The shutdown mystery solved? thanks to all

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Geopelia, Jul 2, 2006.

  1. Geopelia

    Geopelia Guest

    The mystery shutdown that folks have been helping me with might be solved.

    This morning there was a loud bang outside, and about half the power went
    off, a few things in the house worked but most just flickered a bit. I shut
    everything down and checked all the fuses, then the neighbour came to say
    their power was off too. Several houses had lost power.

    The big green box by the power pole had blown something, being Sunday the
    part they needed to repair it had to be sent for, and the power was off most
    of the day. The power man was up and down the ladder disconnecting stuff and
    cutting cables around the box etc. (No, I didn't see any rusty shackles!)

    So I think something must have been wrong inside the box for a while and
    caused the mystery shutdown.

    Your help is much appreciated.

    Geopelia
     
    Geopelia, Jul 2, 2006
    #1
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  2. Geopelia

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "Geopelia" <> wrote in message
    news:e88chg$5ut$...
    > The mystery shutdown that folks have been helping me with might be
    > solved.
    >
    > This morning there was a loud bang outside, and about half the power went
    > off, a few things in the house worked but most just flickered a bit. I
    > shut everything down and checked all the fuses, then the neighbour came to
    > say their power was off too. Several houses had lost power.
    >
    > The big green box by the power pole had blown something, being Sunday the
    > part they needed to repair it had to be sent for, and the power was off
    > most of the day. The power man was up and down the ladder disconnecting
    > stuff and cutting cables around the box etc. (No, I didn't see any rusty
    > shackles!)
    >
    > So I think something must have been wrong inside the box for a while and
    > caused the mystery shutdown.
    >
    > Your help is much appreciated.
    >
    > Geopelia


    It would've crashed the computer straight away, a power cut wouldn't have
    shut it down normally with XP unloading first.
    Hope it keeps going well for you.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jul 2, 2006
    #2
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  3. Geopelia

    Geopelia Guest

    "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz (*sling)> wrote in message
    news:1151843102.664188@ftpsrv1...
    >
    > "Geopelia" <> wrote in message
    > news:e88chg$5ut$...
    >> The mystery shutdown that folks have been helping me with might be
    >> solved.
    >>
    >> This morning there was a loud bang outside, and about half the power went
    >> off, a few things in the house worked but most just flickered a bit. I
    >> shut everything down and checked all the fuses, then the neighbour came
    >> to say their power was off too. Several houses had lost power.
    >>
    >> The big green box by the power pole had blown something, being Sunday the
    >> part they needed to repair it had to be sent for, and the power was off
    >> most of the day. The power man was up and down the ladder disconnecting
    >> stuff and cutting cables around the box etc. (No, I didn't see any rusty
    >> shackles!)
    >>
    >> So I think something must have been wrong inside the box for a while and
    >> caused the mystery shutdown.
    >>
    >> Your help is much appreciated.
    >>
    >> Geopelia

    >
    > It would've crashed the computer straight away, a power cut wouldn't have
    > shut it down normally with XP unloading first.
    > Hope it keeps going well for you.
    >
    > E. Scrooge

    We might have been getting only threequarter power or something.
     
    Geopelia, Jul 2, 2006
    #3
  4. Geopelia

    David Guest

    Geopelia wrote:
    > "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz (*sling)> wrote in message
    > news:1151843102.664188@ftpsrv1...
    >> "Geopelia" <> wrote in message
    >> news:e88chg$5ut$...
    >>> The mystery shutdown that folks have been helping me with might be
    >>> solved.
    >>>
    >>> This morning there was a loud bang outside, and about half the power went
    >>> off, a few things in the house worked but most just flickered a bit. I
    >>> shut everything down and checked all the fuses, then the neighbour came
    >>> to say their power was off too. Several houses had lost power.
    >>>
    >>> The big green box by the power pole had blown something, being Sunday the
    >>> part they needed to repair it had to be sent for, and the power was off
    >>> most of the day. The power man was up and down the ladder disconnecting
    >>> stuff and cutting cables around the box etc. (No, I didn't see any rusty
    >>> shackles!)
    >>>
    >>> So I think something must have been wrong inside the box for a while and
    >>> caused the mystery shutdown.
    >>>
    >>> Your help is much appreciated.
    >>>
    >>> Geopelia

    >> It would've crashed the computer straight away, a power cut wouldn't have
    >> shut it down normally with XP unloading first.
    >> Hope it keeps going well for you.
    >>
    >> E. Scrooge

    > We might have been getting only threequarter power or something.
    >
    >


    Still, a poor electricity supply would not initiate a propery shutdown,
    it could just screw around with your memory, corrupting stuff and
    causing unpredictable behaviour, but more likely it would kill the whole
    system instantly.
     
