Technical ignorance allows for some funny situations

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Jun 8, 2014.

  1. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 6/10/2014 8:43 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2014-06-11 00:24:40 +0000, PeterN <> said:
    >
    >> On 6/10/2014 6:51 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>> On 2014-06-10 19:39:51 +0000, PeterN <> said:
    >>>
    >>>> On 6/10/2014 2:12 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>
    >>> << Le Snip >>
    >>>
    >>>>> Homeopathy is all placebo. You might as well have a shaman dance
    >>>>> around
    >>>>> you while shaking a rattle.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Here is a thought provoking article on the efficacy of TCM.
    >>>>
    >>>> <http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/553037>
    >>>
    >>> That might be interesting to read if I didn't have to log in.
    >>>

    >>
    >> I didn't have to log in. I did a Google search on efficacy traditional
    >> Chinese, and I just clicked on the article.

    >
    > That's nice. However, what you posted is inaccessible, and I have 16
    > years of experience in college, pathology labs, and two pharmaceutical
    > companies, before I made a career change at age 39. I don't need to hear
    > an opinion on the efficacy of homeopathy. I have read plenty of studies
    > and there is only one conclusion, there is no other than placebo effect.
    >
    > I moved to law enforcement because my state agency was recruiting folks
    > with different academic skills and qualifications to those of the
    > typical academy recruit, and the potential income & benefits were far
    > better than I was able to squeeze out of those N.J pharmaceutical
    > companies. For me it was the right move. I didn't move to law
    > enforcement as a 21 year old.
    >
    > So, I don't need to take the time to Google mythology.
    >


    TCM has been shown to work well when used in connection with Western
    medicine. We could easily get into a discussion of why, and if I am able
    to travel, would enjoy a good discussion with you. My knowledge of
    medicine and drugs comes from the business end and working on regulatory
    matters. I had a lot of clients in the health care field. In order to
    represent them properly, I had to understand their business. When doing
    contract negotiations, it was essential to due sufficient due diligence,
    to ensure the other side was capable of compliance with the contract.
    Just as you were able to detect areas to pursue from twitching and body
    language, I was able to detect things that didn't make sense, often from
    subtle clues.

    Back to the topic of homeopathic medicine. I agree there is a lot of
    room for fraud in the unregulated space. And indeed much fraud is
    committed. That doesn't mean that none of it works. A placebo effect
    recovery is very much a cure. The mind can have an effect on the body
    that few of us really understand. Several years ago we went to a wedding
    where the brides father was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, and
    was not expected to live more than a few weeks. He wanted very much to
    be at his daughter's wedding, but insisted that they not change the
    wedding plans. (The wedding was about eight months after he was
    diagnosed.) Plans were made for him to watch the wedding from the
    hospice, if he was still alive. He appeared at the wedding, wearing his
    tux. His cancer had gone into almost a complete remission, which lasted
    until the day the newly weds returned from their honeymoon. Coincidence,
    maybe. I don't know the answer, and neither do his oncologist.


    PeterN
    PeterN, Jun 11, 2014
    #61
    1. Advertising

  2. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 6/10/2014 9:01 PM, nospam wrote:
    > In article <>, PeterN
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>>>>> Here is a thought provoking article on the efficacy of TCM.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> <http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/553037>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> That might be interesting to read if I didn't have to log in.
    >>>>
    >>>> I didn't have to log in. I did a Google search on efficacy traditional
    >>>> Chinese, and I just clicked on the article.
    >>>
    >>> web sites often let you get past the paywall if it's a google search
    >>> result.

    >>
    >> Funny I saw no request for payment, even with the link.

    >
    > paywall often means payment, but not always.
    >
    >> Simply
    >> registration. If you don;t know how to get around that, you're even more
    >> of a fool than you attitude here shows you to be.

    >
    > the only fool is you.
    >
    > i already explained one way to get around it.
    >
    > however, i have better things to do,


    And you prove it with the quantity of asinine postings.

    > not to mention that going through
    > a back door, as you suggest, is not good advice.


    You don't want to, because the facts would hurt your argument.
    Once more you have proven yourself.

    You bore me.

    >
    > if you can't be bothered to post a valid link then *you* are the fool.
    >



    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, Jun 11, 2014
    #62
    1. Advertising

  3. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    > Back to the topic of homeopathic medicine. I agree there is a lot of
    > room for fraud in the unregulated space. And indeed much fraud is
    > committed. That doesn't mean that none of it works. A placebo effect
    > recovery is very much a cure.


    nonsense. placebos don't cure anything.

    all they do is make the person believe they're taking a cure, which may
    have value in itself but that's about it.

    > The mind can have an effect on the body
    > that few of us really understand. Several years ago we went to a wedding
    > where the brides father was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, and
    > was not expected to live more than a few weeks. He wanted very much to
    > be at his daughter's wedding, but insisted that they not change the
    > wedding plans. (The wedding was about eight months after he was
    > diagnosed.) Plans were made for him to watch the wedding from the
    > hospice, if he was still alive. He appeared at the wedding, wearing his
    > tux. His cancer had gone into almost a complete remission, which lasted
    > until the day the newly weds returned from their honeymoon. Coincidence,
    > maybe. I don't know the answer, and neither do his oncologist.


    coincidence.
    nospam, Jun 11, 2014
    #63
  4. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, PeterN
    <> wrote:

    > > not to mention that going through
    > > a back door, as you suggest, is not good advice.

