System will not boot

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Mike Stevenson, Jul 1, 2003.

  1. This is a long story. I need some help. Big Time. I've put together over a
    dozen systems in my time, starting from the old 386's up to now an AMD
    Athlon XP 1800+. But this has me stumped, and is driving me nuts at the same
    time.

    About a month ago lightning struck my house in a storm. It damaged several
    electrical appliances in the house. One was my computer. It managed to burn
    out my CPU, the MB, and the power supply in my system. And I mean burn,
    smoke, burn marks, blown fuses, the whole bit. And this was on the end of a
    surge protecter that was "guarenteed". So I replaced the MB, CPU, and Power
    Supply. I tested the video card in another system, works fine. I even
    changed the power cord. Without knowing it tho I had gotten a version of the
    MB that did not support the Model 8 Athlon. So the MB burned up the new CPU
    as soon as I started it. Ok setback. I sent away from another MB, this time
    being more careful, and settled on the Giga-byte GA-7VAX. I sent the CPU to
    AMD and they sent me back a replacement. So here is the current problem...

    Without anything plugged into the MB except for the CPU, its fan and
    heatsink, power button, and system speaker. I cannot get the system to boot.
    It will come on but just sits there. With a video card installed, it will
    not display anything. The fans run but nothing. I've tried clearing the BIOS
    as recommended by the vendor, by removing and then replacing the battery
    (there is no bios reset jumper on this board). I've tried 2 different video
    cards, both of which work in the other computer, but still nothing. I've
    removed, and replaced the RAM. No change at all. The CPU is brand new and
    straight from AMD. I have trouble believing its bad. I soppose its possible
    but my God what kind of luck that would be after all this other crap. We've
    even replaced the wall outlet, tried plugging the system into other spots in
    the house, NOTHING. I've changed jumpers, putting the MB into CPU
    auto-detect, and trying it with the multiplier and bus speed set manually.
    There is nothing currently hooked up from the original system that fried,
    and it STILL doesn't work. I checked the CPU for signs of physical damage
    before and a few times after starting it up. Nothing appears to be wrong. Is
    there anything, anything at all I could be missing? Someone PLEASE help...
    Mike Stevenson, Jul 1, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Mike Stevenson

    DH Guest

    Are you using the same power supply that was in the computer when it was
    hit? If so, try another one. Sometimes they seem to be fine.....but they're
    not.


    "Mike Stevenson" <> wrote in message
    news:FIhMa.7902$...
    > No I'm not still using the surge protector. And even so I've plugged the
    > system into other outlets throughout the house.
    >
    > "Mike Stevenson" <> wrote in message
    > news:qchMa.7894$...
    > > This is a long story. I need some help. Big Time. I've put together over

    a
    > > dozen systems in my time, starting from the old 386's up to now an AMD
    > > Athlon XP 1800+. But this has me stumped, and is driving me nuts at the

    > same
    > > time.
    > >
    > > About a month ago lightning struck my house in a storm. It damaged

    several
    > > electrical appliances in the house. One was my computer. It managed to

    > burn
    > > out my CPU, the MB, and the power supply in my system. And I mean burn,
    > > smoke, burn marks, blown fuses, the whole bit. And this was on the end

    of
    > a
    > > surge protecter that was "guarenteed". So I replaced the MB, CPU, and

    > Power
    > > Supply. I tested the video card in another system, works fine. I even
    > > changed the power cord. Without knowing it tho I had gotten a version of

    > the
    > > MB that did not support the Model 8 Athlon. So the MB burned up the new

    > CPU
    > > as soon as I started it. Ok setback. I sent away from another MB, this

    > time
    > > being more careful, and settled on the Giga-byte GA-7VAX. I sent the CPU

    > to
    > > AMD and they sent me back a replacement. So here is the current

    problem...
    > >
    > > Without anything plugged into the MB except for the CPU, its fan and
    > > heatsink, power button, and system speaker. I cannot get the system to

    > boot.
    > > It will come on but just sits there. With a video card installed, it

    will
    > > not display anything. The fans run but nothing. I've tried clearing the

    > BIOS
    > > as recommended by the vendor, by removing and then replacing the battery
    > > (there is no bios reset jumper on this board). I've tried 2 different

    > video
    > > cards, both of which work in the other computer, but still nothing. I've
    > > removed, and replaced the RAM. No change at all. The CPU is brand new

    and
    > > straight from AMD. I have trouble believing its bad. I soppose its

    > possible
    > > but my God what kind of luck that would be after all this other crap.

    > We've
    > > even replaced the wall outlet, tried plugging the system into other

    spots
    > in
    > > the house, NOTHING. I've changed jumpers, putting the MB into CPU
    > > auto-detect, and trying it with the multiplier and bus speed set

    manually.
    > > There is nothing currently hooked up from the original system that

    fried,
    > > and it STILL doesn't work. I checked the CPU for signs of physical

    damage
    > > before and a few times after starting it up. Nothing appears to be

    wrong.
    > Is
    > > there anything, anything at all I could be missing? Someone PLEASE

    help...
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    DH, Jul 1, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. No as I said I got a new power supply, higher wattage than the old one to
    make sure that wouldn't be an issue. I've replaced EVERYTHING except for the
    HDD, RAM, and Video Card. The Video card works in the other computer. The
    Ram I can't test unfortunately, but I've booted the system without the ram
    with no change.

    "DH" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Are you using the same power supply that was in the computer when it was
    > hit? If so, try another one. Sometimes they seem to be fine.....but

    they're
    > not.
    >
    >
    > "Mike Stevenson" <> wrote in message
    > news:FIhMa.7902$...
    > > No I'm not still using the surge protector. And even so I've plugged the
    > > system into other outlets throughout the house.
    > >
    > > "Mike Stevenson" <> wrote in message
    > > news:qchMa.7894$...
    > > > This is a long story. I need some help. Big Time. I've put together

    over
    > a
    > > > dozen systems in my time, starting from the old 386's up to now an AMD
    > > > Athlon XP 1800+. But this has me stumped, and is driving me nuts at

    the
    > > same
    > > > time.
    > > >
    > > > About a month ago lightning struck my house in a storm. It damaged

    > several
    > > > electrical appliances in the house. One was my computer. It managed to

    > > burn
    > > > out my CPU, the MB, and the power supply in my system. And I mean

    burn,
    > > > smoke, burn marks, blown fuses, the whole bit. And this was on the end

    > of
    > > a
    > > > surge protecter that was "guarenteed". So I replaced the MB, CPU, and

    > > Power
    > > > Supply. I tested the video card in another system, works fine. I even
    > > > changed the power cord. Without knowing it tho I had gotten a version

    of
    > > the
    > > > MB that did not support the Model 8 Athlon. So the MB burned up the

    new
    > > CPU
    > > > as soon as I started it. Ok setback. I sent away from another MB, this

    > > time
    > > > being more careful, and settled on the Giga-byte GA-7VAX. I sent the

    CPU
    > > to
    > > > AMD and they sent me back a replacement. So here is the current

    > problem...
    > > >
    > > > Without anything plugged into the MB except for the CPU, its fan and
    > > > heatsink, power button, and system speaker. I cannot get the system to

    > > boot.
    > > > It will come on but just sits there. With a video card installed, it

    > will
    > > > not display anything. The fans run but nothing. I've tried clearing

    the
    > > BIOS
    > > > as recommended by the vendor, by removing and then replacing the

    battery
    > > > (there is no bios reset jumper on this board). I've tried 2 different

    > > video
    > > > cards, both of which work in the other computer, but still nothing.

