Supplying Windows to Customers

Discussion in 'A+ Certification' started by sAxmAn, Apr 24, 2004.

  1. sAxmAn

    sAxmAn Guest

    I've been in the business of building bespoke PC's for customers for a
    couple of years. Never had a serious complaint about any machine I've built
    so far, but folks often expect me to provide a copy of Windows loaded on the
    system. Since I don't like to deal in pirated OS's, this means I need to get
    a fresh copy for each customer. This adds considerably to the cost of the
    PC as XPpro or 2kpro costs around £100 ($200USD) at the very cheapest for an
    OEM copy from an online store.

    Customers do not understand the benefit of owning their own OS disk, and
    often complain that systems from high street shops come with an OS loaded
    (although no disk is supplied).

    So, my question is, how do I fix it so that I can legally load an OS onto
    the new machines I build, without supplying a fresh OS disk to each
    customer?
    sAxmAn, Apr 24, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Test
    "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    news:ZMjic.59$...
    > I've been in the business of building bespoke PC's for customers for a
    > couple of years. Never had a serious complaint about any machine I've

    built
    > so far, but folks often expect me to provide a copy of Windows loaded on

    the
    > system. Since I don't like to deal in pirated OS's, this means I need to

    get
    > a fresh copy for each customer. This adds considerably to the cost of the
    > PC as XPpro or 2kpro costs around £100 ($200USD) at the very cheapest for

    an
    > OEM copy from an online store.
    >
    > Customers do not understand the benefit of owning their own OS disk, and
    > often complain that systems from high street shops come with an OS loaded
    > (although no disk is supplied).
    >
    > So, my question is, how do I fix it so that I can legally load an OS onto
    > the new machines I build, without supplying a fresh OS disk to each
    > customer?
    >
    >
    >
    Edward A. Weissbard, Apr 24, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. sAxmAn

    Chris L Guest

    You don't. Supply them with their very own disk, adjust your price
    accordingly. Or install linux and let them figure it out. Stay legal and
    legit.

    --
    Chris L
    Chris L, Apr 24, 2004
    #3
  4. sAxmAn

    davemeek Guest

    "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    news:ZMjic.59$...
    > I've been in the business of building bespoke PC's for customers for a
    > couple of years. Never had a serious complaint about any machine I've

    built
    > so far, but folks often expect me to provide a copy of Windows loaded on

    the
    > system. Since I don't like to deal in pirated OS's, this means I need to

    get
    > a fresh copy for each customer. This adds considerably to the cost of the
    > PC as XPpro or 2kpro costs around £100 ($200USD) at the very cheapest for

    an
    > OEM copy from an online store.
    >
    > Customers do not understand the benefit of owning their own OS disk, and
    > often complain that systems from high street shops come with an OS loaded
    > (although no disk is supplied).
    >
    > So, my question is, how do I fix it so that I can legally load an OS onto
    > the new machines I build, without supplying a fresh OS disk to each
    > customer?
    >
    >
    >


    I'm not sure that you can...I was under the impression that you as the
    builder and seller had to buy a license from Microsoft to load the OS on any
    given system. I think that you never REALLY own the software, you just pay
    for the right to install and use said software on a single system, (or a
    separate license for each individual system it is installed on). I have
    never checked but I presume that the individual licenses are fairly
    inexpensive because you are selling the systems the software is going on.
    Read all the print on the certificate you get with the OS. The information
    will also be in the 'preload' contract that you will have to click "okay" to
    before the os will be installed. You can probably get in touch directly with
    Microsoft and inquire them about your intentions. Even though MS brings in
    more profit that most country's GNP annually, they STILL crave your
    business. Give 'em a call!!

    davemeek
    davemeek, Apr 24, 2004
    #4
  5. sAxmAn

    sAxmAn Guest

    Sorry, perhaps I didn't make myself clear. The biggest and most reputable
    computer shops, will sell a computer with the OS loaded, but not supply the
    disk( They will supply a restore disk though in case things go wrong.) They
    will advertise on national TV that such their systems come loaded with (say)
    windows XP Home.

    Clearly, this is a legitimate enterprise. I just want to know how it's all
    agreed.


    "Chris L" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > You don't. Supply them with their very own disk, adjust your price
    > accordingly. Or install linux and let them figure it out. Stay legal and
    > legit.
    >
    > --
    > Chris L
    >
    >
    sAxmAn, Apr 24, 2004
    #5
  6. sAxmAn

    Geoff Guest

    sAxmAn wrote:
    > Sorry, perhaps I didn't make myself clear. The biggest and most
    > reputable computer shops, will sell a computer with the OS loaded,
    > but not supply the disk( They will supply a restore disk though in
    > case things go wrong.) They will advertise on national TV that such
    > their systems come loaded with (say) windows XP Home.
    >
    > Clearly, this is a legitimate enterprise. I just want to know how
    > it's all agreed.
    >


    there are different versions of cd's which i think are basicly
    corp edition
    oem edition
    retail edition

    the corp one doens't need activation, microsoft trusts the dealer (like dell
    or something like that), and the dealer buys in bulk anyway
    the oem ones are for dealers that m$ don't trust/havn't done any deals with,
    you buy copys thru trade channels for your business
    retail ones are high street stores

    the oem ones need activation, and are tied rather heavy to the hardware,
    change too much hardware in that pc, and it won't activate, you have to do a
    phone activation in this case

    retail are same as oem i think, apart from they cost twice as much :)
    Geoff, Apr 24, 2004
    #6
  7. sAxmAn

    Chris L Guest

    Then buy bulk licenses from MS

    --
    Chris L
    Chris L, Apr 24, 2004
    #7
  8. sAxmAn

    Chris L Guest

    That's right. You just "rent" the software from MS.

    --
    Chris L
    Chris L, Apr 24, 2004
    #8
  9. sAxmAn

    Geoff Guest

    Barry Watzman wrote:
    > The corp. version is not sold to a firm that resells computers (such
    > as Dell). Rather, it's for firms (like General Motors) that have
    > hundreds
    > to millions of PCs in their own firm. It's for use on their own PCs
    > only, never to be put on a PC that will be owned by any entity other
    > than the corporation that licenses it directly from Microsoft.
    >
    > There are several variants of "OEM" licenses. Some (for small OEMs)
    > are intended for resale as individual copies, but only with hardware.
    > Some
    > don't do activation but are tied to the BIOS (of large OEMs).
    >
    >



    mm ya sorry my bad, i'm use to calling the preactivated version corp version
    hehe
    the only version he can really buy is oem, or retail ones really though
    ahh stuff it, dam m$ activation crap....:)
    Geoff, Apr 24, 2004
    #9
  10. sAxmAn

    mjohns2 Guest

    There are still places that will sell you Win98. Buy that, let them upgrade
    it themselves.... Or better yet. Tell them to bring in there own Win CD and
    you'll install and "configure" it for them for free.