    David, Jul 2, 2006
    #4
  5. Geopelia

    Brendan Guest

    On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 00:51:22 +1200, Geopelia wrote:

    > "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz (*sling)> wrote in message
    > news:1151843102.664188@ftpsrv1...
    >>
    >> "Geopelia" <> wrote in message
    >> news:e88chg$5ut$...
    >>> The mystery shutdown that folks have been helping me with might be
    >>> solved.
    >>>
    >>> This morning there was a loud bang outside, and about half the power went
    >>> off, a few things in the house worked but most just flickered a bit. I
    >>> shut everything down and checked all the fuses, then the neighbour came
    >>> to say their power was off too. Several houses had lost power.
    >>>
    >>> The big green box by the power pole had blown something, being Sunday the
    >>> part they needed to repair it had to be sent for, and the power was off
    >>> most of the day. The power man was up and down the ladder disconnecting
    >>> stuff and cutting cables around the box etc. (No, I didn't see any rusty
    >>> shackles!)
    >>>
    >>> So I think something must have been wrong inside the box for a while and
    >>> caused the mystery shutdown.
    >>>
    >>> Your help is much appreciated.
    >>>
    >>> Geopelia

    >>
    >> It would've crashed the computer straight away, a power cut wouldn't have
    >> shut it down normally with XP unloading first.
    >> Hope it keeps going well for you.
    >>
    >> E. Scrooge

    > We might have been getting only threequarter power or something.


    Ignore scrooge.

    What can happen sometimes is when XP detects a 'faulty' component, it will
    shut down in a semi-orderly way. It can't necesarily tell the difference
    between faulty and poor power supply.

    It's also possible it decided it was running on batteries and they were
    dying.

    I consider both of these to be pretty unlikly. Usually this behaviour is
    buggy drivers. If it's faulty hardware, or overheating hardware, you just
    get a restart - like you flipped the power at the wall.

    Viruses don't tend to do it - not destructive enough. Unless they are buggy
    and futsing with drivers.

    Anyway see how it goes, let us know.

    --

    .... Brendan

    #1578 +(4919)- [X]

    <calin> we had a guy at school that wore black lipstick.. and was all
    gothy.. and then one day we caught him buying an assvibrator
    <ecoli> ew.
    <ecoli> wait, you "caught" him?
    <ecoli> like, you were behind him in line at the assvibrator store?
    <Aero> he doesnt answer
    *** Quits: calin (No route to host)


    Note: All my comments are copyright 3/07/2006 1:26:05 a.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.
     
    Brendan, Jul 2, 2006
    #5
  6. Geopelia

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "Brendan" <> wrote in message
    news:fppolkg9o8lr$...
    > On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 00:51:22 +1200, Geopelia wrote:
    >
    >> "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz (*sling)> wrote in message
    >> news:1151843102.664188@ftpsrv1...
    >>>
    >>> "Geopelia" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:e88chg$5ut$...
    >>>> The mystery shutdown that folks have been helping me with might be
    >>>> solved.
    >>>>
    >>>> This morning there was a loud bang outside, and about half the power
    >>>> went
    >>>> off, a few things in the house worked but most just flickered a bit. I
    >>>> shut everything down and checked all the fuses, then the neighbour came
    >>>> to say their power was off too. Several houses had lost power.
    >>>>
    >>>> The big green box by the power pole had blown something, being Sunday
    >>>> the
    >>>> part they needed to repair it had to be sent for, and the power was off
    >>>> most of the day. The power man was up and down the ladder disconnecting
    >>>> stuff and cutting cables around the box etc. (No, I didn't see any
    >>>> rusty
    >>>> shackles!)
    >>>>
    >>>> So I think something must have been wrong inside the box for a while
    >>>> and
    >>>> caused the mystery shutdown.
    >>>>
    >>>> Your help is much appreciated.
    >>>>
    >>>> Geopelia
    >>>
    >>> It would've crashed the computer straight away, a power cut wouldn't
    >>> have
    >>> shut it down normally with XP unloading first.
    >>> Hope it keeps going well for you.
    >>>
    >>> E. Scrooge

    >> We might have been getting only threequarter power or something.

    >
    > Ignore scrooge.
    >
    > What can happen sometimes is when XP detects a 'faulty' component, it will
    > shut down in a semi-orderly way. It can't necesarily tell the difference
    > between faulty and poor power supply.
    >
    > It's also possible it decided it was running on batteries and they were
    > dying.
    >
    > I consider both of these to be pretty unlikly. Usually this behaviour is
    > buggy drivers. If it's faulty hardware, or overheating hardware, you just
    > get a restart - like you flipped the power at the wall.
    >
    > Viruses don't tend to do it - not destructive enough. Unless they are
    > buggy
    > and futsing with drivers.
    >
    > Anyway see how it goes, let us know.
    >
    > --
    >
    > ... Brendan


