Telecom DSL re-connection fees!!(long story)

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by PseUDO, Sep 28, 2003.

  1. PseUDO

    PseUDO Guest

    Anyone else come across this situation- having paided the $99 dsl connection fee a few years back for getting the service connected,
    then we recently shifted to a new address, so rang telecom to let them know that we wish to have the telephone service and dsl
    service stopped at 3pm on a Friday afternoon and reconnected at the new address at round about the same time.

    Telecom informs us on the phone that disconnecting and reconnecting the phone service will be $45 , ok fair enough, but the big
    shock was that to have the dsl service disconnected and reconnected we would again have to pay $99.

    After telling them we had already paided once we then then got to talk to a supervisor who told us that he could waive the $99 fee,
    if we were to cancel our dsl connection and then re-apply as a new customer when they have a special fee install deal going at some
    unknown time in the future.

    So what he was saying is that telecom was prepared to lose us as a dsl customer on the off chance that sometime in the future we
    would reconnect when ther was a free install deal going.

    Which basically means that they were happy to let new customers be connected for free, where as existing customers had to pay
    twice!!.

    And on top of that the tech guy still had to go to the exchange to disconnect our old line from the dsl equipment at the exchange,
    even if we didn't want it at our new address.

    After spending half and hour on the phone talking to the supervisor who also went away to ask somebody even higher up as to why
    existing customers had to pay to have a dsl service reconnected while new customers didn't even have to pay for their install, he
    came back and said it's either $99 or nothing, in the end we had no choice but to pay it, or go back to dial-up !!.

    We were told that if we had any objections to the fee, we would need to put it in writing.

    I cant wait for some competition !.

    PseUDO
    PseUDO, Sep 28, 2003
    #1
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  2. PseUDO

    samg Guest

    "PseUDO" <> wrote in
    news:m1Idb.4319$:

    >
    > We were told that if we had any objections to the fee, we would need
    > to put it in writing.
    >


    thats pathetic, good ole telecom.
    samg, Sep 28, 2003
    #2
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  3. On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:04:15 +1200, "PseUDO" <>
    wrote:

    >Telecom informs us on the phone that disconnecting and reconnecting the phone service will be $45 , ok fair enough, but the big
    >shock was that to have the dsl service disconnected and reconnected we would again have to pay $99.
    >
    >After telling them we had already paided once we then then got to talk to a supervisor who told us that he could waive the $99 fee,
    >if we were to cancel our dsl connection and then re-apply as a new customer when they have a special fee install deal going at some
    >unknown time in the future.
    >
    >So what he was saying is that telecom was prepared to lose us as a dsl customer on the off chance that sometime in the future we
    >would reconnect when ther was a free install deal going.


    That's nothing -- I *was* an Xtra customer (using dial-up) and when I
    shifted house to an area that offered DSL I signed up for a JetStream
    Starter account, keeping Xtra as my ISP.'

    Rather than pay the full-whack (about $250) to have a tech come and
    install some filters, I bought my own which meant I should have only
    paid $99.

    Imagine my surprise when they sent me a bill for $250 for the
    connectino *AND* $27.95 for the Xtra new-customer setup fee.

    It took a couple of phone calls and much bitching for them to credit
    the excess charges -- but I'm wondering if there's not a lucrative
    little racket associated with overcharging people and seeing whether
    they notice or not.

    Note that I said I *was* an Xtra customer -- bad service warrants lost
    customers.

    --
    you can contact me via http://aardvark.co.nz/contact/
    Bruce Simpson, Sep 29, 2003
    #3
  4. PseUDO

    Jake Collins Guest

    Same story here when we shifted. I told Telecom to stick their reconnection
    fee and went to Telstra.
    Jake Collins, Sep 29, 2003
    #4
  5. PseUDO

    Nic Guest

    On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:26:05 +1200, Bruce Simpson wrote: [snip]
    > That's nothing -- I *was* an Xtra customer (using dial-up) and when I
    > shifted house to an area that offered DSL I signed up for a JetStream
    > Starter account, keeping Xtra as my ISP.'
    >
    > Rather than pay the full-whack (about $250) to have a tech come and
    > install some filters, I bought my own which meant I should have only
    > paid $99.
    >
    > Imagine my surprise when they sent me a bill for $250 for the connectino
    > *AND* $27.95 for the Xtra new-customer setup fee.
    >
    > It took a couple of phone calls and much bitching for them to credit the
    > excess charges -- but I'm wondering if there's not a lucrative little
    > racket associated with overcharging people and seeing whether they
    > notice or not.


    Oh yeah, there is, in every place possible. You'll notice billing errors
    are never[1] in *your* favor.

    We had dialup until ADSL became availble on our exchange. At that point,
    we kitted ourselves out with requisite filters, modem etc. and switched.

