Thank you again TelstraClear

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Steve B, Feb 20, 2004.

  1. Steve B

    Steve B Guest

    Having closed my ClearNet mail account (carrying my main domain-name,
    iecho.co.nz) for several days over a three-day delinquency in paying
    their bill, bounced a number of my emails, getting me automatically
    removed from at least one needed mailing list, and declined to accept
    my word over the phone that I'd sent the cheque (Telecom has in the
    past); TestiCular has, I discover this morning, diligently preserved
    every one of my 2158 outstanding spams, so I can have the pleasure of
    manually deleting them ten at a time.

    Otherwise, I run the risk that they will discontinue service to me
    again when my spam folder becomes full.

    There is a noticeable gap in my genuine emails between the 16th and
    the 20th (and I know for certain of some in that time that have been
    bounced, as I got notice from the senders via my work address). But
    the spams - 1240 of them from that period - kept on rolling through.

    Wake up Telecom. Up your volume limit on broadishband to something
    like T-C's 10 GB/month and get (back) into TV (some of that FirstMedia
    equipment is still hanging around Karori) and you might get my
    business back.

    Alternatively PLEASE T-C, clear my spam folder automatically more than
    once a month. There seems little point to your screening out my spam
    if I still have to go to your website and painstakingly delete it all
    myself. I wonder how the (graphically-enhanced) data volume I consume
    doing that compares with the volume I save from not having the spams
    come (in simple text form through Eudora) to my inbox.

    Get your act into gear over transferring my domain name from ClearNet
    to Paradise (I've been trying since before the merger); then neither
    of us will have to be bothered with the (STILL) separate little easily
    forgotten bills for the Clear service.

    And some more free TV channels to replace the acres of empty space and
    cinema promotions in my Saturn service would be nice too. By my count,
    I'm getting at most 70% of the number of channels I used to get and
    paying the same charge (plus inflation) as I did three or four years
    ago.

    Steve B.
     
    Steve B, Feb 20, 2004
    #1
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  2. "Steve B" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Having closed my ClearNet mail account (carrying my main domain-name,
    > iecho.co.nz) for several days over a three-day delinquency in paying
    > their bill, bounced a number of my emails, getting me automatically
    > removed from at least one needed mailing list, and declined to accept
    > my word over the phone that I'd sent the cheque (Telecom has in the
    > past); TestiCular has, I discover this morning, diligently preserved
    > every one of my 2158 outstanding spams, so I can have the pleasure of
    > manually deleting them ten at a time.
    >


    Try paying your bills on time. Works for me :)

    Most big companies will let you get at least a month behind before taking
    any action. I have friends who treat the "month or two" as their entitlement
    to not pay during that time, and when they push it that bit to far they act
    as if they're hard done by when their power/phone/whatever gets
    disconnected.

    3 days sounds extremely harsh

    Steve
     
    Stephen Williams, Feb 20, 2004
    #2
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  3. Steve B

    Chris Guest

    "Stephen Williams" <> wrote in
    news:JStZb.25360$:

    >
    > "Steve B" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Having closed my ClearNet mail account (carrying my main domain-name,
    >> iecho.co.nz) for several days over a three-day delinquency in paying
    >> their bill, bounced a number of my emails, getting me automatically
    >> removed from at least one needed mailing list, and declined to accept
    >> my word over the phone that I'd sent the cheque (Telecom has in the
    >> past); TestiCular has, I discover this morning, diligently preserved
    >> every one of my 2158 outstanding spams, so I can have the pleasure of
    >> manually deleting them ten at a time.
    >>

    >
    > Try paying your bills on time. Works for me :)
    >
    > Most big companies will let you get at least a month behind before
    > taking any action. I have friends who treat the "month or two" as
    > their entitlement to not pay during that time, and when they push it
    > that bit to far they act as if they're hard done by when their
    > power/phone/whatever gets disconnected.
    >
    > 3 days sounds extremely harsh
    >
    > Steve
    >
    >


    Yep 3 days is pretty harsh, but saving the SPAM ? gesh thats even worse
    and having to delete them 10 at a time is a joke. I'm with Paradise and
    just don't bother anymore but I wonder if that limits space for my real
    mail. The odd thing is the level of SPAM really increased after they
    bought that service in.

    --
    Chris

    "Two men walk into a bar. You'd think the second one would've ducked..."
     