    I've
    > > > removed, and replaced the RAM. No change at all. The CPU is brand new

    > and
    > > > straight from AMD. I have trouble believing its bad. I soppose its

    > > possible
    > > > but my God what kind of luck that would be after all this other crap.

    > > We've
    > > > even replaced the wall outlet, tried plugging the system into other

    > spots
    > > in
    > > > the house, NOTHING. I've changed jumpers, putting the MB into CPU
    > > > auto-detect, and trying it with the multiplier and bus speed set

    > manually.
    > > > There is nothing currently hooked up from the original system that

    > fried,
    > > > and it STILL doesn't work. I checked the CPU for signs of physical

    > damage
    > > > before and a few times after starting it up. Nothing appears to be

    > wrong.
    > > Is
    > > > there anything, anything at all I could be missing? Someone PLEASE

    > help...
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Mike Stevenson, Jul 1, 2003
    #3
  4. Mike Stevenson

    HamMan Guest

    "Mike Stevenson" <> wrote in message
    news:W_hMa.7904$...
    > No as I said I got a new power supply, higher wattage than the old one to
    > make sure that wouldn't be an issue. I've replaced EVERYTHING except for

    the
    > HDD, RAM, and Video Card. The Video card works in the other computer. The
    > Ram I can't test unfortunately, but I've booted the system without the ram
    > with no change.
    >
    > "DH" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Are you using the same power supply that was in the computer when it was
    > > hit? If so, try another one. Sometimes they seem to be fine.....but

    > they're
    > > not.
    > >
    > >
    > > "Mike Stevenson" <> wrote in message
    > > news:FIhMa.7902$...
    > > > No I'm not still using the surge protector. And even so I've plugged

    the
    > > > system into other outlets throughout the house.
    > > >
    > > > "Mike Stevenson" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:qchMa.7894$...
    > > > > This is a long story. I need some help. Big Time. I've put together

    > over
    > > a
    > > > > dozen systems in my time, starting from the old 386's up to now an

    AMD
    > > > > Athlon XP 1800+. But this has me stumped, and is driving me nuts at

    > the
    > > > same
    > > > > time.
    > > > >
    > > > > About a month ago lightning struck my house in a storm. It damaged

    > > several
    > > > > electrical appliances in the house. One was my computer. It managed

    to
    > > > burn
    > > > > out my CPU, the MB, and the power supply in my system. And I mean

    > burn,
    > > > > smoke, burn marks, blown fuses, the whole bit. And this was on the

    end
    > > of
    > > > a
    > > > > surge protecter that was "guarenteed". So I replaced the MB, CPU,

    and
    > > > Power
    > > > > Supply. I tested the video card in another system, works fine. I

    even
    > > > > changed the power cord. Without knowing it tho I had gotten a

    version
    > of
    > > > the
    > > > > MB that did not support the Model 8 Athlon. So the MB burned up the

    > new
    > > > CPU
    > > > > as soon as I started it. Ok setback. I sent away from another MB,

    this
    > > > time
    > > > > being more careful, and settled on the Giga-byte GA-7VAX. I sent the

    > CPU
    > > > to
    > > > > AMD and they sent me back a replacement. So here is the current

    > > problem...
    > > > >
    > > > > Without anything plugged into the MB except for the CPU, its fan and
    > > > > heatsink, power button, and system speaker. I cannot get the system

    to
    > > > boot.
    > > > > It will come on but just sits there. With a video card installed, it

    > > will
    > > > > not display anything. The fans run but nothing. I've tried clearing

    > the
    > > > BIOS
    > > > > as recommended by the vendor, by removing and then replacing the

    > battery
    > > > > (there is no bios reset jumper on this board). I've tried 2

    different
    > > > video
    > > > > cards, both of which work in the other computer, but still nothing.

    > I've
    > > > > removed, and replaced the RAM. No change at all. The CPU is brand

    new
    > > and
    > > > > straight from AMD. I have trouble believing its bad. I soppose its
    > > > possible
    > > > > but my God what kind of luck that would be after all this other

    crap.
    > > > We've
    > > > > even replaced the wall outlet, tried plugging the system into other

    > > spots
    > > > in
    > > > > the house, NOTHING. I've changed jumpers, putting the MB into CPU
    > > > > auto-detect, and trying it with the multiplier and bus speed set

    > > manually.
    > > > > There is nothing currently hooked up from the original system that

    > > fried,
    > > > > and it STILL doesn't work. I checked the CPU for signs of physical

    > > damage
    > > > > before and a few times after starting it up. Nothing appears to be

    > > wrong.
    > > > Is
    > > > > there anything, anything at all I could be missing? Someone PLEASE

    > > help...
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >

    Get a cheap-o 128Mb stick of ram so you can test the system with some stuff
    that definatly works, and if the old stuff does still work u've just
    upgraded.
    HamMan, Jul 1, 2003
    #4
  5. Mike Stevenson

    Buffalo Guest

    "Mike Stevenson"
    > This is a long story. I need some help. Big Time. I've put together over a
    > dozen systems in my time, starting from the old 386's up to now an AMD
    > Athlon XP 1800+. But this has me stumped, and is driving me nuts at the

    same
    > time.
    >
    > About a month ago lightning struck my house in a storm. It damaged several
    > electrical appliances in the house. One was my computer. It managed to

    burn
    > out my CPU, the MB, and the power supply in my system. And I mean burn,
    > smoke, burn marks, blown fuses, the whole bit. And this was on the end of

    a
    > surge protecter that was "guarenteed". So I replaced the MB, CPU, and

    Power
    > Supply. I tested the video card in another system, works fine. I even
    > changed the power cord. Without knowing it tho I had gotten a version of

    the
    > MB that did not support the Model 8 Athlon. So the MB burned up the new

    CPU
    > as soon as I started it. Ok setback. I sent away from another MB, this

    time
    > being more careful, and settled on the Giga-byte GA-7VAX. I sent the CPU

    to
    > AMD and they sent me back a replacement. So here is the current problem...
    >
    > Without anything plugged into the MB except for the CPU, its fan and
    > heatsink, power button, and system speaker. I cannot get the system to

    boot.
    > It will come on but just sits there. With a video card installed, it will
    > not display anything. The fans run but nothing. I've tried clearing the

    BIOS
    > as recommended by the vendor, by removing and then replacing the battery
    > (there is no bios reset jumper on this board). I've tried 2 different

    video
    > cards, both of which work in the other computer, but still nothing. I've
    > removed, and replaced the RAM. No change at all. The CPU is brand new and
    > straight from AMD. I have trouble believing its bad. I soppose its

    possible
    > but my God what kind of luck that would be after all this other crap.

    We've
    > even replaced the wall outlet, tried plugging the system into other spots

    in
    > the house, NOTHING. I've changed jumpers, putting the MB into CPU
    > auto-detect, and trying it with the multiplier and bus speed set manually.
    > There is nothing currently hooked up from the original system that fried,
    > and it STILL doesn't work. I checked the CPU for signs of physical damage
    > before and a few times after starting it up. Nothing appears to be wrong.

    Is
    > there anything, anything at all I could be missing? Someone PLEASE help...