    "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    news:ZMjic.59$...
    > I've been in the business of building bespoke PC's for customers for a
    > couple of years. Never had a serious complaint about any machine I've

    built
    > so far, but folks often expect me to provide a copy of Windows loaded on

    the
    > system. Since I don't like to deal in pirated OS's, this means I need to

    get
    > a fresh copy for each customer. This adds considerably to the cost of the
    > PC as XPpro or 2kpro costs around £100 ($200USD) at the very cheapest for

    an
    > OEM copy from an online store.
    >
    > Customers do not understand the benefit of owning their own OS disk, and
    > often complain that systems from high street shops come with an OS loaded
    > (although no disk is supplied).
    >
    > So, my question is, how do I fix it so that I can legally load an OS onto
    > the new machines I build, without supplying a fresh OS disk to each
    > customer?
    >
    >
    >
    mjohns2, Apr 24, 2004
    #10
  11. sAxmAn

    sAxmAn Guest

    But this is the whole problem. Basically, PC's these days are dirt cheap.
    And when the big boys can advertise that they will supply a system *with
    windows* but without providing a numbered disk by virtue of some hokey
    legal macinery which still eludes me, this cuts into my ever-decreasing
    profit margin big time. Folks like me have to buy a new OS for each
    customer.

    Thanks for all the replies, but I am still at a loss to understand how it is
    done.



    "mjohns2" <> wrote in message
    news:CPvic.40575$...
    > There are still places that will sell you Win98. Buy that, let them

    upgrade
    > it themselves.... Or better yet. Tell them to bring in there own Win CD

    and
    > you'll install and "configure" it for them for free.
    >
    >
    >
    > "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    > news:ZMjic.59$...
    > > I've been in the business of building bespoke PC's for customers for a
    > > couple of years. Never had a serious complaint about any machine I've

    > built
    > > so far, but folks often expect me to provide a copy of Windows loaded on

    > the
    > > system. Since I don't like to deal in pirated OS's, this means I need to

    > get
    > > a fresh copy for each customer. This adds considerably to the cost of

    the
    > > PC as XPpro or 2kpro costs around £100 ($200USD) at the very cheapest

    for
    > an
    > > OEM copy from an online store.
    > >
    > > Customers do not understand the benefit of owning their own OS disk, and
    > > often complain that systems from high street shops come with an OS

    loaded
    > > (although no disk is supplied).
    > >
    > > So, my question is, how do I fix it so that I can legally load an OS

    onto
    > > the new machines I build, without supplying a fresh OS disk to each
    > > customer?
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    sAxmAn, Apr 25, 2004
    #11
  12. "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    news:YADic.510$M_1.165@newsfe1-win...
    > But this is the whole problem. Basically, PC's these days are dirt cheap.
    > And when the big boys can advertise that they will supply a system *with
    > windows* but without providing a numbered disk by virtue of some hokey
    > legal macinery which still eludes me, this cuts into my ever-decreasing
    > profit margin big time. Folks like me have to buy a new OS for each
    > customer.
    >
    > Thanks for all the replies, but I am still at a loss to understand how it

    is
    > done.


    Well, it sounds like they're just not including the Windows disk or they've
    thrown it on some recovery disk. They've obviously paid for the liscense
    somehow. If you're buying Windows in bulk, I'm sure Microsoft offers some
    kind of a discount.
    Patrick Michael, Apr 25, 2004
    #12
  13. On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 02:54:51 -0400, "SBFan2000"
    <> wrote:

    >Doesn't it seem like they could be sent one disk and then just use it to
    >install windows on all of their machines and then just buy a license
    >(number) for each computer. After all, the disk itself doesn't give you the
    >right to use windows the license number does.
    >


    I think it does (or did) work that way with some software, but I don't
    know about an OS.

    Tom

    >
    >"Patrick Michael" <> wrote in message
    >news:HXEic.51473$bl.24556@okepread03...
    >>
    >> "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    >> news:YADic.510$M_1.165@newsfe1-win...
    >> > But this is the whole problem. Basically, PC's these days are dirt

    >cheap.
    >> > And when the big boys can advertise that they will supply a system *with
    >> > windows* but without providing a numbered disk by virtue of some hokey
    >> > legal macinery which still eludes me, this cuts into my ever-decreasing
    >> > profit margin big time. Folks like me have to buy a new OS for each
    >> > customer.
    >> >
    >> > Thanks for all the replies, but I am still at a loss to understand how

    >it
    >> is
    >> > done.

    >>
    >> Well, it sounds like they're just not including the Windows disk or

    >they've
    >> thrown it on some recovery disk. They've obviously paid for the liscense
    >> somehow. If you're buying Windows in bulk, I'm sure Microsoft offers some
    >> kind of a discount.
    >>
    >>

    >
    Tom MacIntyre, Apr 25, 2004
    #13
  14. sAxmAn

    techshare Guest

    Pointless question. You are WRONG to assume there is any legal path to
    selling PC's with Windows without buying the LICENSE. If a company sells a
    PC with no disk ... of course they MUST have purchased a license
    (technically attach the OEM key sticker to the side of the machine for XP).
    If the "high street shops" are doing anything else.. then they are running
    illegal. Your choice ... but folks like me look out for others who get the
    nice "advantage" of selling a machine with Windows for "free" ... the same
    way a cop looks out for people that sell stolen goods for "free".
    "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    news:ZMjic.59$...
    > I've been in the business of building bespoke PC's for customers for a
    > couple of years. Never had a serious complaint about any machine I've

    built
    > so far, but folks often expect me to provide a copy of Windows loaded on

    the
    > system. Since I don't like to deal in pirated OS's, this means I need to

    get
    > a fresh copy for each customer. This adds considerably to the cost of the
    > PC as XPpro or 2kpro costs around £100 ($200USD) at the very cheapest for

    an
    > OEM copy from an online store.
    >
    > Customers do not understand the benefit of owning their own OS disk, and
    > often complain that systems from high street shops come with an OS loaded
    > (although no disk is supplied).
    >
    > So, my question is, how do I fix it so that I can legally load an OS onto
    > the new machines I build, without supplying a fresh OS disk to each
    > customer?
    >
    >
    >
    techshare, Apr 27, 2004
    #14
  15. sAxmAn

    sAxmAn Guest

    This is getting out of hand. More like Chinese Whispers with every post.

