The myth of "weather sealing" and the 5D.

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by John A. Stovall, Oct 1, 2005.

  1. I suggest some of those who whine about the lack of "weather sealing"
    on the 5D read what a pro who makes his living shooting in all kinds
    of conditions has to say about the subject.

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/5d-field.shtml

    I suspect those who are doing the whining don't even go out when
    there's a heavy dew.


    **********************************************************

    "A combat photographer should be able to make you see the
    color of blood in black and white"


    David Douglas Duncan
    Speaking on why in Vietnam
    he worked only in black and white
    http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/online/ddd/
     
    John A. Stovall, Oct 1, 2005
    #1
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  2. "John A. Stovall" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I suggest some of those who whine about the lack of "weather sealing"
    > on the 5D read what a pro who makes his living shooting in all kinds
    > of conditions has to say about the subject.
    >
    > http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/5d-field.shtml
    >
    > I suspect those who are doing the whining don't even go out when
    > there's a heavy dew.


    Yep. That's my take, too. None of my other cameras have "weather sealing",
    and I certainly wouldn't submit any camera to the kind of abuse the 'weather
    sealing wimperers' seem to think is a daily occurrance.

    Now a real complaint with the 5D is the insanely short eye relief and dim
    info readout (with tiny characters and symbols to add insult to injury) in
    the viewfinder. Sheesh. The pre-set an EV offset and do AE with the
    spotmeter trick is going to work fine, but without the grid focusing screen,
    using the spot meter as a generic spotmeter is going to be hard (because the
    center point is not clearly marked on the screen). Sheesh.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Oct 1, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. John A. Stovall

    Chris Brown Guest

    In article <>,
    John A. Stovall <> wrote:
    >I suggest some of those who whine about the lack of "weather sealing"
    >on the 5D read what a pro who makes his living shooting in all kinds
    >of conditions has to say about the subject.
    >
    >http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/5d-field.shtml
    >
    >I suspect those who are doing the whining don't even go out when
    >there's a heavy dew.


    Quite so. Indeed, I once took my very non-weather sealed EOS D30 into a
    tropical rainforest, and it proceeded to give a very graphic demonstration
    of why it's called a rainforest. Seldom have I been so wet in my life. The
    camera was fine.
     
    Chris Brown, Oct 1, 2005
    #3
  4. John A. Stovall

    Lourens Smak Guest

    In article <>,
    John A. Stovall <> wrote:

    > I suggest some of those who whine about the lack of "weather sealing"
    > on the 5D read what a pro who makes his living shooting in all kinds
    > of conditions has to say about the subject.
    >
    > http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/5d-field.shtml


    Are you talking about this quote?
    "For some reason though, the 5D that I was testing seemed to attract
    more dust than usual."
    ;-)
    Lourens
     
    Lourens Smak, Oct 1, 2005
    #4
  5. On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 00:44:26 +0200, Lourens Smak <>
    wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > John A. Stovall <> wrote:
    >
    >> I suggest some of those who whine about the lack of "weather sealing"
    >> on the 5D read what a pro who makes his living shooting in all kinds
    >> of conditions has to say about the subject.
    >>
    >> http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/5d-field.shtml

    >
    >Are you talking about this quote?
    >"For some reason though, the 5D that I was testing seemed to attract
    >more dust than usual."
    >;-)
    >Lourens


    Dust on the sensor has little to do with "weather sealing".
    **********************************************************

    "A combat photographer should be able to make you see the
    color of blood in black and white"


    David Douglas Duncan
    Speaking on why in Vietnam
    he worked only in black and white
    http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/online/ddd/
     
    John A. Stovall, Oct 2, 2005
    #5
  6. John A. Stovall

    Rich Guest

    On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 20:27:34 GMT, John A. Stovall
    <> wrote:

    >I suggest some of those who whine about the lack of "weather sealing"
    >on the 5D read what a pro who makes his living shooting in all kinds
    >of conditions has to say about the subject.
    >
    >http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/5d-field.shtml
    >
    >


    Does this mean the $7000 Canon can now dispense with the sealing
    and it's price drop?
    -Rich
     
    Rich, Oct 2, 2005
    #6
  7. John A. Stovall

    Mark² Guest

    David J. Littleboy wrote:
    > "John A. Stovall" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> I suggest some of those who whine about the lack of "weather sealing"
    >> on the 5D read what a pro who makes his living shooting in all kinds
    >> of conditions has to say about the subject.
    >>
    >> http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/5d-field.shtml
    >>
    >> I suspect those who are doing the whining don't even go out when
    >> there's a heavy dew.


    Hey! Don't call me a whimperer!
    :)
    I actually HAVE taken my 10D into rain and continued shooting, though not to
    the extent I did/would with my EOS 3 (which seems to be far more sealed).

