Synergy Batteries -- Can anyone comment?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Joel Connor, Jul 6, 2010.

  1. Joel Connor

    Joel Connor Guest

    There's a new type of 1.25v AA battery on the market, using a Lithium
    Polymer configuration (not unlike the flat-pack in my MP3 player, but at a
    different voltage) marketed by a company name of Hahnel.

    A quick cursory search for reviews and discussions seem favorable. With
    good low-temperature performance down to 23° F (-5° C), fast charging
    times, etc.

    Anyone here ever use them and care to comment?

    Comments from the resident role-playing "x-spurts" that don't even own
    cameras are not welcome. Don't worry, we already know who you are.
    Joel Connor, Jul 6, 2010
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Joel Connor

    Pete Guest

    On 2010-07-06 01:25:19 +0100, Joel Connor said:

    > There's a new type of 1.25v AA battery on the market, using a Lithium
    > Polymer configuration (not unlike the flat-pack in my MP3 player, but at a
    > different voltage) marketed by a company name of Hahnel.
    >
    > A quick cursory search for reviews and discussions seem favorable. With
    > good low-temperature performance down to 23° F (-5° C), fast charging
    > times, etc.
    >
    > Anyone here ever use them and care to comment?
    >
    > Comments from the resident role-playing "x-spurts" that don't even own
    > cameras are not welcome. Don't worry, we already know who you are.


    Then, as one poster has already intimated "Never ask a question to
    which you don't already know the answer".

    We are all random Internet posters. Google is statistically more
    definitive, according to the statistics.

    HTH.

    --
    Pete
    Pete, Jul 6, 2010
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Joel Connor

    NGBarfart Guest

    In article <>,
    Joel Connor <> wrote:

    > There's a new type of 1.25v AA battery on the market, using a Lithium
    > Polymer configuration (not unlike the flat-pack in my MP3 player, but at a
    > different voltage) marketed by a company name of Hahnel.
    >
    > A quick cursory search for reviews and discussions seem favorable. With
    > good low-temperature performance down to 23° F (-5° C), fast charging
    > times, etc.
    >
    > Anyone here ever use them and care to comment?
    >
    > Comments from the resident role-playing "x-spurts" that don't even own
    > cameras are not welcome. Don't worry, we already know who you are.


    Hey! Basement mothboy!
    Why should anybody take the bait?
    Once they reply, all you are going to do is jerk off all over this group.

    --
    Just another troll tracker
    NGBarfart, Jul 6, 2010
    #3
  4. Joel Connor

    Joel Connor Guest

    On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 01:37:27 +0100, Pete
    <> wrote:

    >On 2010-07-06 01:25:19 +0100, Joel Connor said:
    >
    >> There's a new type of 1.25v AA battery on the market, using a Lithium
    >> Polymer configuration (not unlike the flat-pack in my MP3 player, but at a
    >> different voltage) marketed by a company name of Hahnel.
    >>
    >> A quick cursory search for reviews and discussions seem favorable. With
    >> good low-temperature performance down to 23° F (-5° C), fast charging
    >> times, etc.
    >>
    >> Anyone here ever use them and care to comment?
    >>
    >> Comments from the resident role-playing "x-spurts" that don't even own
    >> cameras are not welcome. Don't worry, we already know who you are.

    >
    >Then, as one poster has already intimated "Never ask a question to
    >which you don't already know the answer".
    >
    >We are all random Internet posters. Google is statistically more
    >definitive, according to the statistics.
    >
    >HTH.


    Thanks for outing yourself.
    Joel Connor, Jul 6, 2010
    #4
  5. Joel Connor

    Joel Connor Guest

    On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 17:41:42 -0700, NGBarfart <>
    wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > Joel Connor <> wrote:
    >
    >> There's a new type of 1.25v AA battery on the market, using a Lithium
    >> Polymer configuration (not unlike the flat-pack in my MP3 player, but at a
    >> different voltage) marketed by a company name of Hahnel.
    >>
    >> A quick cursory search for reviews and discussions seem favorable. With
    >> good low-temperature performance down to 23° F (-5° C), fast charging
    >> times, etc.
    >>
    >> Anyone here ever use them and care to comment?
    >>
    >> Comments from the resident role-playing "x-spurts" that don't even own
    >> cameras are not welcome. Don't worry, we already know who you are.

    >
    >Hey! Basement mothboy!
    >Why should anybody take the bait?
    >Once they reply, all you are going to do is jerk off all over this group.



