The future of VOIP providers in the UK

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk, Aug 31, 2005.

  1. Guest

    On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:41:04 +0100, "RH"
    <> wrote:


    >SIPGATE still having voicemail in beta, by this time sipgate would have lost
    >all the potential it has had / does have and other
    >companies would have passed it by.

    You are totally wrong with this statement OTHER companies HAVE passed
    Sipgate by NOW !! other companies whoever they may be provide good
    service and don't have services in beta for ever and a day .
     
    , Aug 31, 2005
    #1
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  2. Guest

    On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:21:30 +0100, "RH"
    <> wrote:


    >Don't get me wrong I think sipgate is a great product, where else can you
    >get a better value product for incoming calls
    >with a geographic number, but they had the potential to be the market leader
    >and they are just letting slip away
    >
    >

    If sipgate where/are giving their German customers the same level of
    service and support that they give their UK customers I would think
    they would have gone out of business long before they had ever had the
    chance of moving into the UK market .
     
    , Aug 31, 2005
    #2
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  3. Guest

    On 1 Sep 2005 05:26:24 -0700, "Mathew Curtis"
    <> wrote:
    >Wow that was very reserved dex well done :) and I do agree with you
    >100% there is a small handful of very good voip providers and more and
    >more people seem to be doing away with landlines and going the voip
    >route

    I would think if NTL and Telewest where to spend a bit/lot of money
    and had the same coverage that BT has with ADSL then they could easily
    knock BT completely out of residential line provision, the way with
    VOIP is not having to pay BT for line rental at all and having an
    Internet and phone service combined for the price of a broadband
    connection . Has it is shortly going to be possible to have a 10 Mb
    connection with TW for 35.00 a month I would think people who can
    get cable will be moving over and slinging out BT and their ADSL
    ISP's .
     
    , Aug 31, 2005
    #3
  4. Guest

    On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:30:29 +0100, "Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk>
    wrote:
    >But if Sipgate do hang on VM will be in Beta 2 , Ie, Emails now have no text
    >and the messages are in French. But they are working on it (honest)


    This has got to be the next stage of their efforts to provide a worse
    service than they are providing now Ian .
     
    , Aug 31, 2005
    #4
  5. RH Guest

    I am stuck inside with a ankle and bored out my brains and started having
    thoughts about the future

    Just wondering if anyone has any predictions for the residential VOIP in 12
    months time?
    My predictions :

    VOIP will start to come into the mainstream like Internet did 8 years ago.
    most users will just want a product which works and needs no hacking about
    with port forwarding.
    So people like Vonage who have advertising money behind them and offer a
    simple box solution will
    start to dominate.

    Internet ISP who have been doing very little will get into VOIP big time,
    they have customer base which they
    can use and can premote better quality sound by having less latency to
    servers

    Internet Service Providers will start playing silly buggers with VOIP users
    to ensure their VOIP solution is used
    T&C clauses and degration of voip data

    BT fightring hard againt anything to do with VOIP especially the ability to
    have ADSL without a live telephone number

    SIPGATE still having voicemail in beta, by this time sipgate would have lost
    all the potential it has had / does have and other
    companies would have passed it by.

    Standard SIP sevice providers turning more to hosted PBX suppliers for the
    same cost/ or very low fees, voipfone/voiptalk have already started
    this

    bickering still occuring on uk.telecome.voip

    Regards,

    Rolf
     
    RH, Sep 1, 2005
    #5
  6. RH Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:41:04 +0100, "RH"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>SIPGATE still having voicemail in beta, by this time sipgate would have
    >>lost
    >>all the potential it has had / does have and other
    >>companies would have passed it by.

    > You are totally wrong with this statement OTHER companies HAVE passed
    > Sipgate by NOW !! other companies whoever they may be provide good
    > service and don't have services in beta for ever and a day .


    I agree on a technical scale they were left back some time ago,
    but marketshare wise sipgate still seems most poplular, at least on the
    phones I sell, I think only
    because they offer free geographic number. and the look of the website etc
    is user friendly, compeared to
    people like voiptalk.

    It seems pretty obvious sipgate just took their german product and gave it
    an english translation and then gave up on it.

    Don't get me wrong I think sipgate is a great product, where else can you
    get a better value product for incoming calls
    with a geographic number, but they had the potential to be the market leader
    and they are just letting slip away
     
    RH, Sep 1, 2005
    #6
  7. wrote:
    > On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:41:04 +0100, "RH"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >SIPGATE still having voicemail in beta, by this time sipgate would have lost
    > >all the potential it has had / does have and other
    > >companies would have passed it by.

