The plunge

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Joy, Feb 27, 2005.

  1. Joy

    Joy Guest

    Yep, it's taken, we're now on med high speed internet. We were advised to
    forgo 'zone alarm' by ihug help desk, which leaves me with some questions.

    Soon, this house will have four pcs networked, they are just waiting for
    someone who knows how, they are already connected by the dynalink rta770
    adsl router.

    The four pc owners have a varied knowledge of security and of course one of
    them refuses to update their copy of XP, so how, as the main fixit pc
    person, can I maintain good security for my own pc mainly but also the
    network?
    We all run antivirus and have adaware and spybot. One pc has a known trojan
    infection which the owner says is needed for something and isin't really a
    trojan. Should I believe this?
    Joy
     
    Joy, Feb 27, 2005
    #1
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  2. Joy

    GraB Guest

    On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:00:15 +1300, "Joy" <> wrote:

    >Yep, it's taken, we're now on med high speed internet. We were advised to
    >forgo 'zone alarm' by ihug help desk, which leaves me with some questions.


    I would be interested in hearing their reasons for that.
    >
    >Soon, this house will have four pcs networked, they are just waiting for
    >someone who knows how, they are already connected by the dynalink rta770
    >adsl router.
    >
    >The four pc owners have a varied knowledge of security and of course one of
    >them refuses to update their copy of XP, so how, as the main fixit pc
    >person, can I maintain good security for my own pc mainly but also the
    >network?
    >We all run antivirus and have adaware and spybot. One pc has a known trojan
    >infection which the owner says is needed for something and isin't really a
    >trojan. Should I believe this?
    >Joy
    >

    Can you identify this trojan?
     
    GraB, Feb 27, 2005
    #2
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  3. Joy

    Peter Guest

    Joy wrote:
    > Yep, it's taken, we're now on med high speed internet. We were advised to
    > forgo 'zone alarm' by ihug help desk, which leaves me with some questions.

    <snip>
    > The four pc owners have a varied knowledge of security and of course one
    > of them refuses to update their copy of XP, so how, as the main fixit pc
    > person, can I maintain good security for my own pc mainly but also the
    > network?


    By doing NAT, the router acts as a type of firewall, making attacks from
    outside just that bit more difficult.
    We run a home LAN here with 3 or 4 PCs. Each PC has its own firewall and
    the Win box has virus protection. A safe approach would be for each PC to
    protect itself, especially if you can't be assured of the health of the
    other PCs on your LAN.

    > We all run antivirus and have adaware and spybot. One pc has a known
    > trojan infection which the owner says is needed for something and isin't
    > really a trojan. Should I believe this?


    That sounds unlikely, but a google search would probably settle the issue.
    What is the app, what is the trojan it needs, and why do you think it is a
    trojan?

    HTH

    Peter
     
    Peter, Feb 27, 2005
    #3
  4. Joy

    steven Guest

    On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:00:15 +1300, Joy wrote:

    > Yep, it's taken, we're now on med high speed internet. We were advised to
    > forgo 'zone alarm' by ihug help desk, which leaves me with some questions.


    use 'real' firewall / ics software

    personally i use Kerio, iam not sure of the limitations of their personal
    version but it could do the trick in your situation.

    either that or get yourself a low spec pc and stick some dedicated linux
    firewall distro on it.

    > Soon, this house will have four pcs networked, they are just waiting for
    > someone who knows how, they are already connected by the dynalink rta770
    > adsl router.
    >
    > The four pc owners have a varied knowledge of security and of course one of
    > them refuses to update their copy of XP, so how, as the main fixit pc
    > person, can I maintain good security for my own pc mainly but also the
    > network?


    firstly, as soon as you have the network running obtain a cd with xpsp2 &
    block the person who refuses to update their copy of xp - when they
    complain hand them the cd.