    Thanks for outing yourself.
    Joel Connor, Jul 6, 2010
    #5
  6. Joel Connor

    Mike S. Guest

    In article <>,
    Joel Connor <> wrote:
    >
    >There's a new type of 1.25v AA battery on the market, using a Lithium
    >Polymer configuration (not unlike the flat-pack in my MP3 player, but at a
    >different voltage) marketed by a company name of Hahnel.
    >
    >A quick cursory search for reviews and discussions seem favorable. With
    >good low-temperature performance down to 23° F (-5° C), fast charging
    >times, etc.
    >
    >Anyone here ever use them and care to comment?
    >
    >Comments from the resident role-playing "x-spurts" that don't even own
    >cameras are not welcome. Don't worry, we already know who you are.


    No experience, but your teaser sparked me interest and I looked around.
    Unfortunately, the only product under this brand/model I can find is a
    pre-charged NiMH cell ... even at the manufacturer's website
    (http://www.hahnel.ie/index.cfm/page/aamignonbatteries).

    Can you post a reference to a Li-Poly AA product?
    Mike S., Jul 6, 2010
    #6
  7. Joel Connor

    SMS Guest

    On 05/07/10 5:41 PM, NGBarfart wrote:
    > In article<>,
    > Joel Connor<> wrote:
    >
    >> There's a new type of 1.25v AA battery on the market, using a Lithium
    >> Polymer configuration (not unlike the flat-pack in my MP3 player, but at a
    >> different voltage) marketed by a company name of Hahnel.
    >>
    >> A quick cursory search for reviews and discussions seem favorable. With
    >> good low-temperature performance down to 23° F (-5° C), fast charging
    >> times, etc.
    >>
    >> Anyone here ever use them and care to comment?
    >>
    >> Comments from the resident role-playing "x-spurts" that don't even own
    >> cameras are not welcome. Don't worry, we already know who you are.

    >
    > Hey! Basement mothboy!
    > Why should anybody take the bait?
    > Once they reply, all you are going to do is jerk off all over this group.


    Well if our favorite troll was really interested in learning about
    camera batteries he could simply type "nimh versus lithium ion" into the
    Google search box and click on "I'm Feeling Lucky."
    SMS, Jul 6, 2010
    #7
  8. Joel Connor

    Pete Guest

    On 2010-07-06 02:00:26 +0100, Joel Connor said:

    > On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 01:37:27 +0100, Pete
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> On 2010-07-06 01:25:19 +0100, Joel Connor said:
    >>
    >>> There's a new type of 1.25v AA battery on the market, using a Lithium
    >>> Polymer configuration (not unlike the flat-pack in my MP3 player, but at a
    >>> different voltage) marketed by a company name of Hahnel.
    >>>
    >>> A quick cursory search for reviews and discussions seem favorable. With
    >>> good low-temperature performance down to 23° F (-5° C), fast charging
    >>> times, etc.
    >>>
    >>> Anyone here ever use them and care to comment?
    >>>
    >>> Comments from the resident role-playing "x-spurts" that don't even own
    >>> cameras are not welcome. Don't worry, we already know who you are.

    >>
    >> Then, as one poster has already intimated "Never ask a question to
    >> which you don't already know the answer".
    >>
    >> We are all random Internet posters. Google is statistically more
    >> definitive, according to the statistics.
    >>
    >> HTH.

    >
    > Thanks for outing yourself.


    No problem, it was predisposed in the question.

    --
    Pete
    Pete, Jul 6, 2010
    #8
  9. Joel Connor

    Joel Connor Guest

    On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 01:35:19 +0000 (UTC), (Mike S.)
    wrote:

    >
    >In article <>,
    >Joel Connor <> wrote:
    >>
    >>There's a new type of 1.25v AA battery on the market, using a Lithium
    >>Polymer configuration (not unlike the flat-pack in my MP3 player, but at a
    >>different voltage) marketed by a company name of Hahnel.
    >>
    >>A quick cursory search for reviews and discussions seem favorable. With
    >>good low-temperature performance down to 23° F (-5° C), fast charging
    >>times, etc.
    >>
    >>Anyone here ever use them and care to comment?