    > Yep. That's my take, too. None of my other cameras have "weather
    > sealing", and I certainly wouldn't submit any camera to the kind of
    > abuse the 'weather sealing wimperers' seem to think is a daily
    > occurrance.
    > Now a real complaint with the 5D is the insanely short eye relief and
    > dim info readout (with tiny characters and symbols to add insult to
    > injury) in the viewfinder. Sheesh. The pre-set an EV offset and do AE
    > with the spotmeter trick is going to work fine, but without the grid
    > focusing screen, using the spot meter as a generic spotmeter is going
    > to be hard (because the center point is not clearly marked on the
    > screen). Sheesh.


    Now that's just weird. I wonder why not!
    You CAN buy different screens for the 5D, though.
    Perhaps one of them will offer a better grid.
     
    Mark², Oct 2, 2005
    #7
  8. John A. Stovall

    dylan Guest


    > I actually HAVE taken my 10D into rain and continued shooting, though not
    > to
    > the extent I did/would with my EOS 3 (which seems to be far more sealed).
    >


    How do you determine your EOS3 is more sealed than your 10D, I have both
    models and would rate them about the same ?.

    My policy is keep water to a minimum.

    I would expect the 5D to be similar to the EOS 3 and certainly not sealed
    like the 1 series (film or digital).

    I've waited for the digital equivalent to the EOS 3, unfortunately the 5D
    doesn't seem to offer as good a AF system (less points) but maybe they are
    as small to offer more accuracy than the 10D etc, or multi-spot metering
    which I like.

    Cheers
     
    dylan, Oct 2, 2005
    #8
  9. On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 22:41:33 -0400, Rich <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 20:27:34 GMT, John A. Stovall
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>I suggest some of those who whine about the lack of "weather sealing"
    >>on the 5D read what a pro who makes his living shooting in all kinds
    >>of conditions has to say about the subject.
    >>
    >>http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/5d-field.shtml
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Does this mean the $7000 Canon can now dispense with the sealing
    >and it's price drop?
    >-Rich


    Still having that problem with reading comprehension, Rich?


    **********************************************************

    "A combat photographer should be able to make you see the
    color of blood in black and white"


    David Douglas Duncan
    Speaking on why in Vietnam
    he worked only in black and white
    http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/online/ddd/
     
    John A. Stovall, Oct 2, 2005
    #9
  10. On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 21:16:44 -0700, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
    number here)@cox..net> wrote:

    >David J. Littleboy wrote:
    >> "John A. Stovall" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> I suggest some of those who whine about the lack of "weather sealing"
    >>> on the 5D read what a pro who makes his living shooting in all kinds
    >>> of conditions has to say about the subject.
    >>>
    >>> http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/5d-field.shtml
    >>>
    >>> I suspect those who are doing the whining don't even go out when
    >>> there's a heavy dew.

    >
    >Hey! Don't call me a whimperer!
    >:)
    >I actually HAVE taken my 10D into rain and continued shooting, though not to
    >the extent I did/would with my EOS 3 (which seems to be far more sealed).


    Your EOS-3 is not weathersealed according to Canon.. Why don't you
    read what Canon says about it?

    http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelFeaturesAct&fcategoryid=138&modelid=7246

    In contrast to the weathersealing on the 1 series bodies.

    http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelFeaturesAct&fcategoryid=138&modelid=7244

    Your EOS-3 is no more weathersealed that a 5D.


    **********************************************************

    "A combat photographer should be able to make you see the
    color of blood in black and white"


    David Douglas Duncan
    Speaking on why in Vietnam
    he worked only in black and white
    http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/online/ddd/
     
    John A. Stovall, Oct 2, 2005
    #10
  11. John A. Stovall

    Skip M Guest

    "John A. Stovall" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 21:16:44 -0700, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
    > number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >
    >>David J. Littleboy wrote:


    >>:)
    >>I actually HAVE taken my 10D into rain and continued shooting, though not
    >>to
    >>the extent I did/would with my EOS 3 (which seems to be far more sealed).

    >
    > Your EOS-3 is not weathersealed according to Canon.. Why don't you
    > read what Canon says about it?
    >
    > http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelFeaturesAct&fcategoryid=138&modelid=7246


    Before you jump in there, read _all_ that Canon has to say about it:

    http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/f_camera.html

    To wit: "The same level of protection against moisture and dust as EOS-1N"
    >
    >
    > Your EOS-3 is no more weathersealed that a 5D.
    >
    >

    Can't argue that point, since Canon hasn't said just how weathersealed the
    5d is, but I suspect that the 3 is better sealed.

