Telecom - true to form

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by EMB, Nov 11, 2005.

  1. EMB

    EMB Guest

    EMB, Nov 11, 2005
    #1
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  2. On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:39:46 +1300, someone purporting to be EMB didst
    scrawl:

    > Absolutely typical. Telecom have gone to the High Court to overturn the
    > ruling that they have to open up ADSL access at full rates and a set
    > price. And they've left it late enough so the whole process is likely
    > to get bogged down in the Xmas break too.
    >
    > http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&ObjectID=10354868


    Good on them, I say. The more they do this, the easier it gets for Cabinet
    to justify laying the smack down.
    Also, by doing this they're removing the last shred of hope that they
    would meet the 1/3 wholesale target. Their only chance was that Testicular
    would rake in a couple of truckloads of customers just before the end of
    the year, once the new, fast plans were available, and that would tip them
    over the 83k mark. Not a shit-show of that now.

    Bravo, Telescum, keep up the good work.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Nov 11, 2005
    #2
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  3. EMB

    steve Guest

    EMB wrote:

    > Absolutely typical. Telecom have gone to the High Court to overturn the
    > ruling that they have to open up ADSL access at full rates and a set
    > price. And they've left it late enough so the whole process is likely
    > to get bogged down in the Xmas break too.
    >
    > http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&ObjectID=10354868


    Delay, delay, delay, litigate, obfuscate, delay, delay, delay.

    Should be Telecom's corporate motto.
     
    steve, Nov 11, 2005
    #3
  4. On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:38:52 +1300, Matthew Poole wrote:

    > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:39:46 +1300, someone purporting to be EMB didst
    > scrawl:
    >
    >> Absolutely typical. Telecom have gone to the High Court to overturn the
    >> ruling that they have to open up ADSL access at full rates and a set
    >> price. And they've left it late enough so the whole process is likely
    >> to get bogged down in the Xmas break too.
    >>
    >> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&ObjectID=10354868

    >
    > Good on them, I say. The more they do this, the easier it gets for Cabinet
    > to justify laying the smack down.
    > Also, by doing this they're removing the last shred of hope that they
    > would meet the 1/3 wholesale target. Their only chance was that Testicular
    > would rake in a couple of truckloads of customers just before the end of
    > the year, once the new, fast plans were available, and that would tip them
    > over the 83k mark. Not a shit-show of that now.
    >
    > Bravo, Telescum, keep up the good work.


    Of course we all know why it was that Telecon/Xtra and Micro$oft/MSN so
    easily jumped into bed together... they both have the same business ethic.

    i.e. screw your clients as hard as you can for as long as you can, and
    then screw them again, and again and again and again.


    Undeniably Sluttish

    --
    "Microsoft doesn't need any moral right to be a hypocrite. It's an
    oxymoron. It will do what it can get away with. Of course this makes
    it difficult for its advocates to occupy any high moral ground."
     
    Mr Undeniably Sluttish, Nov 11, 2005
    #4
  5. EMB

    Andrew Guest

    Mr Undeniably Sluttish wrote:
    > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:38:52 +1300, Matthew Poole wrote:
    >
    >> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:39:46 +1300, someone purporting to be EMB didst
    >> scrawl:
    >>
    >>> Absolutely typical. Telecom have gone to the High Court to overturn the
    >>> ruling that they have to open up ADSL access at full rates and a set
    >>> price. And they've left it late enough so the whole process is likely
    >>> to get bogged down in the Xmas break too.
    >>>
    >>> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&ObjectID=10354868

    >> Good on them, I say. The more they do this, the easier it gets for Cabinet
    >> to justify laying the smack down.
    >> Also, by doing this they're removing the last shred of hope that they
    >> would meet the 1/3 wholesale target. Their only chance was that Testicular
    >> would rake in a couple of truckloads of customers just before the end of
    >> the year, once the new, fast plans were available, and that would tip them
    >> over the 83k mark. Not a shit-show of that now.
    >>
    >> Bravo, Telescum, keep up the good work.

    >
    > Of course we all know why it was that Telecon/Xtra and Micro$oft/MSN so
    > easily jumped into bed together... they both have the same business ethic.
    >
    > i.e. screw your clients as hard as you can for as long as you can, and
    > then screw them again, and again and again and again.
    >
    >
    > Undeniably Sluttish
    >


    - but make it look good for the un suspecting
     
    Andrew, Nov 11, 2005
    #5
  6. On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 11:42:26 +1300, steve wrote:

    > Delay, delay, delay, litigate, obfuscate, delay, delay, delay.
    >
    > Should be Telecom's corporate motto.


    Along with "Innovators of Telecommunications Technology" (not!)