    Any beeps?
    Any chance of trying another PSU (maybe it went bad when you burned up the
    last cpu) or at least getting it tested?
    Any chance you can try another cpu or put yours in another system?
    RMA the MB or have it tested first.
    Buffalo, Jul 1, 2003
    #5
  6. Mike Stevenson

    Brian H¹© Guest

    X-No-Archive: Yes
    Errrrr...erm... Mike Stevenson said:

    > This is a long story. I need some help. Big Time. I've put together over a
    > dozen systems in my time, starting from the old 386's up to now an AMD
    > Athlon XP 1800+. But this has me stumped, and is driving me nuts at the same
    > time.
    >
    > About a month ago lightning struck my house in a storm. It damaged several
    > electrical appliances in the house. One was my computer. It managed to burn
    > out my CPU, the MB, and the power supply in my system. And I mean burn,
    > smoke, burn marks, blown fuses, the whole bit. And this was on the end of a
    > surge protecter that was "guarenteed". So I replaced the MB, CPU, and Power
    > Supply. I tested the video card in another system, works fine. I even
    > changed the power cord. Without knowing it tho I had gotten a version of the
    > MB that did not support the Model 8 Athlon. So the MB burned up the new CPU
    > as soon as I started it. Ok setback. I sent away from another MB, this time
    > being more careful, and settled on the Giga-byte GA-7VAX. I sent the CPU to
    > AMD and they sent me back a replacement. So here is the current problem...
    >
    > Without anything plugged into the MB except for the CPU, its fan and
    > heatsink, power button, and system speaker. I cannot get the system to boot.


    Have you thought about trying it with a HDD?

    (snip)
    Brian H¹©, Jul 1, 2003
    #6
  7. When I first put it together I had everything, including the HDD hooked up.
    A system will boot without one however, I've done it many times while
    troubleshooting. It will also boot without RAM or a Video Card if need be. I
    tested the voltages on the Power Supply with a multi-meter and it is
    supplying the proper amount of power to the board. This leaves me with...The
    Motherboard is bad, brand new retail box; The CPU is bad, brand new OEM from
    AMD (from their testing labs), the RAM is bad, Micron DDR2100 from
    crucial.com. If its the RAM than its not JUST the RAM. At least that I can
    get replaced easily. I am going to test the CPU in the other system, and
    take it from there...


    "Brian H¹©" <> wrote in message
    news:7BkMa.1030$...
    > X-No-Archive: Yes
    > Errrrr...erm... Mike Stevenson said:
    >
    > > This is a long story. I need some help. Big Time. I've put together over

    a
    > > dozen systems in my time, starting from the old 386's up to now an AMD
    > > Athlon XP 1800+. But this has me stumped, and is driving me nuts at the

    same
    > > time.
    > >
    > > About a month ago lightning struck my house in a storm. It damaged

    several
    > > electrical appliances in the house. One was my computer. It managed to

    burn
    > > out my CPU, the MB, and the power supply in my system. And I mean burn,
    > > smoke, burn marks, blown fuses, the whole bit. And this was on the end

    of a
    > > surge protecter that was "guarenteed". So I replaced the MB, CPU, and

    Power
    > > Supply. I tested the video card in another system, works fine. I even
    > > changed the power cord. Without knowing it tho I had gotten a version of

    the
    > > MB that did not support the Model 8 Athlon. So the MB burned up the new

    CPU
    > > as soon as I started it. Ok setback. I sent away from another MB, this

    time
    > > being more careful, and settled on the Giga-byte GA-7VAX. I sent the CPU

    to
    > > AMD and they sent me back a replacement. So here is the current

    problem...
    > >
    > > Without anything plugged into the MB except for the CPU, its fan and
    > > heatsink, power button, and system speaker. I cannot get the system to

    boot.
    >
    > Have you thought about trying it with a HDD?
    >
    > (snip)
    >
    >
    Mike Stevenson, Jul 1, 2003
    #7
  8. Mike Stevenson

    Brian H¹© Guest

    X-No-Archive: Yes
    Errrrr...erm... Mike Stevenson said:

    > When I first put it together I had everything, including the HDD hooked up.
    > A system will boot without one however, I've done it many times while
    > troubleshooting. It will also boot without RAM or a Video Card if need be. I
    > tested the voltages on the Power Supply with a multi-meter and it is
    > supplying the proper amount of power to the board. This leaves me with...The
    > Motherboard is bad, brand new retail box; The CPU is bad, brand new OEM from
    > AMD (from their testing labs), the RAM is bad, Micron DDR2100 from
    > crucial.com. If its the RAM than its not JUST the RAM. At least that I can
    > get replaced easily. I am going to test the CPU in the other system, and
    > take it from there...
    >


    (snip)
    When I fitted my present mobo I couldn't get it to power up, I took the pc back
    to the shop where I bought the board and they pulled the wires and re-inserted
    them. When I got home, I took another look at the manual and spotted that the
    manufacturer had made 2 enormous mistakes in their wiring diagram.
    Could this be a part of your problem, or possibly quite simply that you have put
    a connector in the wrong way round?
    Brian H¹©, Jul 1, 2003
    #8
  9. Mike Stevenson

    boy wonder Guest

    You didn't hear any "post" code beep at all?
    Why do some people post at the bottom of the message?

    Brian H¹© wrote:
    > X-No-Archive: Yes
    > Errrrr...erm... Mike Stevenson said:
    >
    >> When I first put it together I had everything, including the HDD
    >> hooked up.
    >> A system will boot without one however, I've done it many times while
    >> troubleshooting. It will also boot without RAM or a Video Card if
    >> need be. I tested the voltages on the Power Supply with a
    >> multi-meter and it is supplying the proper amount of power to the
    >> board. This leaves me with...The Motherboard is bad, brand new
    >> retail box; The CPU is bad, brand new OEM from AMD (from their
    >> testing labs), the RAM is bad, Micron DDR2100 from crucial.com. If
    >> its the RAM than its not JUST the RAM. At least that I can get
    >> replaced easily. I am going to test the CPU in the other system, and
    >> take it from there...
    >>

    >
    > (snip)
    > When I fitted my present mobo I couldn't get it to power up, I took
    > the pc back to the shop where I bought the board and they pulled the
    > wires and re-inserted them. When I got home, I took another look at
    > the manual and spotted that the manufacturer had made 2 enormous
    > mistakes in their wiring diagram.
    > Could this be a part of your problem, or possibly quite simply that
    > you have put a connector in the wrong way round?


    --
    boy wonder
    boy wonder, Jul 1, 2003
    #9
  10. Mike Stevenson

    Brian H¹© Guest

    X-No-Archive: Yes
    Errrrr...erm... boy wonder said:

    > You didn't hear any "post" code beep at all?
    > Why do some people post at the bottom of the message?


    I don't have a problem, the op does.
    As for posting at the bottom, if someone writes you a letter, starts at the top
    of the page, and asks you to reply using the same piece of paper, where would
    you write your reply?
    When you sit/sat for exams, where did you write your answers, before or after
    the questions?