    > You are totally wrong with this statement OTHER companies HAVE passed
    > Sipgate by NOW !! other companies whoever they may be provide good
    > service and don't have services in beta for ever and a day .


    Wow that was very reserved dex well done :) and I do agree with you
    100% there is a small handful of very good voip providers and more and
    more people seem to be doing away with landlines and going the voip
    route although I think there will be a much higher uptake as and when
    naked DSL is introduced and already there is the likes of
    http://www.itspa.org.uk/ who deal with regulatory issues surrounding
    voip and bt plan to have an entire ip based network by 2009

    Mat
     
    Mathew Curtis, Sep 1, 2005
    #7
  8. Ian Guest

    >
    > VOIP will start to come into the mainstream like Internet did 8 years ago.
    > most users will just want a product which works and needs no hacking about
    > with port forwarding.
    > So people like Vonage who have advertising money behind them and offer a
    > simple box solution will
    > start to dominate.
    >

    I agree, But expect in the new couple of years

    > Internet ISP who have been doing very little will get into VOIP big time,
    > they have customer base which they
    > can use and can premote better quality sound by having less latency to
    > servers
    >

    They allready are, But I think very soon all ISPs will be offering VOIP

    > Internet Service Providers will start playing silly buggers with VOIP

    users
    > to ensure their VOIP solution is used
    > T&C clauses and degration of voip data
    >

    Yep, Allready happening over the pond

    > BT fightring hard againt anything to do with VOIP especially the ability

    to
    > have ADSL without a live telephone number
    >

    Very wrong on this one, BT will be a driving force behind it, Remeber they
    launched one of the first mainstream voip offerings

    > SIPGATE still having voicemail in beta, by this time sipgate would have

    lost
    > all the potential it has had / does have and other
    > companies would have passed it by.


    Sipgate are allready passed by and in a few years will be gone, as will most
    of the other small voip companies as the ISPs take over.
    But if Sipgate do hang on VM will be in Beta 2 , Ie, Emails now have no text
    and the messages are in French. But they are working on it (honest)



    >
    > Standard SIP sevice providers turning more to hosted PBX suppliers for the
    > same cost/ or very low fees, voipfone/voiptalk have already started
    > this
    >

    I agree , The mainstream PBX makers will be launching CO systems to provide
    this soon.

    > bickering still occuring on uk.telecome.voip
    >

    Nah

    >
     
    Ian, Sep 1, 2005
    #8
  9. wrote:
    > On 1 Sep 2005 05:26:24 -0700, "Mathew Curtis"
    > <> wrote:
    > >Wow that was very reserved dex well done :) and I do agree with you
    > >100% there is a small handful of very good voip providers and more and
    > >more people seem to be doing away with landlines and going the voip
    > >route

    > I would think if NTL and Telewest where to spend a bit/lot of money
    > and had the same coverage that BT has with ADSL then they could easily
    > knock BT completely out of residential line provision, the way with
    > VOIP is not having to pay BT for line rental at all and having an
    > Internet and phone service combined for the price of a broadband
    > connection . Has it is shortly going to be possible to have a 10 Mb
    > connection with TW for 35.00 a month I would think people who can
    > get cable will be moving over and slinging out BT and their ADSL
    > ISP's .


    yep i agree i done away with bt and i am with NTL Broadband now and not
    looked back

    Mat
     
    Mathew Curtis, Sep 1, 2005
    #9
  10. Chris Blunt Guest

    On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:41:04 +0100, "RH"
    <> wrote:

    >BT fightring hard againt anything to do with VOIP especially the ability to
    >have ADSL without a live telephone number


    I don't think you're right with that part of your predictions. BT were
    the first UK company to launch a VoIP service to consumers almost two
    years ago. Far from not having anything to do with VoIP, BT are in the
    process of converting their entire voice network to VoIP.

    Chris
     
    Chris Blunt, Sep 1, 2005
    #10
  11. Chris Blunt Guest

    On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:50:00 +0100, wrote:

    >On 1 Sep 2005 05:26:24 -0700, "Mathew Curtis"
    ><> wrote:
    >>Wow that was very reserved dex well done :) and I do agree with you
    >>100% there is a small handful of very good voip providers and more and
    >>more people seem to be doing away with landlines and going the voip
    >>route

    >I would think if NTL and Telewest where to spend a bit/lot of money
    >and had the same coverage that BT has with ADSL then they could easily
    >knock BT completely out of residential line provision, the way with
    >VOIP is not having to pay BT for line rental at all and having an
    >Internet and phone service combined for the price of a broadband
    >connection . Has it is shortly going to be possible to have a 10 Mb
    >connection with TW for 35.00 a month I would think people who can
    >get cable will be moving over and slinging out BT and their ADSL
    >ISP's .