    > We all run antivirus and have adaware and spybot. One pc has a known trojan
    > infection which the owner says is needed for something and isin't really a
    > trojan. Should I believe this?


    flat out - no

    in all likelyhood its some shit the user installed that also installed some
    other shit along with it (bonzo buddy anybody!)

    i take the (hard) approach that if a pc is on *my* network it gets all
    network access blocked untill the owner fixes whats broke.

    --
    -------------------------------------
    Steven H (.net geek)
    Third Year, B.I.T. Otago Polytechnic
     
    steven, Feb 27, 2005
    #4
  5. Joy

    JJD Guest

    On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:29:43 +1300, GraB <> wrote:

    >On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:00:15 +1300, "Joy" <> wrote:
    >
    >>Yep, it's taken, we're now on med high speed internet. We were advised to
    >>forgo 'zone alarm' by ihug help desk, which leaves me with some questions.

    >
    >I would be interested in hearing their reasons for that.
    >>

    So would I. Sounds perilous, to say the least. It's free - why would
    you not use it?

    JJD
     
    JJD, Feb 27, 2005
    #5
  6. Joy

    Mackin Guest

    steven wrote:

    <snip>
    >
    > either that or get yourself a low spec pc and stick some dedicated linux
    > firewall distro on it.
    >

    I couldn't agree more. An old pentium box with Smoothwall Express 2.0 is
    what I use. Works brilliantly.
    See http://www.smoothwall.org/ for more info and to download.

    Mackin.
     
    Mackin, Feb 27, 2005
    #6
  7. Joy

    Joy Guest

    "steven" <> wrote in message
    news:19rzd11k4ilbz$...
    > On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:00:15 +1300, Joy wrote:
    >
    >> Yep, it's taken, we're now on med high speed internet. We were advised
    >> to
    >> forgo 'zone alarm' by ihug help desk, which leaves me with some
    >> questions.

    >
    > use 'real' firewall / ics software
    >
    > personally i use Kerio, iam not sure of the limitations of their personal
    > version but it could do the trick in your situation.
    >
    > either that or get yourself a low spec pc and stick some dedicated linux
    > firewall distro on it.


    What a shame, I just gave away the ideal machine to someone who was still
    using win95, 16ram 2g hard drive, they think they're now in heaven and I
    think they donated theirs to the dump.
    I have another oldie though which is running win 98se which will be replaced
    soon, I can use that I guess. I like the idea of it but I've not had a good
    experience of linux since I once tried to install it on a very old machine
    and it didn't work, that machine is still here but inoperable for some
    reason, a good anchor for a wee boat and is only waiting for an inorganic
    collection.

    Please tell me, would the only hardware change be a network card to an older
    machine? Then I take it, all it requires is the courage to install the
    software, which hopefully would do all it's supposed to do without it's
    owner being a pc geek?

    >> Soon, this house will have four pcs networked, they are just waiting for
    >> someone who knows how, they are already connected by the dynalink
    >> rta770
    >> adsl router.
    >>
    >> The four pc owners have a varied knowledge of security and of course one
    >> of
    >> them refuses to update their copy of XP, so how, as the main fixit pc
    >> person, can I maintain good security for my own pc mainly but also the
    >> network?

    >
    > firstly, as soon as you have the network running obtain a cd with xpsp2 &
    > block the person who refuses to update their copy of xp - when they
    > complain hand them the cd.


    Oh, tough love!

    >> We all run antivirus and have adaware and spybot. One pc has a known
    >> trojan
    >> infection which the owner says is needed for something and isin't really
    >> a
    >> trojan. Should I believe this?

    >
    > flat out - no
    >
    > in all likelyhood its some shit the user installed that also installed
    > some
    > other shit along with it (bonzo buddy anybody!)
    >
    > i take the (hard) approach that if a pc is on *my* network it gets all
    > network access blocked untill the owner fixes whats broke.


    the name of the problem is 'artmoney'.
    Joy
     
    Joy, Feb 27, 2005
    #7
  8. Joy

    Joy Guest

    "GraB" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:00:15 +1300, "Joy" <> wrote:
    >
    >>Yep, it's taken, we're now on med high speed internet. We were advised to
    >>forgo 'zone alarm' by ihug help desk, which leaves me with some questions.