    I have made no assumptions whatever. My question, as stated in my original
    post which started this thread, is how is it possible for the big companies
    to sell machines loaded with windows legally, but without supplying the
    disk? Ask PC World or Tiny if a Windows disk is included in the cost of teir
    PC's.

    If customers really are paying for a Windows licence in the purchase price
    of the PC but without actually receiving the disk, they are inded being
    swindled. So this has got nothing to do with OEM stickers. If you have
    bought an OEM copy of Windows, then you are entitled to an OEM disk.

    It is utter rubbish to say the hight street shops are "running illegal".
    We are talking about listed public companies here.

    Then you wrote:
    Your choice ... but folks like me look out for others who get the
    > nice "advantage" of selling a machine with Windows for "free" ... the same
    > way a cop looks out for people that sell stolen goods for "free".


    Again, if you had bothered to read my original post, you will have seen that
    I wrote that I don not care to deal in pirated OS's. So keep you fuckin'
    snide remarks to yourself.

    I wish people could be bothered to read the whole thread before they send
    their half-thought-through remarks.




    "techshare" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Pointless question. You are WRONG to assume there is any legal path to
    > selling PC's with Windows without buying the LICENSE. If a company sells a
    > PC with no disk ... of course they MUST have purchased a license
    > (technically attach the OEM key sticker to the side of the machine for

    XP).
    > If the "high street shops" are doing anything else.. then they are running
    > illegal. Your choice ... but folks like me look out for others who get the
    > nice "advantage" of selling a machine with Windows for "free" ... the same
    > way a cop looks out for people that sell stolen goods for "free".
    > "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    > news:ZMjic.59$...
    > > I've been in the business of building bespoke PC's for customers for a
    > > couple of years. Never had a serious complaint about any machine I've

    > built
    > > so far, but folks often expect me to provide a copy of Windows loaded on

    > the
    > > system. Since I don't like to deal in pirated OS's, this means I need to

    > get
    > > a fresh copy for each customer. This adds considerably to the cost of

    the
    > > PC as XPpro or 2kpro costs around £100 ($200USD) at the very cheapest

    for
    > an
    > > OEM copy from an online store.
    > >
    > > Customers do not understand the benefit of owning their own OS disk, and
    > > often complain that systems from high street shops come with an OS

    loaded
    > > (although no disk is supplied).
    > >
    > > So, my question is, how do I fix it so that I can legally load an OS

    onto
    > > the new machines I build, without supplying a fresh OS disk to each
    > > customer?
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    sAxmAn, Apr 28, 2004
    #15
  16. sAxmAn

    techshare Guest

    ....and you are about as sharp as a pound of butter. You are talking nonsense
    and not listening to any of the replies to your pointless original post. I
    say it's pointless because the license isn't everything .. it's the ONLY
    thing. Why are you arguing about the sky being blue?! WTF are you babbling
    about diskettes for?! They cost pennies. What about the installation
    software?! Ummm.. I know of no "publicly traded" company that sells PC's
    with no customer access to a restoration CD OR a Windows (or other OS)
    distribution. It's pretty much a standard. I've seen some (HP) go so far as
    to make the customer create the restore CD's with a CDR. What, you don't
    like this? Boo hoo... do what I did and build a machine. Brand name machines
    are 98% crap anyway!

    The only "rubbish" here is your post ... and I'll put my snide remarks in
    wherever I want. Make some sense if you don't want them.
    "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    news:ndDjc.16$...
    > This is getting out of hand. More like Chinese Whispers with every post.
    >
    > I have made no assumptions whatever. My question, as stated in my original
    > post which started this thread, is how is it possible for the big

    companies
    > to sell machines loaded with windows legally, but without supplying the
    > disk? Ask PC World or Tiny if a Windows disk is included in the cost of

    teir
    > PC's.
    >
    > If customers really are paying for a Windows licence in the purchase price
    > of the PC but without actually receiving the disk, they are inded being
    > swindled. So this has got nothing to do with OEM stickers. If you have
    > bought an OEM copy of Windows, then you are entitled to an OEM disk.
    >
    > It is utter rubbish to say the hight street shops are "running illegal".
    > We are talking about listed public companies here.
    >
    > Then you wrote:
    > Your choice ... but folks like me look out for others who get the
    > > nice "advantage" of selling a machine with Windows for "free" ... the

    same
    > > way a cop looks out for people that sell stolen goods for "free".

    >
    > Again, if you had bothered to read my original post, you will have seen

    that
    > I wrote that I don not care to deal in pirated OS's. So keep you fuckin'
    > snide remarks to yourself.
    >
    > I wish people could be bothered to read the whole thread before they send
    > their half-thought-through remarks.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "techshare" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Pointless question. You are WRONG to assume there is any legal path to
    > > selling PC's with Windows without buying the LICENSE. If a company sells

    a
    > > PC with no disk ... of course they MUST have purchased a license
    > > (technically attach the OEM key sticker to the side of the machine for

    > XP).
    > > If the "high street shops" are doing anything else.. then they are

    running
    > > illegal. Your choice ... but folks like me look out for others who get

    the
    > > nice "advantage" of selling a machine with Windows for "free" ... the

    same
    > > way a cop looks out for people that sell stolen goods for "free".
    > > "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    > > news:ZMjic.59$...
    > > > I've been in the business of building bespoke PC's for customers for a
    > > > couple of years. Never had a serious complaint about any machine I've

    > > built
    > > > so far, but folks often expect me to provide a copy of Windows loaded

    on
    > > the
    > > > system. Since I don't like to deal in pirated OS's, this means I need

    to
    > > get
    > > > a fresh copy for each customer. This adds considerably to the cost of

    > the
    > > > PC as XPpro or 2kpro costs around £100 ($200USD) at the very cheapest

    > for
    > > an
    > > > OEM copy from an online store.
    > > >
    > > > Customers do not understand the benefit of owning their own OS disk,

    and
    > > > often complain that systems from high street shops come with an OS

    > loaded
    > > > (although no disk is supplied).
    > > >
    > > > So, my question is, how do I fix it so that I can legally load an OS

    > onto
    > > > the new machines I build, without supplying a fresh OS disk to each
    > > > customer?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    techshare, Apr 28, 2004
    #16
  17. sAxmAn

    sAxmAn Guest

    There was nothing pointless in my post. It is a legitimate question. How
    can I be talking nonsense by asking a question? Ummm.