    >
    >No experience, but your teaser sparked me interest and I looked around.
    >Unfortunately, the only product under this brand/model I can find is a
    >pre-charged NiMH cell ... even at the manufacturer's website
    >(http://www.hahnel.ie/index.cfm/page/aamignonbatteries).
    >
    >Can you post a reference to a Li-Poly AA product?
    >


    I'm getting conflicting information between ads and posts I've read. Such
    as this one from amazon.co.uk

    <http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hahnel-Synergy-AA-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B000LY25WQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1278381027&sr=8-2>
    which states:

    "Product Description
    hahnel Synergy batteries offer a number of advantages over traditional
    alkaline batteries, including up to four times more power when used in a
    digital camera, high performance even at low temperatures (down to 23
    degrees F) during your winter holiday, and a vast cost savings in the long
    run. The Synergy advantages are even more glaring when compared to typical
    NiMH batteries: not only are they ready for use right out of the packet,
    but they generally last longer than most NiMH batteries (continuous and
    frequent recharging can destroy other NiMH models) and save both time and
    money (traditional NiMH charging is slow when you're in a hurry, while
    rapid chargers are expensive). All told, you can recharge these batteries
    up to 500 times without experiencing a memory effect; just charge the
    amount you need and you're set."

    Most are claiming a typical NiMH chemistry. One I had read claiming Li-Poly
    (and can't find that thread now). It could be I read that page too fast and
    confused it for a Li-Poly chemistry. Which had me wondering because Lithium
    chemistry will define 3.7v. Though I couldn't figure out how they got 1.25v
    base voltage from HiMH chemistry either.

    Then there's also the "Mignon" (not Synergy) brand name from Hahnel that
    also claims NiMH chemistry.

    Maybe they're just a new NiMH configuration and not Li-Poly.

    In either case, they seem to be an improvement over the more recently
    popular "Eneloop", "Hybrid", and other "pre-charged" NiMHs out there. The
    rated 1.25v strongly suggests a different chemistry. So I was wondering if
    anyone's been using them and if they perform up to their claims.

    I do a lot of near-arctic-temperature photography at times (down to -44F)
    and any improvement in cold weather performance, as well as reliable
    fast-recharge times, intrigues me.
    Joel Connor, Jul 6, 2010
    #9
  10. Joel Connor

    Joel Connor Guest

    On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:56:30 -0700, SMS <> wrote:

    >On 05/07/10 5:41 PM, NGBarfart wrote:
    >> In article<>,
    >> Joel Connor<> wrote:
    >>
    >>> There's a new type of 1.25v AA battery on the market, using a Lithium
    >>> Polymer configuration (not unlike the flat-pack in my MP3 player, but at a
    >>> different voltage) marketed by a company name of Hahnel.
    >>>
    >>> A quick cursory search for reviews and discussions seem favorable. With
    >>> good low-temperature performance down to 23° F (-5° C), fast charging
    >>> times, etc.
    >>>
    >>> Anyone here ever use them and care to comment?
    >>>
    >>> Comments from the resident role-playing "x-spurts" that don't even own
    >>> cameras are not welcome. Don't worry, we already know who you are.

    >>
    >> Hey! Basement mothboy!
    >> Why should anybody take the bait?
    >> Once they reply, all you are going to do is jerk off all over this group.

    >
    >Well if our favorite troll was really interested in learning about
    >camera batteries he could simply type "nimh versus lithium ion" into the
    >Google search box and click on "I'm Feeling Lucky."


    And if the SMS troll was really interested in being a decent
    pretend-photographer troll, he would know that Li-Ion is not ths same as
    Li-Poly.

    Try again.
    Joel Connor, Jul 6, 2010
    #10
  11. On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 21:18:01 -0500, Joel Connor wrote:

    > On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 01:35:19 +0000 (UTC), (Mike S.)
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>In article <>, Joel Connor
    >><> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>There's a new type of 1.25v AA battery on the market, using a Lithium
    >>>Polymer configuration (not unlike the flat-pack in my MP3 player, but
    >>>at a different voltage) marketed by a company name of Hahnel.
    >>>
    >>>A quick cursory search for reviews and discussions seem favorable. With
    >>>good low-temperature performance down to 23° F (-5° C), fast charging
    >>>times, etc.
    >>>
    >>>Anyone here ever use them and care to comment?