    >
    > Brian H¹© wrote:
    >> X-No-Archive: Yes
    >> Errrrr...erm... Mike Stevenson said:
    >>
    >>> When I first put it together I had everything, including the HDD
    >>> hooked up.
    >>> A system will boot without one however, I've done it many times while
    >>> troubleshooting. It will also boot without RAM or a Video Card if
    >>> need be. I tested the voltages on the Power Supply with a
    >>> multi-meter and it is supplying the proper amount of power to the
    >>> board. This leaves me with...The Motherboard is bad, brand new
    >>> retail box; The CPU is bad, brand new OEM from AMD (from their
    >>> testing labs), the RAM is bad, Micron DDR2100 from crucial.com. If
    >>> its the RAM than its not JUST the RAM. At least that I can get
    >>> replaced easily. I am going to test the CPU in the other system, and
    >>> take it from there...
    >>>

    >>
    >> (snip)
    >> When I fitted my present mobo I couldn't get it to power up, I took
    >> the pc back to the shop where I bought the board and they pulled the
    >> wires and re-inserted them. When I got home, I took another look at
    >> the manual and spotted that the manufacturer had made 2 enormous
    >> mistakes in their wiring diagram.
    >> Could this be a part of your problem, or possibly quite simply that
    >> you have put a connector in the wrong way round?
    Brian H¹©, Jul 1, 2003
    #10
  11. Mike Stevenson

    boy wonder Guest

    link for post codes:
    http://www.bioscentral.com/

    Mike Stevenson wrote:
    > When I very first powered up the system it cut off after 5 seconds.
    > After a little reading I determined this was becuase of a built in
    > shutdown that cuts off if the temp goes too high. It was doing that
    > becuase the heatsink was not tight enough on the CPU (it uses spring
    > mounted clips to adhere to the CPU, they have to be adjusted
    > carefully to provide proper pressure). After I adjusted them the
    > system came up and stayed on. It did beep, but only that very fast
    > time. I believe it was 3 beeps, it may have been 4. The manual
    > doesn't have any info on POST code beeps unfortunately. I assumed it
    > was simply becuase I had taken the RAM out by that point, and it was
    > beeping to tell me there was no RAM. It hasnt beeped at all since
    > then.
    >
    > I've run a few more tests, trying a different power supply just for
    > kicks. No change. I couldn't remove the CPU from the other PC with
    > risk of damaging it. The metal bar on the heatsink has apparently
    > tightened up. I am sure I could have removed it but I was afraid of
    > damaging the only working PC in the house. I was going to try the
    > Duron from the other PC in this system, and try out its CPU in the
    > other.
    >
    > I am almost out of ideas here. I am frustrated. I've been without my
    > gaming PC for a month now, I've spent money I didn't plan on trying
    > to get it fixed.
    >
    > "Brian H¹©" <> wrote in message
    > news:R3mMa.1164$...
    >> X-No-Archive: Yes
    >> Errrrr...erm... boy wonder said:
    >>
    >>> You didn't hear any "post" code beep at all?
    >>> Why do some people post at the bottom of the message?

    >>
    >> I don't have a problem, the op does.
    >> As for posting at the bottom, if someone writes you a letter, starts
    >> at the top of the page, and asks you to reply using the same piece
    >> of paper, where would you write your reply?
    >> When you sit/sat for exams, where did you write your answers, before
    >> or after the questions?
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Brian H¹© wrote:
    >>>> X-No-Archive: Yes
    >>>> Errrrr...erm... Mike Stevenson said:
    >>>>
    >>>>> When I first put it together I had everything, including the HDD
    >>>>> hooked up.
    >>>>> A system will boot without one however, I've done it many times
    >>>>> while troubleshooting. It will also boot without RAM or a Video
    >>>>> Card if need be. I tested the voltages on the Power Supply with a
    >>>>> multi-meter and it is supplying the proper amount of power to the
    >>>>> board. This leaves me with...The Motherboard is bad, brand new
    >>>>> retail box; The CPU is bad, brand new OEM from AMD (from their
    >>>>> testing labs), the RAM is bad, Micron DDR2100 from crucial.com. If
    >>>>> its the RAM than its not JUST the RAM. At least that I can get
    >>>>> replaced easily. I am going to test the CPU in the other system,
    >>>>> and take it from there...
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> (snip)
    >>>> When I fitted my present mobo I couldn't get it to power up, I took
    >>>> the pc back to the shop where I bought the board and they pulled
    >>>> the wires and re-inserted them. When I got home, I took another
    >>>> look at the manual and spotted that the manufacturer had made 2
    >>>> enormous mistakes in their wiring diagram.
    >>>> Could this be a part of your problem, or possibly quite simply that
    >>>> you have put a connector in the wrong way round?


    --
    boy wonder
    boy wonder, Jul 1, 2003
    #11
  12. Mike Stevenson

    Baron Reeve Guest

    The athlon chip is a piece of garbage. Read this newsgroup read the problems
    look at the equipment description you will see the same thing every time. The
    same thing is the athlon chip.

    Mike Stevenson wrote:

    > This is a long story. I need some help. Big Time. I've put together over a
    > dozen systems in my time, starting from the old 386's up to now an AMD
    > Athlon XP 1800+. But this has me stumped, and is driving me nuts at the same
    > time.
    >
    > About a month ago lightning struck my house in a storm. It damaged several
    > electrical appliances in the house. One was my computer. It managed to burn
    > out my CPU, the MB, and the power supply in my system. And I mean burn,
    > smoke, burn marks, blown fuses, the whole bit. And this was on the end of a
    > surge protecter that was "guarenteed". So I replaced the MB, CPU, and Power
    > Supply. I tested the video card in another system, works fine. I even
    > changed the power cord. Without knowing it tho I had gotten a version of the
    > MB that did not support the Model 8 Athlon. So the MB burned up the new CPU
    > as soon as I started it. Ok setback. I sent away from another MB, this time
    > being more careful, and settled on the Giga-byte GA-7VAX. I sent the CPU to
    > AMD and they sent me back a replacement. So here is the current problem...
    >
    > Without anything plugged into the MB except for the CPU, its fan and
    > heatsink, power button, and system speaker. I cannot get the system to boot.
    > It will come on but just sits there. With a video card installed, it will
    > not display anything. The fans run but nothing. I've tried clearing the BIOS
    > as recommended by the vendor, by removing and then replacing the battery
    > (there is no bios reset jumper on this board). I've tried 2 different video
    > cards, both of which work in the other computer, but still nothing. I've
    > removed, and replaced the RAM. No change at all. The CPU is brand new and
    > straight from AMD. I have trouble believing its bad. I soppose its possible
    > but my God what kind of luck that would be after all this other crap. We've
    > even replaced the wall outlet, tried plugging the system into other spots in
    > the house, NOTHING. I've changed jumpers, putting the MB into CPU
    > auto-detect, and trying it with the multiplier and bus speed set manually.
    > There is nothing currently hooked up from the original system that fried,
    > and it STILL doesn't work. I checked the CPU for signs of physical damage
    > before and a few times after starting it up. Nothing appears to be wrong. Is
    > there anything, anything at all I could be missing? Someone PLEASE help...
    Baron Reeve, Jul 2, 2003
    #12
  13. Mike Stevenson

    Brian H¹© Guest

    X-No-Archive: Yes
    Errrrr...erm... Baron Reeve said:

    > The athlon chip is a piece of garbage. Read this newsgroup read the problems
    > look at the equipment description you will see the same thing every time. The
    > same thing is the athlon chip.


    I beg to differ, admittedly there is a heat problem, but a couple of cheap,
    strategically placed fans, and Bob's your uncle.

    >
    > Mike Stevenson wrote:
    >

    (snip)

    --
    www.absey-vine.co.uk/
    freeware, helpdesk, ad-aware
    Brian H¹©, Jul 2, 2003
    #13
  14. Mike Stevenson

    UKALUM85 Guest

    Perhaps the PS's are not providing enough current to run the chip. Remember
    that voltage times current equals wattage. Checking the voltage will let
    you know if the correct voltage is there, but without checking the current
    draw you don't know if there is enough to drive the chip.