    >
    > You don't want to, because the facts would hurt your argument.
    > Once more you have proven yourself.


    if they're actually facts, then you should be able to find a link that
    has no hoops.

    > You bore me.


    yet you keep reading and responding to my posts.
    nospam, Jun 11, 2014
    #64
  5. RichA

    Tony Cooper Guest

    On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 08:07:45 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
    <> wrote:

    >On Sunday, 8 June 2014 02:59:39 UTC+1, RichA wrote:
    >> I flipped by a show on TV called, "UFO Files" or some such name. They had film of a triangular shaped "UFO." They intoned how it was never explained by the air force. It was 4 lights, probably on a plane, defocused by a camera lens with a squarish diaphragm. I laughed out loud.

    >
    >For loons how about this.
    >
    >-----------------------------------------------
    >"Put into laymen's terms, the solar panels capture the sun's energy, but pull on the sun over time, forcing more energy to be released than the sun is actually producing," WIT claims in a scientific white paper published on Wednesday -
    >
    >
    >
    >http://nationalreport.net/solar-panels-drain-suns-energy-experts-say/
    >
    >
    >Scientists at the Wyoming Institute of Technology, a privately-owned think tank located in Cheyenne, Wyoming, discovered that energy radiated from the sun isn't merely captured in solar panels, but that energy is directly physically drawn from the sun by those panels, in a process they refer to as "forced photovoltaic drainage." -
    >
    >WIT is adamant that there's no immediate danger, however. "Currently, solar panels are an energy niche, and do not pose a serious risk to the sun.
    >
    >
    >
    >I wonder if there's anyone on this group will argue that they are correct ;-)
    >


    Uhhh...Dave...about the National Report. It's satire. It's not real
    news. Compare it to "The Onion", but not as well done.

    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
    Tony Cooper, Jun 11, 2014
    #65
  6. RichA

    Tony Cooper Guest

    On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 13:15:16 -0400, nospam <>
    wrote:

    >In article <>,
    >Whisky-dave <> wrote:
    >
    >> For loons how about this.
    >>
    >> -----------------------------------------------
    >> "Put into laymen's terms, the solar panels capture the sun's energy, but pull
    >> on the sun over time, forcing more energy to be released than the sun is
    >> actually producing," WIT claims in a scientific white paper published on
    >> Wednesday -
    >>
    >> http://nationalreport.net/solar-panels-drain-suns-energy-experts-say/
    >>
    >> Scientists at the Wyoming Institute of Technology, a privately-owned think
    >> tank located in Cheyenne, Wyoming, discovered that energy radiated from the
    >> sun isn't merely captured in solar panels, but that energy is directly
    >> physically drawn from the sun by those panels, in a process they refer to as
    >> "forced photovoltaic drainage." -
    >>
    >> WIT is adamant that there's no immediate danger, however. "Currently, solar
    >> panels are an energy niche, and do not pose a serious risk to the sun.

    >
    >it takes a special kind of stupid to come up with that shit.


    No, it takes someone who can write believable satire that sucks in
    idiots like you. It's a spoof site.

    What's funny is that Fox News once picked up a story from the National
    Report, thought it was real, and ran it.

    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
    Tony Cooper, Jun 11, 2014
    #66
  7. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Tuesday, 10 June 2014 20:32:18 UTC+1, PeterN wrote:
    > On 6/10/2014 1:15 PM, nospam wrote:
    >
    > > In article <Vyylv.237450$4>, Martin Brown

    >
    > > <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    >
    > >

    >
    > >>>

    >
    > >>>>> I flipped by a show on TV called, "UFO Files" or some such name. They had

    >
    > >>>>> film of a triangular shaped "UFO." They intoned how it was never

    >
    > >>>>> explained

    >
    > >>>>> by the air force. It was 4 lights, probably on a plane, defocused by a

    >
    > >>>>> camera lens with a squarish diaphragm. I laughed out loud.

    >
    > >>>>>

    >
    > >>>>> So the alien disguise worked. :)

    >
    > >>>>

    >
    > >>>> Sometimes they're hiding in plain sight you know...

    >
    > >>>

    >
    > >>> there's an insane lunatic on dpreview that insists that aliens are here

    >
    > >>> on earth right now and live among us.

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> There is a lot of it about :(

    >
    > >

    >
    > > yes there is and it's often hilarious at what idiocy people say/post.

    >
    > >

    >
    > >>> he claims he has extensive proof and has even met them, but it's all

    >
    > >>> kept secret to avoid mass hysteria.

    >
    > >>>

    >
    > >>> supposedly they have been visiting earth for hundreds of thousands of

    >
    > >>> years and even built the pyramids because humans couldn't do it

    >
    > >>> themselves.