    When was the last time Telecom/Xtra genuinely produced a completely new
    product?


    Undeniably Sluttish

    --
    Fink: "The Linux market is growing 30% to 35% a year."
     
    Mr Undeniably Sluttish, Nov 11, 2005
    #6
  7. On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 11:57:21 +1300, Andrew wrote:

    >> Of course we all know why it was that Telecon/Xtra and Micro$oft/MSN so
    >> easily jumped into bed together... they both have the same business ethic.
    >>
    >> i.e. screw your clients as hard as you can for as long as you can, and
    >> then screw them again, and again and again and again.
    >>
    >>
    >> Undeniably Sluttish
    >>

    >
    > - but make it look good for the un suspecting


    So... how would one make the business equivalent of a broom handle look
    good for the unsuspecting?


    Undeniably Sluttish

    --
    The Queen's Mother: "Well I don't know what all you queens are doing,
    but this old Queen wants a drink."
     
    Mr Undeniably Sluttish, Nov 11, 2005
    #7
  8. EMB

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Mr Undeniably Sluttish wrote:
    > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 11:57:21 +1300, Andrew wrote:
    >
    >>> Of course we all know why it was that Telecon/Xtra and
    >>> Micro$oft/MSN so easily jumped into bed together... they both have
    >>> the same business ethic.
    >>>
    >>> i.e. screw your clients as hard as you can for as long as you can,
    >>> and then screw them again, and again and again and again.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Undeniably Sluttish
    >>>

    >>
    >> - but make it look good for the un suspecting

    >
    > So... how would one make the business equivalent of a broom handle
    > look good for the unsuspecting?


    Tie a ribbon around it, include a freebie or two and tell them the first
    month's free? It's not until later they realise they're stuck with it
    (literally) for a year unless they pay through the nose.
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Nov 12, 2005
    #8
  9. EMB

    thingy Guest

    Mr Undeniably Sluttish wrote:
    > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 11:42:26 +1300, steve wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Delay, delay, delay, litigate, obfuscate, delay, delay, delay.
    >>
    >>Should be Telecom's corporate motto.

    >
    >
    > Along with "Innovators of Telecommunications Technology" (not!)
    >
    > When was the last time Telecom/Xtra genuinely produced a completely new
    > product?
    >
    >
    > Undeniably Sluttish
    >


    Telecom is in a race against time to re-invent itself as an IT
    company.....6 months...1 year the delay means a lot to them, both in
    immediate revenue stream and in re-organising.....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Nov 12, 2005
    #9
  10. EMB

    Guest

    Matthew Poole wrote:
    > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:39:46 +1300, someone purporting to be EMB didst
    > scrawl:
    >
    > > Absolutely typical. Telecom have gone to the High Court to overturn the
    > > ruling that they have to open up ADSL access at full rates and a set
    > > price. And they've left it late enough so the whole process is likely
    > > to get bogged down in the Xmas break too.
    > >
    > > http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&ObjectID=10354868

    >
    > Good on them, I say. The more they do this, the easier it gets for Cabinet
    > to justify laying the smack down.
    > Also, by doing this they're removing the last shred of hope that they
    > would meet the 1/3 wholesale target. Their only chance was that Testicular
    > would rake in a couple of truckloads of customers just before the end of
    > the year, once the new, fast plans were available, and that would tip them
    > over the 83k mark. Not a shit-show of that now.
    >
    > Bravo, Telescum, keep up the good work.


    Actually Telescum was already screwed. TC/Testicular made it clear
    there was no way they would be able to offer their plans before the end
    of the year because they still had to set up their systems so even if
    Telescum has put Rex and Moly on the job, it wouldn't have been done.
    Besides, even if by some mircle they did pull it off, it's virtually
    impossible IMHO they would have succeeded. Say TC launched at the end
    of November. Given that Telescum is stll half short of the target, I
    believe I worked out even double growth would not help. There was no
    way TC was ever going to get enough to make up for the short fall. The
    only way they could have succeed is if they pulled a shitload of
    customers off of Telescum. But this seems unlikely. Nearly every single
    ISP currently offers UBS plans that beat Telecom's Xtra plans in cost
    per equivalent or better connection (except for the crappy ISPs perhaps
    who doesn't really offer any equivalent connection coz they're too
    crap). Any customers who are still with Telecom are there for one of
    two reasons. Either they're stupid or they need the upstream. But
    Telecom has downgraded all those old people who has 192k to 128k. So
    the only higher upstream plans are the JetStream full plans. But given
    the price of JetStream full, the only people who are getting JetStream
    full must be very very rich. There aren't that many of these around.
    Furthermore, as far as we know, TC is still going to be limited to 128k
    with their regulated UBS. So the people who remain with Telecom aren't
    likely to suddenly all jump ship to TelstraClear. Perhaps if/when TC
    begins to offer they will jump ship faster then they are now but there
    is no way they would have ever jumped ship fast enough to help Telecom
    reach the goal.