    What a great comfort you are listing damn near anything - "bugger drivers -
    faulty hardware" - all of which is now working again for the op - which if
    true isn't very probable that these things could've fixed themselves. If
    the power goes off so does the PC straight away. There's nothing to worry
    about if all is well afterwards.
    The fact now is that a power cut could've been involved, the conclusion from
    that is pretty obvious.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jul 2, 2006
    #6
  7. Geopelia

    Enkidu Guest

    Geopelia wrote:
    >
    > So I think something must have been wrong inside the box for a while
    > and caused the mystery shutdown.
    >

    My guess, Geo, is that you were acting on autopilot to some extent and
    did not notice a message or box to tick that said that a shutdown was
    about to happen..... I know I've shut things down by mistake when
    installing stuff and I didn't uncheck the vital box. That said, some
    software DOES force a shutdown. Click the 'Finish' box and down she goes!

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Jul 2, 2006
    #7
  8. Geopelia

    Dave Doe Guest

    In article <1151875373.694345@ftpsrv1>, scrooge@*shot.co.nz says...
    >
    > "Brendan" <> wrote in message
    > news:fppolkg9o8lr$...
    > > On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 00:51:22 +1200, Geopelia wrote:
    > >
    > >> "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz (*sling)> wrote in message
    > >> news:1151843102.664188@ftpsrv1...
    > >>>
    > >>> "Geopelia" <> wrote in message
    > >>> news:e88chg$5ut$...
    > >>>> The mystery shutdown that folks have been helping me with might be
    > >>>> solved.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> This morning there was a loud bang outside, and about half the power
    > >>>> went
    > >>>> off, a few things in the house worked but most just flickered a bit. I
    > >>>> shut everything down and checked all the fuses, then the neighbour came
    > >>>> to say their power was off too. Several houses had lost power.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> The big green box by the power pole had blown something, being Sunday
    > >>>> the
    > >>>> part they needed to repair it had to be sent for, and the power was off
    > >>>> most of the day. The power man was up and down the ladder disconnecting
    > >>>> stuff and cutting cables around the box etc. (No, I didn't see any
    > >>>> rusty
    > >>>> shackles!)
    > >>>>
    > >>>> So I think something must have been wrong inside the box for a while
    > >>>> and
    > >>>> caused the mystery shutdown.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> Your help is much appreciated.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> Geopelia
    > >>>
    > >>> It would've crashed the computer straight away, a power cut wouldn't
    > >>> have
    > >>> shut it down normally with XP unloading first.
    > >>> Hope it keeps going well for you.
    > >>>
    > >>> E. Scrooge
    > >> We might have been getting only threequarter power or something.

    > >
    > > Ignore scrooge.
    > >
    > > What can happen sometimes is when XP detects a 'faulty' component, it will
    > > shut down in a semi-orderly way. It can't necesarily tell the difference
    > > between faulty and poor power supply.
    > >
    > > It's also possible it decided it was running on batteries and they were
    > > dying.
    > >
    > > I consider both of these to be pretty unlikly. Usually this behaviour is
    > > buggy drivers. If it's faulty hardware, or overheating hardware, you just
    > > get a restart - like you flipped the power at the wall.
    > >
    > > Viruses don't tend to do it - not destructive enough. Unless they are
    > > buggy
    > > and futsing with drivers.
    > >
    > > Anyway see how it goes, let us know.
    > >
    > > --
    > >
    > > ... Brendan

    >
    > What a great comfort you are listing damn near anything - "bugger drivers -
    > faulty hardware" - all of which is now working again for the op - which if
    > true isn't very probable that these things could've fixed themselves. If
    > the power goes off so does the PC straight away. There's nothing to worry
    > about if all is well afterwards.
    > The fact now is that a power cut could've been involved, the conclusion from
    > that is pretty obvious.


    Still... the advice:
    "Ignore scrooge."

    Is excellent advice.