    >
    > >>>

    >
    > >>> you can't make this stuff up.

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> Erich Von Daniken already did with a best seller "Chariots of the Gods".

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> The sort of loons that believe this rot also insist that NASA did not go

    >
    > >> to the moon. Are they in for a shock when the Chinese go there and bring

    >
    > >> back one of the abandonned Hasselblad cameras as a souvenir.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > they'll no doubt have some crazy explanation, probably that it was an

    >
    > > ordinary hasselblad left out in the desert, perhaps in arizona where

    >
    > > the moon landing was supposedly staged, to 'age'.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > the flat-earth society is another fun one. the nonsense they parrot can

    >
    > > be an absolute hoot. they claim that the earth is actually a bowl and

    >
    > > 'orbiting' is just riding around the rim.

    >
    > >

    >
    > >> UFOs are much rarer now than they were at the height of the paranoid

    >
    > >> Cold War era. Not least because orbital elements of known space objects

    >
    > >> is widely available with predictions of the strartlingly bright Iridium

    >
    > >> flares now very precise. And I bet most people have never seen one!

    >
    > >

    >
    > > the ufos might be rarer, but the loonies are in full force.

    >
    > >

    >
    >
    >
    > If you look at the definition, vaccines, and anti-venoms, fall into the
    >
    > category of homeopathic medicines.
    >
    >
    >
    > Here's what WebMD has to say about it.
    >
    > <http://www.webmd.com/balance/guide/homeopathy-topic-overview>
    >
    >
    >
    > Yes there are a lot of scams. But some of them really do work.


    Yeep thre;'s been proper studies on teh placebo effct that fact that it does have an effect proves it can work but no ones really sure why it works in some people.

    > Chicken
    > soup is an old remedy that truly provides symptomatic relief.


    I thought they knew what particualr protiens are in chicken soup to make it work. Why else would I have a packet of cock soup in the cupboard. :)


    > Acupuncture and trans-cutaneous electrical devices really do provide
    > pain relief.


    Reflexology is another wierd one but it works.

    Another thing some believe in is mystical magic called Majick.
    Never seen evidence of that working though.
    Whisky-dave, Jun 11, 2014
    #67
  8. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Tuesday, 10 June 2014 23:51:49 UTC+1, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2014-06-10 19:39:51 +0000, PeterN <> said:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On 6/10/2014 2:12 PM, Savageduck wrote:

    >
    >
    >
    > << Le Snip >>
    >
    >
    >
    > >> Homeopathy is all placebo. You might as well have a shaman dance around

    >
    > >> you while shaking a rattle.

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >

    >
    > > Here is a thought provoking article on the efficacy of TCM.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > <http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/553037>

    >
    >
    >
    > That might be interesting to read if I didn't have to log in.


    I read some of teh opening page wasn;t prompted to login maybe I missed something.
    Whisky-dave, Jun 11, 2014
    #68
  9. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Tuesday, 10 June 2014 19:19:47 UTC+1, nospam wrote:
    > In article <>, android <>
    >
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > > the flat-earth society is another fun one. the nonsense they parrot can

    >
    > > > be an absolute hoot. they claim that the earth is actually a bowl and

    >
    > > > 'orbiting' is just riding around the rim.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > oki... the flat bowl society it is... do they charge for membership? or

    >
    > > do they make you spend your heritage on classes like the auuch...

    >
    > > the word of whatever shape (bad really) want's to know!

    >
    >
    >
    > there's a free membership level and paid options as well.
    >
    >
    >
    > <http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/>
    >
    > Official Membership�- After much planning, we are now ready to
    >
    > officially accept new members to the Society. Becoming an associate
    >
    > member of the Society is free and is as simple as sending a postcard.
    >
    > For those who wish to take on a more committed role in the Society,
    >
    > full membership (including a signed certificate, membership card and
    >
    > hand-numbered Flat Earth Society medallion) is available for a small
    >
    > donation.


    I was once told that the earth was optically flat, I'll,let those those know about optics work that one out, anyone know anything about lens theory ;-)
    Whisky-dave, Jun 11, 2014
    #69
  10. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest

    On Wednesday, 11 June 2014 07:35:24 UTC+1, YouDontNeedToKnowButItsNoëlle wrote:
    > Le 10/06/14 19:15, nospam a écrit :
    >
    >
    >
    > >> Scientists at the Wyoming Institute of Technology, a privately-owned think

    >
    > >> tank located in Cheyenne, Wyoming, discovered that energy radiated from the

    >
    > >> sun isn't merely captured in solar panels, but that energy is directly

    >
    > >> physically drawn from the sun by those panels, in a process they referto as

    >
    > >> "forced photovoltaic drainage." -

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> WIT is adamant that there's no immediate danger, however. "Currently,solar

    >
    > >> panels are an energy niche, and do not pose a serious risk to the sun.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > it takes a special kind of stupid to come up with that shit.

