Telephone line testing for broadband

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Mick Cant, Feb 29, 2004.

  1. Mick Cant

    Mick Cant Guest

    Hi all,
    i signed up with anouther isp (better not say who I suppose)
    they tested the line and said yes it was suitable!
    on trying to set up the "free" D-Link DSL-200 ASDL Modem
    it reports a line fult and so will not connect up!

    would a different type of modem help or did they not test the line ?
    can "I" ask BT to test the line for me, so i know it is suitable?
    thanks for any help,
    mick cant.
    Mick Cant, Feb 29, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Mick Cant

    Alien Zord Guest

    "Mick Cant" <mickcant(no spam)@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi all,
    > i signed up with anouther isp (better not say who I suppose)
    > they tested the line and said yes it was suitable!
    > on trying to set up the "free" D-Link DSL-200 ASDL Modem
    > it reports a line fult and so will not connect up!
    >
    > would a different type of modem help or did they not test the line ?
    > can "I" ask BT to test the line for me, so i know it is suitable?
    > thanks for any help,
    > mick cant.
    >
    >

    Has your line actually been activated? Have you received an email from your
    new ISP to that effect? Your ADSL modem will not do anything until such
    time!
    Alien Zord, Feb 29, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. The test proves that the line is not faulty and establishes the likely
    signal to noise ratio that the line will sustain and hence its suitability
    for broadband. It is not definitive and, in my experience, they tend to err
    on the side of caution so it is unlikely that it will be the problem, at
    least until you try to use it a higher data transfer rates than tested for.

    Check the length of line between modem and master socket. The shorter the
    better. Do not use extension cables. Do make sure all sockets in use have
    good quality micro-filters. Do not exceed the REN and have too much hanging
    off the phone line. Route all cables away from high noise sources (e.g. keep
    away from DECT phones, the back of CRTs, microwave ovens (!), exercise
    bikes - I keep away from them too, a real bike has better scenery)

    If all that fails, it is more likely that the modem has problems in that it
    is either faulty or not configured correctly.

    I distrust USB ADSL modems, on principle rather than from practice; at least
    with ethernet you can localise the problems..




    "Mick Cant" <mickcant(no spam)@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi all,
    > i signed up with anouther isp (better not say who I suppose)
    > they tested the line and said yes it was suitable!
    > on trying to set up the "free" D-Link DSL-200 ASDL Modem
    > it reports a line fult and so will not connect up!
    >
    > would a different type of modem help or did they not test the line ?
    > can "I" ask BT to test the line for me, so i know it is suitable?
    > thanks for any help,
    > mick cant.
    >
    >
    eric the seal, Feb 29, 2004
    #3
  4. Mick Cant

    Mick Cant Guest

    Hi thanks for replying,
    No, I have not had an e-mail from the ISP, but they said they had sent one
    saying the line was actavated when I saw they were debiting
    my bank account, and I phoned them to query it!
    that is why I wonderd if I could check with BT myself if that was so!
    the problem with phoning, their help desk is they cannot just tell me "if"
    the line has been tested!
    but would they have sent me the modem if the line had not passed any test?
    mick cant.
    "Alien Zord" <> wrote in message
    news:c1sdaf$1lrff9$-berlin.de...
    > "Mick Cant" <mickcant(no spam)@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hi all,
    > > i signed up with anouther isp (better not say who I suppose)
    > > they tested the line and said yes it was suitable!
    > > on trying to set up the "free" D-Link DSL-200 ASDL Modem
    > > it reports a line fult and so will not connect up!
    > >
    > > would a different type of modem help or did they not test the line ?
    > > can "I" ask BT to test the line for me, so i know it is suitable?
    > > thanks for any help,
    > > mick cant.
    > >
    > >

    > Has your line actually been activated? Have you received an email from

    your
    > new ISP to that effect? Your ADSL modem will not do anything until such
    > time!
    >
    >
    Mick Cant, Feb 29, 2004
    #4
  5. Mick Cant

    Mick Cant Guest

    Hi eric,
    thanks for repling,
    what would be a better modem?
    should I be able to tell them I do not want a USB one
    is this the difference between there "free" one and a paid for one?
    mick cant.