    Chris, Feb 20, 2004
    #3
  4. Steve B

    Warwick Guest

    On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 04:59:17 +1300, Steve B wrote:

    > Having closed my ClearNet mail account (carrying my main domain-name,
    > iecho.co.nz) for several days over a three-day delinquency in paying
    > their bill, bounced a number of my emails, getting me automatically
    > removed from at least one needed mailing list, and declined to accept
    > my word over the phone that I'd sent the cheque (Telecom has in the
    > past); TestiCular has, I discover this morning, diligently preserved
    > every one of my 2158 outstanding spams, so I can have the pleasure of
    > manually deleting them ten at a time.
    >
    > Otherwise, I run the risk that they will discontinue service to me
    > again when my spam folder becomes full.
    >
    > There is a noticeable gap in my genuine emails between the 16th and
    > the 20th (and I know for certain of some in that time that have been
    > bounced, as I got notice from the senders via my work address). But
    > the spams - 1240 of them from that period - kept on rolling through.
    >
    > Wake up Telecom. Up your volume limit on broadishband to something
    > like T-C's 10 GB/month and get (back) into TV (some of that FirstMedia
    > equipment is still hanging around Karori) and you might get my
    > business back.
    >
    > Alternatively PLEASE T-C, clear my spam folder automatically more than
    > once a month. There seems little point to your screening out my spam
    > if I still have to go to your website and painstakingly delete it all
    > myself. I wonder how the (graphically-enhanced) data volume I consume
    > doing that compares with the volume I save from not having the spams
    > come (in simple text form through Eudora) to my inbox.
    >
    > Get your act into gear over transferring my domain name from ClearNet
    > to Paradise (I've been trying since before the merger); then neither
    > of us will have to be bothered with the (STILL) separate little easily
    > forgotten bills for the Clear service.
    >
    > And some more free TV channels to replace the acres of empty space and
    > cinema promotions in my Saturn service would be nice too. By my count,
    > I'm getting at most 70% of the number of channels I used to get and
    > paying the same charge (plus inflation) as I did three or four years
    > ago.
    >
    > Steve B.


    It is like they went through your mail while you were late, and just
    trashed the important stuff to piss you off. That is nasty.

    cheers
    Warwick
     
    Warwick, Feb 20, 2004
    #4
  5. Steve B

    Roger Ramjet Guest

    Steve B.

    You are clearly an muppet.

    1> All companies will cut off a service for lack of payment.

    2> Clearnet webmail retains messages for a month in the spam folder so
    that you can review the folder and to safegard against the deletion of
    legitimate emails. Quite how you manage to attract 15mb (the limit) of
    spam a month is worrying enough.

    3> You don't need delete ten messages at a time. Under the folders
    section you can click the trash can to the right of the spam folder.
    This will delete the entire folder.

    I haven't managed to attract even one spam message since joining
    Clear. But then again, I haven't "signed up" for any "free" services
    on the net.
     
    Roger Ramjet, Feb 21, 2004
    #5
  6. Steve B

    Steve B Guest

    What behaviour gets you spam? was Re: Thank you again TelstraClear

    On 20 Feb 2004 17:57:28 -0800, (Roger Ramjet)
    wrote:

    >Steve B.
    >
    >You are clearly an muppet.
    >
    >1> All companies will cut off a service for lack of payment.
    >

    After three days? As I say, if they got their act together and gave me
    one bill a month (several years after the company was supposed to have
    merged) the tiny (A5 size) ClearNet bills might not get overlooked
    occasionally.

    >2> Clearnet webmail retains messages for a month in the spam folder so
    >that you can review the folder and to safegard against the deletion of
    >legitimate emails.


    It shouldn't take a month to do that; they could quite easily make it
    fortnightly, or even weekly. Or (here's a bright idea) allow the user
    to schedule it.

    >Quite how you manage to attract 15mb (the limit) of
    >spam a month is worrying enough.
    >

    Worries me too; but as I say below, I have eliminated the obvious
    causes, AFAIK.

    >3> You don't need delete ten messages at a time. Under the folders
    >section you can click the trash can to the right of the spam folder.
    >This will delete the entire folder.
    >

    Thank you for that hint. You saved me a lot of time.

    >I haven't managed to attract even one spam message since joining
    >Clear. But then again, I haven't "signed up" for any "free" services
    >on the net.


    Why should you assume I have? I agree, signing up for free services is
    the act of a "muppet" I KNOW it attracts spam. I DON'T do it (other
    than once, as deliberate spam-bait, from a pair of specially-created
    addresses.)