    >
    > >

    >
    > May be not so stupid as trying to use the stupidity as a source of
    >
    > energy ? (convert a fool's money into power ; power is energy).
    >
    >
    >
    > Noëlle Adam


    If stupidity could be turned into energy we'd have some pretty powerful polititions. So does that make the most powerful polititions a source of stupidity, it can certainly seem that way at times.
    Whisky-dave, Jun 11, 2014
    #70
  11. RichA

    Whisky-dave Guest


    > >> You are also aware that an excess of water is a major killer of people?

    > > nobody is claiming to drink fatal amounts of water.


    I'm not sure it's a major killer of people unless you count drowning and even then drowning is not normaly classed as a major killer.

    But drinking excessive amounts of water can overload the kidneys/liver and cause death.
    Note I don't put ice in my whisky ;-)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
    Whisky-dave, Jun 11, 2014
    #71
  12. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 6/10/2014 10:44 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2014-06-11 01:41:37 +0000, PeterN <> said:
    >
    >> On 6/10/2014 8:43 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>> On 2014-06-11 00:24:40 +0000, PeterN <> said:
    >>>
    >>>> On 6/10/2014 6:51 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>>> On 2014-06-10 19:39:51 +0000, PeterN <>
    >>>>> said:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On 6/10/2014 2:12 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> << Le Snip >>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> Homeopathy is all placebo. You might as well have a shaman dance
    >>>>>>> around
    >>>>>>> you while shaking a rattle.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Here is a thought provoking article on the efficacy of TCM.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> <http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/553037>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> That might be interesting to read if I didn't have to log in.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I didn't have to log in. I did a Google search on efficacy traditional
    >>>> Chinese, and I just clicked on the article.
    >>>
    >>> That's nice. However, what you posted is inaccessible, and I have 16
    >>> years of experience in college, pathology labs, and two pharmaceutical
    >>> companies, before I made a career change at age 39. I don't need to hear
    >>> an opinion on the efficacy of homeopathy. I have read plenty of studies
    >>> and there is only one conclusion, there is no other than placebo effect.
    >>>
    >>> I moved to law enforcement because my state agency was recruiting folks
    >>> with different academic skills and qualifications to those of the
    >>> typical academy recruit, and the potential income & benefits were far
    >>> better than I was able to squeeze out of those N.J pharmaceutical
    >>> companies. For me it was the right move. I didn't move to law
    >>> enforcement as a 21 year old.
    >>>
    >>> So, I don't need to take the time to Google mythology.
    >>>

    >>
    >> TCM has been shown to work well when used in connection with Western
    >> medicine. We could easily get into a discussion of why, and if I am
    >> able to travel, would enjoy a good discussion with you. My knowledge
    >> of medicine and drugs comes from the business end and working on
    >> regulatory matters. I had a lot of clients in the health care field.
    >> In order to represent them properly, I had to understand their
    >> business. When doing contract negotiations, it was essential to due
    >> sufficient due diligence, to ensure the other side was capable of
    >> compliance with the contract.
    >> Just as you were able to detect areas to pursue from twitching and
    >> body language, I was able to detect things that didn't make sense,
    >> often from subtle clues.

    >
    > I am a bit more analytical than diagnosing by instinct, and hoping for
    > the best with mumbo-jumbo and guess work. I have a good record in
    > targeting decent antibiotic treatment in the lab by understanding just
    > how stuf works in a Petrie dish and how to measure and evaluate a zone
    > of inhibition.
    > < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agar_diffusion_test >


    Actually I was talking about your career in law enforcement, where in
    dealing with people instinct is an important component of your job.


    >
    > After Syracuse I worked at Faxton Hospital in Utica, NY for three years,
    > and then moved to Schering in Kenilworth, N.J. where I worked on
    > corticosteroids and antibiotics (including antibiotics in joint
    > replacement adhesives). From there I worked at Lederle Labs, an American
    > Cyanamid division, on one specific antibiotic. By 1988 the writing was
    > on the wall regarding a takeover by Wyeth, and eventually its merger
    > with Pfizer. So I moved to greener pastures.
    >
    >> Back to the topic of homeopathic medicine. I agree there is a lot of
    >> room for fraud in the unregulated space. And indeed much fraud is
    >> committed. That doesn't mean that none of it works. A placebo effect
    >> recovery is very much a cure. The mind can have an effect on the body
    >> that few of us really understand.

    >
    > More psychosomatic palliative than curative.
    >
    >> Several years ago we went to a wedding where the brides father was
    >> diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, and was not expected to live
    >> more than a few weeks. He wanted very much to be at his daughter's
    >> wedding, but insisted that they not change the wedding plans. (The
    >> wedding was about eight months after he was diagnosed.) Plans were
    >> made for him to watch the wedding from the hospice, if he was still
    >> alive. He appeared at the wedding, wearing his tux. His cancer had
    >> gone into almost a complete remission, which lasted until the day the
    >> newly weds returned from their honeymoon. Coincidence, maybe. I don't
    >> know the answer, and neither do his oncologist.