    That they never turned off the flatrate dialup plan got lost for the
    better part of twelve months in the noise floor of our generally large
    bills.

    Well, whoops, accidents happen. But when we discovered it and raised it
    with them, they said: "the account has been heavily used during that time"
    (interesting; I didn't know ISA modems could work when they're not plugged
    into the phone line... or computer. If the password escaped, it was from
    their systems, not mine).

    They then said "if you want a refund, you're going to have to file a
    police complaint". This without providing any proof whatsoever that it had
    been used - no "has been called X times by number X-XXX-XXXX", not even a
    confirm/deny for my asking "are the calls from my XXX or YYY or ZZZ
    numbers?".

    Essentially, they wanted me to go to the police and make a statement I did
    not know to be true. Who the *hell* in their right mind would sign their
    name to something on the basis of what Xtra/Telecom told them? (rhetorical
    question: answer = all the in-duh-viduals out there)

    You've seen their technical advice - now trust their legal advice? Yeah
    Right(tm).

    Eventually (ie. it took months) we got a refund out of them, after working
    our way up the food chain and explaining at each point that whether it had
    been used or not, *we had cancelled it* - *they had screwed up*

    As far as it goes, I could have earned a lot more money consulting instead
    of chasing them, but it was the principle of it.

    Nic.
    fxl.ng.jvooyr.qbg.arg

    [1] Well, close enough to never to count as never. Kind of like those TV
    rating machines - I can't even say I know a guy who's friend saw a dog
    whos vets sister in laws brother had one.
    Nic, Sep 29, 2003
    #5
  6. PseUDO

    tim Guest

    it's not so much a reconnection fee as a new connection fee eh

    ie getting a filter installed on your new line at the exchange? what does
    that have to do with having it installed on your own line?

    would'nt that be nice to just pay once and keep moving around and they put
    new filters on your line everytime :)

    hmm, dunno. am i missing something, i mean i hate telecom as much (actually
    more) than the next guy but in this instance I'd have to side with telecom.


    "Jake Collins" <> wrote in message
    news:0rRdb.4467$...
    > Same story here when we shifted. I told Telecom to stick their

    reconnection
    > fee and went to Telstra.
    >
    >
    tim, Sep 29, 2003
    #6
  7. PseUDO

    PseUDO Guest

    "tim" <> wrote in message news:utSdb.4483$...
    > it's not so much a reconnection fee as a new connection fee eh
    >
    > ie getting a filter installed on your new line at the exchange? what does
    > that have to do with having it installed on your own line?
    >
    > would'nt that be nice to just pay once and keep moving around and they put
    > new filters on your line everytime :)
    >
    > hmm, dunno. am i missing something, i mean i hate telecom as much (actually
    > more) than the next guy but in this instance I'd have to side with telecom.


    Yeah i can see what your saying, but i dont see it as a new connection fee, when im already a customer, and the fact that they even
    stated that i could join up later on sometime in the future for free, beats me !.,


    The thing thats the most crazy about it all is that even if i had said no dont re-connect it, the technician would still have to go
    to the exchange and dis-connect my old line from the dsl equipment and connect our new phone line anyway, so where does another $99
    come in to the picture when he still has to visit the exchange either way !!.

    no telstra here yet...

    PseUDO
    PseUDO, Sep 29, 2003
    #7
  8. PseUDO

    tim Guest

    i doubt they would take the filter off your line, more likely they would
    just flip the switch off for your line...

    hence new filter. and besides the technician needs to (re)install the filter
    on your new line still


    "PseUDO" <> wrote in message
    news:ZTSdb.4488$...
    >
    > "tim" <> wrote in message

    news:utSdb.4483$...
    > > it's not so much a reconnection fee as a new connection fee eh
    > >
    > > ie getting a filter installed on your new line at the exchange? what

    does
    > > that have to do with having it installed on your own line?
    > >
    > > would'nt that be nice to just pay once and keep moving around and they

    put
    > > new filters on your line everytime :)
    > >
    > > hmm, dunno. am i missing something, i mean i hate telecom as much

    (actually
    > > more) than the next guy but in this instance I'd have to side with

    telecom.
    >
    > Yeah i can see what your saying, but i dont see it as a new connection

    fee, when im already a customer, and the fact that they even
    > stated that i could join up later on sometime in the future for free,

    beats me !.,
    >
    >
    > The thing thats the most crazy about it all is that even if i had said no

    dont re-connect it, the technician would still have to go
    > to the exchange and dis-connect my old line from the dsl equipment and

    connect our new phone line anyway, so where does another $99
    > come in to the picture when he still has to visit the exchange either way

    !!.
    >
    > no telstra here yet...
    >
    > PseUDO
    >
    >
    tim, Sep 29, 2003
    #8
  9. PseUDO

    tim Guest

    > Yeah i can see what your saying, but i dont see it as a new connection
    fee, when im already a customer, and the fact that they even
    > stated that i could join up later on sometime in the future for free,

    beats me !.,

    yeah and sky TV said i could change the box for free if I was not happy but
    then I got stung for a service callout. grr...
    tim, Sep 29, 2003
    #9
  10. PseUDO

    bt Guest

    On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:04:15 +1200, "PseUDO" <>
    wrote:

    >Telecom informs us on the phone that disconnecting and reconnecting the phone service will be $45 , ok fair enough, but the big
    >shock was that to have the dsl service disconnected and reconnected we would again have to pay $99.