    "Mike Stevenson" <> wrote in message
    news:qchMa.7894$...
    > This is a long story. I need some help. Big Time. I've put together over a
    > dozen systems in my time, starting from the old 386's up to now an AMD
    > Athlon XP 1800+. But this has me stumped, and is driving me nuts at the

    same
    > time.
    >
    > About a month ago lightning struck my house in a storm. It damaged several
    > electrical appliances in the house. One was my computer. It managed to

    burn
    > out my CPU, the MB, and the power supply in my system. And I mean burn,
    > smoke, burn marks, blown fuses, the whole bit. And this was on the end of

    a
    > surge protecter that was "guarenteed". So I replaced the MB, CPU, and

    Power
    > Supply. I tested the video card in another system, works fine. I even
    > changed the power cord. Without knowing it tho I had gotten a version of

    the
    > MB that did not support the Model 8 Athlon. So the MB burned up the new

    CPU
    > as soon as I started it. Ok setback. I sent away from another MB, this

    time
    > being more careful, and settled on the Giga-byte GA-7VAX. I sent the CPU

    to
    > AMD and they sent me back a replacement. So here is the current problem...
    >
    > Without anything plugged into the MB except for the CPU, its fan and
    > heatsink, power button, and system speaker. I cannot get the system to

    boot.
    > It will come on but just sits there. With a video card installed, it will
    > not display anything. The fans run but nothing. I've tried clearing the

    BIOS
    > as recommended by the vendor, by removing and then replacing the battery
    > (there is no bios reset jumper on this board). I've tried 2 different

    video
    > cards, both of which work in the other computer, but still nothing. I've
    > removed, and replaced the RAM. No change at all. The CPU is brand new and
    > straight from AMD. I have trouble believing its bad. I soppose its

    possible
    > but my God what kind of luck that would be after all this other crap.

    We've
    > even replaced the wall outlet, tried plugging the system into other spots

    in
    > the house, NOTHING. I've changed jumpers, putting the MB into CPU
    > auto-detect, and trying it with the multiplier and bus speed set manually.
    > There is nothing currently hooked up from the original system that fried,
    > and it STILL doesn't work. I checked the CPU for signs of physical damage
    > before and a few times after starting it up. Nothing appears to be wrong.

    Is
    > there anything, anything at all I could be missing? Someone PLEASE help...
    >
    >
    UKALUM85, Jul 2, 2003
    #14
  15. Mike Stevenson

    boy wonder Guest

    I still think its brains are fried. No sound, speaker good, no error beeps.
    Lightning has such unpredicable paths through the damaged area.

    UKALUM85 wrote:
    > Perhaps the PS's are not providing enough current to run the chip.
    > Remember that voltage times current equals wattage. Checking the
    > voltage will let you know if the correct voltage is there, but
    > without checking the current draw you don't know if there is enough
    > to drive the chip.
    >
    >
    > "Mike Stevenson" <> wrote in message
    > news:qchMa.7894$...
    >> This is a long story. I need some help. Big Time. I've put together
    >> over a dozen systems in my time, starting from the old 386's up to
    >> now an AMD Athlon XP 1800+. But this has me stumped, and is driving
    >> me nuts at the same time.
    >>
    >> About a month ago lightning struck my house in a storm. It damaged
    >> several electrical appliances in the house. One was my computer. It
    >> managed to burn out my CPU, the MB, and the power supply in my
    >> system. And I mean burn, smoke, burn marks, blown fuses, the whole
    >> bit. And this was on the end of a surge protecter that was
    >> "guarenteed". So I replaced the MB, CPU, and Power Supply. I tested
    >> the video card in another system, works fine. I even changed the
    >> power cord. Without knowing it tho I had gotten a version of the MB
    >> that did not support the Model 8 Athlon. So the MB burned up the new
    >> CPU as soon as I started it. Ok setback. I sent away from another
    >> MB, this time being more careful, and settled on the Giga-byte
    >> GA-7VAX. I sent the CPU to AMD and they sent me back a replacement.
    >> So here is the current problem...
    >>
    >> Without anything plugged into the MB except for the CPU, its fan and
    >> heatsink, power button, and system speaker. I cannot get the system
    >> to boot. It will come on but just sits there. With a video card
    >> installed, it will not display anything. The fans run but nothing.
    >> I've tried clearing the BIOS as recommended by the vendor, by
    >> removing and then replacing the battery (there is no bios reset
    >> jumper on this board). I've tried 2 different video cards, both of
    >> which work in the other computer, but still nothing. I've removed,
    >> and replaced the RAM. No change at all. The CPU is brand new and
    >> straight from AMD. I have trouble believing its bad. I soppose its
    >> possible but my God what kind of luck that would be after all this
    >> other crap. We've even replaced the wall outlet, tried plugging the
    >> system into other spots in the house, NOTHING. I've changed jumpers,
    >> putting the MB into CPU auto-detect, and trying it with the
    >> multiplier and bus speed set manually. There is nothing currently
    >> hooked up from the original system that fried, and it STILL doesn't
    >> work. I checked the CPU for signs of physical damage before and a
    >> few times after starting it up. Nothing appears to be wrong. Is
    >> there anything, anything at all I could be missing? Someone PLEASE
    >> help...


    --
    boy wonder
    boy wonder, Jul 2, 2003
    #15
  16. Hehe you got that right. As far as heat issues I haven't really had them, I
    have several fans and spent a good deal of time researching before I choose
    the heatsink and fan I am using with these chips. The HS is cast aluminum
    with a copper base, and uses a series of 50 or so ridged "rods" that stick
    of from the base. The fan is a high volume 8000 RPM (very noisey bastard), I
    also have a case fan behind it.

    Now as far as the lightning there are only a few items left in the system
    from when the lightning came. Those being the HDD, the CD-ROM (neither are
    currently hooked up) the RAM (which I have tested now, its fine) and the
    video card (which was tested as well and appears fine). The MB, CPU,
    Powersupply, Sound Card, and NIC have all been replaced since then. I am
    basicly working with a new system. The MB was brand new retail, the CPU was
    brand new from AMD. The Powersupply is some brand X-Case and 500W (yes 500).
    I tested all the voltages from the PS going into the system with a
    multi-meter and everything came back good. The CPU COULD be bad, but I
    really doubt it. And I've even tried another CPU and another Video card in
    the system and it still will not boot.

    On the advice of the vendor I cleared the BIOS by leaving the battery out
    for several hours and shorting the pins for clearing the BIOS (there is no
    jumper for that on this board). NOW, instead of cutting off after 5 seconds,
    or staying on and not booting, it cuts off after half a second, and will not
    come back on unless I unplug it and plug it back in.

    I am going to send the MB back if the Vendor will take it. Nothing appears
    to be wrong with it, other than that it wont work for me. I'm done trying to
    fight with it. If I have to I will get another MB, buy a retail AMD CPU, and
    even replace my RAM if it comes to that. Or I may just say screw it all and
    go Intel...