    --
    Skip Middleton
    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
     
    Skip M, Oct 2, 2005
    #11
  12. John A. Stovall

    Skip M Guest

    "Rich" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 20:27:34 GMT, John A. Stovall
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>I suggest some of those who whine about the lack of "weather sealing"
    >>on the 5D read what a pro who makes his living shooting in all kinds
    >>of conditions has to say about the subject.
    >>
    >>http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/5d-field.shtml
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Does this mean the $7000 Canon can now dispense with the sealing
    > and it's price drop?
    > -Rich


    Your leaps of logic sometimes border on the staggering...

    --
    Skip Middleton
    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
     
    Skip M, Oct 2, 2005
    #12
  13. John A. Stovall

    Mark² Guest

    dylan wrote:
    >> I actually HAVE taken my 10D into rain and continued shooting,
    >> though not to
    >> the extent I did/would with my EOS 3 (which seems to be far more
    >> sealed).

    >
    > How do you determine your EOS3 is more sealed than your 10D, I have
    > both models and would rate them about the same ?.


    Well...for one, all you have to do is look at the memory card door on the
    10D (and 20, D30, D60, etc.). -There is nothing at all there to provide
    any kind of seal.
     
    Mark², Oct 2, 2005
    #13
  14. On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 08:09:34 -0700, "Skip M" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >
    >
    >"John A. Stovall" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 21:16:44 -0700, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
    >> number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >>
    >>>David J. Littleboy wrote:

    >
    >>>:)
    >>>I actually HAVE taken my 10D into rain and continued shooting, though not
    >>>to
    >>>the extent I did/would with my EOS 3 (which seems to be far more sealed).

    >>
    >> Your EOS-3 is not weathersealed according to Canon.. Why don't you
    >> read what Canon says about it?
    >>
    >> http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelFeaturesAct&fcategoryid=138&modelid=7246

    >
    >Before you jump in there, read _all_ that Canon has to say about it:
    >
    >http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/f_camera.html
    >
    >To wit: "The same level of protection against moisture and dust as EOS-1N"


    And I say the specs count more than that. Canon is saying "protection
    against moisture and dust" not what they consider true weathersealing
    as in the other which they spell out in great detail.

    "The EOS-1V's body sets new standards for water and dust resistance.
    Professional cameras must be impervious to sharp changes in
    temperature; they must also be resistant to water, sand and dust. In
    other words, the professional camera must work smoothly under a wide
    range of conditions.
    The EOS-1V has been developed and manufactured to reflect feedback
    from professional photographers who work in severe environments, as
    well as Canon's own expertise in this area. Following a reassessment
    of the severity of conditions that may apply in some shooting
    situations, Canon has succeeded in raising the level of water and dust
    resistance. The 72 major body seams and moving parts, such as the
    shutter button, selector buttons and Main/Quick Control Dials, are
    carefully sealed with silicone rubber, and the edges of the back cover
    are thoroughly finished. Furthermore, the battery chamber located
    inside the new grip GR-E2 is protected by packing, while the insides
    of function buttons, found on the upper left of the body, are
    protected from dust and water by a silicone rubber boot."

    http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ModelFeaturesAct&fcategoryid=138&modelid=7244

    That's a lot more than just, "protection against moisture and dust".
    **********************************************************

    "A combat photographer should be able to make you see the
    color of blood in black and white"


    David Douglas Duncan
    Speaking on why in Vietnam
    he worked only in black and white
    http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/exhibitions/online/ddd/
     
    John A. Stovall, Oct 2, 2005
    #14
  15. John A. Stovall

    dylan Guest

    "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote in message
    news:WuT%e.41303$sx2.35868@fed1read02...
    > dylan wrote:
    >>> I actually HAVE taken my 10D into rain and continued shooting,
    >>> though not to
    >>> the extent I did/would with my EOS 3 (which seems to be far more
    >>> sealed).

    >>
    >> How do you determine your EOS3 is more sealed than your 10D, I have
    >> both models and would rate them about the same ?.

    >
    > Well...for one, all you have to do is look at the memory card door on the
    > 10D (and 20, D30, D60, etc.). -There is nothing at all there to provide
    > any kind of seal.
    >


    There's no seals on any EOS 3 doors either.
     
    dylan, Oct 2, 2005
    #15
  16. John A. Stovall

    Mark² Guest

    dylan wrote:
    > "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote in message
    > news:WuT%e.41303$sx2.35868@fed1read02...
    >> dylan wrote:
    >>>> I actually HAVE taken my 10D into rain and continued shooting,
    >>>> though not to
    >>>> the extent I did/would with my EOS 3 (which seems to be far more
    >>>> sealed).
    >>>
    >>> How do you determine your EOS3 is more sealed than your 10D, I have
    >>> both models and would rate them about the same ?.

