"The Damned" - unedited version? (Lucino Visconti)

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by honuscc@yahoo.com, Apr 7, 2006.

  1. Guest

    I saw a listing for this on eBay which indicates 'unedited' version. I
    didn't know there was more than one. There was a U.S. release running at
    about 150 minutes. Is there a different one that is longer? This film has
    a little bit of everything. I hate to think I was still missing something?
    Someone clarify this?
    , Apr 7, 2006
    #1
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  2. <> wrote in message
    news:20060407133027.075$...
    >I saw a listing for this on eBay which indicates 'unedited' version. I
    > didn't know there was more than one. There was a U.S. release running at
    > about 150 minutes. Is there a different one that is longer? This film
    > has
    > a little bit of everything. I hate to think I was still missing
    > something?
    > Someone clarify this?


    Basically, it's probably the same 150 minute version released in the US
    (and Australia) on DVD.
    The 'unedited' part being the scene of incest which was originally cut to
    avoid an 'X' rating (with today's more lenient ratings, it could easily get
    an 'R' and in Australia the DVD is even M15+ (marginally harder than an
    American PG13)

    There are various reports of quite a bit having been cut for time and
    pacing reasons (with rumors of versions as long as 3+ hours,) but none of
    these versions have ever been released on video or DVD (and it's uncertain
    wether or not the footage even exists anymore.)

    So, short version, the Warner DVD (at least in America and Australia) is
    probably the 'unedited' cut the seller is refering to.
    The Man With No Name, Apr 10, 2006
    #2
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  3. Netmask Guest

    "The Man With No Name" <> wrote in message
    news:4439b517$0$7530$...
    >
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:20060407133027.075$...
    >>I saw a listing for this on eBay which indicates 'unedited' version. I
    >> didn't know there was more than one. There was a U.S. release running at
    >> about 150 minutes. Is there a different one that is longer? This film
    >> has
    >> a little bit of everything. I hate to think I was still missing
    >> something?
    >> Someone clarify this?

    >
    > Basically, it's probably the same 150 minute version released in the US
    > (and Australia) on DVD.
    > The 'unedited' part being the scene of incest which was originally cut to
    > avoid an 'X' rating (with today's more lenient ratings, it could easily
    > get an 'R' and in Australia the DVD is even M15+ (marginally harder than
    > an American PG13)
    >
    > There are various reports of quite a bit having been cut for time and
    > pacing reasons (with rumors of versions as long as 3+ hours,) but none of
    > these versions have ever been released on video or DVD (and it's uncertain
    > wether or not the footage even exists anymore.)
    >
    > So, short version, the Warner DVD (at least in America and Australia) is
    > probably the 'unedited' cut the seller is refering to.



    It's been on free to air TV uncut in Australia - I had a VHS off air that
    was identical to the DVD
    >
    >
    Netmask, Apr 10, 2006
    #3
  4. The Man With No Name <> wrote:

    > <> wrote in message
    > news:20060407133027.075$...
    > >I saw a listing for this on eBay which indicates 'unedited' version. I
    > > didn't know there was more than one. There was a U.S. release running at
    > > about 150 minutes. Is there a different one that is longer? This film
    > > has
    > > a little bit of everything. I hate to think I was still missing
    > > something?
    > > Someone clarify this?

    >
    > Basically, it's probably the same 150 minute version released in the US
    > (and Australia) on DVD.
    > The 'unedited' part being the scene of incest which was originally cut to
    > avoid an 'X' rating (with today's more lenient ratings, it could easily get
    > an 'R' and in Australia the DVD is even M15+ (marginally harder than an
    > American PG13)
    >
    > There are various reports of quite a bit having been cut for time and
    > pacing reasons (with rumors of versions as long as 3+ hours,) but none of
    > these versions have ever been released on video or DVD (and it's uncertain
    > wether or not the footage even exists anymore.)