    --
    Duncan
     
    Dave Doe, Jul 2, 2006
    #8
  9. Geopelia

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "Dave Doe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <1151875373.694345@ftpsrv1>, scrooge@*shot.co.nz says...
    >>
    >> "Brendan" <> wrote in message
    >> news:fppolkg9o8lr$...
    >> > On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 00:51:22 +1200, Geopelia wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz (*sling)> wrote in message
    >> >> news:1151843102.664188@ftpsrv1...
    >> >>>
    >> >>> "Geopelia" <> wrote in message
    >> >>> news:e88chg$5ut$...
    >> >>>> The mystery shutdown that folks have been helping me with might be
    >> >>>> solved.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> This morning there was a loud bang outside, and about half the power
    >> >>>> went
    >> >>>> off, a few things in the house worked but most just flickered a bit.
    >> >>>> I
    >> >>>> shut everything down and checked all the fuses, then the neighbour
    >> >>>> came
    >> >>>> to say their power was off too. Several houses had lost power.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> The big green box by the power pole had blown something, being
    >> >>>> Sunday
    >> >>>> the
    >> >>>> part they needed to repair it had to be sent for, and the power was
    >> >>>> off
    >> >>>> most of the day. The power man was up and down the ladder
    >> >>>> disconnecting
    >> >>>> stuff and cutting cables around the box etc. (No, I didn't see any
    >> >>>> rusty
    >> >>>> shackles!)
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> So I think something must have been wrong inside the box for a while
    >> >>>> and
    >> >>>> caused the mystery shutdown.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> Your help is much appreciated.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> Geopelia
    >> >>>
    >> >>> It would've crashed the computer straight away, a power cut wouldn't
    >> >>> have
    >> >>> shut it down normally with XP unloading first.
    >> >>> Hope it keeps going well for you.
    >> >>>
    >> >>> E. Scrooge
    >> >> We might have been getting only threequarter power or something.
    >> >
    >> > Ignore scrooge.
    >> >
    >> > What can happen sometimes is when XP detects a 'faulty' component, it
    >> > will
    >> > shut down in a semi-orderly way. It can't necesarily tell the
    >> > difference
    >> > between faulty and poor power supply.
    >> >
    >> > It's also possible it decided it was running on batteries and they were
    >> > dying.
    >> >
    >> > I consider both of these to be pretty unlikly. Usually this behaviour
    >> > is
    >> > buggy drivers. If it's faulty hardware, or overheating hardware, you
    >> > just
    >> > get a restart - like you flipped the power at the wall.
    >> >
    >> > Viruses don't tend to do it - not destructive enough. Unless they are
    >> > buggy
    >> > and futsing with drivers.
    >> >
    >> > Anyway see how it goes, let us know.
    >> >
    >> > --
    >> >
    >> > ... Brendan

    >>
    >> What a great comfort you are listing damn near anything - "bugger
    >> drivers -
    >> faulty hardware" - all of which is now working again for the op - which
    >> if
    >> true isn't very probable that these things could've fixed themselves. If
    >> the power goes off so does the PC straight away. There's nothing to
    >> worry
    >> about if all is well afterwards.
    >> The fact now is that a power cut could've been involved, the conclusion
    >> from
    >> that is pretty obvious.

    >
    > Still... the advice:
    > "Ignore scrooge."
    >
    > Is excellent advice.
    >
    > --
    > Duncan


    "Still" you don't even know the meaning of the word, Dave Doe Duncan.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jul 3, 2006
    #9
  10. Geopelia

    Matty F Guest

    Geopelia wrote:
    > The mystery shutdown that folks have been helping me with might be solved.
    >
    > This morning there was a loud bang outside, and about half the power went
    > off, a few things in the house worked but most just flickered a bit. I shut
    > everything down and checked all the fuses, then the neighbour came to say
    > their power was off too. Several houses had lost power.
    >
    > The big green box by the power pole had blown something, being Sunday the
    > part they needed to repair it had to be sent for, and the power was off most
    > of the day. The power man was up and down the ladder disconnecting stuff and
    > cutting cables around the box etc. (No, I didn't see any rusty shackles!)
    >
    > So I think something must have been wrong inside the box for a while and
    > caused the mystery shutdown.


    It sounds like the 11,000 volt transformer in the green box has
    blown up. It's certainly possible that there has been arcing
    inside for a few days that could mess up your power supply and
    upset your computer.
    Whenever the power goes off for a while I turn off the power or
    unplug all appliances at the wall and leave a light switched on
    so I can see when it's back up. When the power comes back on
    there could be a voltage spike that could do some damage to
    appliances. And there was a case when they connected the
    transformer up wrong and delivered 11,000 volts to a whole street.
     
    Matty F, Jul 3, 2006
    #10
  11. Geopelia

    shannon Guest

    Matty F wrote:
    > Geopelia wrote:
    >> The mystery shutdown that folks have been helping me with might be
    >> solved.
    >>
    >> This morning there was a loud bang outside, and about half the power
    >> went off, a few things in the house worked but most just flickered a
    >> bit. I shut everything down and checked all the fuses, then the
    >> neighbour came to say their power was off too. Several houses had lost
    >> power.
    >>
    >> The big green box by the power pole had blown something, being Sunday
    >> the part they needed to repair it had to be sent for, and the power
    >> was off most of the day. The power man was up and down the ladder
    >> disconnecting stuff and cutting cables around the box etc. (No, I
    >> didn't see any rusty shackles!)
    >>
    >> So I think something must have been wrong inside the box for a while
    >> and caused the mystery shutdown.

