > on
    > > another format.
    > >
    > > 2. Proprietary Lithium Ion batteries, While necessary for the very small
    > > cameras, every maker has to have their own style. Some are even obsolete
    > > in
    > > the next model ARRGH! There are some compacts, like Sony models using 2

    AA
    > > batteries. You could even use Alkaline in a pinch. Li-ion are expensive
    > > when
    > > a second or replacement is necessary. You can get a four pack of Ni-mh
    > > AA's
    > > for around $10.
    > >
    > > 3. New smaller sensors. Noisy and some suffer from lessened dynamic

    range.
    > > One big ARRGH!! If anything, digital needs MORE dynamic range!
    > >
    > > bg

    >
    > I really hated film cameras, different film sizes different film

    types,
    > odd meter batteries, PC connections then they got hotshoes they even all

    had
    > different lens mounts, and just when you thought you had it figured out by
    > staying with one manufacturer they changed their mount. Such is life.
    >
    > --
    > Joseph E. Meehan
    >
    > 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
    >
    >
    >
    BG250, Sep 30, 2004
    #19
  20. BG250

    Guest

    In message <>,
    "BG250" <> wrote:

    >I have the dRebel, but I actually never had dust spots yet. I'm very careful
    >to keep it capped or have a lens attached. I point the camera down to change
    >lenses. I try to keep the camera bag clean. It has worked so far, but I'm
    >sure dust will get in at some point.


    If you're not shooting simple textures like blue sky at tiny apertures,
    you may not notice the dust. At larger apertures, dust may only slighty
    darken a wide area around the particle and slightly lower the contrast;
    virtually imperceptible.
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
    , Oct 7, 2004
    #20
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