    "eric the seal" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > The test proves that the line is not faulty and establishes the likely
    > signal to noise ratio that the line will sustain and hence its suitability
    > for broadband. It is not definitive and, in my experience, they tend to

    err
    > on the side of caution so it is unlikely that it will be the problem, at
    > least until you try to use it a higher data transfer rates than tested

    for.
    >
    > Check the length of line between modem and master socket. The shorter the
    > better. Do not use extension cables. Do make sure all sockets in use have
    > good quality micro-filters. Do not exceed the REN and have too much

    hanging
    > off the phone line. Route all cables away from high noise sources (e.g.

    keep
    > away from DECT phones, the back of CRTs, microwave ovens (!), exercise
    > bikes - I keep away from them too, a real bike has better scenery)
    >
    > If all that fails, it is more likely that the modem has problems in that

    it
    > is either faulty or not configured correctly.
    >
    > I distrust USB ADSL modems, on principle rather than from practice; at

    least
    > with ethernet you can localise the problems..
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Mick Cant" <mickcant(no spam)@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hi all,
    > > i signed up with anouther isp (better not say who I suppose)
    > > they tested the line and said yes it was suitable!
    > > on trying to set up the "free" D-Link DSL-200 ASDL Modem
    > > it reports a line fult and so will not connect up!
    > >
    > > would a different type of modem help or did they not test the line ?
    > > can "I" ask BT to test the line for me, so i know it is suitable?
    > > thanks for any help,
    > > mick cant.
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Mick Cant, Feb 29, 2004
    #5
  6. As far as your line fault problem, your modem should work as well as any
    other - if it isn't faulty.

    You can certainly tell them that you don't want their modem! But. USB modems
    are now incredibly cheap, if you shop around, and you won't get much back
    for it (I have seen them advertised for <£15). I would hang on to it because
    even if you bought another, having a spare is always useful (like if you get
    line faults again).

    Their modem MAY be configured only to work with their system. This often
    happens. You can sometimes get modems unlocked but, when they are so cheap,
    it is arguably not worth the effort. A paid-for modem (not from an ISP!)
    will not be locked to a particular ISP.

    The "better" alternative, arguably, is an ADSL router with built-in
    firewall. This has the advantages of additional security and makes it
    possible to share the connection with multiple computers, without one
    particular computer having to be on. This is often outweighed by the
    additional cost, need for network cards and cables and more complex setup.
    To me, one of the main advantages is that you only have to set up a firewall
    once, on the router, and not on every single computer.

    As you didn't mention my points on micro filters, line length, etc, I assume
    that those are all ok. Email your ISP technical support and ask them, but I
    would suspect that they will just send you another modem (see above, they
    are so cheap and certainly cheaper than engineer's time).



    "Mick Cant" <mickcant(no spam)@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi eric,
    > thanks for repling,
    > what would be a better modem?
    > should I be able to tell them I do not want a USB one
    > is this the difference between there "free" one and a paid for one?
    > mick cant.
    >
    >
    > "eric the seal" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    > > The test proves that the line is not faulty and establishes the likely
    > > signal to noise ratio that the line will sustain and hence its

    suitability
    > > for broadband. It is not definitive and, in my experience, they tend to

    > err
    > > on the side of caution so it is unlikely that it will be the problem, at
    > > least until you try to use it a higher data transfer rates than tested

    > for.
    > >
    > > Check the length of line between modem and master socket. The shorter

    the
    > > better. Do not use extension cables. Do make sure all sockets in use

    have
    > > good quality micro-filters. Do not exceed the REN and have too much

    > hanging
    > > off the phone line. Route all cables away from high noise sources (e.g.