    It is true that the Companies I have been referring to do generally supply a
    restore disk. But what on God's earth use is restore disk if you need to
    format the HDD and reinstall the OS? Or if you need it for the insatllation
    of a new device? Or if you want to install optional windows components?
    What if you want to expand a CAB file to repair a damaged dll?

    You'r right about one thing - brand machines are mostly crap. That's why I
    build my own and earn a living by building them for other people, as I said
    here previously. Many, many times I have turned up on site to do a repair
    or install a device which requires the OS disk. The customer invariably does
    not have a disk, not because they have lost it but because they never had it
    in the first place. They show me all the paperwork that came with their
    machines and there is no hint of any licence - sometimes just a restore
    disk. No use at all unless you want tot return the machine to its factory
    state.

    I say again, it is utter rubbish to suggest that the big chains are
    supplying illegal copies of Windows. PC World (massive retail warehouse
    stores throughout Britain), Time, Tiny, Novatech????

    So I ask again. What is the legal machinery whrereby the big players supply
    machines loaded with windows but without supplying an OS disk? If it is
    down to a licence, then what kind of licence? And if the OS is truly
    licenced in the customer's hands, then why not supply the disk? As you say,
    they cost pennies.




    "techshare" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > ...and you are about as sharp as a pound of butter. You are talking

    nonsense
    > and not listening to any of the replies to your pointless original post. I
    > say it's pointless because the license isn't everything .. it's the ONLY
    > thing. Why are you arguing about the sky being blue?! WTF are you babbling
    > about diskettes for?! They cost pennies. What about the installation
    > software?! Ummm.. I know of no "publicly traded" company that sells PC's
    > with no customer access to a restoration CD OR a Windows (or other OS)
    > distribution. It's pretty much a standard. I've seen some (HP) go so far

    as
    > to make the customer create the restore CD's with a CDR. What, you don't
    > like this? Boo hoo... do what I did and build a machine. Brand name

    machines
    > are 98% crap anyway!
    >
    > The only "rubbish" here is your post ... and I'll put my snide remarks in
    > wherever I want. Make some sense if you don't want them.
    > "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    > news:ndDjc.16$...
    > > This is getting out of hand. More like Chinese Whispers with every

    post.
    > >
    > > I have made no assumptions whatever. My question, as stated in my

    original
    > > post which started this thread, is how is it possible for the big

    > companies
    > > to sell machines loaded with windows legally, but without supplying the
    > > disk? Ask PC World or Tiny if a Windows disk is included in the cost of

    > teir
    > > PC's.
    > >
    > > If customers really are paying for a Windows licence in the purchase

    price
    > > of the PC but without actually receiving the disk, they are inded being
    > > swindled. So this has got nothing to do with OEM stickers. If you have
    > > bought an OEM copy of Windows, then you are entitled to an OEM disk.
    > >
    > > It is utter rubbish to say the hight street shops are "running

    illegal".
    > > We are talking about listed public companies here.
    > >
    > > Then you wrote:
    > > Your choice ... but folks like me look out for others who get the
    > > > nice "advantage" of selling a machine with Windows for "free" ... the

    > same
    > > > way a cop looks out for people that sell stolen goods for "free".

    > >
    > > Again, if you had bothered to read my original post, you will have seen

    > that
    > > I wrote that I don not care to deal in pirated OS's. So keep you

    fuckin'
    > > snide remarks to yourself.
    > >
    > > I wish people could be bothered to read the whole thread before they

    send
    > > their half-thought-through remarks.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "techshare" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > Pointless question. You are WRONG to assume there is any legal path to
    > > > selling PC's with Windows without buying the LICENSE. If a company

    sells
    > a
    > > > PC with no disk ... of course they MUST have purchased a license
    > > > (technically attach the OEM key sticker to the side of the machine for

    > > XP).
    > > > If the "high street shops" are doing anything else.. then they are

    > running
    > > > illegal. Your choice ... but folks like me look out for others who get

    > the
    > > > nice "advantage" of selling a machine with Windows for "free" ... the

    > same
    > > > way a cop looks out for people that sell stolen goods for "free".
    > > > "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:ZMjic.59$...
    > > > > I've been in the business of building bespoke PC's for customers for

    a
    > > > > couple of years. Never had a serious complaint about any machine

    I've
    > > > built
    > > > > so far, but folks often expect me to provide a copy of Windows

    loaded
    > on
    > > > the
    > > > > system. Since I don't like to deal in pirated OS's, this means I

    need
    > to
    > > > get
    > > > > a fresh copy for each customer. This adds considerably to the cost

    of
    > > the
    > > > > PC as XPpro or 2kpro costs around £100 ($200USD) at the very

    cheapest
    > > for
    > > > an
    > > > > OEM copy from an online store.
    > > > >
    > > > > Customers do not understand the benefit of owning their own OS disk,

    > and
    > > > > often complain that systems from high street shops come with an OS

    > > loaded
    > > > > (although no disk is supplied).
    > > > >
    > > > > So, my question is, how do I fix it so that I can legally load an OS

    > > onto
    > > > > the new machines I build, without supplying a fresh OS disk to each
    > > > > customer?
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    sAxmAn, Apr 28, 2004
    #17
  18. sAxmAn

    Sckott Guest

    On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:42:33 +0100, "sAxmAn" <>
    wrote:

    >It is true that the Companies I have been referring to do generally supply a
    >restore disk. But what on God's earth use is restore disk if you need to
    >format the HDD and reinstall the OS? Or if you need it for the insatllation
    >of a new device? Or if you want to install optional windows components?
    >What if you want to expand a CAB file to repair a damaged dll?


    Maybe I can help. Honestly, you might be misinformed.

    At this time, the majors are at a mix to how they present a "restore"
    or "reload" for the computer for thier customers. Every brand and even
    MODEL inside each brand are treated differently in many respects.

    Dells and some Gateways - They give you an actual OS CD with drivers
    and applications seperate. Most everyone selling laptops right now,
    same thing too. The head installer will only permit installtion on the
    PC it was made for. The Windows XP CD is OEM almost every time with
    the single license on the single PC, as a sticker. Being XP, even on a
    CD, the install can only be registered once, as we all know, to one
    PC.