    "boy wonder" <> wrote in message
    news:3f030b9d$0$54849$-pc.org...
    > I still think its brains are fried. No sound, speaker good, no error

    beeps.
    > Lightning has such unpredicable paths through the damaged area.
    >
    > UKALUM85 wrote:
    > > Perhaps the PS's are not providing enough current to run the chip.
    > > Remember that voltage times current equals wattage. Checking the
    > > voltage will let you know if the correct voltage is there, but
    > > without checking the current draw you don't know if there is enough
    > > to drive the chip.
    > >
    > >
    > > "Mike Stevenson" <> wrote in message
    > > news:qchMa.7894$...
    > >> This is a long story. I need some help. Big Time. I've put together
    > >> over a dozen systems in my time, starting from the old 386's up to
    > >> now an AMD Athlon XP 1800+. But this has me stumped, and is driving
    > >> me nuts at the same time.
    > >>
    > >> About a month ago lightning struck my house in a storm. It damaged
    > >> several electrical appliances in the house. One was my computer. It
    > >> managed to burn out my CPU, the MB, and the power supply in my
    > >> system. And I mean burn, smoke, burn marks, blown fuses, the whole
    > >> bit. And this was on the end of a surge protecter that was
    > >> "guarenteed". So I replaced the MB, CPU, and Power Supply. I tested
    > >> the video card in another system, works fine. I even changed the
    > >> power cord. Without knowing it tho I had gotten a version of the MB
    > >> that did not support the Model 8 Athlon. So the MB burned up the new
    > >> CPU as soon as I started it. Ok setback. I sent away from another
    > >> MB, this time being more careful, and settled on the Giga-byte
    > >> GA-7VAX. I sent the CPU to AMD and they sent me back a replacement.
    > >> So here is the current problem...
    > >>
    > >> Without anything plugged into the MB except for the CPU, its fan and
    > >> heatsink, power button, and system speaker. I cannot get the system
    > >> to boot. It will come on but just sits there. With a video card
    > >> installed, it will not display anything. The fans run but nothing.
    > >> I've tried clearing the BIOS as recommended by the vendor, by
    > >> removing and then replacing the battery (there is no bios reset
    > >> jumper on this board). I've tried 2 different video cards, both of
    > >> which work in the other computer, but still nothing. I've removed,
    > >> and replaced the RAM. No change at all. The CPU is brand new and
    > >> straight from AMD. I have trouble believing its bad. I soppose its
    > >> possible but my God what kind of luck that would be after all this
    > >> other crap. We've even replaced the wall outlet, tried plugging the
    > >> system into other spots in the house, NOTHING. I've changed jumpers,
    > >> putting the MB into CPU auto-detect, and trying it with the
    > >> multiplier and bus speed set manually. There is nothing currently
    > >> hooked up from the original system that fried, and it STILL doesn't
    > >> work. I checked the CPU for signs of physical damage before and a
    > >> few times after starting it up. Nothing appears to be wrong. Is
    > >> there anything, anything at all I could be missing? Someone PLEASE
    > >> help...

    >
    > --
    > boy wonder
    >
    >
    >
    Mike Stevenson, Jul 2, 2003
    #16
  17. Mike Stevenson

    Slumpy Guest

    Slumpy, Jul 2, 2003
    #17
  18. Mike Stevenson

    w_tom Guest

    AMD CPU heat not properly connected to heatsink can damage
    motherboard in seconds:
    http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20010917/index.html

    How good is that heatsink? Research should have demanded
    one specification that answers the question: degree C per
    watt. Is that spec provided by the heatsink? Speed of fan
    has little effect on this critical 'degree C per watt' spec.
    What is the rated 'degree C per watt' for that heatsink?

    Lightning damages only because it finds a specific circuit
    through electronics. For example, lightning could have had an
    incoming path through hard drive. But since no outgoing path
    exists, then no hard drive damage. Same would apply to CPU.
    However if power supply was defective when sold (did not
    contain OVP) and if damaged by lightning, then power supply
    could, in turn, damage other components.

    What was the incoming and outgoing path for lightning.
    Everything was exposed to the incoming path. But only those
    transistors that were also in the outgoing path were
    damaged. Adding a new failure mode - AMD CPU without
    heatsink - only complicates the solution.

    System with only CPU, motherboard, power supply, and speaker
    should make noise. No keyboard; no monitor; no mouse; no
    video controller; no Ram; and speaker should still make sound
    if motherboard, CPU, and power supply are functional.

    Of course, if multimeter says power supply voltages are
    good, then you are down to only two possible reasons for
    failure - motherboard and CPU. It is that simple. Also that
    simple is what is and is not damaged by lightning - if you
    first learn the incoming and outgoing path of that surge.


    Mike Stevenson wrote:
    > Hehe you got that right. As far as heat issues I haven't really had them, I
    > have several fans and spent a good deal of time researching before I choose
    > the heatsink and fan I am using with these chips. The HS is cast aluminum
    > with a copper base, and uses a series of 50 or so ridged "rods" that stick
    > of from the base. The fan is a high volume 8000 RPM (very noisey bastard), I
    > also have a case fan behind it.
    >
    > Now as far as the lightning there are only a few items left in the system
    > from when the lightning came. Those being the HDD, the CD-ROM (neither are
    > currently hooked up) the RAM (which I have tested now, its fine) and the
    > video card (which was tested as well and appears fine). The MB, CPU,
    > Powersupply, Sound Card, and NIC have all been replaced since then. I am
    > basicly working with a new system. The MB was brand new retail, the CPU was
    > brand new from AMD. The Powersupply is some brand X-Case and 500W (yes 500).
    > I tested all the voltages from the PS going into the system with a
    > multi-meter and everything came back good. The CPU COULD be bad, but I
    > really doubt it. And I've even tried another CPU and another Video card in
    > the system and it still will not boot.
    >
    > On the advice of the vendor I cleared the BIOS by leaving the battery out
    > for several hours and shorting the pins for clearing the BIOS (there is no
    > jumper for that on this board). NOW, instead of cutting off after 5 seconds,
    > or staying on and not booting, it cuts off after half a second, and will not
    > come back on unless I unplug it and plug it back in.
    >
    > I am going to send the MB back if the Vendor will take it. Nothing appears
    > to be wrong with it, other than that it wont work for me. I'm done trying to
    > fight with it. If I have to I will get another MB, buy a retail AMD CPU, and
    > even replace my RAM if it comes to that. Or I may just say screw it all and
    > go Intel...
    w_tom, Jul 2, 2003
    #18
  19. Mike Stevenson

    boy wonder Guest

    1. What kind of surge protection were you using? There's lots of cheap ones
    out there in KMart land, you weren't using one of those were you? I use a
    heavy duty Isobar with 6 outlets and a couple of different filters. Don't
    know if this would stop a near direct strike, but I would be surprised if it
    didn't.

    2. You use Athlon, a known heat creator, I think 100 deg F, would be ice
    cold even for an Intel, I bet you that's 100 deg C, = 212 deg F, boiling
    point of water.

    3. I haven't seen anything about you using heatsink compound [ heat
    grease ], a vital ingredient if you're using a "hot" CPU type.

    4. You can buy a MB + CPU at Fry's for $60, don't know if there's any where
    you are, but there's bound to be some discount PC Warehouse somewhere near
    you.'

    5. You're description of what you're doing just made me cringe,
    overclocking, gaming, you can't say your pc wasn't raced or abused.