    See:
    http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/UNID/CC256CED0016AD1ECC256C5C000D8473?OpenDocument

    OTOH there is NOTHING in the present state of the law and the
    ludicrously insecure procedures on such sites, to prevent others
    signing up on my behalf and without my consent.

    The question of how much spam a particular person attracts and why is
    something I periodically conceive the idea of conducting a poll on.

    Shall we try it: now?

    Some people do seem to get hardly any. Others, without a notable
    difference in their behaviour, get loads of it.

    I believe in my case, it may be because I have upset some
    childish-minded people with my opinions. These people can read past my
    (rather trivial) spam shield and "volunteer" me for "services" which
    get me spam; maybe I'd better go for greater anonymity or use a spare
    box for email replies to news posts (of which I get hardly any
    anyway).

    But perhaps there's some other hidden cause. I'd be grateful for
    further hints (which do not insult my intelligence) as to how my
    identity may be "leaking" out.

    At present, approximately 80% of my email is spam. I repeat, I do NOT
    spray my identity around websites, seeking free offers. I have munged
    hidden email addresses in my browsers and use a browser and email that
    are totally separate.

    "Is there anything else I could have done and have not done?"
    Improperia: Good Friday.

    Steve B.
     
    Steve B, Feb 21, 2004
    #6
  7. Steve B

    pete Guest

    Re: What behaviour gets you spam? was Re: Thank you again TelstraClear

    On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:24:48 +1300, Steve B wrote:

    > On 20 Feb 2004 17:57:28 -0800, (Roger Ramjet)
    > wrote:
    >


    >>3> You don't need delete ten messages at a time. Under the folders
    >>section you can click the trash can to the right of the spam folder.
    >>This will delete the entire folder.


    How do you display the folders section? Is this something that can be
    displayed from the https://www.paradise.net.nz/webmail/ page?
    Thanks
     
    pete, Feb 21, 2004
    #7
  8. Steve B

    Invisible Guest

    Re: What behaviour gets you spam? was Re: Thank you again TelstraClear

    On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:39:07 +1300, pete <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:24:48 +1300, Steve B wrote:
    >
    >> On 20 Feb 2004 17:57:28 -0800, (Roger Ramjet)
    >> wrote:
    >>

    >
    >>>3> You don't need delete ten messages at a time. Under the folders
    >>>section you can click the trash can to the right of the spam folder.
    >>>This will delete the entire folder.

    >
    >How do you display the folders section? Is this something that can be
    >displayed from the https://www.paradise.net.nz/webmail/ page?
    >Thanks


    Yep, if you have spam there's a "Spam" tab in your inbox.
     
    Invisible, Feb 21, 2004
    #8
  9. Steve B

    Chris Guest

    Re: What behaviour gets you spam? was Re: Thank you again TelstraClear

    pete <> wrote in
    news::

    > On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:24:48 +1300, Steve B wrote:
    >
    >> On 20 Feb 2004 17:57:28 -0800, (Roger Ramjet)
    >> wrote:
    >>

    >
    >>>3> You don't need delete ten messages at a time. Under the folders
    >>>section you can click the trash can to the right of the spam folder.
    >>>This will delete the entire folder.

    >
    > How do you display the folders section? Is this something that can be
    > displayed from the https://www.paradise.net.nz/webmail/ page?
    > Thanks
    >


    I tried to find that out in the help pages but found nothing so email the
    help desk to see if it can be deleted in bulk and if it counted towards you
    mail box allocation. They only reply to email during the week and say to
    expect a reply with in 4 days. I try and remember to post the results back
    here when I get them


    --
    Chris

    "Two men walk into a bar. You'd think the second one would've ducked..."
     
    Chris, Feb 21, 2004
    #9
  10. Steve B

    pete Guest

    Re: What behaviour gets you spam? was Re: Thank you again TelstraClear

    On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:28:58 +1300, Invisible wrote:

    > On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:39:07 +1300, pete <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:24:48 +1300, Steve B wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 20 Feb 2004 17:57:28 -0800, (Roger Ramjet)
    >>> wrote:
    >>>

    >>
    >>>>3> You don't need delete ten messages at a time. Under the folders
    >>>>section you can click the trash can to the right of the spam folder.
    >>>>This will delete the entire folder.

    >>
    >>How do you display the folders section? Is this something that can be
    >>displayed from the https://www.paradise.net.nz/webmail/ page?
    >>Thanks

    >
    > Yep, if you have spam there's a "Spam" tab in your inbox.