    >
    > I would be interested in hearing their reasons for that.
    >>
    >>Soon, this house will have four pcs networked, they are just waiting for
    >>someone who knows how, they are already connected by the dynalink rta770
    >>adsl router.
    >>
    >>The four pc owners have a varied knowledge of security and of course one
    >>of
    >>them refuses to update their copy of XP, so how, as the main fixit pc
    >>person, can I maintain good security for my own pc mainly but also the
    >>network?
    >>We all run antivirus and have adaware and spybot. One pc has a known
    >>trojan
    >>infection which the owner says is needed for something and isin't really a
    >>trojan. Should I believe this?
    >>Joy
    >>

    > Can you identify this trojan?

    Artmoney
    Joy
     
    Joy, Feb 27, 2005
    #8
  9. Joy

    Joy Guest

    "JJD" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:29:43 +1300, GraB <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:00:15 +1300, "Joy" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Yep, it's taken, we're now on med high speed internet. We were advised
    >>>to
    >>>forgo 'zone alarm' by ihug help desk, which leaves me with some
    >>>questions.

    >>
    >>I would be interested in hearing their reasons for that.
    >>>

    > So would I. Sounds perilous, to say the least. It's free - why would
    > you not use it?


    It was emotionally difficult to delete zone alarm, like saying goodbye to a
    dear friend but we were getting intermittant use of the always on connection
    and they recommended it saying that the modem does a better job of defending
    us. After we deleted, there were no more problems so were they right?
    Before taking the plunge, I thought that zone alarm might give us a few
    headaches but nothing that could not be overcome.
    Joy
     
    Joy, Feb 27, 2005
    #9
  10. Joy

    Gordon Guest

    On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:00:15 +1300, Joy wrote:

    > Yep, it's taken, we're now on med high speed internet.


    Love that term people. Very much to the point though eh?

    > We were advised to
    > forgo 'zone alarm' by ihug help desk, which leaves me with some questions.


    Well, take the question and shove it up where the sun does not shine in
    your ISP.

    med High speed Internet is just like slow Internet, only the nasty people
    have longer to rape and pillage ones machine.

    Keep Zone Alarm on.

    Did the helpful Ihug person offer any reason why Zone Alarm should be
    disabled?

    >
    > Soon, this house will have four pcs networked, they are just waiting for
    > someone who knows how, they are already connected by the dynalink rta770
    > adsl router.


    Then they are networked ;-)
    >
    > The four pc owners have a varied knowledge of security and of course one of
    > them refuses to update their copy of XP, so how, as the main fixit pc
    > person, can I maintain good security for my own pc mainly but also the
    > network?


    Pull a few plugs, or rank.

    > We all run antivirus and have adaware and spybot. One pc has a known
    > trojan infection which the owner says is needed for something and isin't
    > really a trojan. Should I believe this?


    Maybe, AV programmes do give false +ves (positives), To think that +ve
    and -ve have been around when text was only in books, and yet is so modern ;-)

    In short, if your LAN is not a trusted zone, then defend your PC as if the
    LAN was very nasty.
     
    Gordon, Feb 27, 2005
    #10
  11. Joy

    Gordon Guest

    On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:56:01 +1300, Joy wrote:

    > I like the idea of it but I've not had a good
    > experience of linux since I once tried to install it on a very old machine
    > and it didn't work,


    Ms Penguin here Joy. My great great Mother told me that we only talked to
    people who were geeks. Today things are different, we talk to anyone who
    wants to listen and then we go fishing together. We often see phisher
    people but they are so yank yank, that we just say bit bucket and carry
    one.

    http://www.smoothwall.org is one of several cousins of mine who have taken
    up guard. IPCop is another.

    They are very good at controlling what is allowed to go where.

    Read, Linux is evolving so darn fast that if you have not tried it for
    some time then it is your loss.
     