    >
    > Remissions happen. The most likely explanation would be that all the
    > orthodox treatment actually worked to buy some time. In this case it
    > might well have been a case of mind over matter, since your story
    > implies he did not make it for more than another few weeks.
    >
    >

    I don't know for sure. I have heard of similar events from friends who
    are oncologists.


    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, Jun 11, 2014
    #72
  13. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 6/11/2014 12:27 AM, Eric Stevens wrote:
    > On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:24:40 -0400, PeterN
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> On 6/10/2014 6:51 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>> On 2014-06-10 19:39:51 +0000, PeterN <> said:
    >>>
    >>>> On 6/10/2014 2:12 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>
    >>> << Le Snip >>
    >>>
    >>>>> Homeopathy is all placebo. You might as well have a shaman dance around
    >>>>> you while shaking a rattle.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Here is a thought provoking article on the efficacy of TCM.
    >>>>
    >>>> <http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/553037>
    >>>
    >>> That might be interesting to read if I didn't have to log in.
    >>>

    >>
    >> I didn't have to log in. I did a Google search on efficacy traditional
    >> Chinese, and I just clicked on the article.

    >
    > Traditional Chinese medecine is not at all the same thing as
    > homeopathy.
    >


    No it is not. But, it is a branch of what we call alternative medicine.


    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, Jun 11, 2014
    #73
  14. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 6/11/2014 12:44 AM, Eric Stevens wrote:
    > On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 16:15:26 -0400, PeterN
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> On 6/10/2014 3:51 PM, nospam wrote:
    >>> In article <>, PeterN
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> If you look at the definition, vaccines, and anti-venoms, fall into the
    >>>> category of homeopathic medicines.
    >>>
    >>> no they don't.
    >>>
    >>> vaccines contain inert antigens so the body's immune system can build
    >>> up antibodies, but on occasion, there can be side effects and even
    >>> death.
    >>>
    >>> a homeopathic remedy (it's not medicine) is a substance that is highly
    >>> diluted in water, so much so that it won't even have one *molecule* of
    >>> the substance in the final product.
    >>>
    >>> in other words, it's plain water.
    >>>
    >>> it's complete bullshit and does absolutely nothing whatsoever to cure
    >>> anything that plain ordinary water would not do.
    >>>
    >>> however, it can't hurt, because it's just water.
    >>>
    >>> at best, it's a placebo. at worst, someone tries it instead of proper
    >>> treatment and gets worse and possibly dies.
    >>>
    >>>> Here's what WebMD has to say about it.
    >>>> <http://www.webmd.com/balance/guide/homeopathy-topic-overview>
    >>>
    >>> that doesn't say much of anything.
    >>>

    >> From the article:
    >> "highly diluted or "potentiated" substances. There is some evidence to
    >> show that homeopathic medicines may have helpful effects."
    >>

    >
    > ... some ... may ... helpful (not curative) effects.
    >
    > Peter, that seems a pretty well boiled reed to lean on.


    Cure is a subset of helpful. But, is any "cure" really permanent.



    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>> Yes there are a lot of scams. But some of them really do work. Chicken
    >>>> soup is an old remedy that truly provides symptomatic relief.
    >>>
    >>> chicken soup is not considered homeopathy and doesn't always work
    >>> anyway.
    >>>
    >>>> Acupuncture and trans-cutaneous electrical devices really do provide
    >>>> pain relief.
    >>>
    >>> also not homeopathy and they make extreme claims.
    >>>



    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, Jun 11, 2014
    #74
  15. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 6/11/2014 12:48 AM, Savageduck wrote:

    <snip>

    >
    > The most important comment to come out of the Wikipedia article on
    > homeopathy is this:
    > "Homeopathy lacks biological plausibility and the axioms of homeopathy
    > have been refuted for some time. The postulated mechanisms of action of
    > homeopathic remedies are both scientifically implausible and not
    > physically possible."
    > < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy >
    >


    I would not take Wikipedia as a scientific authority. Yes it does
    represent current thought to a large degree. But it is not scientific
    authority.

    I am not as quick as you to put down alternative treatments, including
    homeopathy.


    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, Jun 11, 2014
    #75
  16. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 6/11/2014 11:00 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2014-06-11 12:36:11 +0000, PeterN <> said:


    <snip>

    >> Actually I was talking about your career in law enforcement, where in
    >> dealing with people instinct is an important component of your job.

    >
    > There is much more to interviewing/interrogation than instinct. There
    > are skills which are learned, and like all skills can be applied well or
    > poorly. There are interviewers who are artists, and there are those you
    > don't let anywhere near a witness or a subject. There are behavior
    > traits which are very telling and the skilled interviewer knows how to
    > identify them. There is a methodology to an interview, and you having
    > worked in a Courtroom, know that you shouldn't ask a question you don't
    > know the answer to. (the grammarians can jump all over that one if they
    > care to.)


    All of that is what I consider instinct. To my way of thinking the word
    instinct includes the total of your life experiences.

    >
    > Typically, you should have most of what you need to gain a conviction
    > before any interview with a subject. Evaluating witnesses is another
    > issue, and that is an area where D.A. investigators do a very different
    > job to other law enforcement.
    >


    Without knowing, I am willing to bet that there have been times when a
    witness surprises you.