    Yeah, got the Spam tab, thats easy. Where's the trash can? Doesn't display
    on the view I have. Flash is turned on.
     
    pete, Feb 21, 2004
    #10
  11. Chris wrote:
    > The odd thing is the level of SPAM really increased after they
    > bought that service in.


    The reason for that is probably that they were doing manual filtering
    but once they introduced the automated one, they no longer needed to, so
    didn't.

    --
    Http://www.Dave.net.nz
    Play Hangman
    Register, and play Space Invaders or Pacman.
     
    T.N.O. - Dave.net.nz, Feb 21, 2004
    #11
  12. Steve B

    Steve B Guest

    Re: What behaviour gets you spam? was Re: Thank you again TelstraClear

    On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:39:07 +1300, pete <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:24:48 +1300, Steve B wrote:
    >
    >> On 20 Feb 2004 17:57:28 -0800, (Roger Ramjet)
    >> wrote:
    >>

    >
    >>>3> You don't need delete ten messages at a time. Under the folders
    >>>section you can click the trash can to the right of the spam folder.
    >>>This will delete the entire folder.

    >
    >How do you display the folders section? Is this something that can be
    >displayed from the https://www.paradise.net.nz/webmail/ page?
    >Thanks


    On that page, there is a top section (above the black strip with the
    box-header) with nine icons on it. The middle (fifth) of these is
    "folders".
    Click this and a predominantly blue screen is displayed with all your
    folders (standard ones: In, sent, draft, deleted, spam) displayed. The
    spam folder has a bin icon at right with the mouse-over caption
    "delete this folder" Click on this (OK the "are you sure?" message)
    and the spam folder and all its contents will disappear.
    The folder automatically recreates when the next piece of spam comes
    in.

    Hope this helps

    Steve B.
     
    Steve B, Feb 21, 2004
    #12
  13. Steve B

    Steve B Guest

    Re: What behaviour gets you spam? was Re: Thank you again TelstraClear

    On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:24:48 +1300, Steve B
    <> wrote:


    >At present, approximately 80% of my email is spam. I repeat, I do NOT
    >spray my identity around websites, seeking free offers. I have munged
    >hidden email addresses in my browsers and use a browser and email that
    >are totally separate.
    >
    >"Is there anything else I could have done and have not done?"
    > Improperia: Good Friday.
    >
    >Steve B.
    >

    I'll start: This morning's count.
    Spam folder: 58 messages
    Porn 11
    Enlargement 8
    Parmacy general 8
    "State of yr a/c" 2
    Unclassifiable 6
    Earnings/winnings 6
    Viagra etc 5
    general sales 7
    Evidence eliminator etc 1
    Meet women 4

    Inbox: 8 undetected spams
    Porn 4
    Gambling 1
    Viagra etc 1
    Meet women 1
    General sales 1

    Genuine emails 2 (well it is Sunday)

    My interest in censorship and the true extent of porn on the public
    internet etc may have brought about the porn emphasis through some
    covert address-trapping mechanism on websites (tho' as I explained, I
    munged all the concealed addresses I could find), or attention to my
    news postings. I'd be interested to see others' porn percentages;
    maybe this is quite a usual distribution. Otherwise, there seems
    absolutely no pattern to this reflecting websites I may have visited,
    etc.

    The undetected spam seems to have a broadly similar pattern to the
    filtered spam, which makes me wonder how the Brightmail filter and its
    human assistants are drawing the line.

    Steve B.
     
    Steve B, Feb 21, 2004
    #13
  14. Steve B

    Brian Harmer Guest

    On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:08:36 +1300, "T.N.O. - Dave.net.nz"
    <> wrote:

    >Chris wrote:
    >> The odd thing is the level of SPAM really increased after they
    >> bought that service in.

    >
    >The reason for that is probably that they were doing manual filtering
    >but once they introduced the automated one, they no longer needed to, so
    >didn't.


    And in many other threads, people have pointed out that correlation is
    not the same as causation.
     