    The rest of them are still in the middle because some DO give you a
    restore set o' CDs, some of them give you an activateable partition on
    the HD that format/restores the machine at will, the rest, usually
    small companies - leave you with nada...just the license. Customer
    caviat emptor, especially with these stupid HSN PCs people snarf up
    like ice cream with shoddy support.

    AFA trying to reconstitute a .dll file from a CAB, unless the customer
    has the "full-on" Windows CD and license, there's really no legal way
    to get around it. Do you want to go pull out YOUR copy of XP out of
    your bag and start fooling with illegalities? Hey bud, that's not the
    customer's CD...and you can't give anyone false sense of securities
    when a client/customer has no disc themselves. Even though it seems
    right to do, don't be a martyr. If it's illegal, even if the customer
    bought the computer from you, don't do it. Or they'll want you to do
    bad things all the time.

    Which brings the point, the customer usually has no clue about it, but
    the way they are left with licensing wholly depends on the OEM who
    built the machine. That's the magic of OEM. Microsoft doesn't want to
    hear about Mrs. Smuckenfuss' HP Pavilion. It's up to the
    builder/system manufacturer to provide support and even Windows
    XP/98/NT CDs. In this case, she's calling HP instead for example.

    How do the majors get away with "stuffing" PCs with Windows and not
    rendering actual CDs to reload? Easy. The product either HAS the
    Windows licence and CD built into the purchase price or it doesn't.
    Trust me, when Compaq and others are selling desktops without any
    outside restore, it's because the purchase price did NOT include
    exclusive CD and licence accountability. If this person sinks in the
    quagmire of online and phone support, it's up to...let's say...Compaq
    to render the discs then or make the customer BUY them.

    Again, if the price for the cds wasn't in the PC originally, the
    manufacturer or builder has every right to charge you for OS or
    restore discs. Because they didn't buy them the 1st time.

    But what about actual WINDOWS XP CDS for example? What if only a
    repair needs to be done?

    Again, in most cases, the manufactuer only anticipates, to save money,
    that an automated restore would be the easy way for a customer or "IT
    guy" to fix the situation. In these cases, don't be a hero and try to
    pull out your own copy of XP. If the customer only has a HD or CD
    Image type of restore, use it after you find a backup solution for
    important data. Sorry.


    >You'r right about one thing - brand machines are mostly crap. That's why I
    >build my own and earn a living by building them for other people, as I said
    >here previously. Many, many times I have turned up on site to do a repair
    >or install a device which requires the OS disk. The customer invariably does
    >not have a disk, not because they have lost it but because they never had it
    >in the first place. They show me all the paperwork that came with their
    >machines and there is no hint of any licence - sometimes just a restore
    >disk. No use at all unless you want tot return the machine to its factory
    >state.


    I can't say, with over 10 years of experience with all of the major
    brands, that all of the brand machines are crap...but I agree with
    them being made cheaply to be sold cheaply. If there's a way for Dell
    to save 45 cents on a DVD drive, multiply that by over 10,000 machines
    a week, and the obvious is much more clearer. No one wins unless you
    can make a sub-$500 machine stuffed with software. And even the
    software on these cheap machines are hidden advertising. I mean, do
    you think Compaq or Dell would sell you a $500 PC without trying to
    recap the costs they've slimmed down to a grain of rice? Hell no.
    They'll throw in trial-ware, and get paid that way. Sad that the
    customers only look at price and they don't know how to do research on
    these machines they know little about.

    The majors don't make a hell of a lot of money per machine. They make
    money on extended support. That only makes sense. People calling with
    problems cost money in-warranty. Out of warranty, it makes money.

    I don't know about " No use at all unless you want tot return the
    machine to its factory state". It might sound reluctant, but the truth
    is, if they don't possess any licensing or CD on site, forgettaboutit.
    Having a restore position at all is a nice thing than having nothing
    at all.

    >I say again, it is utter rubbish to suggest that the big chains are
    >supplying illegal copies of Windows. PC World (massive retail warehouse
    >stores throughout Britain), Time, Tiny, Novatech????


    Again, a PC manufacturer can stuff PCs with Windows and no CD or
    restore. Why? If you're the OEM, it's your responsibility to service
    the customer - not MS. You can do the same too, but you may have to
    buy bulk licenses at over 100 or more and additionally, have to take
    the brunt of the support that comes as a backlash via the
    clients/customers. The majors can afford that time and money to an
    extent (they all have to make budget - even by IT people on the
    lines). For the little guy, it's much easier to build a PC yourself
    and put the cost of OEM lic & CD right to the customer through the
    bottom line. Make them aware they cannot lose the disc(s), else lose
    the support they'll want from you down the line.

    >So I ask again. What is the legal machinery whrereby the big players supply
    >machines loaded with windows but without supplying an OS disk? If it is
    >down to a licence, then what kind of licence? And if the OS is truly
    >licenced in the customer's hands, then why not supply the disk? As you say,
    >they cost pennies.


    The discs cost pennies to Microsoft. To the little guy, the discs
    themselves cost more money. To customers, even more as a markup. And
    again, the majors CAN afford stuffing machines with an OS and selling
    it. Because the low cost of the license they pay directly effects the
    price, and non IT people buy these machines up like peanuts, save for
    their sanity when support is as shoddy as their way OUT of a bad
    situation including format/restore.

    So in the case of the PC with no restore discs, OS CD and license,
    when they come in to see me to repair the OS, I have to turn them away
    because I would have to use THEIR OS load which they don't have. I may
    lose a customer, but I'm certainly not going to load them illegally
    and accept that they'll come to me again to pay me to do things
    blatently illegal...

    Stay legal, stay in business. To the ones who don't and do devious
    things, trust me - They GET theirs in the end.

    Hope this helps. Sounds funny, but it's true.