    > For the street officer he/she is also an observer of behavior. There are
    > things the trained eye recognizes, and that applies to medical
    > practitioners as well.
    >


    Couldn't agree more. Which brings us back to medicine. A skilled
    diagnostic physician can often learn a lot about his patients condition.
    Yet, all too often today he puts the patient in the hands of a PA and/or
    a nurse to "take the vitals." During these routine procedures the doc
    can be talking to his patient. It is during the discussion that the
    patient often opens up and the real problems are disclosed. Yet Medicare
    and insurance rates don't pay enough to allow the doc to take that time.



    After Syracuse I worked at Faxton Hospital in Utica, NY for three years,
    >>> and then moved to Schering in Kenilworth, N.J. where I worked on
    >>> corticosteroids and antibiotics (including antibiotics in joint
    >>> replacement adhesives). From there I worked at Lederle Labs, an American
    >>> Cyanamid division, on one specific antibiotic. By 1988 the writing was
    >>> on the wall regarding a takeover by Wyeth, and eventually its merger
    >>> with Pfizer. So I moved to greener pastures.
    >>>
    >>>> Back to the topic of homeopathic medicine. I agree there is a lot of
    >>>> room for fraud in the unregulated space. And indeed much fraud is
    >>>> committed. That doesn't mean that none of it works. A placebo effect
    >>>> recovery is very much a cure. The mind can have an effect on the body
    >>>> that few of us really understand.
    >>>
    >>> More psychosomatic palliative than curative.
    >>>
    >>>> Several years ago we went to a wedding where the brides father was
    >>>> diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, and was not expected to live
    >>>> more than a few weeks. He wanted very much to be at his daughter's
    >>>> wedding, but insisted that they not change the wedding plans. (The
    >>>> wedding was about eight months after he was diagnosed.) Plans were
    >>>> made for him to watch the wedding from the hospice, if he was still
    >>>> alive. He appeared at the wedding, wearing his tux. His cancer had
    >>>> gone into almost a complete remission, which lasted until the day the
    >>>> newly weds returned from their honeymoon. Coincidence, maybe. I don't
    >>>> know the answer, and neither do his oncologist.
    >>>
    >>> Remissions happen. The most likely explanation would be that all the
    >>> orthodox treatment actually worked to buy some time. In this case it
    >>> might well have been a case of mind over matter, since your story
    >>> implies he did not make it for more than another few weeks.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> I don't know for sure. I have heard of similar events from friends who
    >> are oncologists.

    >
    > Sometimes it is a case of mind over matter, and then a few weeks later
    > the inevitable happens, and everybody at the bedside says in
    > bewilderment; "We don't know what happened, he was doing so well."
    >



    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, Jun 11, 2014
    #76
  17. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 6/11/2014 11:50 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2014-06-11 13:18:10 +0000, PeterN <> said:
    >
    >> On 6/11/2014 12:48 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>
    >> <snip>
    >>
    >>>
    >>> The most important comment to come out of the Wikipedia article on
    >>> homeopathy is this:
    >>> "Homeopathy lacks biological plausibility and the axioms of homeopathy
    >>> have been refuted for some time. The postulated mechanisms of action of
    >>> homeopathic remedies are both scientifically implausible and not
    >>> physically possible."
    >>> < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy >
    >>>

    >>
    >> I would not take Wikipedia as a scientific authority. Yes it does
    >> represent current thought to a large degree. But it is not scientific
    >> authority.

    >
    > While Wikipedia isn't the NEJM, in many areas it provides verifiable
    > information supported by citable references. Also they accept supported
    > challenges.
    > I use Wikipedia for many references when the articles are well written
    > and referenced, in the case of homeopathy it meets both of those standards.
    >
    >> I am not as quick as you to put down alternative treatments, including
    >> homeopathy.

    >
    > So, would you prefer acupuncture to a pacemaker to deal with arrhythmia
    > and other cardiac issues?


    Acupuncture is as appropriate a treatment for a cardiac issue as
    dialysis, or ketchup.

    > Would you prefer a pill which is basically inert to treat pneumonia?
    > Homeopathy is useless other than as placebo therapy, and any beneficial
    > effects of many other traditional medicine is purely accidental or
    > coincidental.


    We are still in the early stages of the healing arts. I would not be so
    quick to dismiss anything.

    With no chemical intervention my heart ejection fraction increased from
    36% to 52% by using a machine that pumps air into me at night.

    Skin cancer is prevented through an intense dose of UV light.

    Dogs have been accurate in diagnosing cancer.



    >
    > Cupping didn't prove too beneficial in the middle ages and it does
    > little good in TCM other that to know that there is some guy doing
    > something and hoping for the best.
    > Bleeding didn't do George Washington much good, it is was probably the
    > treatment that killed him. Chicken soup would have been better in that
    > particular case.
    >
    >

    Modern medicine has rediscovered leeches.

    Don't misunderstand my position. While I don't endorse all alternative
    medicines, I don't dismiss all, out of hand.