    Has anything been cut besides what was cut in the original Italian
    version? I have an old interview to Visconti claiming he actually only
    was asked to cut a very little bit in the incestuous scene between
    Martin (Helmut Berger) and his mother Sofia (Ingrid Thulin). Visconti
    said (translation mine): <<If it is as they said, then there's incest
    between Hamlet and his mother, but between them there's lots of things
    but the incest; Hamlet never actually has intercourse with his mother
    and even in my film I was able to convince [the censors] that the scene
    was very elliptic. However, when I showed them the film with the tiny
    cut, they asked for a much longer cut, one which would have eliminated
    the whole scene, so I refused and stuck to it (...) I sais I could have
    cut more of that scene, but that I would have been forced to insert a
    counter-camp, and I said it would have made everything more graphic,
    because you would actually see a naked man and a naked woman on a bed.
    So I cut this counter-camp in and I showed them the film again, and we
    went back to that only one tiny cut>>.

    Which is to say, unless more cuts were made for foreign markets, cuts
    were far from being "quite a bit". I'd be glad to double check on my
    Italian DVD for any details you'd like to check.
    --
    UFV:portami via(VHS)/Il suo nome e Tsotsi/Il caimano/
    Factotum(A Man Who Preforms Many Jobs)/Hanno cambiato
    faccia - http://www.albertofarina.tk
    un fake di Alberto, Apr 10, 2006
    #4
  5. Guest

    lid (un fake di Alberto) wrote:
    > The Man With No Name <> wrote:
    >
    > > <> wrote in message
    > > news:20060407133027.075$...
    > > >I saw a listing for this on eBay which indicates 'unedited' version.
    > > >I
    > > > didn't know there was more than one. There was a U.S. release
    > > > running at about 150 minutes. Is there a different one that is
    > > > longer? This film has
    > > > a little bit of everything. I hate to think I was still missing
    > > > something?
    > > > Someone clarify this?

    > >
    > > Basically, it's probably the same 150 minute version released in the
    > > US (and Australia) on DVD.
    > > The 'unedited' part being the scene of incest which was originally cut
    > > to avoid an 'X' rating (with today's more lenient ratings, it could
    > > easily get an 'R' and in Australia the DVD is even M15+ (marginally
    > > harder than an American PG13)
    > >
    > > There are various reports of quite a bit having been cut for time and
    > > pacing reasons (with rumors of versions as long as 3+ hours,) but none
    > > of these versions have ever been released on video or DVD (and it's
    > > uncertain wether or not the footage even exists anymore.)

    >
    > Has anything been cut besides what was cut in the original Italian
    > version? I have an old interview to Visconti claiming he actually only
    > was asked to cut a very little bit in the incestuous scene between
    > Martin (Helmut Berger) and his mother Sofia (Ingrid Thulin). Visconti
    > said (translation mine): <<If it is as they said, then there's incest
    > between Hamlet and his mother, but between them there's lots of things
    > but the incest; Hamlet never actually has intercourse with his mother
    > and even in my film I was able to convince [the censors] that the scene
    > was very elliptic. However, when I showed them the film with the tiny
    > cut, they asked for a much longer cut, one which would have eliminated
    > the whole scene, so I refused and stuck to it (...) I sais I could have
    > cut more of that scene, but that I would have been forced to insert a
    > counter-camp, and I said it would have made everything more graphic,
    > because you would actually see a naked man and a naked woman on a bed.
    > So I cut this counter-camp in and I showed them the film again, and we
    > went back to that only one tiny cut>>.
    >
    > Which is to say, unless more cuts were made for foreign markets, cuts
    > were far from being "quite a bit". I'd be glad to double check on my
    > Italian DVD for any details you'd like to check.