    6. If you want to play games, why not get a Sony Playstation 2 or X Box,
    those systems are designed for game play.

    Mike Stevenson wrote:
    > Now that was damn compelling. I will say in AMD's defense that video
    > was from Sept 2001. One would assume some progress had been made by
    > now. Also the Giga-byte GA-7VAX MB I was using does have the thermal
    > protection diode in place that shuts down the system. I fact I ran
    > into some trouble with it when I first got the system together. It
    > was cutting off every 5 seconds becuase I didn't have the heatsink on
    > tight enough. I'm starting to wonder though...
    >
    > That heatsink has stayed with me since before the lightning. The
    > springs that were part of the mounting screws had started to rust out
    > pretty badly. The humidity had been horrible inside myself for the
    > past 2 months. The computer was only a year old, this was its first
    > summer. I have had 3 other systems in this house but none have been
    > so powerful. The second (still working) system is a Duron, and was
    > bought retail, so has the AMD equiped fan. The system had cut off
    > unexpectedly while running a high intensity game the day before the
    > lightning strike. I had been using CPUIdle to throttle and monitor
    > the CPU temp. It normally ran at 100F and this was with me running
    > Everquest for sometimes 16-20 hours at a time (I was an addict hehe).
    > But while playing Star Wars Galaxies (beta) the temperature kept
    > shooting up as high as 158F. The game would always cut off if it got
    > past 163, and sometimes the system would scratch. The day before it
    > had actually shut down the computer. I just left it off the whole
    > rest of the day. The computer was not actually on when the lightning
    > hit. Only the monitors were. But it was plugged in. Other things in
    > the house were destroyed by the lightning, the caller ID box, my
    > cable modem, and my coffee pot. The next day the power converter for
    > the wireless router/hub shut off. I got a replacement for that and
    > the hub is just fine. Adelphia replaced the cable modem. It was then
    > my computer stopped working, I had assumed it was becuase of the
    > lightning. Why shouldn't I have, with all these other things messed
    > up. I was awake when the lightning hit, I heard it. Sparks flew from
    > a lightbulb in my bedroom BUT DID NOT BREAK THE BULB, that was wild.
    >
    > But after seeing this video and putting in the stuff about my heat
    > problems before the lightning, I'm starting to wonder if I don't need
    > a new heatsink.
    >
    > Thing is...do I get a new MB, and buy a retail AMD that has its own
    > fan and heatsink (I do not overclock, not in this house.) Or go
    > Intel, if you saw that video...
    >
    > I've always been an AMD man, I've been using AMD chips since the 386SX
    > computers. I remember 286s. I grew using 8086s to play tic-tac-toe and
    > Commodore 64s. I hope I'm not now being forced to go Intel becuase
    > AMD chips are simply too delicate heat-wise.
    >
    > "w_tom" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> AMD CPU heat not properly connected to heatsink can damage
    >> motherboard in seconds:
    >> http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20010917/index.html
    >>
    >> How good is that heatsink? Research should have demanded
    >> one specification that answers the question: degree C per
    >> watt. Is that spec provided by the heatsink? Speed of fan
    >> has little effect on this critical 'degree C per watt' spec.
    >> What is the rated 'degree C per watt' for that heatsink?
    >>
    >> Lightning damages only because it finds a specific circuit
    >> through electronics. For example, lightning could have had an
    >> incoming path through hard drive. But since no outgoing path
    >> exists, then no hard drive damage. Same would apply to CPU.
    >> However if power supply was defective when sold (did not
    >> contain OVP) and if damaged by lightning, then power supply
    >> could, in turn, damage other components.
    >>
    >> What was the incoming and outgoing path for lightning.
    >> Everything was exposed to the incoming path. But only those
    >> transistors that were also in the outgoing path were
    >> damaged. Adding a new failure mode - AMD CPU without
    >> heatsink - only complicates the solution.
    >>
    >> System with only CPU, motherboard, power supply, and speaker
    >> should make noise. No keyboard; no monitor; no mouse; no
    >> video controller; no Ram; and speaker should still make sound
    >> if motherboard, CPU, and power supply are functional.
    >>
    >> Of course, if multimeter says power supply voltages are
    >> good, then you are down to only two possible reasons for
    >> failure - motherboard and CPU. It is that simple. Also that
    >> simple is what is and is not damaged by lightning - if you
    >> first learn the incoming and outgoing path of that surge.
    >>
    >>
    >> Mike Stevenson wrote:
    >>> Hehe you got that right. As far as heat issues I haven't really had
    >>> them, I have several fans and spent a good deal of time researching
    >>> before I choose the heatsink and fan I am using with these chips.
    >>> The HS is cast aluminum with a copper base, and uses a series of 50
    >>> or so ridged "rods" that stick of from the base. The fan is a high
    >>> volume 8000 RPM (very noisey bastard), I also have a case fan
    >>> behind it.
    >>>
    >>> Now as far as the lightning there are only a few items left in the
    >>> system from when the lightning came. Those being the HDD, the
    >>> CD-ROM (neither are currently hooked up) the RAM (which I have
    >>> tested now, its fine) and the video card (which was tested as well
    >>> and appears fine). The MB, CPU, Powersupply, Sound Card, and NIC
    >>> have all been replaced since then. I am basicly working with a new
    >>> system. The MB was brand new retail, the CPU was brand new from
    >>> AMD. The Powersupply is some brand X-Case and 500W (yes 500). I
    >>> tested all the voltages from the PS going into the system with a
    >>> multi-meter and everything came back good. The CPU COULD be bad,
    >>> but I really doubt it. And I've even tried another CPU and another
    >>> Video card in the system and it still will not boot.
    >>>
    >>> On the advice of the vendor I cleared the BIOS by leaving the
    >>> battery out for several hours and shorting the pins for clearing
    >>> the BIOS (there is no jumper for that on this board). NOW, instead
    >>> of cutting off after 5 seconds, or staying on and not booting, it
    >>> cuts off after half a second, and will not come back on unless I
    >>> unplug it and plug it back in.
    >>>
    >>> I am going to send the MB back if the Vendor will take it. Nothing
    >>> appears to be wrong with it, other than that it wont work for me.
    >>> I'm done trying to fight with it. If I have to I will get another
    >>> MB, buy a retail AMD CPU, and even replace my RAM if it comes to
    >>> that. Or I may just say screw it all and go Intel...


    --
    boy wonder
    boy wonder, Jul 3, 2003
    #19
  20. 1. The surge protector was a "decent" brand I got from wal-mart. It cost
    about $35, so NOT an el-cheapo.

    2. I am serious about the temp, 100 F was my average when I was just surfing
    or reading email. This was with the benefits of a CPU throttling program,
    the computer sitting near a crack in the wall that poured in cold air during
    the winter and spring, and that high volume 8000 RPM fan and the aluminum
    "ridged rod" heatsink with copper base. I paid almost $80 for that heatsink
    fan combo, and spent nearly 2 months researching before I choose it. Of
    course for $10 more I could have gotten a water cooler but I didn't look
    into those at the time.

    3. Yes I use thermal grease, Arctic Silver 3 to be exact, never an off
    brand.

    4. Cheap is not always better, you usually get what you pay for...

    5. Um who said anything about overclocking...I made it VERY clear I NEVER
    EVER EVER Overclock, I never have and never will. Gaming its a fact, but
    I've been doing that for years and its never been a real problem before. If
    anything I've toned down alot as I've gotten older.

    6. That's a silly assessment the computer is designed to do just about
    anything I want it to, and computers provide gaming with smoother graphics
    and higher quality than can be offered by the gaming systems. The reason for
    this is becuase you can UPGRADE a computer, its not like I can slap a new
    video card in my PS2 anytime I want.