    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, Jun 11, 2014
    #77
  18. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 6/11/2014 2:52 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2014-06-11 17:28:28 +0000, PeterN <> said:
    >
    >> On 6/11/2014 11:00 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>> On 2014-06-11 12:36:11 +0000, PeterN <> said:

    >>
    >> <snip>
    >>
    >>>> Actually I was talking about your career in law enforcement, where in
    >>>> dealing with people instinct is an important component of your job.
    >>>
    >>> There is much more to interviewing/interrogation than instinct. There
    >>> are skills which are learned, and like all skills can be applied well or
    >>> poorly. There are interviewers who are artists, and there are those you
    >>> don't let anywhere near a witness or a subject. There are behavior
    >>> traits which are very telling and the skilled interviewer knows how to
    >>> identify them. There is a methodology to an interview, and you having
    >>> worked in a Courtroom, know that you shouldn't ask a question you don't
    >>> know the answer to. (the grammarians can jump all over that one if they
    >>> care to.)

    >>
    >> All of that is what I consider instinct. To my way of thinking the
    >> word instinct includes the total of your life experiences.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Typically, you should have most of what you need to gain a conviction
    >>> before any interview with a subject. Evaluating witnesses is another
    >>> issue, and that is an area where D.A. investigators do a very different
    >>> job to other law enforcement.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Without knowing, I am willing to bet that there have been times when a
    >> witness surprises you.

    >
    > That sort of thing always happens. There are also times things are
    > missed, but for the most part interviews are systematic, and when done
    > badly, have to be repeated.
    > That is one of the reasons you start with an initial written statement,
    > usually taken by a field/desk officer. Then the investigative team
    > verifies much of what is in the statement. After that they conduct a
    > follow up interview usually to *just clarify a few things*. There we
    > look for consistency and explanatory elaboration. Once prevarication is
    > obvious, then we move into a very different style of interview. Usually,
    > if the interviewee is the subject of the investigation, we ask him/her
    > to tell us what happened. It is always best to let them tell their
    > entire story to get it on the record, and then go back to dissect it
    > point by point. However, as I said verified physical and witness
    > evidence are good interview tools to use to challenge subject's statements.
    >
    > Naturally they can always take the risk of saying they lied when making
    > a statement and risk perjuring themselves. Of course there is the
    > surprise bombshell, which when asked why they didn't say that earlier,
    > the usual reply is, "nobody asked me."


    In real life police work is rarely as portrayed on TV, or in the movies.

    I can think of two movies that portrayed certain exploits of some of my
    former clients. In one case I had to convince him that it was not in his
    best interests to sue the producers because they did not portray the
    incidents accurately.


    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, Jun 11, 2014
    #78
  19. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 6/11/2014 5:35 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2014-06-11 20:34:17 +0000, PeterN <> said:
    >
    >> On 6/11/2014 11:50 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>> On 2014-06-11 13:18:10 +0000, PeterN <> said:
    >>>
    >>>> On 6/11/2014 12:48 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> <snip>
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The most important comment to come out of the Wikipedia article on
    >>>>> homeopathy is this:
    >>>>> "Homeopathy lacks biological plausibility and the axioms of homeopathy
    >>>>> have been refuted for some time. The postulated mechanisms of
    >>>>> action of
    >>>>> homeopathic remedies are both scientifically implausible and not
    >>>>> physically possible."
    >>>>> < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy >
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I would not take Wikipedia as a scientific authority. Yes it does
    >>>> represent current thought to a large degree. But it is not scientific
    >>>> authority.
    >>>
    >>> While Wikipedia isn't the NEJM, in many areas it provides verifiable
    >>> information supported by citable references. Also they accept supported
    >>> challenges.
    >>> I use Wikipedia for many references when the articles are well written
    >>> and referenced, in the case of homeopathy it meets both of those
    >>> standards.
    >>>
    >>>> I am not as quick as you to put down alternative treatments, including
    >>>> homeopathy.
    >>>
    >>> So, would you prefer acupuncture to a pacemaker to deal with arrhythmia
    >>> and other cardiac issues?

    >>
    >> Acupuncture is as appropriate a treatment for a cardiac issue as
    >> dialysis, or ketchup.

    >
    > I seem to recall that you had recent knee replacement surgery. I guess
    > acupuncture wasn't too effective to prevent that from happening.


    Nope. I have a pacemaker/defibrillator. And I never had acupuncture. I
    do have bad bad knees, though.


    >
    >>> Would you prefer a pill which is basically inert to treat pneumonia?
    >>> Homeopathy is useless other than as placebo therapy, and any beneficial
    >>> effects of many other traditional medicine is purely accidental or
    >>> coincidental.

    >>
    >> We are still in the early stages of the healing arts. I would not be
    >> so quick to dismiss anything.
    >>
    >> With no chemical intervention my heart ejection fraction increased
    >> from 36% to 52% by using a machine that pumps air into me at night.