    Brian Harmer, Feb 21, 2004
    #14
  15. Steve B

    Enkidu Guest

    On 20 Feb 2004 17:57:28 -0800, (Roger Ramjet)
    wrote:

    >Steve B.
    >
    >You are clearly an muppet.
    >
    >1> All companies will cut off a service for lack of payment.
    >
    >2> Clearnet webmail retains messages for a month in the spam folder so
    >that you can review the folder and to safegard against the deletion of
    >legitimate emails. Quite how you manage to attract 15mb (the limit) of
    >spam a month is worrying enough.
    >
    >3> You don't need delete ten messages at a time. Under the folders
    >section you can click the trash can to the right of the spam folder.
    >This will delete the entire folder.
    >
    >I haven't managed to attract even one spam message since joining
    >Clear. But then again, I haven't "signed up" for any "free" services
    >on the net.
    >

    SPAM appears to hit people differently. People I know get 10 SPAM a
    month if they are unlucky. I get 800 - 1000 per day. If you are one of
    the ones who gets hit hard, then you'd easily reach the limit. I had
    one SPAM which 1.5MB all by itself. Several others have been approx
    500kB. I had a spate of invalid virus bounces which had been "cleaned"
    by the receiving server, but the bounce had > 300kB of binary zeroes.
    Bastards!

    If he deletes all his SPAM folder in one go, he may miss valid emails.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Feb 21, 2004
    #15
  16. Re: What behaviour gets you spam? was Re: Thank you again TelstraClear

    Steve B wrote:
    > I'd be interested to see others' porn percentages;
    > maybe this is quite a usual distribution.



    Server doing my own webbased filtering, I cought all spam, and no false
    +ve/-ve
    32 total
    9 not swen or swen replies.
    of those 9, 4 were "get a bigger dick", 3 "your account details" 2
    selling computer gear.

    --
    Http://www.Dave.net.nz
    Play Hangman
    Register, and play Space Invaders or Pacman.
     
    T.N.O. - Dave.net.nz, Feb 21, 2004
    #16
  17. Steve B

    Ali P Guest

    Re: What behaviour gets you spam? was Re: Thank you again TelstraClear

    "Chris" <> wrote in message
    news:wiCZb.25404$...
    > I tried to find that out in the help pages but found nothing so email the
    > help desk to see if it can be deleted in bulk and if it counted towards

    you
    > mail box allocation. They only reply to email during the week and say to
    > expect a reply with in 4 days. I try and remember to post the results

    back
    > here when I get them
    >


    Please do - at the moment I seem to have to delete them a page at a time.
    Paradise is a good ISP but their webmail system is the pits. It doesn't even
    allow you to save sent items so I always have to CC myself when I send an
    email so I've got a record of it.
     
    Ali P, Feb 21, 2004
    #17
  18. Steve B

    Enkidu Guest

    Re: What behaviour gets you spam? was Re: Thank you again TelstraClear

    On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:24:48 +1300, Steve B
    <> wrote:
    >
    >The question of how much spam a particular person attracts and why is
    >something I periodically conceive the idea of conducting a poll on.
    >
    >Shall we try it: now?
    >
    >Some people do seem to get hardly any. Others, without a notable
    >difference in their behaviour, get loads of it.
    >

    I get 800 - 1000 per day, but my address is "out there".

    I dump hundreds from the major culprits a day. That's the likes of
    hotmail, yahoo, roadrunner, AT&T, and various "freenets" but strangely
    enough, not much from AOL. Plenty from China, Hong Kong, Korea, and
    Russia.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Feb 21, 2004
    #18
  19. Steve B

    Chris Guest

    "T.N.O. - Dave.net.nz" <> wrote in
    news:U_GZb.51472$:

    > Chris wrote:
    >> The odd thing is the level of SPAM really increased after they
    >> bought that service in.

    >
    > The reason for that is probably that they were doing manual filtering
    > but once they introduced the automated one, they no longer needed to, so
    > didn't.
    >


    By "manual filtering" are you saying that they just deleted some of my mail
    cause they though it was SPAM so that I'd never actually get to see it ?

    --
    Chris

    "Two men walk into a bar. You'd think the second one would've ducked..."
     
    Chris, Feb 22, 2004
    #19
  20. Steve B

    Chris Guest

    Brian Harmer <> wrote in
    news::

    > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:08:36 +1300, "T.N.O. - Dave.net.nz"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>Chris wrote:
    >>> The odd thing is the level of SPAM really increased after they
    >>> bought that service in.

    >>
    >>The reason for that is probably that they were doing manual filtering
    >>but once they introduced the automated one, they no longer needed to, so
    >>didn't.

    >
    > And in many other threads, people have pointed out that correlation is
    > not the same as causation.


    Yes, I'm sure it was just the way it worked out in the same way as SPAM on
    my Ihug account increased when they bought their filtering service in.

    I am assuming the spammers just increased their volume to try to defeat the
    continiously updated filters.

    --
    Chris

    "Two men walk into a bar. You'd think the second one would've ducked..."
     
    Chris, Feb 22, 2004
    #20
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