    -Sckott


    >
    >
    >
    >"techshare" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> ...and you are about as sharp as a pound of butter. You are talking

    >nonsense
    >> and not listening to any of the replies to your pointless original post. I
    >> say it's pointless because the license isn't everything .. it's the ONLY
    >> thing. Why are you arguing about the sky being blue?! WTF are you babbling
    >> about diskettes for?! They cost pennies. What about the installation
    >> software?! Ummm.. I know of no "publicly traded" company that sells PC's
    >> with no customer access to a restoration CD OR a Windows (or other OS)
    >> distribution. It's pretty much a standard. I've seen some (HP) go so far

    >as
    >> to make the customer create the restore CD's with a CDR. What, you don't
    >> like this? Boo hoo... do what I did and build a machine. Brand name

    >machines
    >> are 98% crap anyway!
    >>
    >> The only "rubbish" here is your post ... and I'll put my snide remarks in
    >> wherever I want. Make some sense if you don't want them.
    >> "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    >> news:ndDjc.16$...
    >> > This is getting out of hand. More like Chinese Whispers with every

    >post.
    >> >
    >> > I have made no assumptions whatever. My question, as stated in my

    >original
    >> > post which started this thread, is how is it possible for the big

    >> companies
    >> > to sell machines loaded with windows legally, but without supplying the
    >> > disk? Ask PC World or Tiny if a Windows disk is included in the cost of

    >> teir
    >> > PC's.
    >> >
    >> > If customers really are paying for a Windows licence in the purchase

    >price
    >> > of the PC but without actually receiving the disk, they are inded being
    >> > swindled. So this has got nothing to do with OEM stickers. If you have
    >> > bought an OEM copy of Windows, then you are entitled to an OEM disk.
    >> >
    >> > It is utter rubbish to say the hight street shops are "running

    >illegal".
    >> > We are talking about listed public companies here.
    >> >
    >> > Then you wrote:
    >> > Your choice ... but folks like me look out for others who get the
    >> > > nice "advantage" of selling a machine with Windows for "free" ... the

    >> same
    >> > > way a cop looks out for people that sell stolen goods for "free".
    >> >
    >> > Again, if you had bothered to read my original post, you will have seen

    >> that
    >> > I wrote that I don not care to deal in pirated OS's. So keep you

    >fuckin'
    >> > snide remarks to yourself.
    >> >
    >> > I wish people could be bothered to read the whole thread before they

    >send
    >> > their half-thought-through remarks.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > "techshare" <> wrote in message
    >> > news:...
    >> > > Pointless question. You are WRONG to assume there is any legal path to
    >> > > selling PC's with Windows without buying the LICENSE. If a company

    >sells
    >> a
    >> > > PC with no disk ... of course they MUST have purchased a license
    >> > > (technically attach the OEM key sticker to the side of the machine for
    >> > XP).
    >> > > If the "high street shops" are doing anything else.. then they are

    >> running
    >> > > illegal. Your choice ... but folks like me look out for others who get

    >> the
    >> > > nice "advantage" of selling a machine with Windows for "free" ... the

    >> same
    >> > > way a cop looks out for people that sell stolen goods for "free".
    >> > > "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    >> > > news:ZMjic.59$...
    >> > > > I've been in the business of building bespoke PC's for customers for

    >a
    >> > > > couple of years. Never had a serious complaint about any machine

    >I've
    >> > > built
    >> > > > so far, but folks often expect me to provide a copy of Windows

    >loaded
    >> on
    >> > > the
    >> > > > system. Since I don't like to deal in pirated OS's, this means I

    >need
    >> to
    >> > > get
    >> > > > a fresh copy for each customer. This adds considerably to the cost

    >of
    >> > the
    >> > > > PC as XPpro or 2kpro costs around £100 ($200USD) at the very

    >cheapest
    >> > for
    >> > > an
    >> > > > OEM copy from an online store.
    >> > > >
    >> > > > Customers do not understand the benefit of owning their own OS disk,

    >> and
    >> > > > often complain that systems from high street shops come with an OS
    >> > loaded
    >> > > > (although no disk is supplied).
    >> > > >
    >> > > > So, my question is, how do I fix it so that I can legally load an OS
    >> > onto
    >> > > > the new machines I build, without supplying a fresh OS disk to each
    >> > > > customer?
    >> > > >
    >> > > >
    >> > > >
    >> > >
    >> > >
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >>

    >
    Sckott, Apr 28, 2004
    #18
  19. sAxmAn

    sAxmAn Guest

    Thanks for detailed reply. This has been very helpful. Guess I'll just
    stay doing what I do already - buy a separate OS for each customer and hope
    they can understand the benefit of owning it.


    <Sckott> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:42:33 +0100, "sAxmAn" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >It is true that the Companies I have been referring to do generally

    supply a
    > >restore disk. But what on God's earth use is restore disk if you need to
    > >format the HDD and reinstall the OS? Or if you need it for the

    insatllation
    > >of a new device? Or if you want to install optional windows components?
    > >What if you want to expand a CAB file to repair a damaged dll?

    >
    > Maybe I can help. Honestly, you might be misinformed.
    >
    > At this time, the majors are at a mix to how they present a "restore"
    > or "reload" for the computer for thier customers. Every brand and even
    > MODEL inside each brand are treated differently in many respects.
    >
    > Dells and some Gateways - They give you an actual OS CD with drivers
    > and applications seperate. Most everyone selling laptops right now,
    > same thing too. The head installer will only permit installtion on the
    > PC it was made for. The Windows XP CD is OEM almost every time with
    > the single license on the single PC, as a sticker. Being XP, even on a
    > CD, the install can only be registered once, as we all know, to one
    > PC.
    >
    > The rest of them are still in the middle because some DO give you a
    > restore set o' CDs, some of them give you an activateable partition on
    > the HD that format/restores the machine at will, the rest, usually
    > small companies - leave you with nada...just the license. Customer
    > caviat emptor, especially with these stupid HSN PCs people snarf up
    > like ice cream with shoddy support.
    >
    > AFA trying to reconstitute a .dll file from a CAB, unless the customer
    > has the "full-on" Windows CD and license, there's really no legal way
    > to get around it. Do you want to go pull out YOUR copy of XP out of
    > your bag and start fooling with illegalities? Hey bud, that's not the
    > customer's CD...and you can't give anyone false sense of securities
    > when a client/customer has no disc themselves. Even though it seems
    > right to do, don't be a martyr. If it's illegal, even if the customer
    > bought the computer from you, don't do it. Or they'll want you to do
    > bad things all the time.
    >
    > Which brings the point, the customer usually has no clue about it, but
    > the way they are left with licensing wholly depends on the OEM who
    > built the machine. That's the magic of OEM. Microsoft doesn't want to
    > hear about Mrs. Smuckenfuss' HP Pavilion. It's up to the
    > builder/system manufacturer to provide support and even Windows
    > XP/98/NT CDs. In this case, she's calling HP instead for example.
    >
    > How do the majors get away with "stuffing" PCs with Windows and not
    > rendering actual CDs to reload? Easy. The product either HAS the
    > Windows licence and CD built into the purchase price or it doesn't.
    > Trust me, when Compaq and others are selling desktops without any
    > outside restore, it's because the purchase price did NOT include
    > exclusive CD and licence accountability. If this person sinks in the
    > quagmire of online and phone support, it's up to...let's say...Compaq
    > to render the discs then or make the customer BUY them.
    >
    > Again, if the price for the cds wasn't in the PC originally, the
    > manufacturer or builder has every right to charge you for OS or
    > restore discs. Because they didn't buy them the 1st time.
    >
    > But what about actual WINDOWS XP CDS for example? What if only a
    > repair needs to be done?
    >
    > Again, in most cases, the manufactuer only anticipates, to save money,
    > that an automated restore would be the easy way for a customer or "IT
    > guy" to fix the situation. In these cases, don't be a hero and try to
    > pull out your own copy of XP. If the customer only has a HD or CD
    > Image type of restore, use it after you find a backup solution for
    > important data. Sorry.
    >
    >
    > >You'r right about one thing - brand machines are mostly crap. That's why