    >
    > Aah! at little CPAP is need to help you through the night. That sleep
    > apnea can be managed in several ways, the first of which is to cut out
    > that ice cream you love so much. That said CPAP is a valid therapy, it
    > is not alternative medicine.


    I am well aware of that. I phrased it that way for emphasis that we are
    rarely certain about what works and what doesn't.
    RE: my coronary conditions. After a couple of hours in Butterfly World
    in Pompano, my BP went down to 110/60.
    A doctor friend, told me that when he had patients with sexual
    dysfunction, he suggested that they try someone new. Is that an
    alternative treatment?



    > You say no chemical intervention was used, but I seem to recall that you
    > have had various cardiac issue in the last few years. I am pretty sure
    > there were some meds prescribed, even if they were just for BP.
    >

    Absolutely I took BP meds. Without a change in meds my ejection fraction
    increased significantly. No, that's not completely accurate. certain
    meds were decreased.

    >> Skin cancer is prevented through an intense dose of UV light.

    >
    > Questionable at best. My various lesions (Solar keratoses, pre-cancerous
    > lesions, & squamous & basal cell carcinoma) have been dealt with in a
    > number of ways, exposure to UV light of any intensity has not been part
    > of that therapy for me.


    It's called photodynamic therapy, and being administered as Sloan-Kettering.
    This article from the National Cancer Institute explains the treatment.

    <http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Therapy/photodynamic>


    >
    >> Dogs have been accurate in diagnosing cancer.

    >
    > True.
    >
    >>> Cupping didn't prove too beneficial in the middle ages and it does
    >>> little good in TCM other that to know that there is some guy doing
    >>> something and hoping for the best.
    >>> Bleeding didn't do George Washington much good, it is was probably the
    >>> treatment that killed him. Chicken soup would have been better in that
    >>> particular case.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Modern medicine has rediscovered leeches.

    >
    > Absolutely! However, the purposes of using medicinal leeches today is
    > far different from those in days of yore when their use was just another
    > form of blood letting.
    > Today they can be useful in aiding wound healing, particularly with
    > diabetics, restoring blood circulation to skin grafts, and more.
    > Moreover, that has been verified via clinical trials and they are a
    > valid part of the clinician's tool box.
    >

    Again, just because we did it in the past, doesn't mean the treatment is
    snake oil.

    >
    >> Don't misunderstand my position. While I don't endorse all alternative
    >> medicines, I don't dismiss all, out of hand.

    >
    > Modern medicine is learning and has learned much from tribal medicine,
    > and probably has a whole bunch more to learn. However, homeopathy is
    > built from a questionable premise. It has no quantitative or qualitative
    > validity, and is of zero medicinal value. It is quackery of the first
    > degree and the best one can say about it is it is a fine source of
    > placeboes with different names. Hell! at least with snake oil you had
    > the potential to get drunk, that cannot be said of homeopathic remedies.
    >
    >

    Let's just agree to disagree on homeopathic medicine and hope we both
    live to find out that my position is correct.

    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, Jun 11, 2014
    #79
  20. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 6/11/2014 7:26 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:
    > On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 18:33:30 -0400, PeterN
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > ---- snip ----
    >
    >>>> Skin cancer is prevented through an intense dose of UV light.

    >
    > Not so: quite the reverse in fact. The article you have linked to
    > below describes the use of chemotherapy in which the agent is
    > activated by ultraviolet light to kill an _already_established_
    > cancer.
    >>>
    >>> Questionable at best. My various lesions (Solar keratoses, pre-cancerous
    >>> lesions, & squamous & basal cell carcinoma) have been dealt with in a
    >>> number of ways, exposure to UV light of any intensity has not been part
    >>> of that therapy for me.

    >>
    >> It's called photodynamic therapy, and being administered as Sloan-Kettering.
    >> This article from the National Cancer Institute explains the treatment.
    >>
    >> <http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Therapy/photodynamic>
    >>

    > As you say, it's a treatment. It's not, as you originally claimed, a
    > preventative.
    >


    It's purpose is to prevent actinic kerotosis from developing into
    cancer. It is not used on cancers. I have been getting those treatments
    for several years, and hopefully understand my treatments.


    --
    PeterN
    PeterN, Jun 12, 2014
    #80
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. =?Utf-8?B?bW9tbXlraXNzZXM=?=

    I have two situations I cant seem to fix on my own!

    =?Utf-8?B?bW9tbXlraXNzZXM=?=, May 29, 2004, in forum: Microsoft Certification
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    461
    =?Utf-8?B?bW9tbXlraXNzZXM=?=
    May 29, 2004
  2. Graham Cross
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    834
    Phil McKerracher
    Jan 27, 2005
  3. Mike Garner

    Canon wide-angle lenses - Real life situations please?

    Mike Garner, Feb 6, 2004, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    610
    Johnny
    Feb 7, 2004
  4. Joseph O'Brien

    cameras for low light situations?

    Joseph O'Brien, Feb 11, 2004, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    330
    AArDvarK
    Feb 11, 2004
  5. Giuen
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    832
    Giuen
    Sep 12, 2008
Loading...

Share This Page