    I don't see how anything will change much. Most of the cost of a BT
    phone line is for the provision of the physical copper pair into your
    building. If you do away with that you'll still need to replace it
    with something else to run an IP connection over, whether it be a
    cable provided by BT or anyone else. Digging up the street to run
    cables to individual buildings doesn't come cheap, whoever does it.

    Chris
     
    Chris Blunt, Sep 1, 2005
    #11
  12. Nick Ward Guest

    If by VoIP you mean literally 'voice over IP', then the short answer is
    that the telcos will migrate their networks from being TDM-based to
    voice over packet, i.e. the 'VoIP providers' in the UK in the future
    will be the TDM providers we have now. The reason is quite prosaic -
    TDM switches are getting more costly to make as they are based on old
    technology. Softswitches are expensive to develop, but much cheaper to
    make and use current technology.

    With regard to current UK VoIP service providers, my impression is that
    we are in about the same position as the US market was in 2000. At
    that time, companies such as ITXC offered low-cost international calls
    over the Internet. The customer base was dominated by expatriots
    calling their relatives back home. The current UK market seems to
    comprise those who are interested in the technology and/or those who
    want cheaper phone calls, i.e. innovators and early adopters. I gather
    that Vonage is now up to about 1M subscribers in the US, so this gives
    an idea of how long it's taken for the VoIP market to grow there.

    The challenge for the telcoms industry is to identify applications
    which are going to drive deployment of a true broadband network. Given
    that 7M homes in the UK have a satellite dish, do we want/need TV over
    the phone line (whether it's copper or fibre)? If we have multi-MB
    access to our homes, will we all buy videophones? We didn't when we
    had ISDN2. Or are we going to start swapping our DVDs on-line? To sum
    up, what's the golden application for mass-market broadband? If it's
    TV >> Sport >> Football then why change the telephone network to do
    something which Sky does already?

    Nick
     
    Nick Ward, Sep 1, 2005
    #12
  13. AD C Guest

    In article <df6pci$r15$1$>,
    says...
    > I am stuck inside with a ankle and bored out my brains and started having
    > thoughts about the future
    >
    > Just wondering if anyone has any predictions for the residential VOIP in 12
    > months time?
    > My predictions :
    >
    > VOIP will start to come into the mainstream like Internet did 8 years ago.
    > most users will just want a product which works and needs no hacking about
    > with port forwarding.
    > So people like Vonage who have advertising money behind them and offer a
    > simple box solution will
    > start to dominate.
    >
    > Internet ISP who have been doing very little will get into VOIP big time,
    > they have customer base which they
    > can use and can premote better quality sound by having less latency to
    > servers
    >
    > Internet Service Providers will start playing silly buggers with VOIP users
    > to ensure their VOIP solution is used
    > T&C clauses and degration of voip data
    >
    > BT fightring hard againt anything to do with VOIP especially the ability to
    > have ADSL without a live telephone number
    >
    > SIPGATE still having voicemail in beta, by this time sipgate would have lost
    > all the potential it has had / does have and other
    > companies would have passed it by.
    >
    > Standard SIP sevice providers turning more to hosted PBX suppliers for the
    > same cost/ or very low fees, voipfone/voiptalk have already started
    > this
    >
    > bickering still occuring on uk.telecome.voip
    >



    VOIP will be for a few people, most people will stay with the bog
    standard phone line, unless they can get cable.
    Until BT drops the line rental (it will never happen) it is not worth
    all the hassle and cost to use VOIP.
    People will use some sort of VOIP on their computer, with AIM, MSN
    messenger and even Skype, but as a replacement for their normal
    telephone system, I don't think so.

    It is not cost affective and people will only do things if it is going
    to cost them less money or they are going to get something out of it.

    If you want extra lines, or you don't pay a line rental, then VOIP will
    be ideal, but no VOIP supplier are going to Dominate, even if Dex thinks
    thay are.
     
