Suggestions for positions now that I have MCSD

Discussion in 'MCSD' started by =?Utf-8?B?VG9tIGluIFNlYXR0bGU=?=, Aug 29, 2004.

  1. I am finding that finding a position is a real challenge in the seattle area.
    It appears that everyone want 3 years experience in .NET.
    How do I get the experience?
    Unless you have C++ experiance, entry level .Net positions appear to be hard
    to get.
    --
    Thanks, Tom
    =?Utf-8?B?VG9tIGluIFNlYXR0bGU=?=, Aug 29, 2004
    #1
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  2. =?Utf-8?B?VG9tIGluIFNlYXR0bGU=?=

    Guest Guest

    Not everyone is asking for 3+ years of experience. If you browse
    monster.com, hotjobs.com, etc. long enough, you will find entry level
    positions. If you are new to the job market (as a developer), then finding
    the ideal job may not be an option. One path is to enter a company through
    the QA or technical support department and then work your way into
    development. This approach may be easier in a medium or small sized company
    where the IT departments tend to be more fluid and people typically end up
    wearing more than one hat. If SQL Server development (advanced queries,
    stored procedures, database modeling, etc) isn't currently one of you
    skills, then combing that with programming will help open doors. Just
    remember to never stop learning and networking with the right people.

    "Tom in Seattle" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I am finding that finding a position is a real challenge in the seattle

    area.
    > It appears that everyone want 3 years experience in .NET.
    > How do I get the experience?
    > Unless you have C++ experiance, entry level .Net positions appear to be

    hard
    > to get.
    > --
    > Thanks, Tom
    Guest, Aug 30, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. =?Utf-8?B?VG9tIGluIFNlYXR0bGU=?=

    Eric Guest

    Tom in Seattle wrote:

    > I am finding that finding a position is a real challenge in the
    > seattle area. It appears that everyone want 3 years experience in
    > .NET. How do I get the experience?
    > Unless you have C++ experiance, entry level .Net positions appear to
    > be hard to get.


    Have you made any web sites for volunteer organizations? This is
    something that looks good on a resume.

    Eric
    Eric, Aug 30, 2004
    #3
  4. >Have you made any web sites for volunteer organizations? This is
    >something that looks good on a resume.


    I guess for entry level positions it would help, assuming that is, the
    site serves some purpose other than displaying fancy graphics.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Aug 30, 2004
    #4
  5. =?Utf-8?B?VG9tIGluIFNlYXR0bGU=?=

    Geoff Guest

    No company in their right mind would be interested in
    employing someone who does not have the proper on the job
    experience within the company's area of expertise. It is
    giving people false hope suggesting otherwise.

    >-----Original Message-----
    >>Have you made any web sites for volunteer organizations?

    This is
    >>something that looks good on a resume.

    >
    >I guess for entry level positions it would help, assuming

    that is, the
    >site serves some purpose other than displaying fancy

    graphics.
    >
    >Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    >.
    >
    Geoff, Aug 31, 2004
    #5
  6. =?Utf-8?B?VG9tIGluIFNlYXR0bGU=?=

    Geoff Guest

    My company recently posted a vacancy for a graduate junior
    software developer/engineer to work in our Microsoft
    technology tools department. We stopped acknowledging
    receipts once we had received 1000 postal résumés in just
    7 days. These included half a dozen or so with PHD's, go
    figure!

    >-----Original Message-----
    >Not everyone is asking for 3+ years of experience. If you

    browse
    >monster.com, hotjobs.com, etc. long enough, you will find

    entry level
    >positions. If you are new to the job market (as a

    developer), then finding
    >the ideal job may not be an option. One path is to enter

    a company through
    >the QA or technical support department and then work your

    way into
    >development. This approach may be easier in a medium or

    small sized company
    >where the IT departments tend to be more fluid and people

    typically end up
    >wearing more than one hat. If SQL Server development

    (advanced queries,
    >stored procedures, database modeling, etc) isn't

    currently one of you
    >skills, then combing that with programming will help open

    doors. Just
    >remember to never stop learning and networking with the

    right people.
    >
    >"Tom in Seattle" <>

    wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> I am finding that finding a position is a real

    challenge in the seattle
    >area.
    >> It appears that everyone want 3 years experience

    in .NET.
    >> How do I get the experience?
    >> Unless you have C++ experiance, entry level .Net

    positions appear to be
    >hard
    >> to get.
    >> --
    >> Thanks, Tom

    >
    >
    >.
    >
    Geoff, Aug 31, 2004
    #6
  7. =?Utf-8?B?VG9tIGluIFNlYXR0bGU=?=

    Guest Guest

    Sorting out a handful of good candidates from a stack of 1000 resumes
    requires a special talent. Tech recruiters who shotgun their client's
    resumes to every possible opening just aggrevate the situation.