    Gordon, Feb 27, 2005
    #11
  12. Joy

    Gordon Guest

    On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 17:00:44 +1300, Joy wrote:

    > It was emotionally difficult to delete zone alarm, like saying goodbye to a
    > dear friend but we were getting intermittant use of the always on connection
    > and they recommended it saying that the modem does a better job of defending
    > us.


    So why woory if one is wearing belts and braces? You trusted Zone Alarm.
    It had served you well. Trust is *very* *important* on the Internet and in
    the real world.

    >After we deleted, there were no more problems so were they right?


    Could you explain the problems.

    > Before taking the plunge, I thought that zone alarm might give us a few
    > headaches but nothing that could not be overcome.


    No doubt.

    When it comes to justice, innocent until proven guilty; when dealing with
    businesses etc guilty until proven otherwise.

    Cynical maybe, but it helps to get thru life eh?
     
    Gordon, Feb 27, 2005
    #12
  13. On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:56:01 +1300, "Joy" <> wrote:

    >
    >"steven" <> wrote in message


    snip

    >> either that or get yourself a low spec pc and stick some dedicated linux
    >> firewall distro on it.

    >
    >What a shame, I just gave away the ideal machine to someone who was still
    >using win95, 16ram 2g hard drive, they think they're now in heaven and I
    >think they donated theirs to the dump.
    >I have another oldie though which is running win 98se which will be replaced
    >soon, I can use that I guess. I like the idea of it but I've not had a good
    >experience of linux since I once tried to install it on a very old machine
    >and it didn't work, that machine is still here but inoperable for some
    >reason, a good anchor for a wee boat and is only waiting for an inorganic
    >collection.
    >
    >Please tell me, would the only hardware change be a network card to an older
    >machine? Then I take it, all it requires is the courage to install the
    >software, which hopefully would do all it's supposed to do without it's
    >owner being a pc geek?
    >

    Someone else mentioned Smoothwall, I use Ipcop www.ipcop.org

    The initial install looks like an older linux but you're generally
    only filling in the boxes or selecting devices from a list. Because it
    is a stripped down version this is easy. Once it is installed you do
    any administration from one of your machines on the local network
    using a browser, which is very easy. Forget any previous unpleasant
    experiences. I'm on cable so there is one nic for the local (green)
    network and one for the external (red). It can also do other services
    for your local machines like DHCP, proxy and as a time server etc but
    they are easily set going once you have it up and have got familiar
    with it.
    Check out the documentation on the sites.
    --
    Regards
    Malcolm
    Remove sharp objects to get a valid e-mail address
     
    Malcolm Moore, Feb 27, 2005
    #13
  14. Joy

    Mackin Guest

    Joy wrote:

    <snip>

    > I have another oldie though which is running win 98se which will be
    > replaced soon, I can use that I guess. I like the idea of it but
    > I've not had a good experience of linux since I once tried to install
    > it on a very old machine and it didn't work, that machine is still
    > here but inoperable for some reason, a good anchor for a wee boat
    > and is only waiting for an inorganic collection.
    >
    > Please tell me, would the only hardware change be a network card to
    > an older machine? Then I take it, all it requires is the courage to
    > install the software, which hopefully would do all it's supposed to
    > do without it's owner being a pc geek?
    >


    All you need to do is install 2 network cards in the old machine, download
    the Smoothwall .iso from www.smoothwall.org and burn it to a CD, boot the
    old machie off the Smoothwall CD to install.

    Configuration is simple and is can be administered from a web browser on any
    PC on the network. The Smoothwall box does not need a monitor, keyboard or
    mouse.

    Download the documentation from www.smoothwall.org (.PDF format) and read
    thru it carefully, everything you need to know is in there.

    Don't let your past experineces put you off. Like Gordon said, Mrs Penguin
    has come a long way in recent times.

    Mackin.
     