    I
    > >build my own and earn a living by building them for other people, as I

    said
    > >here previously. Many, many times I have turned up on site to do a

    repair
    > >or install a device which requires the OS disk. The customer invariably

    does
    > >not have a disk, not because they have lost it but because they never had

    it
    > >in the first place. They show me all the paperwork that came with their
    > >machines and there is no hint of any licence - sometimes just a restore
    > >disk. No use at all unless you want tot return the machine to its

    factory
    > >state.

    >
    > I can't say, with over 10 years of experience with all of the major
    > brands, that all of the brand machines are crap...but I agree with
    > them being made cheaply to be sold cheaply. If there's a way for Dell
    > to save 45 cents on a DVD drive, multiply that by over 10,000 machines
    > a week, and the obvious is much more clearer. No one wins unless you
    > can make a sub-$500 machine stuffed with software. And even the
    > software on these cheap machines are hidden advertising. I mean, do
    > you think Compaq or Dell would sell you a $500 PC without trying to
    > recap the costs they've slimmed down to a grain of rice? Hell no.
    > They'll throw in trial-ware, and get paid that way. Sad that the
    > customers only look at price and they don't know how to do research on
    > these machines they know little about.
    >
    > The majors don't make a hell of a lot of money per machine. They make
    > money on extended support. That only makes sense. People calling with
    > problems cost money in-warranty. Out of warranty, it makes money.
    >
    > I don't know about " No use at all unless you want tot return the
    > machine to its factory state". It might sound reluctant, but the truth
    > is, if they don't possess any licensing or CD on site, forgettaboutit.
    > Having a restore position at all is a nice thing than having nothing
    > at all.
    >
    > >I say again, it is utter rubbish to suggest that the big chains are
    > >supplying illegal copies of Windows. PC World (massive retail warehouse
    > >stores throughout Britain), Time, Tiny, Novatech????

    >
    > Again, a PC manufacturer can stuff PCs with Windows and no CD or
    > restore. Why? If you're the OEM, it's your responsibility to service
    > the customer - not MS. You can do the same too, but you may have to
    > buy bulk licenses at over 100 or more and additionally, have to take
    > the brunt of the support that comes as a backlash via the
    > clients/customers. The majors can afford that time and money to an
    > extent (they all have to make budget - even by IT people on the
    > lines). For the little guy, it's much easier to build a PC yourself
    > and put the cost of OEM lic & CD right to the customer through the
    > bottom line. Make them aware they cannot lose the disc(s), else lose
    > the support they'll want from you down the line.
    >
    > >So I ask again. What is the legal machinery whrereby the big players

    supply
    > >machines loaded with windows but without supplying an OS disk? If it is
    > >down to a licence, then what kind of licence? And if the OS is truly
    > >licenced in the customer's hands, then why not supply the disk? As you

    say,
    > >they cost pennies.

    >
    > The discs cost pennies to Microsoft. To the little guy, the discs
    > themselves cost more money. To customers, even more as a markup. And
    > again, the majors CAN afford stuffing machines with an OS and selling
    > it. Because the low cost of the license they pay directly effects the
    > price, and non IT people buy these machines up like peanuts, save for
    > their sanity when support is as shoddy as their way OUT of a bad
    > situation including format/restore.
    >
    > So in the case of the PC with no restore discs, OS CD and license,
    > when they come in to see me to repair the OS, I have to turn them away
    > because I would have to use THEIR OS load which they don't have. I may
    > lose a customer, but I'm certainly not going to load them illegally
    > and accept that they'll come to me again to pay me to do things
    > blatently illegal...
    >
    > Stay legal, stay in business. To the ones who don't and do devious
    > things, trust me - They GET theirs in the end.
    >
    > Hope this helps. Sounds funny, but it's true.
    >
    > -Sckott
    >
    >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >"techshare" <> wrote in message
    > >news:...
    > >> ...and you are about as sharp as a pound of butter. You are talking

    > >nonsense
    > >> and not listening to any of the replies to your pointless original

    post. I
    > >> say it's pointless because the license isn't everything .. it's the

    ONLY
    > >> thing. Why are you arguing about the sky being blue?! WTF are you

    babbling
    > >> about diskettes for?! They cost pennies. What about the installation
    > >> software?! Ummm.. I know of no "publicly traded" company that sells

    PC's
    > >> with no customer access to a restoration CD OR a Windows (or other OS)
    > >> distribution. It's pretty much a standard. I've seen some (HP) go so

    far
    > >as
    > >> to make the customer create the restore CD's with a CDR. What, you

    don't
    > >> like this? Boo hoo... do what I did and build a machine. Brand name

    > >machines
    > >> are 98% crap anyway!
    > >>
    > >> The only "rubbish" here is your post ... and I'll put my snide remarks

    in
    > >> wherever I want. Make some sense if you don't want them.
    > >> "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    > >> news:ndDjc.16$...
    > >> > This is getting out of hand. More like Chinese Whispers with every

    > >post.
    > >> >
    > >> > I have made no assumptions whatever. My question, as stated in my