    > keep
    > > away from DECT phones, the back of CRTs, microwave ovens (!), exercise
    > > bikes - I keep away from them too, a real bike has better scenery)
    > >
    > > If all that fails, it is more likely that the modem has problems in that

    > it
    > > is either faulty or not configured correctly.
    > >
    > > I distrust USB ADSL modems, on principle rather than from practice; at

    > least
    > > with ethernet you can localise the problems..
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "Mick Cant" <mickcant(no spam)@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > Hi all,
    > > > i signed up with anouther isp (better not say who I suppose)
    > > > they tested the line and said yes it was suitable!
    > > > on trying to set up the "free" D-Link DSL-200 ASDL Modem
    > > > it reports a line fult and so will not connect up!
    > > >
    > > > would a different type of modem help or did they not test the line ?
    > > > can "I" ask BT to test the line for me, so i know it is suitable?
    > > > thanks for any help,
    > > > mick cant.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    eric the seal, Feb 29, 2004
    #6
  7. Mick Cant

    Alien Zord Guest

    "Mick Cant" <mickcant(no spam)@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi thanks for replying,
    > No, I have not had an e-mail from the ISP, but they said they had sent one
    > saying the line was actavated when I saw they were debiting
    > my bank account, and I phoned them to query it!
    > that is why I wonderd if I could check with BT myself if that was so!
    > the problem with phoning, their help desk is they cannot just tell me "if"
    > the line has been tested!
    > but would they have sent me the modem if the line had not passed any test?
    >
    >

    They should not have entered into a contract with you until they had a
    confirmation from BT of your line's suitability for conversion. You can only
    ask your ISP for checks to be carried out (who will in turn ask BT) but you
    cannot ask BT directly.

    A note aside: Your D-link ADSL USB modem is rather old one and is based on
    the same chipset as the infamous Alcatel frog which was known for its
    incompatibility with many USB controllers mostly VIA based.
    Is the ADSL link light on it steady or is it flashing?
    Is the USB light (power) steady after boot-up?
    Alien Zord, Feb 29, 2004
    #7
  8. Mick Cant

    MaryL Guest

    "eric the seal" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    >
    > Do make sure all sockets in use have
    > good quality micro-filters.
    >
    >
    >


    I'm piggybacking here, but can you explain what you mean by sockets with
    micro-filters? I have a cable connection and use both a Toshiba cable modem
    and a Netgear router with firewall. I have used this setup for a couple of
    years, and it usually works well. However, I will occasionally find that I
    cannot access newsgroups ("server cannot be found"), and the only workaround
    is to turn everything off, disconnect by unplugging everything, wait a
    couple of minutes, then go through a process of plugging things in and
    starting up one by one. This is only a minor annoyance, but I have never
    been able to determine the cause. My ISP (Cox) blames the router and
    informs me that they do not support routers; tech support at Netgear blames
    the ISP.

    Thanks,
    MaryL
    MaryL, Feb 29, 2004
    #8
  9. ADSL works by sending the data traffic over the phone line. At the same
    time, the phone line can be used as normal. You can even dial-up over the
    phone line whilst connected via broadband. (Why bother? So you can test the
    security of your broadband by trying to break into it...and other reasons).
    However, you do need to stop the broadband stuff coming over the phone line
    from getting to your telephones (or analogue modem on the phone line). So
    you use a little box that looks like a phone socket doubler, plug it into
    the telephone wall socket, and plug your phone into it. It filters out the
    broadband stuff, hence its name, a micro filter.

    None of this is at all relevant to your cable connection!

    Your problem can be broken down a bit more, in order to pinpoint what is
    causing it.
    "Server not found" could be caused either by there not being a route from
    your computer to the server or by the lookup process which converts the name
    of the server into its network address.