    Mackin, Feb 27, 2005
    #14
  15. Joy

    cowboyz Guest

    Joy wrote:
    >
    >>> We all run antivirus and have adaware and spybot. One pc has a known
    >>> trojan
    >>> infection which the owner says is needed for something and isin't
    >>> really a trojan. Should I believe this?
    >>> Joy
    >>>

    >> Can you identify this trojan?

    > Artmoney
    > Joy


    Artmoney is not a trojan. Well at least not the one I know of. It is a
    cheat too that is like the ACtion replay carts that you used to have on the
    C64 and psx
     
    cowboyz, Feb 27, 2005
    #15
  16. Joy

    Joy Guest

    "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    news:cvro87$mdi$...
    >
    >
    > Joy wrote:
    >>
    >>>> We all run antivirus and have adaware and spybot. One pc has a known
    >>>> trojan
    >>>> infection which the owner says is needed for something and isin't
    >>>> really a trojan. Should I believe this?
    >>>> Joy
    >>>>
    >>> Can you identify this trojan?

    >> Artmoney
    >> Joy

    >
    > Artmoney is not a trojan. Well at least not the one I know of. It is a
    > cheat too that is like the ACtion replay carts that you used to have on
    > the C64 and psx


    thanks for that, I've got a bit of trust restored for that person.
    Joy
     
    Joy, Feb 27, 2005
    #16
  17. Joy

    Kiwi Guest

    On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:00:15 +1300, "Joy" <> wrote:

    >Yep, it's taken, we're now on med high speed internet. We were advised to
    >forgo 'zone alarm' by ihug help desk, which leaves me with some questions.
    >

    Hi Joy,

    This seems a strange statement for them to make. I amrunning Bliink
    adsl here with a network consisting of a mixture of Win 98SE, 2KPro
    and XP. Each machine has the latest version of Zone Alarm and has no
    problems accessing the Net.

    >Soon, this house will have four pcs networked, they are just waiting for
    >someone who knows how, they are already connected by the dynalink rta770
    >adsl router.
    >
    >The four pc owners have a varied knowledge of security and of course one of
    >them refuses to update their copy of XP, so how, as the main fixit pc
    >person, can I maintain good security for my own pc mainly but also the
    >network?
    >We all run antivirus and have adaware and spybot. One pc has a known trojan
    >infection which the owner says is needed for something and isin't really a
    >trojan. Should I believe this?
    >Joy
    >

    I would definetely run a firwall on each machine.

    Cheers, Kiwi
     
    Kiwi, Feb 27, 2005
    #17
  18. Joy

    GraB Guest

    On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:56:22 +1300, "Joy" <> wrote:

    >
    >"GraB" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:00:15 +1300, "Joy" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Yep, it's taken, we're now on med high speed internet. We were advised to
    >>>forgo 'zone alarm' by ihug help desk, which leaves me with some questions.

    >>
    >> I would be interested in hearing their reasons for that.
    >>>
    >>>Soon, this house will have four pcs networked, they are just waiting for
    >>>someone who knows how, they are already connected by the dynalink rta770
    >>>adsl router.
    >>>
    >>>The four pc owners have a varied knowledge of security and of course one
    >>>of
    >>>them refuses to update their copy of XP, so how, as the main fixit pc
    >>>person, can I maintain good security for my own pc mainly but also the
    >>>network?
    >>>We all run antivirus and have adaware and spybot. One pc has a known
    >>>trojan
    >>>infection which the owner says is needed for something and isin't really a
    >>>trojan. Should I believe this?
    >>>Joy
    >>>

    >> Can you identify this trojan?

    >Artmoney
    >Joy
    >

    http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/trojan.redfall.html

    Trojan.Redfall installs and runs two Trojan Horse programs. It may
    arrive as the "Artmoney" computer game cheat program.

    Also Known As: TrojanDropper.Win32.Small.bi

    Type: Trojan Horse
    Infection Length: 1,961,885 bytes

    Systems Affected: Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows
    Me, Windows NT, Windows Server 2003, Windows XP
     
    GraB, Feb 27, 2005
    #18
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