    >
    >
    >>No experience, but your teaser sparked me interest and I looked around.
    >>Unfortunately, the only product under this brand/model I can find is a
    >>pre-charged NiMH cell ... even at the manufacturer's website
    >>(http://www.hahnel.ie/index.cfm/page/aamignonbatteries).
    >>
    >>Can you post a reference to a Li-Poly AA product?
    >>
    >>

    > I'm getting conflicting information between ads and posts I've read.
    > Such as this one from amazon.co.uk
    >
    > <http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hahnel-Synergy-AA-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B000LY25WQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1278381027&sr=8-2>
    > which states:
    >
    > "Product Description
    > hahnel Synergy batteries offer a number of advantages over traditional
    > alkaline batteries, including up to four times more power when used in a
    > digital camera, high performance even at low temperatures (down to 23
    > degrees F) during your winter holiday, and a vast cost savings in the
    > long run. The Synergy advantages are even more glaring when compared to
    > typical NiMH batteries: not only are they ready for use right out of the
    > packet, but they generally last longer than most NiMH batteries
    > (continuous and frequent recharging can destroy other NiMH models) and
    > save both time and money (traditional NiMH charging is slow when you're
    > in a hurry, while rapid chargers are expensive). All told, you can
    > recharge these batteries up to 500 times without experiencing a memory
    > effect; just charge the amount you need and you're set."
    >
    > Most are claiming a typical NiMH chemistry. One I had read claiming
    > Li-Poly (and can't find that thread now). It could be I read that page
    > too fast and confused it for a Li-Poly chemistry. Which had me wondering
    > because Lithium chemistry will define 3.7v. Though I couldn't figure out
    > how they got 1.25v base voltage from HiMH chemistry either.
    >
    > Then there's also the "Mignon" (not Synergy) brand name from Hahnel that
    > also claims NiMH chemistry.
    >
    > Maybe they're just a new NiMH configuration and not Li-Poly.
    >
    > In either case, they seem to be an improvement over the more recently
    > popular "Eneloop", "Hybrid", and other "pre-charged" NiMHs out there.
    > The rated 1.25v strongly suggests a different chemistry. So I was
    > wondering if anyone's been using them and if they perform up to their
    > claims.
    >
    > I do a lot of near-arctic-temperature photography at times (down to
    > -44F) and any improvement in cold weather performance, as well as
    > reliable fast-recharge times, intrigues me.


    We all know you are incapable of judging photographs.

    http://www.arumes.com/temp/nimh.jpg

    --
    Regards, Robert http://www.arumes.com
    Robert Spanjaard, Jul 6, 2010
    #11
  12. On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 21:18:01 -0500, Joel Connor wrote:

    > On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 01:35:19 +0000 (UTC), (Mike S.)
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>In article <>, Joel Connor
    >><> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>There's a new type of 1.25v AA battery on the market, using a Lithium
    >>>Polymer configuration (not unlike the flat-pack in my MP3 player, but
    >>>at a different voltage) marketed by a company name of Hahnel.
    >>>
    >>>A quick cursory search for reviews and discussions seem favorable. With
    >>>good low-temperature performance down to 23° F (-5° C), fast charging
    >>>times, etc.
    >>>
    >>>Anyone here ever use them and care to comment?

    >
    >
    >>No experience, but your teaser sparked me interest and I looked around.
    >>Unfortunately, the only product under this brand/model I can find is a
    >>pre-charged NiMH cell ... even at the manufacturer's website
    >>(http://www.hahnel.ie/index.cfm/page/aamignonbatteries).
    >>
    >>Can you post a reference to a Li-Poly AA product?
    >>
    >>

    > I'm getting conflicting information between ads and posts I've read.
    > Such as this one from amazon.co.uk
    >
    > <http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hahnel-Synergy-AA-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B000LY25WQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1278381027&sr=8-2>
    > which states:
    >
    > "Product Description
    > hahnel Synergy batteries offer a number of advantages over traditional
    > alkaline batteries, including up to four times more power when used in a
    > digital camera, high performance even at low temperatures (down to 23
    > degrees F) during your winter holiday, and a vast cost savings in the
    > long run. The Synergy advantages are even more glaring when compared to
    > typical NiMH batteries: not only are they ready for use right out of the
    > packet, but they generally last longer than most NiMH batteries
    > (continuous and frequent recharging can destroy other NiMH models) and
    > save both time and money (traditional NiMH charging is slow when you're
    > in a hurry, while rapid chargers are expensive). All told, you can
    > recharge these batteries up to 500 times without experiencing a memory
    > effect; just charge the amount you need and you're set."
    >
    > Most are claiming a typical NiMH chemistry. One I had read claiming
    > Li-Poly (and can't find that thread now). It could be I read that page
    > too fast and confused it for a Li-Poly chemistry. Which had me wondering
    > because Lithium chemistry will define 3.7v. Though I couldn't figure out
    > how they got 1.25v base voltage from HiMH chemistry either.
    >
    > Then there's also the "Mignon" (not Synergy) brand name from Hahnel that
    > also claims NiMH chemistry.


