Suggestions for black and white photo printers?????

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by jw, Jul 9, 2004.

  1. jw

    jw Guest

    hello everyone.....i'm a complete newbie to the world of digital
    photography, but have had my own darkroom for quite sometime now. i
    just recently purchased a mid-grade film scanner and in addition to
    the archiving of my black and white negatives, i'd like to make high
    quality prints of my black and white negatives via a photo printer.

    if anyone has any suggestions as to which printer out there would best
    fit my needs in terms of high quality prints, i'd be greatly
    appreciative!!!

    thanks!!!!
    jw, Jul 9, 2004
    #1
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  2. jw

    David Guest

    you might want to start listing your requirements

    David
    "jw" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > hello everyone.....i'm a complete newbie to the world of digital
    > photography, but have had my own darkroom for quite sometime now. i
    > just recently purchased a mid-grade film scanner and in addition to
    > the archiving of my black and white negatives, i'd like to make high
    > quality prints of my black and white negatives via a photo printer.
    >
    > if anyone has any suggestions as to which printer out there would best
    > fit my needs in terms of high quality prints, i'd be greatly
    > appreciative!!!
    >
    > thanks!!!!
    David, Jul 9, 2004
    #2
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  3. jw

    stewy Guest

    "jw" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > hello everyone.....i'm a complete newbie to the world of digital
    > photography, but have had my own darkroom for quite sometime now. i
    > just recently purchased a mid-grade film scanner and in addition to
    > the archiving of my black and white negatives, i'd like to make high
    > quality prints of my black and white negatives via a photo printer.
    >
    > if anyone has any suggestions as to which printer out there would best
    > fit my needs in terms of high quality prints, i'd be greatly
    > appreciative!!!


    What do you want to do?

    Print up to A3?
    Print in colour too?
    stewy, Jul 9, 2004
    #3
  4. jw

    Bob Guest

    On 8 Jul 2004 16:27:51 -0700, (jw) wrote:

    >hello everyone.....i'm a complete newbie to the world of digital
    >photography, but have had my own darkroom for quite sometime now. i
    >just recently purchased a mid-grade film scanner and in addition to
    >the archiving of my black and white negatives, i'd like to make high
    >quality prints of my black and white negatives via a photo printer.
    >
    >if anyone has any suggestions as to which printer out there would best
    >fit my needs in terms of high quality prints, i'd be greatly
    >appreciative!!!
    >
    >thanks!!!!


    I can't tell you for sure, I use an inkjet. The only time I've gotten good B/W
    prints from an inkjet is when I set it to full color mode and convert the B/W
    pic to 24 bit color. I sometimes tint it a bit as well. That forces the printer
    to use all the ink cartridges rather then just the black, and you get 4 times
    more ink dots. My HP does a pretty good job - but don't expect to get Ilford
    quality - it ain't happening!

    Bob
    former darkroom operator
    Bob, Jul 9, 2004
    #4
  5. Have a look at the Epson printers that use the pigmented inks. I believe
    they have a set of black inks that does a great job.



    "jw" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > hello everyone.....i'm a complete newbie to the world of digital
    > photography, but have had my own darkroom for quite sometime now. i
    > just recently purchased a mid-grade film scanner and in addition to
    > the archiving of my black and white negatives, i'd like to make high
    > quality prints of my black and white negatives via a photo printer.
    >
    > if anyone has any suggestions as to which printer out there would best
    > fit my needs in terms of high quality prints, i'd be greatly
    > appreciative!!!
    >
    > thanks!!!!
    Gene Palmiter, Jul 9, 2004
    #5
  6. jw

    zeitgeist Guest

    epson 3000 converted to quadtone inksets (four levels of gray to black)
    you get up to 16x20 on heavy art paper.

    "jw" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > hello everyone.....i'm a complete newbie to the world of digital
    > photography, but have had my own darkroom for quite sometime now. i
    > just recently purchased a mid-grade film scanner and in addition to
    > the archiving of my black and white negatives, i'd like to make high
    > quality prints of my black and white negatives via a photo printer.
    >
    > if anyone has any suggestions as to which printer out there would best
    > fit my needs in terms of high quality prints, i'd be greatly
    > appreciative!!!
    >
    > thanks!!!!
    zeitgeist, Jul 9, 2004
    #6
  7. jw

    Drifter Guest

    On 8 Jul 2004 16:27:51 -0700, (jw) wrote:

    >hello everyone.....i'm a complete newbie to the world of digital
    >photography, but have had my own darkroom for quite sometime now. i
    >just recently purchased a mid-grade film scanner and in addition to
    >the archiving of my black and white negatives, i'd like to make high
    >quality prints of my black and white negatives via a photo printer.
    >
    >if anyone has any suggestions as to which printer out there would best
    >fit my needs in terms of high quality prints, i'd be greatly
    >appreciative!!!
    >
    >thanks!!!!