    My advice to anyone just getting started would be to first finish their
    degree (4 years will suffice), learn what is in demand (not just what is
    being taught) and get their foot in the door of any development shop. It
    doesn't matter which development shop, a good observer can learn lessons
    even from a bad shop.

    "Geoff" <> wrote in message
    news:33b101c48f27$bb1f1750$...
    My company recently posted a vacancy for a graduate junior
    software developer/engineer to work in our Microsoft
    technology tools department. We stopped acknowledging
    receipts once we had received 1000 postal résumés in just
    7 days. These included half a dozen or so with PHD's, go
    figure!

    >-----Original Message-----
    >Not everyone is asking for 3+ years of experience. If you

    browse
    >monster.com, hotjobs.com, etc. long enough, you will find

    entry level
    >positions. If you are new to the job market (as a

    developer), then finding
    >the ideal job may not be an option. One path is to enter

    a company through
    >the QA or technical support department and then work your

    way into
    >development. This approach may be easier in a medium or

    small sized company
    >where the IT departments tend to be more fluid and people

    typically end up
    >wearing more than one hat. If SQL Server development

    (advanced queries,
    >stored procedures, database modeling, etc) isn't

    currently one of you
    >skills, then combing that with programming will help open

    doors. Just
    >remember to never stop learning and networking with the

    right people.
    >
    >"Tom in Seattle" <>

    wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> I am finding that finding a position is a real

    challenge in the seattle
    >area.
    >> It appears that everyone want 3 years experience

    in .NET.
    >> How do I get the experience?
    >> Unless you have C++ experiance, entry level .Net

    positions appear to be
    >hard
    >> to get.
    >> --
    >> Thanks, Tom

    >
    >
    >.
    >
    Guest, Aug 31, 2004
    #7
  8. >My advice to anyone just getting started would be to first finish their
    >degree (4 years will suffice)


    too right.

    > It
    >doesn't matter which development shop, a good observer can learn lessons
    >even from a bad shop.


    although the reputation of the 'bad shop', as you put it, travels with
    you has well....

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Aug 31, 2004
    #8
  9. >No company in their right mind would be interested in
    >employing someone who does not have the proper on the job
    >experience within the company's area of expertise.


    totally agree, I never insinuated otherwise

    > It is
    >giving people false hope suggesting otherwise.


    very true.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Aug 31, 2004
    #9
  10. =?Utf-8?B?VG9tIGluIFNlYXR0bGU=?=

    Guest Guest

    IT developers are like the journeyman sailors of the 18th century. We sign
    up with the first ship that comes to port looking for an able seaman,
    experience a shipwreck or two, survive (or even participate in) a good
    mutiny, occasionally find ourselves languishing unemployed in some port, and
    dream of one day being master or even commander of our own vessel.
    WKidd

    "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >My advice to anyone just getting started would be to first finish their
    > >degree (4 years will suffice)

    >
    > too right.
    >
    > > It
    > >doesn't matter which development shop, a good observer can learn lessons
    > >even from a bad shop.

    >
    > although the reputation of the 'bad shop', as you put it, travels with
    > you has well....
    >
    > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    Guest, Aug 31, 2004
    #10
  11. =?Utf-8?B?VG9tIGluIFNlYXR0bGU=?=

    Hermit Dave Guest

    rightly said..

    --

    Regards,

    Hermit Dave
    (http://hdave.blogspot.com)
    <WKidd> wrote in message news:...
    > IT developers are like the journeyman sailors of the 18th century. We sign
    > up with the first ship that comes to port looking for an able seaman,
    > experience a shipwreck or two, survive (or even participate in) a good
    > mutiny, occasionally find ourselves languishing unemployed in some port,

    and
    > dream of one day being master or even commander of our own vessel.
    > WKidd
    >
    > "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > >My advice to anyone just getting started would be to first finish their
    > > >degree (4 years will suffice)

    > >
    > > too right.
    > >
    > > > It
    > > >doesn't matter which development shop, a good observer can learn

    lessons
    > > >even from a bad shop.