    Oh, and Mignon is not a brand name.
    It's just another name for "AA battery".

    --
    Regards, Robert http://www.arumes.com
    Robert Spanjaard, Jul 6, 2010
    #12
  13. Joel Connor

    J. Clarke Guest

    On 7/6/2010 6:53 AM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
    > On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 21:18:01 -0500, Joel Connor wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 01:35:19 +0000 (UTC), (Mike S.)
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> In article<>, Joel Connor
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> There's a new type of 1.25v AA battery on the market, using a Lithium
    >>>> Polymer configuration (not unlike the flat-pack in my MP3 player, but
    >>>> at a different voltage) marketed by a company name of Hahnel.
    >>>>
    >>>> A quick cursory search for reviews and discussions seem favorable. With
    >>>> good low-temperature performance down to 23° F (-5° C), fast charging
    >>>> times, etc.
    >>>>
    >>>> Anyone here ever use them and care to comment?

    >>
    >>
    >>> No experience, but your teaser sparked me interest and I looked around.
    >>> Unfortunately, the only product under this brand/model I can find is a
    >>> pre-charged NiMH cell ... even at the manufacturer's website
    >>> (http://www.hahnel.ie/index.cfm/page/aamignonbatteries).
    >>>
    >>> Can you post a reference to a Li-Poly AA product?
    >>>
    >>>

    >> I'm getting conflicting information between ads and posts I've read.
    >> Such as this one from amazon.co.uk
    >>
    >> <http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hahnel-Synergy-AA-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B000LY25WQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1278381027&sr=8-2>
    >> which states:
    >>
    >> "Product Description
    >> hahnel Synergy batteries offer a number of advantages over traditional
    >> alkaline batteries, including up to four times more power when used in a
    >> digital camera, high performance even at low temperatures (down to 23
    >> degrees F) during your winter holiday, and a vast cost savings in the
    >> long run. The Synergy advantages are even more glaring when compared to
    >> typical NiMH batteries: not only are they ready for use right out of the
    >> packet, but they generally last longer than most NiMH batteries
    >> (continuous and frequent recharging can destroy other NiMH models) and
    >> save both time and money (traditional NiMH charging is slow when you're
    >> in a hurry, while rapid chargers are expensive). All told, you can
    >> recharge these batteries up to 500 times without experiencing a memory
    >> effect; just charge the amount you need and you're set."
    >>
    >> Most are claiming a typical NiMH chemistry. One I had read claiming
    >> Li-Poly (and can't find that thread now). It could be I read that page
    >> too fast and confused it for a Li-Poly chemistry. Which had me wondering
    >> because Lithium chemistry will define 3.7v. Though I couldn't figure out
    >> how they got 1.25v base voltage from HiMH chemistry either.
    >>
    >> Then there's also the "Mignon" (not Synergy) brand name from Hahnel that
    >> also claims NiMH chemistry.

    >
    > Oh, and Mignon is not a brand name.
    > It's just another name for "AA battery".


    There appear to be two "Synergy" battery product lines, one produced by
    Hahnel in Germany and the other by Synergy Digital in Brooklyn, NY. The
    Hahnel product appears to be an Eneloop clone while Synergy appears to
    be importing Chinese-clone OEM-replacement camera batteries.
    J. Clarke, Jul 6, 2010
    #13
  14. In message <>, J. Clarke
    <> writes
    >
    >There appear to be two "Synergy" battery product lines, one produced by
    >Hahnel in Germany and the other by Synergy Digital in Brooklyn, NY.
    >The Hahnel product appears to be an Eneloop clone while Synergy appears
    >to be importing Chinese-clone OEM-replacement camera batteries.


    The Sanyo Eneloop low-discharge NiMH battery technology is being
    licenced more widely nowadays. Initially such cells were sold by
    name-brand battery manufacturers such as Rayovac's "Hybrio" or
    Panasonic's "Infinium". Nowadays I'm seeing more and more online
    suppliers of tech gear such as the British-based Maplin stores offering
    similar low-discharge cells with their own branding (in Maplin's case
    they're called Camelion). I'm guessing that the Synergy cells mentioned
    are the same as everybody else's, run off a single production line and
    only labelled at the end to differentiate them from the other people
    selling such batteries.
    --
    To reply, my gmail address is nojay1 Robert Sneddon
    Robert Sneddon, Jul 6, 2010
    #14
  15. Joel Connor

    SMS Guest

    On 06/07/10 3:53 AM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:

    <snip>

    > Oh, and Mignon is not a brand name.
    > It's just another name for "AA battery".