    AD C, Sep 1, 2005
    #13
  14. AD C Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Wow that was very reserved dex well done :) and I do agree with you
    > 100% there is a small handful of very good voip providers and more and
    > more people seem to be doing away with landlines and going the voip
    > route although I think there will be a much higher uptake as and when
    > naked DSL is introduced and already there is the likes of
    > http://www.itspa.org.uk/ who deal with regulatory issues surrounding
    > voip and bt plan to have an entire ip based network by 2009
    >


    BT will not get rid of their line rental, after all, someone will still
    have to pay for the lines to be fixed.
    I suppose we could have the system they got in the U.S.A, where no one
    knows who ownes what line and pass the buck when things go wrong.

    It took my cousin 2 weeks to he line fixed and cost her a fortune in
    mobile phone calls to AT&T and some other company.

    I know I like to get rid of BT, but I don't think we will get rid of the
    line rental.
     
    AD C, Sep 1, 2005
    #14
  15. Guest

    On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:05:10 +0100, AD C <>
    wrote:
    >I don't know where you get this idea that we are going to have naked
    >DSL. Since most lines in this country are owned by BT, they are not
    >going to do away with their line rental as it is easy money.

    It is wrong for BT to force someone to have a phone line when all they
    need it for is an ADSL connection, if adsl can be split from the line
    in your house it can be spilt at the exchange and I think before long
    Offcom will force BT to do this and also charge a very small line
    rental if all you need is adsl .
     
    , Sep 1, 2005
    #15
  16. Guest

    On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 00:35:58 +0100, Paul Cupis <>
    wrote:


    >What makes you think such a line rental would be "very small"? They've
    >still got to cover the cost of maintain the network.

    Your comments above could also apply to LUS but LUS is here and is
    being allowed by BT I would be happy to be paying the same line rental
    has lus customers are paying there is basically no difference in
    usage.
     
    , Sep 2, 2005
    #16
  17. Well mebbe wires going way of telegrams and telegraph.

    Got WiFi, GSM, satellite and coming soon, for next few years, WiMax.
    None of them a one size fits all solution in themselves but combined
    get rid of some of reasons for having wires or fibres.

    Interesting that Skype has taken off as seems least elegant VOIP
    solution plus really tired of seeing Ezula and Bargain Buddy, Skype
    shows its heritage from Sharmann Networks developers of Kazaa.

    Hadn`t heard of SIP protocol at all before started looking around at
    Skype phones and discovered SIP phones that don`t need a PC running all
    the time.

    But Skype, Babble and now Google are getting the coverage,VOIP phones
    are still off the publics radar.

    Adam
     
    Adam Aglionby, Sep 2, 2005
    #17
  18. Guest

    On 03 Sep 2005 00:50:17 GMT, (Peter) wrote:

    ><> wrote:
    >[...]
    >> It is wrong for BT to force someone to have a phone line when all
    >> they need it for is an ADSL connection,

    >
    >If you don't have a phone line, how on earth are BT supposed to
    >deliver ADSL? RFC1149 avian carrier? Telepathy?

    A "phone" line carries both voice traffic and ADSL data one could or
    should be able to have use of just the data side of the line without
    having to have and be charged for the voice side of the line to put it
    simply .
     
    , Sep 2, 2005
    #18
  19. Mark Guest

    On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:50:57 +0800, Chris Blunt
    <> wrote:

    >On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:41:04 +0100, "RH"
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>BT fightring hard againt anything to do with VOIP especially the ability to
    >>have ADSL without a live telephone number

    >
    >I don't think you're right with that part of your predictions. BT were
    >the first UK company to launch a VoIP service to consumers almost two
    >years ago. Far from not having anything to do with VoIP, BT are in the
    >process of converting their entire voice network to VoIP.


    The BT 21CN voice solution will be baseband POTS to the customer, as
    we have now, i.e. VoIP only as far as the MSAN for the majority of
    lines.

    BT was half-hearted with BBV in 2003 and IMHO still is. It is hardly
    leading the end-end VoIP services market. It's possible that BT could
    get to the grand PSTN switch-off date and find that a sizeable
    proportion of its former customer base has deserted it along the way,
    especially when 'naked DSL' comes along in the interim.

    --
    Mark
     
    Mark, Sep 2, 2005
    #19
  20. Guest

    On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:58:06 +0100, AD C <>
    wrote:

    >My computer is on 24/7 and it don't cost me £60 a year, in fact I got 2
    >computers on 24/7 and it don't cost me £60 a year.

    We have two running 24/7 and if they where costing so much to run they
    would run out the front door quicker than they came in :))) .
     
    , Sep 2, 2005
    #20
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