    Yes, had that problem several times already. Bastards.

    Like I say: Telecom is NOT a business, it is a Racket.


    Brendan (Avatar)

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    bt, Sep 29, 2003
    #10
  11. PseUDO

    reetix Guest

    "PseUDO" <> wrote in message
    news:m1Idb.4319$...
    > Anyone else come across this situation- having paided the $99 dsl

    connection fee a few years back for getting the service connected,
    > then we recently shifted to a new address, so rang telecom to let them

    know that we wish to have the telephone service and dsl
    > service stopped at 3pm on a Friday afternoon and reconnected at the new

    address at round about the same time.
    >
    > Telecom informs us on the phone that disconnecting and reconnecting the

    phone service will be $45 , ok fair enough, but the big
    > shock was that to have the dsl service disconnected and reconnected we

    would again have to pay $99.

    Apparantly (according to british telecom anyway) when you move house, a
    telco engineer has to go to your new exchange and physically plug in a cable
    to enable your adsl at your new address, thus incurring this fee. It's the
    same in the UK.
    reetix, Sep 29, 2003
    #11
  12. On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:21:45 +0100, "reetix" <reetix@127.0.0.1> wrote:

    >
    >Apparantly (according to british telecom anyway) when you move house, a
    >telco engineer has to go to your new exchange and physically plug in a cable
    >to enable your adsl at your new address, thus incurring this fee. It's the
    >same in the UK.


    Hell, if that's all that's involved I'll gladly do the plugging for
    just $89 -- saving everyone $10 :)

    --
    you can contact me via http://aardvark.co.nz/contact/
    Bruce Simpson, Sep 30, 2003
    #12
  13. PseUDO

    Brett Cooper Guest

    On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:21:45 +0100, "reetix" <reetix@127.0.0.1> wrote:
    >Apparantly (according to british telecom anyway) when you move house, a
    >telco engineer has to go to your new exchange and physically plug in a cable
    >to enable your adsl at your new address, thus incurring this fee. It's the
    >same in the UK.


    I guess telecom are charging you for disconnection as well as connection
    when you pay the setup fee. I don't think telecom would be disconnecting
    you for free or do anything for free. Oh and 'go black' (not a UN
    reference) [Sorry for this humor - it was a silly thing to say - i guess
    that's why I did it] {If I could go black and delete it, I would} <sorry to
    all who where offended>
    Brett Cooper, Sep 30, 2003
    #13
  14. PseUDO

    bt Guest

    On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:56:52 +1200, "tim" <>
    wrote:

    >hmm, dunno. am i missing something,


    Yes, you are:

    1. the filters plug into your wall socket. E.g. you take them with you
    when you move.

    2. Telecom only has to type a few commands into their computer at the
    exchange. E.g. I doubt anyone with a soldering iron or screw driver is
    involved.


    Brendan (Avatar)

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    bt, Sep 30, 2003
    #14
  15. > Yes, you are:
    >
    > 1. the filters plug into your wall socket. E.g. you take them with you
    > when you move.


    Only if you get the self install option, its not suitable for a lot of cases.

    > 2. Telecom only has to type a few commands into their computer at the
    > exchange. E.g. I doubt anyone with a soldering iron or screw driver is
    > involved.


    The line has to be re-jumpered to go thru the dslam equipment, this involves
    some work at the exchange.
    Richard Malcolm-Smith, Sep 30, 2003
    #15
  16. PseUDO

    tim Guest

    > Yes, you are:

    no

    > 2. Telecom only has to type a few commands into their computer at the
    > exchange. E.g. I doubt anyone with a soldering iron or screw driver is
    > involved.


    exactly, assuming of course that the filter is already on your line at the
    exchange, hell you don't even need to talk to Telecom if that is the case,
    you just deal with your ISP.

    But if your line has not had a filter installed then it reasonable to expect
    the customer to pay at least some of that cost...
    tim, Sep 30, 2003
    #16
  17. On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:42:56 +1200, Brett Cooper wrote:

    > I guess telecom are charging you for disconnection as well as connection
    > when you pay the setup fee.


    Nope, no disconnection. The strategy is to leave idled connections
    attached to the DSLAM unless they run out of ports on it.