    HP Photosmart 7960 (it has the extra grey carts, it's pretty darn
    amazing).


    Drifter
    "I've been here, I've been there..."
    Drifter, Jul 9, 2004
    #7
  8. On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 16:27:51 -0700, jw wrote:

    > hello everyone.....i'm a complete newbie to the world of digital
    > photography, but have had my own darkroom for quite sometime now. i
    > just recently purchased a mid-grade film scanner and in addition to
    > the archiving of my black and white negatives, i'd like to make high
    > quality prints of my black and white negatives via a photo printer.
    >
    > if anyone has any suggestions as to which printer out there would best
    > fit my needs in terms of high quality prints, i'd be greatly
    > appreciative!!!


    Without a clearer set of requirements you're unlikely to get good advice.
    With that said...

    If you intend to print both color and B&W and don't want to dedicate a
    printer to each then I would recommend an Epson 2200 or 7600 coupled with
    ColorByte Software's ImagePrint raster image processor. ImagePrint will
    produce fine art quality B&W prints on the aforementioned printers using
    their standard ultrachrome color inks. This is not a cheap solution. The
    ImagePrint software cost almost as much as my printer. But the difference
    in print quality for color prints is noticeable and for B&W it's a huge
    improvement.
    Kurtis D. Rader, Jul 9, 2004
    #8
  9. jw

    Guest

    Kurtis D. Rader <> wrote:
    > On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 16:27:51 -0700, jw wrote:


    >> hello everyone.....i'm a complete newbie to the world of digital
    >> photography, but have had my own darkroom for quite sometime now. i
    >> just recently purchased a mid-grade film scanner and in addition to
    >> the archiving of my black and white negatives, i'd like to make high
    >> quality prints of my black and white negatives via a photo printer.
    >>
    >> if anyone has any suggestions as to which printer out there would best
    >> fit my needs in terms of high quality prints, i'd be greatly
    >> appreciative!!!


    > Without a clearer set of requirements you're unlikely to get good advice.
    > With that said...


    > If you intend to print both color and B&W and don't want to dedicate
    > a printer to each then I would recommend an Epson 2200 or 7600
    > coupled with ColorByte Software's ImagePrint raster image
    > processor. ImagePrint will produce fine art quality B&W prints on
    > the aforementioned printers using their standard ultrachrome color
    > inks. This is not a cheap solution. The ImagePrint software cost
    > almost as much as my printer. But the difference in print quality
    > for color prints is noticeable and for B&W it's a huge improvement.


    Interesting. Were you using custom colour profiles for this
    before/after experiment?

    Andrew.
    , Jul 13, 2004
    #9
  10. On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:11:22 +0000, andrew29 wrote:

    > Interesting. Were you using custom colour profiles for this
    > before/after experiment?


    Custom color profiles for the Imageprint solution, standard profiles
    provided by Epson for their driver (yes, I chose the appropriate profile
    for the paper stock in each case). Note that the color print differences
    tend to be relatively subtle and are most apparent when viewing the
    print under multiple lighting conditions. Given the cost I certainly
    wouldn't recommend the Imageprint solution if you are doing strictly color
    printing unless you're selling your prints, and maybe not even then. But
    if you want excellent quality color and B&W out of the same printer then I
    don't know of a better solution.

    Having said that, I should point out that I am unhappy about one aspect of
    the Imageprint solution (two if you count the cost): it requires a USB
    "dongle" that acts as part of the license mechanism. Such mechanisms tend
    to be a real pain in the ass. Of course, the last time I had to deal with
    such a scheme USB didn't exist and the standard approach was a parallel
    port dongle. Perhaps a USB based security dongle won't be as problematic.
    Kurtis D. Rader, Jul 14, 2004
    #10
  11. jw

    Guest

    Kurtis D. Rader <> wrote:
    > On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:11:22 +0000, andrew29 wrote:


    >> Interesting. Were you using custom colour profiles for this
    >> before/after experiment?


    > Custom color profiles for the Imageprint solution, standard profiles
    > provided by Epson for their driver (yes, I chose the appropriate
    > profile for the paper stock in each case).