    >
    > It sounds like the 11,000 volt transformer in the green box has blown
    > up. It's certainly possible that there has been arcing inside for a few
    > days that could mess up your power supply and upset your computer.
    > Whenever the power goes off for a while I turn off the power or unplug
    > all appliances at the wall and leave a light switched on so I can see
    > when it's back up. When the power comes back on there could be a voltage
    > spike that could do some damage to appliances. And there was a case when
    > they connected the transformer up wrong and delivered 11,000 volts to a
    > whole street.
    >



    Also to be recommended is a plugboard with surge protection, a device
    inside (MOV) shorts overvoltage spikes.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_protection
    They are available at appliance retailers etc.
     
    shannon, Jul 3, 2006
    #11
  12. Geopelia

    Geopelia Guest

    "shannon" <> wrote in message news:44a856ca$...
    > Matty F wrote:
    >> Geopelia wrote:
    >>> The mystery shutdown that folks have been helping me with might be
    >>> solved.
    >>>
    >>> This morning there was a loud bang outside, and about half the power
    >>> went off, a few things in the house worked but most just flickered a
    >>> bit. I shut everything down and checked all the fuses, then the
    >>> neighbour came to say their power was off too. Several houses had lost
    >>> power.
    >>>
    >>> The big green box by the power pole had blown something, being Sunday
    >>> the part they needed to repair it had to be sent for, and the power was
    >>> off most of the day. The power man was up and down the ladder
    >>> disconnecting stuff and cutting cables around the box etc. (No, I didn't
    >>> see any rusty shackles!)
    >>>
    >>> So I think something must have been wrong inside the box for a while and
    >>> caused the mystery shutdown.

    >>
    >> It sounds like the 11,000 volt transformer in the green box has blown up.
    >> It's certainly possible that there has been arcing inside for a few days
    >> that could mess up your power supply and upset your computer.
    >> Whenever the power goes off for a while I turn off the power or unplug
    >> all appliances at the wall and leave a light switched on so I can see
    >> when it's back up. When the power comes back on there could be a voltage
    >> spike that could do some damage to appliances. And there was a case when
    >> they connected the transformer up wrong and delivered 11,000 volts to a
    >> whole street.
    >>

    >
    >
    > Also to be recommended is a plugboard with surge protection, a device
    > inside (MOV) shorts overvoltage spikes.
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_protection
    > They are available at appliance retailers etc.


    Yes, I've got one of those. I shut everything off, as I do when there is
    lightning about, though the Mormon Church has a lightning conductor.

    Is there really 11,000 volts in that box? Just as well the clown who drove
    up the kerb ( on a straight road!) and demolished our Wastecare bin and the
    Council's road sign didn't hit that!

    Geopelia
     
    Geopelia, Jul 3, 2006
    #12
  13. Geopelia

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "Geopelia" <> wrote in message
    news:e8a28s$ia4$...
    >
    > "shannon" <> wrote in message
    > news:44a856ca$...
    >> Matty F wrote:
    >>> Geopelia wrote:
    >>>> The mystery shutdown that folks have been helping me with might be
    >>>> solved.
    >>>>
    >>>> This morning there was a loud bang outside, and about half the power
    >>>> went off, a few things in the house worked but most just flickered a
    >>>> bit. I shut everything down and checked all the fuses, then the
    >>>> neighbour came to say their power was off too. Several houses had lost
    >>>> power.
    >>>>
    >>>> The big green box by the power pole had blown something, being Sunday
    >>>> the part they needed to repair it had to be sent for, and the power was
    >>>> off most of the day. The power man was up and down the ladder
    >>>> disconnecting stuff and cutting cables around the box etc. (No, I
    >>>> didn't see any rusty shackles!)
    >>>>
    >>>> So I think something must have been wrong inside the box for a while
    >>>> and caused the mystery shutdown.
    >>>
    >>> It sounds like the 11,000 volt transformer in the green box has blown
    >>> up. It's certainly possible that there has been arcing inside for a few
    >>> days that could mess up your power supply and upset your computer.
    >>> Whenever the power goes off for a while I turn off the power or unplug
    >>> all appliances at the wall and leave a light switched on so I can see
    >>> when it's back up. When the power comes back on there could be a voltage
    >>> spike that could do some damage to appliances. And there was a case when
    >>> they connected the transformer up wrong and delivered 11,000 volts to a
    >>> whole street.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> Also to be recommended is a plugboard with surge protection, a device
    >> inside (MOV) shorts overvoltage spikes.
    >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_protection
    >> They are available at appliance retailers etc.

    >
    > Yes, I've got one of those. I shut everything off, as I do when there is
    > lightning about, though the Mormon Church has a lightning conductor.
    >
    > Is there really 11,000 volts in that box? Just as well the clown who drove
    > up the kerb ( on a straight road!) and demolished our Wastecare bin and
    > the Council's road sign didn't hit that!
    >
    > Geopelia


    I'm pretty sure that if the surge guard has taken a big load it will only do
    it the once. The light either doesn't come on or stays on to show that the
    surge protection is no longer working.
    On the real surge boxes.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jul 3, 2006
    #13
  14. Geopelia

    Matty F Guest

    E. Scrooge wrote:
    > "Geopelia" <> wrote in message
    > news:e8a28s$ia4$...


    >>Is there really 11,000 volts in that box? Just as well the clown who drove
    >>up the kerb ( on a straight road!) and demolished our Wastecare bin and
    >>the Council's road sign didn't hit that!