    >>
    >> Well...for one, all you have to do is look at the memory card door
    >> on the 10D (and 20, D30, D60, etc.). -There is nothing at all there
    >> to provide any kind of seal.
    >>

    >
    > There's no seals on any EOS 3 doors either.


    But there is on the buttons behind the doors.
    Also, the door doesn't cover highly sensitive memory card connection pins.
     
    Mark², Oct 2, 2005
    #16
  17. John A. Stovall

    dylan Guest

    >
    > But there is on the buttons behind the doors.
    > Also, the door doesn't cover highly sensitive memory card connection pins.
    >


    If the water reaches all the way to the CF pins (approx 4cm) into the body
    you will have a problem !
     
    dylan, Oct 2, 2005
    #17
  18. John A. Stovall

    Mark² Guest

    dylan wrote:
    >> But there is on the buttons behind the doors.
    >> Also, the door doesn't cover highly sensitive memory card connection
    >> pins.

    >
    > If the water reaches all the way to the CF pins (approx 4cm) into the
    > body you will have a problem !


    When shooting vertically, any water that gets in through the unprotected
    door will be all set up to run right in. :)
    I'm not paranoid, and I DO shoot in rain...but for crying out loud! -How
    tough would it be to put just a simple strip/rubber gasket between the door
    edge and the body?????

    THAT...doesn't require tight tolerances/difficult manufacture, etc. It
    would be easy as pie.
    They just don't do it.
    Silly.
     
    Mark², Oct 2, 2005
    #18
  19. John A. Stovall

    Rich Guest

    On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 08:10:16 -0700, "Skip M" <>
    wrote:

    >"Rich" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 20:27:34 GMT, John A. Stovall
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>I suggest some of those who whine about the lack of "weather sealing"
    >>>on the 5D read what a pro who makes his living shooting in all kinds
    >>>of conditions has to say about the subject.
    >>>
    >>>http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/5d-field.shtml
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Does this mean the $7000 Canon can now dispense with the sealing
    >> and it's price drop?
    >> -Rich

    >
    >Your leaps of logic sometimes border on the staggering...


    Because none of your justifications for Canon pricing hold up.
    Canon is charging what they are charging because they have no
    FF competition, Kodak is out of the business and their older
    offerings probably don't stand up to the Canons anyway, in terms
    of output quality. Once Canon finally faces some competition
    (assuming anyone else sees the benefit of going FF) then prices
    for the bodies will drop, sealing, 48point focusing be damned.
    -Rich
     
    Rich, Oct 3, 2005
    #19
  20. John A. Stovall

    Skip M Guest

    "John A. Stovall" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    >>
    >>Before you jump in there, read _all_ that Canon has to say about it:
    >>
    >>http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/f_camera.html
    >>
    >>To wit: "The same level of protection against moisture and dust as EOS-1N"

    >
    > And I say the specs count more than that. Canon is saying "protection
    > against moisture and dust" not what they consider true weathersealing
    > as in the other which they spell out in great detail.


    Now you're just picking nits, since the 1v was an improvement over the 1n,
    and the 3 blurb says it matches the 1n, we can safely assume that the 1n,
    and thus the 3 had some form of sealing, which we are also save in assuming
    exceeds that of the 5D.

    >
    > "The EOS-1V's body sets new standards for water and dust resistance.
    > Professional cameras must be impervious to sharp changes in
    > temperature; they must also be resistant to water, sand and dust. In
    > other words, the professional camera must work smoothly under a wide
    > range of conditions.
    > The EOS-1V has been developed and manufactured to reflect feedback
    > from professional photographers who work in severe environments, as
    > well as Canon's own expertise in this area. Following a reassessment
    > of the severity of conditions that may apply in some shooting
    > situations, Canon has succeeded in raising the level of water and dust
    > resistance. The 72 major body seams and moving parts, such as the
    > shutter button, selector buttons and Main/Quick Control Dials, are
    > carefully sealed with silicone rubber, and the edges of the back cover
    > are thoroughly finished. Furthermore, the battery chamber located
    > inside the new grip GR-E2 is protected by packing, while the insides
    > of function buttons, found on the upper left of the body, are
    > protected from dust and water by a silicone rubber boot."


    I read all that, nothing there contradicts the idea that the 1n was
    protected against moisture and dust, nor that the 3 was equally as protected
    from same as the 1n, since that is what Canon says. Since the specs for the
    1n are no longer on the Canon site, we could continue this hypothetical tit
    for tat for a long time without resolving anything. But don't you think
    that the 1n was sealed to some degree or another? I have one, and it is
    better sealed (doors, lens mount, etc.) than my A2, I'll tell you that.

    >
    > That's a lot more than just, "protection against moisture and dust".
    > **********************************************************
    >

    --
    Skip Middleton
    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
     
    Skip M, Oct 3, 2005
    #20
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