    It also seems unlikely the higher downstream will be that much of a
    draw. It's more likely to draw those heavy users who are already using
    UBS. It may draw a few of Telecom's customers and some new users but
    most likely not that many. Heck I wonder how many people even have
    lines that can get much more then 2mbit/s! Although a big fuss has been
    made about the decision to allow TC to use the maximum the line can
    support, I don't feel this was actually that significant. The lack of
    any change to the upstream makes it even more moot IMHO. The much more
    serious implications of the UBS regulation decision were the lowered
    prices etc. These are what's going to really make the difference. That
    and the fact that TC have a lot of muscle then all the other ISPs
    combined to ensure they can really compete if they want to.

    P.S. Remember we're only talking about residential connections when it
    comes to the 83k, businesses don't count.
     
    , Nov 13, 2005
    #10
  11. EMB

    Guest

    To be fair, this isn't just typical of Telecom NZ. Most large
    telecommunications conglomerates can be just as bad. I think Telecom
    are screwing themselves personally but the government and the CC are
    the main ones at fault. They should have unbundled long ago. If they
    really wanted to experiment with UBS rather then the tried and true
    LLU, they should have done that even longer ago. Perhaps 2000 they
    should have already asked them to do UBS and when that failed, by 2002
    at the very latest they should have made a decision for LLU. Instead
    they took until end 2004 to UBS.

    They're hopefully going to do LLU after Telecom major fails at the end
    of this year this but we can expect it to be late 2006 before the
    government has made the necessary laws for LLU, since it'll be mid 2006
    before the CC makes a decision I suspect. Then we'll spend another 6
    months - 1 year while this is all in the courts. Then Telecom will say
    they're going to do it and will take another 6 months to come up with
    their plans which will not please anyone so again it'll go back to the
    CC for a properly regulated LLU (as with the regulated UBS we're
    talking about earlier) which will take another 6 months before they
    reach a decision then another 6 months before we actually start to see
    LLU. At the time up, we can expect to really have LLU mid 2008 at the
    earliest IMHO but more likely 2009-2010. By that time, the rest of the
    world will be using 10mbit/s while we'll probably be stuck with DSL
    with downstream at whatever the line can reach and upstream probably
    still 128k unelss we're lucky we might have 192k. Not to mention the
    25gb data cap (although Ihug looks like they're going to finally change
    things)
     
    , Nov 13, 2005
    #11
  12. On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 05:14:22 -0800, someone purporting to be nil_einne1
    didst scrawl:

    > To be fair, this isn't just typical of Telecom NZ. Most large
    > telecommunications conglomerates can be just as bad. I think Telecom
    > are screwing themselves personally but the government and the CC are
    > the main ones at fault. They should have unbundled long ago. If they
    > really wanted to experiment with UBS rather then the tried and true
    > LLU, they should have done that even longer ago. Perhaps 2000 they
    > should have already asked them to do UBS and when that failed, by 2002
    > at the very latest they should have made a decision for LLU. Instead
    > they took until end 2004 to UBS.
    >

    The Cabinet rejected Swain's proposal to unbundle when he presented it
    last year (last year? 2003?). We just have to pray that they don't do the
    same when Cunliffe recommends drastic measures.

    > They're hopefully going to do LLU after Telecom major fails at the end
    > of this year this but we can expect it to be late 2006 before the
    > government has made the necessary laws for LLU, since it'll be mid 2006
    > before the CC makes a decision I suspect. Then we'll spend another 6

    *SNIP*
    > LLU. At the time up, we can expect to really have LLU mid 2008 at the
    > earliest IMHO but more likely 2009-2010. By that time, the rest of the

    *SNIP*

    That's the problem with LLU. It takes years to be implemented.
    The best solution, and one which could be done within a few months
    provided the courts expedited the appeals, is structural separation. Spin
    off wholesale and retail in the separate companies - tolls and Xtra to one
    side, lines and data to the other. Put in Government auditors to ensure
    that there is a total end to the special relationships currently in place,
    and it's all over bar the shouting.
    LLU is messy, particularly when you've got a vocal opposition who will
    scream and wail about private property rights. Better to keep it all
    private, but make sure that there's a strong incentive for the wholesale
    company to play nice, such as draconian penalties if they price higher
    than the cheapest 1/3 of the OECD for a similar product. The retail side
    have plenty of competition already.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Nov 13, 2005
    #12
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