    I actually have the Italian 150 min version in PAL format, but the timings
    listed on the US version show 157 minutes so that's why I'm a bit confused.
    I saw the film in the theaters and on VHS and Italian DVD but never
    remember much difference between them. There was never any actual sex
    scene between mother and son, just the strong suggestion.
    , Apr 10, 2006
    #5
  6. <> wrote in message
    news:20060410124337.389$...
    > lid (un fake di Alberto) wrote:
    >> The Man With No Name <> wrote:
    >>
    >> > <> wrote in message
    >> > news:20060407133027.075$...
    >> > >I saw a listing for this on eBay which indicates 'unedited' version.
    >> > >I
    >> > > didn't know there was more than one. There was a U.S. release
    >> > > running at about 150 minutes. Is there a different one that is
    >> > > longer? This film has
    >> > > a little bit of everything. I hate to think I was still missing
    >> > > something?
    >> > > Someone clarify this?
    >> >
    >> > Basically, it's probably the same 150 minute version released in the
    >> > US (and Australia) on DVD.
    >> > The 'unedited' part being the scene of incest which was originally cut
    >> > to avoid an 'X' rating (with today's more lenient ratings, it could
    >> > easily get an 'R' and in Australia the DVD is even M15+ (marginally
    >> > harder than an American PG13)
    >> >
    >> > There are various reports of quite a bit having been cut for time and
    >> > pacing reasons (with rumors of versions as long as 3+ hours,) but none
    >> > of these versions have ever been released on video or DVD (and it's
    >> > uncertain wether or not the footage even exists anymore.)

    >>
    >> Has anything been cut besides what was cut in the original Italian
    >> version? I have an old interview to Visconti claiming he actually only
    >> was asked to cut a very little bit in the incestuous scene between
    >> Martin (Helmut Berger) and his mother Sofia (Ingrid Thulin). Visconti
    >> said (translation mine): <<If it is as they said, then there's incest
    >> between Hamlet and his mother, but between them there's lots of things
    >> but the incest; Hamlet never actually has intercourse with his mother
    >> and even in my film I was able to convince [the censors] that the scene
    >> was very elliptic. However, when I showed them the film with the tiny
    >> cut, they asked for a much longer cut, one which would have eliminated
    >> the whole scene, so I refused and stuck to it (...) I sais I could have
    >> cut more of that scene, but that I would have been forced to insert a
    >> counter-camp, and I said it would have made everything more graphic,
    >> because you would actually see a naked man and a naked woman on a bed.
    >> So I cut this counter-camp in and I showed them the film again, and we
    >> went back to that only one tiny cut>>.
    >>
    >> Which is to say, unless more cuts were made for foreign markets, cuts
    >> were far from being "quite a bit". I'd be glad to double check on my
    >> Italian DVD for any details you'd like to check.

    >
    > I actually have the Italian 150 min version in PAL format, but the timings
    > listed on the US version show 157 minutes so that's why I'm a bit
    > confused.
    > I saw the film in the theaters and on VHS and Italian DVD but never
    > remember much difference between them. There was never any actual sex
    > scene between mother and son, just the strong suggestion.



    That difference would be entirely due to PAL speedup (PAL plays 4% faster
    than NTSC)

    I should further clarify, when I talk about 'quite a bit' being cut, I'm
    refering to scenes which were supposedly in early test-screenings, or scenes
    which were film and then didn't make the final cut. Just about every film
    every made has scenes which were filmed and didn't make the final cut, but
    in the case of The Damned, I heard there was more than usual (I think I read
    this on the IMDb board.)

    Incidentally, what does 'counter-camp' mean?
    The Man With No Name, Apr 11, 2006
    #6
  7. The Man With No Name <> wrote:

    > I should further clarify, when I talk about 'quite a bit' being cut, I'm
    > refering to scenes which were supposedly in early test-screenings, or scenes
    > which were film and then didn't make the final cut. Just about every film
    > every made has scenes which were filmed and didn't make the final cut, but
    > in the case of The Damned, I heard there was more than usual (I think I read
    > this on the IMDb board.)


    Yep, I understand so. However, this kind of rumours should be put aside,
    I think, when you have the director himself stating he only had to cut a
    very minor piece of film. Which is why I thought it'd be useful posting
    that interview excerpt.

    > Incidentally, what does 'counter-camp' mean?


    My mistake, sorry, due to the haste with which I wrote that post I
    wrongly created what I wrongly thought a good way to translate the
    italian expression "campo" and "controcampo". I was referring, of
    course, to what's commonly referred to as "reverse shot".
    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_Reverse_Shot)
    --
    UFV:portami via(VHS)/Il suo nome e Tsotsi/Il caimano/
    Factotum(A Man Who Preforms Many Jobs)/Hanno cambiato
    faccia - http://www.albertofarina.tk
    un fake di Alberto, Apr 11, 2006
    #7
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