    I prefer to call the rechargeable AA's HR6 and the non-rechargeable AA's
    LR6. Mignon (which is the French term for an AA battery) is too vague.

    While there are rechargeable Li-Po and Li-Ion cells that are the
    physical size of an R6 cell, (14500), the chemistry yields 3.6-3.7
    volts. There are some devices that can use them because they have a
    DC-DC converter with a very wide input range, but I've never known a
    digital camera that could use them. Even "regular" AA batteries vary
    significantly based on chemistry, from 1.2V to 1.7V, so there has to be
    some accommodation built in.

    There's no real advantage in terms of WH capacity of the 14500 Li-Ion
    and Li-Po cells (versus NiMH), and when sold as an end-user product each
    cell needs it's own protection circuitry built in (as opposed to one set
    of protection circuitry for a multi-cell Li-Ion/Li-Po battery pack). You
    do get the advantage of the low-temperature performance. Of course you
    need a charger that's capable of charging them as well, since a NiMH
    charger won't work.

    The issue is rather moot these days as so few cameras still use AA
    batteries, only the very low end P&S models and a few super-zoom P&S
    models. You can use AA batteries in a lot of D-SLR battery grips, but
    the performance of Li-Ion batteries is so much better that you'd rarely
    do such a thing. Even the "ITMONW" rationalization is rather moot
    because when you come across that 7-11 in the middle of nowhere and buy
    R6 manganese batteries, they work poorly in digital cameras because of
    their high internal resistance.

    I suppose someone could make a 14500 lithium based cell than had an
    internal buck-boost converter/charger so it could have a 1.5V output and
    be chargeable in a NiMH charger, but that would be a pretty ridiculous
    project.
    SMS, Jul 6, 2010
    #15
  16. Joel Connor

    Mike S. Guest

    In article <4c33338e$0$22122$>,
    SMS <> wrote:
    >On 06/07/10 3:53 AM, Robert Spanjaard wrote:
    >
    ><snip>
    >
    >> Oh, and Mignon is not a brand name.
    >> It's just another name for "AA battery".

    >
    >I prefer to call the rechargeable AA's HR6 and the non-rechargeable AA's
    >LR6. Mignon (which is the French term for an AA battery) is too vague.
    >
    >While there are rechargeable Li-Po and Li-Ion cells that are the
    >physical size of an R6 cell, (14500), the chemistry yields 3.6-3.7
    >volts. There are some devices that can use them because they have a
    >DC-DC converter with a very wide input range, but I've never known a
    >digital camera that could use them. Even "regular" AA batteries vary
    >significantly based on chemistry, from 1.2V to 1.7V, so there has to be
    >some accommodation built in.
    >
    >There's no real advantage in terms of WH capacity of the 14500 Li-Ion
    >and Li-Po cells (versus NiMH), and when sold as an end-user product each
    >cell needs it's own protection circuitry built in (as opposed to one set
    >of protection circuitry for a multi-cell Li-Ion/Li-Po battery pack). You
    >do get the advantage of the low-temperature performance. Of course you
    >need a charger that's capable of charging them as well, since a NiMH
    >charger won't work.
    >
    >The issue is rather moot these days as so few cameras still use AA
    >batteries, only the very low end P&S models and a few super-zoom P&S
    >models. You can use AA batteries in a lot of D-SLR battery grips, but
    >the performance of Li-Ion batteries is so much better that you'd rarely
    >do such a thing. Even the "ITMONW" rationalization is rather moot
    >because when you come across that 7-11 in the middle of nowhere and buy
    >R6 manganese batteries, they work poorly in digital cameras because of
    >their high internal resistance.
    >
    >I suppose someone could make a 14500 lithium based cell than had an
    >internal buck-boost converter/charger so it could have a 1.5V output and
    >be chargeable in a NiMH charger, but that would be a pretty ridiculous
    >project.