    When it is working, open a DOS window and
    type tracert <<server_name>> where <<server_name>> is the name of your news
    service. Something like news60.giganews.com

    This will show you the real address of your server, (it will be on the top
    line and look like [207.133.34.56]) and the path from your computer to your
    server. Print it out or write it down.

    When you get the error, do the tracert command again. If it fails
    immediately, try tracert [207.133.34.56] (replacing these numbers with the
    numbers of your server).

    If the second works but the first doesn't then the problem is not the route
    but the lookup process.. Come back and tell us or email me (removing the bit
    off the end of my address!).

    If both fail then it is the route and you can narrow down how far it gets.
    Going back to the time it was working, you can tracert to each of the
    addresses in the list, one by one. Where it fails is the point where your
    route has problems. If all of them fail, then the problem is in your PC, if
    the tracert gets to the router, then the PC and the link to the router is
    ok..and so on. We can help with this.

    ok?










    "MaryL" <-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "eric the seal" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    > >
    > > Do make sure all sockets in use have
    > > good quality micro-filters.
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    > I'm piggybacking here, but can you explain what you mean by sockets with
    > micro-filters? I have a cable connection and use both a Toshiba cable

    modem
    > and a Netgear router with firewall. I have used this setup for a couple

    of
    > years, and it usually works well. However, I will occasionally find that

    I
    > cannot access newsgroups ("server cannot be found"), and the only

    workaround
    > is to turn everything off, disconnect by unplugging everything, wait a
    > couple of minutes, then go through a process of plugging things in and
    > starting up one by one. This is only a minor annoyance, but I have never
    > been able to determine the cause. My ISP (Cox) blames the router and
    > informs me that they do not support routers; tech support at Netgear

    blames
    > the ISP.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > MaryL
    >
    >
    eric the seal, Feb 29, 2004
    #9
  10. Mick Cant

    MaryL Guest

    "eric the seal" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Your problem can be broken down a bit more, in order to pinpoint what is
    > causing it.
    > "Server not found" could be caused either by there not being a route from
    > your computer to the server or by the lookup process which converts the

    name
    > of the server into its network address.
    >
    >
    >


    Thanks very much for the offer of help and detailed information. I am going
    to follow through with the information you provided. Incidentally, I failed
    to include some information myself that may be of use to you. That is, when
    this happens I usually lose access to newsgroups (and get the "server not
    found") message, but I usually still *can* use email (Eudora) and the
    Internet.

    Thanks again,
    MaryL
    MaryL, Feb 29, 2004
    #10
  11. Mick Cant

    Mick Cant Guest

    "Alien Zord" <> wrote in message
    news:c1sief$1ltqqk$-berlin.de...
    > "Mick Cant" <mickcant(no spam)@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hi thanks for replying,
    > > No, I have not had an e-mail from the ISP, but they said they had sent

    one
    > > saying the line was actavated when I saw they were debiting
    > > my bank account, and I phoned them to query it!
    > > that is why I wonderd if I could check with BT myself if that was so!
    > > the problem with phoning, their help desk is they cannot just tell me

    "if"
    > > the line has been tested!
    > > but would they have sent me the modem if the line had not passed any

    test?
    > >
    > >

    > They should not have entered into a contract with you until they had a
    > confirmation from BT of your line's suitability for conversion. You can

    only
    > ask your ISP for checks to be carried out (who will in turn ask BT) but

    you
    > cannot ask BT directly.
    >
    > A note aside: Your D-link ADSL USB modem is rather old one and is based on
    > the same chipset as the infamous Alcatel frog which was known for its
    > incompatibility with many USB controllers mostly VIA based.
    > Is the ADSL link light on it steady or is it flashing?
    > Is the USB light (power) steady after boot-up?