    The power poles on most suburban streets have three 11,000 volt
    wires on top that supply a number of streets, and under that are
    230/440 volt wires that connect direct to houses. Every so often
    there is a transformer to convert the 11,000 volts to the lower
    voltage.

    > I'm pretty sure that if the surge guard has taken a big load it will only do
    > it the once. The light either doesn't come on or stays on to show that the
    > surge protection is no longer working.
    > On the real surge boxes.


    It can't do any harm to use a surge box all the time. But when
    the power is switched on after a power cut, the voltage may vary
    for a bit, or even go off again. So I like to isolate all
    appliances, computer etc from that.
     
    Matty F, Jul 3, 2006
    #14
  15. Geopelia

    Geopelia Guest

    "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz (*sling)> wrote in message
    news:1151902654.858554@ftpsrv1...
    >
    > "Geopelia" <> wrote in message
    > news:e8a28s$ia4$...
    >>
    >> "shannon" <> wrote in message
    >> news:44a856ca$...
    >>> Matty F wrote:
    >>>> Geopelia wrote:
    >>>>> The mystery shutdown that folks have been helping me with might be
    >>>>> solved.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> This morning there was a loud bang outside, and about half the power
    >>>>> went off, a few things in the house worked but most just flickered a
    >>>>> bit. I shut everything down and checked all the fuses, then the
    >>>>> neighbour came to say their power was off too. Several houses had lost
    >>>>> power.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The big green box by the power pole had blown something, being Sunday
    >>>>> the part they needed to repair it had to be sent for, and the power
    >>>>> was off most of the day. The power man was up and down the ladder
    >>>>> disconnecting stuff and cutting cables around the box etc. (No, I
    >>>>> didn't see any rusty shackles!)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> So I think something must have been wrong inside the box for a while
    >>>>> and caused the mystery shutdown.
    >>>>
    >>>> It sounds like the 11,000 volt transformer in the green box has blown
    >>>> up. It's certainly possible that there has been arcing inside for a few
    >>>> days that could mess up your power supply and upset your computer.
    >>>> Whenever the power goes off for a while I turn off the power or unplug
    >>>> all appliances at the wall and leave a light switched on so I can see
    >>>> when it's back up. When the power comes back on there could be a
    >>>> voltage spike that could do some damage to appliances. And there was a
    >>>> case when they connected the transformer up wrong and delivered 11,000
    >>>> volts to a whole street.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Also to be recommended is a plugboard with surge protection, a device
    >>> inside (MOV) shorts overvoltage spikes.
    >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_protection
    >>> They are available at appliance retailers etc.

    >>
    >> Yes, I've got one of those. I shut everything off, as I do when there is
    >> lightning about, though the Mormon Church has a lightning conductor.
    >>
    >> Is there really 11,000 volts in that box? Just as well the clown who
    >> drove up the kerb ( on a straight road!) and demolished our Wastecare bin
    >> and the Council's road sign didn't hit that!
    >>
    >> Geopelia

    >
    > I'm pretty sure that if the surge guard has taken a big load it will only
    > do it the once. The light either doesn't come on or stays on to show that
    > the surge protection is no longer working.
    > On the real surge boxes.
    >
    > E. Scrooge

    The two lights that are always on are still there. (A yellow and an orange).
    It was a very expensive surge box, as recommended by the computer shop.
    Hubby says he could have got one a lot cheaper from Bunnings, but I don't
    think that is the same kind.

    Geopelia
     
    Geopelia, Jul 3, 2006
    #15
  16. Geopelia

    Geopelia Guest

    "Matty F" <> wrote in message
    news:e8ag5a$j54$...
    > E. Scrooge wrote:
    >> "Geopelia" <> wrote in message
    >> news:e8a28s$ia4$...

    >
    >>>Is there really 11,000 volts in that box? Just as well the clown who
    >>>drove up the kerb ( on a straight road!) and demolished our Wastecare bin
    >>>and the Council's road sign didn't hit that!

    >
    > The power poles on most suburban streets have three 11,000 volt wires on
    > top that supply a number of streets, and under that are 230/440 volt wires
    > that connect direct to houses. Every so often there is a transformer to
    > convert the 11,000 volts to the lower voltage.
    >
    >> I'm pretty sure that if the surge guard has taken a big load it will only
    >> do it the once. The light either doesn't come on or stays on to show
    >> that the surge protection is no longer working.
    >> On the real surge boxes.