    My interest in this type of product is for electronic flash. For instance,
    the external flash for my Olympus uses two AA cells. It also takes CR-V3
    primary packs, which deliver much better performance. Unfortunately the
    RCR-V3 (which is basically two 14500's in parallel with special circuit to
    make it look like two AA's in series) are disappointing. Not only do
    reviewers say they last no longer than NiMH, but they can't deliver the
    current necessary to charge a flash and end up dying after the first shot.

    I was hopnig the product described here might be better, but it seems they
    are not what they were described as being.
    Mike S., Jul 6, 2010
    #16
  17. Joel Connor

    SMS Guest

    On 06/07/10 7:37 AM, Mike S. wrote:

    <snip>

    > My interest in this type of product is for electronic flash. For instance,
    > the external flash for my Olympus uses two AA cells. It also takes CR-V3
    > primary packs, which deliver much better performance. Unfortunately the
    > RCR-V3 (which is basically two 14500's in parallel with special circuit to
    > make it look like two AA's in series) are disappointing. Not only do
    > reviewers say they last no longer than NiMH, but they can't deliver the
    > current necessary to charge a flash and end up dying after the first shot.
    >
    > I was hopnig the product described here might be better, but it seems they
    > are not what they were described as being.


    Unfortunately there's no such animal as li-ion or li-po R6 battery, and
    unlikely to be one.

    To me it's annoying to have to use AA batteries for the flash, and BP511
    Li-Ion packs for the camera. I could use AA batteries in the grip, but
    AA NiMH performance is much worse than BP511 performance, and in reality
    the NiMH batteries are no cheaper because BP511 packs are so widely
    available at such low prics. I wish Canon had made their later flashes
    able to use a BP511 or four AA cells. If it can work with four Lithium
    non-rechargeables at 4 x 1.7V = 6.8V then it could certainly have been
    made to work at the 7.4V of a BP511.

    I don't know what they did to the the RCR-V3 to limit the current to the
    point that it can't deliver enough current to charge the flash since
    there's no inherent reason that a 14500 could not deliver enough
    current. I use eneloops in my flash, but it's rather annoying to have to
    carry two different chargers. OTOH I would have an AA charger along for
    other devices anyway on most trips.
    SMS, Jul 6, 2010
    #17
  18. Joel Connor

    Joel Connor Guest

    On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 08:12:48 -0700, SMS <> wrote:

    >On 06/07/10 7:37 AM, Mike S. wrote:
    >
    ><snip>
    >
    >> My interest in this type of product is for electronic flash. For instance,
    >> the external flash for my Olympus uses two AA cells. It also takes CR-V3
    >> primary packs, which deliver much better performance. Unfortunately the
    >> RCR-V3 (which is basically two 14500's in parallel with special circuit to
    >> make it look like two AA's in series) are disappointing. Not only do
    >> reviewers say they last no longer than NiMH, but they can't deliver the
    >> current necessary to charge a flash and end up dying after the first shot.
    >>
    >> I was hopnig the product described here might be better, but it seems they
    >> are not what they were described as being.

    >
    >Unfortunately there's no such animal as li-ion or li-po R6 battery, and
    >unlikely to be one.
    >
    >To me it's annoying to have to use AA batteries for the flash, and BP511
    >Li-Ion packs for the camera. I could use AA batteries in the grip, but
    >AA NiMH performance is much worse than BP511 performance, and in reality
    >the NiMH batteries are no cheaper because BP511 packs are so widely
    >available at such low prics. I wish Canon had made their later flashes
    >able to use a BP511 or four AA cells. If it can work with four Lithium
    >non-rechargeables at 4 x 1.7V = 6.8V then it could certainly have been
    >made to work at the 7.4V of a BP511.
    >
    >I don't know what they did to the the RCR-V3 to limit the current to the
    >point that it can't deliver enough current to charge the flash since
    >there's no inherent reason that a 14500 could not deliver enough
    >current. I use eneloops in my flash, but it's rather annoying to have to
    >carry two different chargers. OTOH I would have an AA charger along for
    >other devices anyway on most trips.


    Now that we've gotten all of pretend-photographer troll SMS's vibrator
    power-source information out of the way ...

    Has anyone used these particular batteries in their cameras and do they
    live up to their claims?
    Joel Connor, Jul 6, 2010
    #18
  19. Joel Connor

    SMS Guest

    On 06/07/10 6:21 AM, Robert Sneddon wrote:
    > In message<>, J. Clarke
    > <> writes
    >>
    >> There appear to be two "Synergy" battery product lines, one produced by
    >> Hahnel in Germany and the other by Synergy Digital in Brooklyn, NY.
    >> The Hahnel product appears to be an Eneloop clone while Synergy appears
    >> to be importing Chinese-clone OEM-replacement camera batteries.