    Again thanks,
    when first connected, the power light was steady and the ASDL link, flashing
    and on the first dial up, an error came up, could not connect!

    while on the ISP helpline phone they got me to uninstall it, from the
    programme itself
    then reinstall the software, but anouther error came up that the modem was
    not reconised
    and no lights displayed!
    if the line has not been enabled for ASDL, could that harm the modem?

    the phone and internal normal modem, will work ok without having any filter
    fitted
    could this show that the line has not been enabled?
    thanks again,
    Mick cant.
    Mick Cant, Feb 29, 2004
    #11
  12. Mick Cant

    Dan Shea Guest

    On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 06:36:59 -0600, "MaryL"
    <-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:

    <snip>
    >Thanks very much for the offer of help and detailed information. I am going
    >to follow through with the information you provided. Incidentally, I failed
    >to include some information myself that may be of use to you. That is, when
    >this happens I usually lose access to newsgroups (and get the "server not
    >found") message, but I usually still *can* use email (Eudora) and the
    >Internet.
    >
    >Thanks again,
    >MaryL


    That sounds like you don't have a problem with either your cable modem
    OR your router. If you still have internet access, both of those
    devices are working. I'm tempted to say the problem is at your ISP,
    possibly a flaky news server.

    When this happens, try to ping the IP address of the news server. See
    if you get any response. Also try to ping it by name and see if it
    resolves correctly.

    Cheers,
    dan
    Dan Shea, Feb 29, 2004
    #12
  13. Mick Cant

    Alien Zord Guest

    "Mick Cant" <mickcant(no spam)@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:...
    > when first connected, the power light was steady and the ASDL link,

    flashing
    > and on the first dial up, an error came up, could not connect!
    >
    > while on the ISP helpline phone they got me to uninstall it, from the
    > programme itself
    > then reinstall the software, but anouther error came up that the modem was
    > not reconised
    > and no lights displayed!
    > if the line has not been enabled for ASDL, could that harm the modem?
    >
    > the phone and internal normal modem, will work ok without having any

    filter
    > fitted
    > could this show that the line has not been enabled?
    > thanks again,
    > Mick cant.
    >
    >

    The ADSL light has to go steady before the modem can connect to your ISP. It
    means that the modem has synchronised with the equipment at the exchange.

    A lack of ADSL signal on the line will not do any harm to the modem, it just
    will not be able to synchronise.

    Try disconnecting all the phones in your house and only leave the ADSL modem
    connected. The ADSL light on it must go steady before you can connect. If it
    does not go steady at all then report it to your ISP because that would
    indicate a fault on the line or line not activated.
    Alien Zord, Feb 29, 2004
    #13
  14. Mick Cant

    MaryL Guest

    "Dan Shea" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 06:36:59 -0600, "MaryL"
    > <-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    > >Thanks very much for the offer of help and detailed information. I am

    going
    > >to follow through with the information you provided. Incidentally, I

    failed
    > >to include some information myself that may be of use to you. That is,

    when
    > >this happens I usually lose access to newsgroups (and get the "server not
    > >found") message, but I usually still *can* use email (Eudora) and the
    > >Internet.
    > >
    > >Thanks again,
    > >MaryL

    >
    > That sounds like you don't have a problem with either your cable modem
    > OR your router. If you still have internet access, both of those
    > devices are working. I'm tempted to say the problem is at your ISP,
    > possibly a flaky news server.
    >
    > When this happens, try to ping the IP address of the news server. See
    > if you get any response. Also try to ping it by name and see if it
    > resolves correctly.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > dan
    >


    Thanks, I'll try that the next time I lose the ability access newsgroups.
    It happens erratically, so I never know *when* that will be. However, what
    you said about the *cause* fits pretty well with what the tech from Netgear
    said but that my ISP denied (not too surprising, I guess).