    >
    > It can't do any harm to use a surge box all the time. But when the power
    > is switched on after a power cut, the voltage may vary for a bit, or even
    > go off again. So I like to isolate all appliances, computer etc from that.
    >


    I allow quite a while before switching anything on after a power cut.
     
    Geopelia, Jul 3, 2006
    #16
  17. Geopelia

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "Geopelia" <> wrote in message
    news:e8aveb$8i1$...
    >
    > "E. Scrooge" <scrooge@*shot.co.nz (*sling)> wrote in message
    > news:1151902654.858554@ftpsrv1...
    >>
    >> "Geopelia" <> wrote in message
    >> news:e8a28s$ia4$...
    >>>
    >>> "shannon" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:44a856ca$...
    >>>> Matty F wrote:
    >>>>> Geopelia wrote:
    >>>>>> The mystery shutdown that folks have been helping me with might be
    >>>>>> solved.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> This morning there was a loud bang outside, and about half the power
    >>>>>> went off, a few things in the house worked but most just flickered a
    >>>>>> bit. I shut everything down and checked all the fuses, then the
    >>>>>> neighbour came to say their power was off too. Several houses had
    >>>>>> lost power.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The big green box by the power pole had blown something, being Sunday
    >>>>>> the part they needed to repair it had to be sent for, and the power
    >>>>>> was off most of the day. The power man was up and down the ladder
    >>>>>> disconnecting stuff and cutting cables around the box etc. (No, I
    >>>>>> didn't see any rusty shackles!)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> So I think something must have been wrong inside the box for a while
    >>>>>> and caused the mystery shutdown.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It sounds like the 11,000 volt transformer in the green box has blown
    >>>>> up. It's certainly possible that there has been arcing inside for a
    >>>>> few days that could mess up your power supply and upset your computer.
    >>>>> Whenever the power goes off for a while I turn off the power or unplug
    >>>>> all appliances at the wall and leave a light switched on so I can see
    >>>>> when it's back up. When the power comes back on there could be a
    >>>>> voltage spike that could do some damage to appliances. And there was a
    >>>>> case when they connected the transformer up wrong and delivered 11,000
    >>>>> volts to a whole street.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Also to be recommended is a plugboard with surge protection, a device
    >>>> inside (MOV) shorts overvoltage spikes.
    >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_protection
    >>>> They are available at appliance retailers etc.
    >>>
    >>> Yes, I've got one of those. I shut everything off, as I do when there is
    >>> lightning about, though the Mormon Church has a lightning conductor.
    >>>
    >>> Is there really 11,000 volts in that box? Just as well the clown who
    >>> drove up the kerb ( on a straight road!) and demolished our Wastecare
    >>> bin and the Council's road sign didn't hit that!
    >>>
    >>> Geopelia

    >>
    >> I'm pretty sure that if the surge guard has taken a big load it will only
    >> do it the once. The light either doesn't come on or stays on to show
    >> that the surge protection is no longer working.
    >> On the real surge boxes.
    >>
    >> E. Scrooge

    > The two lights that are always on are still there. (A yellow and an
    > orange).
    > It was a very expensive surge box, as recommended by the computer shop.
    > Hubby says he could have got one a lot cheaper from Bunnings, but I don't
    > think that is the same kind.
    >
    > Geopelia


    That's good, sounds like it's still in good condition then.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jul 3, 2006
    #17
  18. Geopelia

    w_tom Guest

    Geopelia wrote:
    > The two lights that are always on are still there. (A yellow and an orange).
    > It was a very expensive surge box, as recommended by the computer shop.
    > Hubby says he could have got one a lot cheaper from Bunnings, but I don't
    > think that is the same kind.


    Those lights only indicate failure when the failure is a type that
    must never happen. Meanwhile, other failure modes remain unreported.

    A protector must earth direct transients and remain effective.
    However, to sell protectors on myths, then many are intentionally
    undersized so that a homeowner will assume, "The protector sacrificed
    itself to save my computer". Such protectors failed prematurely AND
    left protection inside the appliance to protect electronics. Some
    surges too small to harm a computer will still destroy an undersized
    plug-in protector. It promotes more sales.

    Protectors are essentially a maybe $3 power strip with some $0.10
    parts inside. Active component is called an MOV. MOVs must never fail
    by vaporizing or shorting. An MOV manufacturer demonstrates how MOVs
    work:
    > The change of Vb shall be measured after the impulse ...
    > is applies 10,000 times continuously with the interval of
    > tens seconds at room temperature.


    Does this sound like a device intended to fail on the first surge?
    Does this sound like a device intended to absorb the entire energy of a
    surge? Of course not. That is not what shunt mode protectors do. As
    Vb changes, then the MOV degrades. It must not vaporize as so often
    happens to promote grossly undersized plug-in protectors. It must
    degrade.