    There are a bunch of other strategies at work, which is why Jetstream is
    so nobbled at the moment. Let's just say (again) that the entire aim of
    DSL is not to provide Internet services.
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Sep 30, 2003
    #17
  18. PseUDO

    bt Guest

    On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:03:56 +1200, Richard Malcolm-Smith
    <> wrote:

    >> Yes, you are:
    >>
    >> 1. the filters plug into your wall socket. E.g. you take them with you
    >> when you move.

    >
    >Only if you get the self install option, its not suitable for a lot of cases.


    Which cases are those ?

    And I think 'a lot of cases' is very much wrong. A 'small minority' I
    might accept, but not 'a lot'.

    I think most people could just install a filer on their phone jack for
    the telephones. Sure, it cost about $30 to buy one, but it's a one off
    cost.

    So we come back to Telecom charging $100 to change a wire from 'A' to
    'B' and appending your accounting file. And even this could be
    computerised.

    But it's all acedemic: Telecom charge the $100 because they know they
    have stifled any competition.

    >> 2. Telecom only has to type a few commands into their computer at the
    >> exchange. E.g. I doubt anyone with a soldering iron or screw driver is
    >> involved.

    >
    >The line has to be re-jumpered to go thru the dslam equipment, this involves
    >some work at the exchange.


    Sounds like they could computerise that.

    I assumed they did - I guess I overestimated Telecom's desire to
    modernise.


    Brendan (Avatar)

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    bt, Sep 30, 2003
    #18
  19. PseUDO

    bt Guest

    On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:04:29 +1200, "tim" <>
    wrote:

    >> Yes, you are:

    >
    >no


    Yes.

    >> 2. Telecom only has to type a few commands into their computer at the
    >> exchange. E.g. I doubt anyone with a soldering iron or screw driver is
    >> involved.

    >
    >exactly, assuming of course that the filter is already on your line at the
    >exchange, hell you don't even need to talk to Telecom if that is the case,
    >you just deal with your ISP.


    It goes on your phone jack inside your house.

    You should only be charged if you need hand holding.

    It's not as if Telecom runs 'adsl' at a loss....

    >But if your line has not had a filter installed then it reasonable to expect
    >the customer to pay at least some of that cost...


    The customer can go into Dick Smiths or order a couple of filters from
    Telecon. They can then plug them into the wall themselves.

    If they cannot manage that I suggest they need a bed in a Hospice.


    Brendan (Avatar)

    --
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    Email: corum.usenet@myrealbox (dot com). No Timewasters. No UCE.
    My comments are IMHO, IIRC, FYI, and Copyright.
    bt, Sep 30, 2003
    #19
  20. bt wrote:

    >>Only if you get the self install option, its not suitable for a lot of cases.

    >
    > Which cases are those ?


    Alarm system, long way from the exchange, old 3 wire jackpoints installed in the
    house, 3 wire phones.

    > And I think 'a lot of cases' is very much wrong. A 'small minority' I
    > might accept, but not 'a lot'.


    Sounds like heaps to me. Other cases will largly work but have to drop the speed
    when the line is in use because the balancing is up the creek with the old 3
    wire system and most plug in filters only filtering one of the 2 legs, means
    that the ringer is sometimes not filtered.

    > I think most people could just install a filer on their phone jack for
    > the telephones. Sure, it cost about $30 to buy one, but it's a one off
    > cost.


    Per phone, and the sky box. Alarms wired to capture the phoneline will not be
    able to be filtered simply by plugging in.

    > So we come back to Telecom charging $100 to change a wire from 'A' to
    > 'B' and appending your accounting file. And even this could be
    > computerised.


    > But it's all acedemic: Telecom charge the $100 because they know they
    > have stifled any competition.


    Someone has to make the request for the contracter, they have to do some work at
    the exchange. Try to get any cabling contractor to go onsite somewhere for $100
    and do similar work.

    >>The line has to be re-jumpered to go thru the dslam equipment, this involves
    >>some work at the exchange.

    >
    > Sounds like they could computerise that.
    >
    > I assumed they did - I guess I overestimated Telecom's desire to
    > modernise.


    The cable has to be de-patched from the exchange, moved over to one side of the
    dslam equipment, another cable put back between the exchange and the dslam to
    carry the dialtone phone service, the line has to be tested and the job signed
    off, sure, if they have several to do at the same exchange at once then the $100
    is prob a bit over the top, but im sure there are cases where there costs are
    greater then the $99 they charge you.

    How can you computerise the relocation of cables?

    What I think is more interesting is that they can provision a 128k circuit
    nationwide for $30 to one set of customers, but to another set of customers to
    get essentially the same thing costs several times that.
    Richard Malcolm-Smith, Oct 1, 2003
    #20
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