    "boy wonder" <> wrote in message
    news:3f043ae7$0$54854$-pc.org...
    > 1. What kind of surge protection were you using? There's lots of cheap

    ones
    > out there in KMart land, you weren't using one of those were you? I use a
    > heavy duty Isobar with 6 outlets and a couple of different filters. Don't
    > know if this would stop a near direct strike, but I would be surprised if

    it
    > didn't.
    >
    > 2. You use Athlon, a known heat creator, I think 100 deg F, would be ice
    > cold even for an Intel, I bet you that's 100 deg C, = 212 deg F, boiling
    > point of water.
    >
    > 3. I haven't seen anything about you using heatsink compound [ heat
    > grease ], a vital ingredient if you're using a "hot" CPU type.
    >
    > 4. You can buy a MB + CPU at Fry's for $60, don't know if there's any

    where
    > you are, but there's bound to be some discount PC Warehouse somewhere near
    > you.'
    >
    > 5. You're description of what you're doing just made me cringe,
    > overclocking, gaming, you can't say your pc wasn't raced or abused.
    >
    > 6. If you want to play games, why not get a Sony Playstation 2 or X Box,
    > those systems are designed for game play.
    >
    > Mike Stevenson wrote:
    > > Now that was damn compelling. I will say in AMD's defense that video
    > > was from Sept 2001. One would assume some progress had been made by
    > > now. Also the Giga-byte GA-7VAX MB I was using does have the thermal
    > > protection diode in place that shuts down the system. I fact I ran
    > > into some trouble with it when I first got the system together. It
    > > was cutting off every 5 seconds becuase I didn't have the heatsink on
    > > tight enough. I'm starting to wonder though...
    > >
    > > That heatsink has stayed with me since before the lightning. The
    > > springs that were part of the mounting screws had started to rust out
    > > pretty badly. The humidity had been horrible inside myself for the
    > > past 2 months. The computer was only a year old, this was its first
    > > summer. I have had 3 other systems in this house but none have been
    > > so powerful. The second (still working) system is a Duron, and was
    > > bought retail, so has the AMD equiped fan. The system had cut off
    > > unexpectedly while running a high intensity game the day before the
    > > lightning strike. I had been using CPUIdle to throttle and monitor
    > > the CPU temp. It normally ran at 100F and this was with me running
    > > Everquest for sometimes 16-20 hours at a time (I was an addict hehe).
    > > But while playing Star Wars Galaxies (beta) the temperature kept
    > > shooting up as high as 158F. The game would always cut off if it got
    > > past 163, and sometimes the system would scratch. The day before it
    > > had actually shut down the computer. I just left it off the whole
    > > rest of the day. The computer was not actually on when the lightning
    > > hit. Only the monitors were. But it was plugged in. Other things in
    > > the house were destroyed by the lightning, the caller ID box, my
    > > cable modem, and my coffee pot. The next day the power converter for
    > > the wireless router/hub shut off. I got a replacement for that and
    > > the hub is just fine. Adelphia replaced the cable modem. It was then
    > > my computer stopped working, I had assumed it was becuase of the
    > > lightning. Why shouldn't I have, with all these other things messed
    > > up. I was awake when the lightning hit, I heard it. Sparks flew from
    > > a lightbulb in my bedroom BUT DID NOT BREAK THE BULB, that was wild.
    > >
    > > But after seeing this video and putting in the stuff about my heat
    > > problems before the lightning, I'm starting to wonder if I don't need
    > > a new heatsink.
    > >
    > > Thing is...do I get a new MB, and buy a retail AMD that has its own
    > > fan and heatsink (I do not overclock, not in this house.) Or go
    > > Intel, if you saw that video...
    > >
    > > I've always been an AMD man, I've been using AMD chips since the 386SX
    > > computers. I remember 286s. I grew using 8086s to play tic-tac-toe and
    > > Commodore 64s. I hope I'm not now being forced to go Intel becuase
    > > AMD chips are simply too delicate heat-wise.
    > >
    > > "w_tom" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >> AMD CPU heat not properly connected to heatsink can damage
    > >> motherboard in seconds:
    > >> http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20010917/index.html
    > >>
    > >> How good is that heatsink? Research should have demanded
    > >> one specification that answers the question: degree C per
    > >> watt. Is that spec provided by the heatsink? Speed of fan
    > >> has little effect on this critical 'degree C per watt' spec.
    > >> What is the rated 'degree C per watt' for that heatsink?
    > >>
    > >> Lightning damages only because it finds a specific circuit
    > >> through electronics. For example, lightning could have had an
    > >> incoming path through hard drive. But since no outgoing path
    > >> exists, then no hard drive damage. Same would apply to CPU.
    > >> However if power supply was defective when sold (did not
    > >> contain OVP) and if damaged by lightning, then power supply
    > >> could, in turn, damage other components.
    > >>
    > >> What was the incoming and outgoing path for lightning.
    > >> Everything was exposed to the incoming path. But only those
    > >> transistors that were also in the outgoing path were
    > >> damaged. Adding a new failure mode - AMD CPU without
    > >> heatsink - only complicates the solution.
    > >>
    > >> System with only CPU, motherboard, power supply, and speaker
    > >> should make noise. No keyboard; no monitor; no mouse; no
    > >> video controller; no Ram; and speaker should still make sound
    > >> if motherboard, CPU, and power supply are functional.
    > >>
    > >> Of course, if multimeter says power supply voltages are
    > >> good, then you are down to only two possible reasons for
    > >> failure - motherboard and CPU. It is that simple. Also that
    > >> simple is what is and is not damaged by lightning - if you
    > >> first learn the incoming and outgoing path of that surge.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Mike Stevenson wrote:
    > >>> Hehe you got that right. As far as heat issues I haven't really had
    > >>> them, I have several fans and spent a good deal of time researching
    > >>> before I choose the heatsink and fan I am using with these chips.
    > >>> The HS is cast aluminum with a copper base, and uses a series of 50
    > >>> or so ridged "rods" that stick of from the base. The fan is a high
    > >>> volume 8000 RPM (very noisey bastard), I also have a case fan
    > >>> behind it.
    > >>>
    > >>> Now as far as the lightning there are only a few items left in the
    > >>> system from when the lightning came. Those being the HDD, the
    > >>> CD-ROM (neither are currently hooked up) the RAM (which I have
    > >>> tested now, its fine) and the video card (which was tested as well
    > >>> and appears fine). The MB, CPU, Powersupply, Sound Card, and NIC
    > >>> have all been replaced since then. I am basicly working with a new
    > >>> system. The MB was brand new retail, the CPU was brand new from
    > >>> AMD. The Powersupply is some brand X-Case and 500W (yes 500). I
    > >>> tested all the voltages from the PS going into the system with a
    > >>> multi-meter and everything came back good. The CPU COULD be bad,
    > >>> but I really doubt it. And I've even tried another CPU and another
    > >>> Video card in the system and it still will not boot.
    > >>>
    > >>> On the advice of the vendor I cleared the BIOS by leaving the
    > >>> battery out for several hours and shorting the pins for clearing
    > >>> the BIOS (there is no jumper for that on this board). NOW, instead
    > >>> of cutting off after 5 seconds, or staying on and not booting, it
    > >>> cuts off after half a second, and will not come back on unless I
    > >>> unplug it and plug it back in.
    > >>>
    > >>> I am going to send the MB back if the Vendor will take it. Nothing
    > >>> appears to be wrong with it, other than that it wont work for me.
    > >>> I'm done trying to fight with it. If I have to I will get another
    > >>> MB, buy a retail AMD CPU, and even replace my RAM if it comes to
    > >>> that. Or I may just say screw it all and go Intel...

    >
    > --
    > boy wonder
    >
    >
    >
    Mike Stevenson, Jul 3, 2003
    #20
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