    Effective shunt mode protectors do same a Ben Franklin demonstrated
    in 1752. Lightning will seek earth ground destructively via a church
    steeple. Franklin simply gave lightning a non-destructive path to
    earth. We don't stop or absorb surges. We shunt them to earth on
    paths that are not destrutive. No shunt to earth and typically
    destructive surges will find earth ground via household appliances.
    Shunt mode protectors are effective with a less than 3 meter connection
    to earth.

    Down at the telephone Central Office is how effective protection
    works - as was standard even long before WWII. Every incoming wire on
    every cable connects to earth ground. A connection made by hard wire
    or made via a 'whole house' type protector. Shunt mode protectors
    earth. A shunt mode protector without earthing is not effective.

    So instead we take that $3 power strip, add some $0.10 components,
    and hype it as a miracle solution to the naive. Review for yourself.
    Where in its numerical specs does that plug-in protector even claim
    protection from each type of transient? It does not. Why do its own
    specs forget to claim protection from the typically destructive
    transient?

    Two important numbers are joules and let-through voltage. Joules
    defines a protector's life expectancy. A number used in charts to
    determine number of transients and size of those transients before a
    protector degrades. Not fail. Properly sized protectors always remain
    functional and only degrade. A grossly undersized protector (too few
    joules) is destroyed by only one surge - ineffective.

    Look for the let-through or threshold voltage on that protector. For
    240 VAC, thern may be maybe 500+ volts. Any 'noise' created by
    household appliances (refrigerator, vacumm cleaner, etc) is completely
    ignored by a protector. Protection inside all appliances makes that
    'noise' irrelevant. The protector is for a transient that might
    otherwise overwhelm internal appliance protection. Therefore every
    incoming utility wire (cable TV, telephone, AC electric) must be
    earthed, less than 3 meters, to a common earth ground. Telephone and
    AC electric require protectors to make that earthing connection. Cable
    TV makes that earthing connection using ground block and hardwire. If
    all incoming utilities are properly earthed, then a transient that may
    overwhelm internal appliance protection is made irrelevant.

    This applies to all incoming utilities - overhead or underground.
    What makes a shunt mode protector effective is earthing. No earth
    ground means no effective protection. So plug-in protector don't even
    discuss earthing - a hope you don't learn about the most critical
    component in a protection system: single point earth ground.

    Meanwhile look what happens to those lights on a protector where all
    MOVs are removed. The lights remain on because those lights actually
    do not report a protector as effective. Those lights will only report
    one type of failure. If that one type failure occurs, then the
    protector was grossly undersized - just another reason why the plug-in
    protector was ineffective:
    http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html

    Protector was completely destroyed - "All 6 MOVs removed" - and still
    those lights say protector is OK. Effective protectors, instead, earth
    transients so that protection inside an appliance is not overwhelmed.
     
    w_tom, Jul 3, 2006
    #18
  19. Geopelia

    Brendan Guest

    On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 23:33:09 +1200, Geopelia wrote:

    > The two lights that are always on are still there. (A yellow and an orange).
    > It was a very expensive surge box, as recommended by the computer shop.
    > Hubby says he could have got one a lot cheaper from Bunnings, but I don't
    > think that is the same kind.


    Those surge protectors are of limited use. Some people even call them
    scams.

    If they take a big enough hit, or enough smaller hits, they will stop
    working and you will not know it. You'll be unprotected.

    They also do nothing for brown-outs.

    --

    .... Brendan

    So I was getting into my car, and this bloke says to me "Can you
    give me a lift?" I said "Sure, you look great, the world's your
    oyster, go for it.'


    Note: All my comments are copyright 4/07/2006 1:33:47 a.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.
     
    Brendan, Jul 4, 2006
    #19
  20. Geopelia

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "Brendan" <> wrote in message
    news:bj8dsvm8cn95$...
    > On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 23:33:09 +1200, Geopelia wrote:
    >
    >> The two lights that are always on are still there. (A yellow and an
    >> orange).
    >> It was a very expensive surge box, as recommended by the computer shop.
    >> Hubby says he could have got one a lot cheaper from Bunnings, but I don't
    >> think that is the same kind.

    >
    > Those surge protectors are of limited use. Some people even call them
    > scams.
    >
    > If they take a big enough hit, or enough smaller hits, they will stop
    > working and you will not know it. You'll be unprotected.
    >
    > They also do nothing for brown-outs.
    >
    > --
    >
    > ... Brendan


    If they stop working then that means they were working in the place.

    The indicator lights are meant to tell if they still work as surge
    protectors after taking a hit. If the light is no longer on then you know
    it's not working as before and you will know it.

    Cost of surge protector against cost of thousands of dollars of electronics.
    If they didn't do something to help they wouldn't be on the market, they
    have to do what they advertise. They even advertise on them that they no
    longer work after taking a good hit.
    The only scam round here is you.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jul 4, 2006
    #20
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