    > >original
    > >> > post which started this thread, is how is it possible for the big
    > >> companies
    > >> > to sell machines loaded with windows legally, but without supplying

    the
    > >> > disk? Ask PC World or Tiny if a Windows disk is included in the cost

    of
    > >> teir
    > >> > PC's.
    > >> >
    > >> > If customers really are paying for a Windows licence in the purchase

    > >price
    > >> > of the PC but without actually receiving the disk, they are inded

    being
    > >> > swindled. So this has got nothing to do with OEM stickers. If you

    have
    > >> > bought an OEM copy of Windows, then you are entitled to an OEM disk.
    > >> >
    > >> > It is utter rubbish to say the hight street shops are "running

    > >illegal".
    > >> > We are talking about listed public companies here.
    > >> >
    > >> > Then you wrote:
    > >> > Your choice ... but folks like me look out for others who get the
    > >> > > nice "advantage" of selling a machine with Windows for "free" ...

    the
    > >> same
    > >> > > way a cop looks out for people that sell stolen goods for "free".
    > >> >
    > >> > Again, if you had bothered to read my original post, you will have

    seen
    > >> that
    > >> > I wrote that I don not care to deal in pirated OS's. So keep you

    > >fuckin'
    > >> > snide remarks to yourself.
    > >> >
    > >> > I wish people could be bothered to read the whole thread before they

    > >send
    > >> > their half-thought-through remarks.
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > "techshare" <> wrote in message
    > >> > news:...
    > >> > > Pointless question. You are WRONG to assume there is any legal path

    to
    > >> > > selling PC's with Windows without buying the LICENSE. If a company

    > >sells
    > >> a
    > >> > > PC with no disk ... of course they MUST have purchased a license
    > >> > > (technically attach the OEM key sticker to the side of the machine

    for
    > >> > XP).
    > >> > > If the "high street shops" are doing anything else.. then they are
    > >> running
    > >> > > illegal. Your choice ... but folks like me look out for others who

    get
    > >> the
    > >> > > nice "advantage" of selling a machine with Windows for "free" ...

    the
    > >> same
    > >> > > way a cop looks out for people that sell stolen goods for "free".
    > >> > > "sAxmAn" <> wrote in message
    > >> > > news:ZMjic.59$...
    > >> > > > I've been in the business of building bespoke PC's for customers

    for
    > >a
    > >> > > > couple of years. Never had a serious complaint about any machine

    > >I've
    > >> > > built
    > >> > > > so far, but folks often expect me to provide a copy of Windows

    > >loaded
    > >> on
    > >> > > the
    > >> > > > system. Since I don't like to deal in pirated OS's, this means I

    > >need
    > >> to
    > >> > > get
    > >> > > > a fresh copy for each customer. This adds considerably to the

    cost
    > >of
    > >> > the
    > >> > > > PC as XPpro or 2kpro costs around £100 ($200USD) at the very

    > >cheapest
    > >> > for
    > >> > > an
    > >> > > > OEM copy from an online store.
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > > Customers do not understand the benefit of owning their own OS

    disk,
    > >> and
    > >> > > > often complain that systems from high street shops come with an

    OS
    > >> > loaded
    > >> > > > (although no disk is supplied).
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > > So, my question is, how do I fix it so that I can legally load an

    OS
    > >> > onto
    > >> > > > the new machines I build, without supplying a fresh OS disk to

    each
    > >> > > > customer?
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > >
    > >> > > >
    > >> > >
    > >> > >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >>

    > >

    >
    sAxmAn, Apr 28, 2004
    #19
  20. sAxmAn

    techshare Guest

    Good points Imho. Speaking of the various OS's... (and maybe this has been
    answered before) ... is there any easy way for a computer service company to
    get a full collection of all the MS OS installation CD's . I'm still missing
    ME. I realize I *may* be able to get them all from MS which will no doubt be
    costly and probably require some sort of subscription.
    "ImhoTech" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > <Sckott> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:42:33 +0100, "sAxmAn" <>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > >It is true that the Companies I have been referring to do generally

    > supply a
    > > >restore disk. But what on God's earth use is restore disk if you need

    to
    > > >format the HDD and reinstall the OS? Or if you need it for the

    > insatllation
    > > >of a new device? Or if you want to install optional windows components?
    > > >What if you want to expand a CAB file to repair a damaged dll?

    > >
    > > Maybe I can help. Honestly, you might be misinformed.

    >
    > And maybe your nearly as confused as the original poster. It was a simple
    > thing really. The media doesn't matter! Its the License that's bought.
    > Shipping computers without 'media' is not a new thing. Its been around for
    > as as there have been comapnies selling mass market computers.
    >
    > >
    > > At this time, the majors are at a mix to how they present a "restore"
    > > or "reload" for the computer for thier customers. Every brand and even
    > > MODEL inside each brand are treated differently in many respects.

    >
    > As this time, and as they have always been.
    >
    > >
    > > Dells and some Gateways - They give you an actual OS CD with drivers
    > > and applications seperate. Most everyone selling laptops right now,
    > > same thing too. The head installer will only permit installtion on the
    > > PC it was made for. The Windows XP CD is OEM almost every time with
    > > the single license on the single PC, as a sticker. Being XP, even on a
    > > CD, the install can only be registered once, as we all know, to one
    > > PC.

    >
    > XP doesn't even need registration. Any version. What you're thinking is
    > about Activation. Dell's OEM version is bios locked. The OS won't install

    to
    > any computer without an identical motherboard to the original it was

    issued
    > for. Quite a point of contention for many folks.
    >
    > >
    > > The rest of them are still in the middle because some DO give you a
    > > restore set o' CDs, some of them give you an activateable partition on
    > > the HD that format/restores the machine at will, the rest, usually
    > > small companies - leave you with nada...just the license. Customer
    > > caviat emptor, especially with these stupid HSN PCs people snarf up
    > > like ice cream with shoddy support.
    > >
    > > AFA trying to reconstitute a .dll file from a CAB, unless the customer
    > > has the "full-on" Windows CD and license, there's really no legal way
    > > to get around it.

    >
    > Restoring one file? Any properly setup computer won't need external media.
    >
    > >Do you want to go pull out YOUR copy of XP out of
    > > your bag and start fooling with illegalities? Hey bud, that's not the
    > > customer's CD

    >
    > Sorry this is just BS. Any technician would have a copy of the OS he
    > expected to work on, just in case a file needed replacing. There's no
    > legality involved until you install an OS.
    >
    > >other drivel snipped<

    >
    >
    techshare, Apr 28, 2004
    #20
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