    >
    > The Sanyo Eneloop low-discharge NiMH battery technology is being
    > licenced more widely nowadays.


    Is it being licensed or are other companies just building their
    batteries in a similar manner? What Sanyo did with the eneloop product
    is not rocket science--the technology for reducing self-discharge in
    Nickel based batteries is not new.

    The problem is that same design changes that reduce self-discharge also
    reduce capacity, and we were seeing something similar to megapixel wars
    with mAH wars. People just got fed up enough with self-discharge that
    they were willing to go with eneloop AA cells at 2000mAH versus regular
    NiMH AA cells which have up to 50% greater capacity.

    While the eneloop, and other low self-discharge cells, solve one of the
    major problems with NiMH cells, they still have most of the drawbacks of
    AA cells in general, and NiMH cells in particular.

    More information is available at "http://batterydata.com/".
    SMS, Jul 6, 2010
    #19
  20. In message <4c339148$0$22110$>, SMS
    <> writes
    >On 06/07/10 6:21 AM, Robert Sneddon wrote:


    >> The Sanyo Eneloop low-discharge NiMH battery technology is being
    >> licenced more widely nowadays.

    >
    >Is it being licensed or are other companies just building their
    >batteries in a similar manner?


    AFAIK Sanyo has patents on the methods of making the electrodes and
    internal support structures that reduce the self-discharge rate
    significantly. Unless the other manufacturers have arranged licencing
    then they are open to lawsuits for infringement or they have twiddled
    their designs sufficiently to avoid the legal problems. I've not heard
    anything one way or another.

    > What Sanyo did with the eneloop product is not rocket science--the
    >technology for reducing self-discharge in Nickel based batteries is not
    >new.


    Patent lifespan is 19 years as I recall -- I don't remember seeing low
    -discharge-rate Ni-chemistry cells on the market before much before
    2005.

    >The problem is that same design changes that reduce self-discharge also
    >reduce capacity, and we were seeing something similar to megapixel wars
    >with mAH wars. People just got fed up enough with self-discharge that
    >they were willing to go with eneloop AA cells at 2000mAH versus regular
    >NiMH AA cells which have up to 50% greater capacity.


    I've used high-capacity Ni-chemistry cells in the past but I noticed
    that their self-discharge tended to obviate the claimed extra capacity
    unless I was incredibly diligent about charging them immediately before
    use. In addition the increased capacity never seemed to survive more
    than a dozen or two dozen recharge cycles. I used (and still use) simple
    Ni-battery chargers with limited intelligence which probably didn't
    help. The charge retention of the Eneloops and their successors are a
    great convenience and I make up for the more limited capacity by
    carrying a spare set of similar low-discharge cells along with me. Maybe
    higher-capacity versions of the 1st-gen technology will appear in the
    future, who knows?
    >
    >While the eneloop, and other low self-discharge cells, solve one of the
    >major problems with NiMH cells, they still have most of the drawbacks
    >of AA cells in general, and NiMH cells in particular.


    Still better than Li-chemistry cells with their high self-discharge
    rate, generally limited operating lifespan and their finicky charging
    and temperature requirements. They also don't store well -- I bought a
    laptop once, surplus but still sealed in its box and unopened. The
    brand-new Li battery pack was dead on arrival, failing to take a charge.
    The battery pack had a date code on the case indicating it had been
    built only two years before. Conversely low-discharge N-MH cells come
    precharged and work well even after being stored for over a year as
    tests have proved, with (as I recall) 70% of measured capacity.

    As a data point my first set of Eneloops AA cells are at least three
    years old and still doing sterling service regardless of what kind of
    cheap Ni-chemistry charger I put them in. I have a plethora of
    Li-chemistry batteries for my phone, laptop, one of my cameras etc. and
    they all need their own special charging units since there is no
    "universal" Li-ion battery pack for such commodity devices. Worst case
    out in the field I can swap out my AA and AAA Ni-MH batteries for
    alkalines from a local store, something that is not possible with most
    units powered by Li-chemistry cells.

    >More information is available at "http://batterydata.com/".


    That's your vanity website, yes?
    --
    To reply, my gmail address is nojay1 Robert Sneddon
    Robert Sneddon, Jul 6, 2010
    #20
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