    > >
    > > although the reputation of the 'bad shop', as you put it, travels with
    > > you has well....
    > >
    > > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

    >
    >
    Hermit Dave, Aug 31, 2004
    #11
  12. =?Utf-8?B?VG9tIGluIFNlYXR0bGU=?=

    Guest Guest

    Yohoho and A Bottle Of Rum!!!
    ;-)

    "Hermit Dave" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > rightly said..
    >
    > --
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Hermit Dave
    > (http://hdave.blogspot.com)
    > <WKidd> wrote in message news:...
    > > IT developers are like the journeyman sailors of the 18th century. We

    sign
    > > up with the first ship that comes to port looking for an able seaman,
    > > experience a shipwreck or two, survive (or even participate in) a good
    > > mutiny, occasionally find ourselves languishing unemployed in some port,

    > and
    > > dream of one day being master or even commander of our own vessel.
    > > WKidd
    > >
    > > "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > >My advice to anyone just getting started would be to first finish

    their
    > > > >degree (4 years will suffice)
    > > >
    > > > too right.
    > > >
    > > > > It
    > > > >doesn't matter which development shop, a good observer can learn

    > lessons
    > > > >even from a bad shop.
    > > >
    > > > although the reputation of the 'bad shop', as you put it, travels with
    > > > you has well....
    > > >
    > > > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Guest, Aug 31, 2004
    #12
  13. =?Utf-8?B?VG9tIGluIFNlYXR0bGU=?=

    Eric Guest

    Geoff wrote:

    > No company in their right mind would be interested in
    > employing someone who does not have the proper on the job
    > experience within the company's area of expertise. It is
    > giving people false hope suggesting otherwise.
    >


    I disagree. I think a URL aimed at a site you made yourself is better
    than having nothing at all to show a company.

    Of course, you can bring in code samples to show off some work you did,
    but they really like to see the end result - especially when web sites
    are involved.

    It should be non-trivial in order to have some value, and preferably a
    site that uses a back-end database.

    The use a a data access layer, and a business object layer, would be
    pluses - especially for an entry-level developer. This would show that
    you're ready to do "real work".

    I totally agree that paid experience is worth more, but if you have no
    experience at all, you need to show what you can do in order to get
    that first job.

    I can't imagine getting a job in ASP.NET if you have nothing at all to
    show a company. Jobs are too tight now for that to happen. Of course,
    you might get lucky, but I wouldn't plan on getting this lucky.

    Eric
    Eric, Sep 3, 2004
    #13
  14. >It should be non-trivial in order to have some value

    indeed if it solves real world business problems.

    However, the difference between a noddy web site for some two bit
    company, produced for nothing, showing pretty pictures, is somewhat
    different than a 'real world' business solution which securely handles
    hundreds or thousands of business transactions actions an hour.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Sep 3, 2004
    #14
  15. =?Utf-8?B?VG9tIGluIFNlYXR0bGU=?=

    Guest Guest

    A large percentage of experienced developers are only involved in one aspect
    of a project lifecycle, for example maintenace programming, GUI design or
    database development. If you asked them to develop even a simple data driven
    website from front to back, including gathering requirements from the
    client, then they would drop the ball. Therefore, if someone demonstrated to
    me that they personally built a website from front to back for even a small
    business or non-profit, then that would be significant.

    <Eric> wrote in message news:...
    > Geoff wrote:
    >
    > > No company in their right mind would be interested in
    > > employing someone who does not have the proper on the job
    > > experience within the company's area of expertise. It is
    > > giving people false hope suggesting otherwise.
    > >

    >
    > I disagree. I think a URL aimed at a site you made yourself is better
    > than having nothing at all to show a company.
    >
    > Of course, you can bring in code samples to show off some work you did,
    > but they really like to see the end result - especially when web sites
    > are involved.
    >
    > It should be non-trivial in order to have some value, and preferably a
    > site that uses a back-end database.
    >
    > The use a a data access layer, and a business object layer, would be
    > pluses - especially for an entry-level developer. This would show that
    > you're ready to do "real work".
    >
    > I totally agree that paid experience is worth more, but if you have no
    > experience at all, you need to show what you can do in order to get
    > that first job.
    >
    > I can't imagine getting a job in ASP.NET if you have nothing at all to
    > show a company. Jobs are too tight now for that to happen. Of course,
    > you might get lucky, but I wouldn't plan on getting this lucky.
    >
    > Eric
    Guest, Sep 6, 2004
    #15
  16. >A large percentage of experienced developers are only involved in one aspect
    >of a project lifecycle


    Very true for freelance people, but not for salaried people.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Sep 6, 2004
    #16
  17. =?Utf-8?B?VG9tIGluIFNlYXR0bGU=?=