    MaryL
    MaryL, Feb 29, 2004
    #14
  15. Mick Cant

    Dan Shea Guest

    On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:28:09 -0600, "MaryL"
    <-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:

    >
    >"Dan Shea" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 06:36:59 -0600, "MaryL"
    >> <-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
    >>
    >> <snip>
    >> >Thanks very much for the offer of help and detailed information. I am

    >going
    >> >to follow through with the information you provided. Incidentally, I

    >failed
    >> >to include some information myself that may be of use to you. That is,

    >when
    >> >this happens I usually lose access to newsgroups (and get the "server not
    >> >found") message, but I usually still *can* use email (Eudora) and the
    >> >Internet.
    >> >
    >> >Thanks again,
    >> >MaryL

    >>
    >> That sounds like you don't have a problem with either your cable modem
    >> OR your router. If you still have internet access, both of those
    >> devices are working. I'm tempted to say the problem is at your ISP,
    >> possibly a flaky news server.
    >>
    >> When this happens, try to ping the IP address of the news server. See
    >> if you get any response. Also try to ping it by name and see if it
    >> resolves correctly.
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >> dan
    >>

    >
    >Thanks, I'll try that the next time I lose the ability access newsgroups.
    >It happens erratically, so I never know *when* that will be. However, what
    >you said about the *cause* fits pretty well with what the tech from Netgear
    >said but that my ISP denied (not too surprising, I guess).


    You're welcome.

    A bit of ammo, if you want to pursue this further with your ISP:

    Problem shouldn't be your router. Your router doesn't care what kind
    of traffic it's routing; it just cares about the destination
    addresses. NNTP is just another transport protocol like HTTP, FTP, and
    all the other *TPs. If those other types of connections are all
    working, there's no reason NNTP would fail to work. Whether it's
    NNTP or some other protocol makes no difference. (In addition to
    simply *routing*, your router may provide some type of firewalling or
    port forwarding that could mess with NNTP traffic, but I don't think
    that's the case here. Certainly not if it's only intermittent.)

    Problem shouldn't be your cable modem. Your cable modem works at an
    even lower level, and wouldn't specifically mess with NNTP traffic
    only. If your modem was bunged, more likely you wouldn't get ANYTHING
    happening with the internet.

    Problem *might* be at your computer. :) If it can be solved without
    a reboot, though, probably not.

    Cheers,
    dan
    Dan Shea, Feb 29, 2004
    #15
  16. Mick Cant

    Mick Cant Guest

    "Alien Zord" <> wrote in message
    news:c1t6gn$1mq815$-berlin.de...
    > The ADSL light has to go steady before the modem can connect to your ISP.

    It
    > means that the modem has synchronised with the equipment at the exchange.
    >
    > A lack of ADSL signal on the line will not do any harm to the modem, it

    just
    > will not be able to synchronise.
    >
    > Try disconnecting all the phones in your house and only leave the ADSL

    modem
    > connected. The ADSL light on it must go steady before you can connect. If

    it
    > does not go steady at all then report it to your ISP because that would
    > indicate a fault on the line or line not activated


    Thanks "Alien", I am in a flat and only have the one phone connected with a
    dial up modem,
    and yes I have disconnected all but the "ASDL" lead!
    after anouther round of installing and reinstalling with the help desc
    thisafternoon they have now concluded the modem is fulty!

    I am going to get a non USB modem.
    Thanks to all for your quick help.
    Mick Cant.
    Mick Cant, Feb 29, 2004
    #16
  17. Mick Cant

    TehGhodTrole Guest

    eric the seal wrote:

    > (Why bother? So
    > you can test the security of your broadband by trying to break into
    > it...and other reasons)


    BWAAGAHGAHGAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!


    --
    TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
    Your Free Insult: Jesus loves you.
    TehGhodTrole, Mar 1, 2004
    #17
  18. <<snip>>
    >
    > BWAAGAHGAHGAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!
    >
    >
    > --
    > TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
    > Your Free Insult: Jesus loves you.


    When you are older, your mummy will tell you that children should be seen
    rarely and heard never.
    eric the seal, Mar 1, 2004
    #18
    1. Advertising

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