    Hermit Dave Guest

    www.steptall.com

    well i provided the client with a way to keep modify home page image and not
    i dont know what the heck she's doing...
    the images are all different sizes in whole lot of backgrounds... but yes
    from requirements to design and dev...

    the UI (look) was done by a friend.. i am not good with colours

    --

    Regards,

    Hermit Dave
    (http://hdave.blogspot.com)
    <WKidd> wrote in message news:...
    > A large percentage of experienced developers are only involved in one

    aspect
    > of a project lifecycle, for example maintenace programming, GUI design or
    > database development. If you asked them to develop even a simple data

    driven
    > website from front to back, including gathering requirements from the
    > client, then they would drop the ball. Therefore, if someone demonstrated

    to
    > me that they personally built a website from front to back for even a

    small
    > business or non-profit, then that would be significant.
    >
    > <Eric> wrote in message news:...
    > > Geoff wrote:
    > >
    > > > No company in their right mind would be interested in
    > > > employing someone who does not have the proper on the job
    > > > experience within the company's area of expertise. It is
    > > > giving people false hope suggesting otherwise.
    > > >

    > >
    > > I disagree. I think a URL aimed at a site you made yourself is better
    > > than having nothing at all to show a company.
    > >
    > > Of course, you can bring in code samples to show off some work you did,
    > > but they really like to see the end result - especially when web sites
    > > are involved.
    > >
    > > It should be non-trivial in order to have some value, and preferably a
    > > site that uses a back-end database.
    > >
    > > The use a a data access layer, and a business object layer, would be
    > > pluses - especially for an entry-level developer. This would show that
    > > you're ready to do "real work".
    > >
    > > I totally agree that paid experience is worth more, but if you have no
    > > experience at all, you need to show what you can do in order to get
    > > that first job.
    > >
    > > I can't imagine getting a job in ASP.NET if you have nothing at all to
    > > show a company. Jobs are too tight now for that to happen. Of course,
    > > you might get lucky, but I wouldn't plan on getting this lucky.
    > >
    > > Eric

    >
    >
    Hermit Dave, Sep 6, 2004
    #17
  18. =?Utf-8?B?VG9tIGluIFNlYXR0bGU=?=

    Hermit Dave Guest

    that was done sometime last year when i gave 315

    --

    Regards,

    Hermit Dave
    (http://hdave.blogspot.com)
    "Hermit Dave" <> wrote in message
    news:ucxH$...
    > www.steptall.com
    >
    > well i provided the client with a way to keep modify home page image and

    not
    > i dont know what the heck she's doing...
    > the images are all different sizes in whole lot of backgrounds... but yes
    > from requirements to design and dev...
    >
    > the UI (look) was done by a friend.. i am not good with colours
    >
    > --
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Hermit Dave
    > (http://hdave.blogspot.com)
    > <WKidd> wrote in message news:...
    > > A large percentage of experienced developers are only involved in one

    > aspect
    > > of a project lifecycle, for example maintenace programming, GUI design

    or
    > > database development. If you asked them to develop even a simple data

    > driven
    > > website from front to back, including gathering requirements from the
    > > client, then they would drop the ball. Therefore, if someone

    demonstrated
    > to
    > > me that they personally built a website from front to back for even a

    > small
    > > business or non-profit, then that would be significant.
    > >
    > > <Eric> wrote in message news:...
    > > > Geoff wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > No company in their right mind would be interested in
    > > > > employing someone who does not have the proper on the job
    > > > > experience within the company's area of expertise. It is
    > > > > giving people false hope suggesting otherwise.
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > I disagree. I think a URL aimed at a site you made yourself is better
    > > > than having nothing at all to show a company.
    > > >
    > > > Of course, you can bring in code samples to show off some work you

    did,
    > > > but they really like to see the end result - especially when web sites
    > > > are involved.
    > > >
    > > > It should be non-trivial in order to have some value, and preferably a
    > > > site that uses a back-end database.
    > > >
    > > > The use a a data access layer, and a business object layer, would be
    > > > pluses - especially for an entry-level developer. This would show that
    > > > you're ready to do "real work".
    > > >
    > > > I totally agree that paid experience is worth more, but if you have no
    > > > experience at all, you need to show what you can do in order to get
    > > > that first job.
    > > >
    > > > I can't imagine getting a job in ASP.NET if you have nothing at all to
    > > > show a company. Jobs are too tight now for that to happen. Of course,
    > > > you might get lucky, but I wouldn't plan on getting this lucky.
    > > >
    > > > Eric

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Hermit Dave, Sep 6, 2004
    #18
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