    Yeah, I guessed that. I suspect that an important difference between
    quality of monochrome in these two cases is that you had custom
    profiles for one case and canned profiles for the other.

    > Note that the color print differences tend to be relatively subtle
    > and are most apparent when viewing the print under multiple lighting
    > conditions. Given the cost I certainly wouldn't recommend the
    > Imageprint solution if you are doing strictly color printing unless
    > you're selling your prints, and maybe not even then. But if you want
    > excellent quality color and B&W out of the same printer then I don't
    > know of a better solution.


    Fair enough. However, custom colour profiles produce good black +
    white results, even with the Epson driver. I wonder if you'd be able
    to tell the difference between a good RGB profile with the Epson
    driver and a (presumably) CMYK profile with the RIP. People tell me a
    RIP gives better results, but I've never seen a real comparison done
    with accurate colour profiles in both cases.

    > Having said that, I should point out that I am unhappy about one
    > aspect of the Imageprint solution (two if you count the cost): it
    > requires a USB "dongle" that acts as part of the license
    > mechanism. Such mechanisms tend to be a real pain in the ass. Of
    > course, the last time I had to deal with such a scheme USB didn't
    > exist and the standard approach was a parallel port dongle. Perhaps
    > a USB based security dongle won't be as problematic.


    Oh dear. :-(

    Andrew.
    , Jul 15, 2004
    #11
  12. On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:05:19 +0000, andrew29 wrote:

    > Yeah, I guessed that. I suspect that an important difference between
    > quality of monochrome in these two cases is that you had custom profiles
    > for one case and canned profiles for the other.


    A bit of clarification might be in order. I did not create my own custom
    profiles. I used the profiles that shipped with both printer drivers for
    the standard Epson branded paper I use. So both sets of profiles are
    "custom" in so far as they purport to be tuned to the paper I used. It may
    be that the ColorByte profile was created with more care and their printer
    driver is no better than the Epson driver. Or their driver may be better
    than the Epson driver. Or it may be that I'm deluding myself in order to
    self justify the cost of the ColorByte ImagePrint solution :)

    > Fair enough. However, custom colour profiles produce good black + white
    > results, even with the Epson driver. I wonder if you'd be able to tell
    > the difference between a good RGB profile with the Epson driver and a
    > (presumably) CMYK profile with the RIP. People tell me a RIP gives
    > better results, but I've never seen a real comparison done with accurate
    > colour profiles in both cases.


    The Epson driver gave me acceptable results --- for a very subjective
    definition of acceptable. I find the results from the ColorByte RIP to be
    more pleasing --- especially viewed under a variety of lighting
    conditions.

    >> Having said that, I should point out that I am unhappy about one aspect
    >> of the Imageprint solution (two if you count the cost): it requires a
    >> USB "dongle" that acts as part of the license mechanism. Such
    >> mechanisms tend to be a real pain in the ass. Of course, the last time
    >> I had to deal with such a scheme USB didn't exist and the standard
    >> approach was a parallel port dongle. Perhaps a USB based security
    >> dongle won't be as problematic.

    >
    > Oh dear. :-(


    Indeed :-( The use of a license dongle caused me to give more
    consideration to buying to this solution than the cost did. My experiences
    with parallel port based license dongles in the past have made me very
    wary of such things. It's too soon to tell if this will be an issue with
    the ColorByte ImagePrint software. But note that complicated software
    licensing schemes don't have to involve a dongle to be a pain in the ass.

    I also recently purchased a license for the Capture One Phase One SE
    (C1SE) product. To date I have been unable to convert ("develop" in the
    terminology of this product) my Canon 1Ds images from raw to tiff format.
    I can get it to accept my product key but when I go to "develop" the
    images it complains that the software doesn't have a valid license key. So
    far I have been underwhelmed by their web based support. But in fairness,
    it is a Dutch company and the fact I only speak English is no doubt a
    factor.
    Kurtis D. Rader, Jul 16, 2004
    #12
  13. jw

    Guest

    Kurtis D. Rader <> wrote:
    > On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:05:19 +0000, andrew29 wrote:


    >> Yeah, I guessed that. I suspect that an important difference between
    >> quality of monochrome in these two cases is that you had custom profiles
    >> for one case and canned profiles for the other.


    > A bit of clarification might be in order. I did not create my own custom
    > profiles. I used the profiles that shipped with both printer drivers for
    > the standard Epson branded paper I use. So both sets of profiles are
    > "custom" in so far as they purport to be tuned to the paper I used. It may
    > be that the ColorByte profile was created with more care and their printer
    > driver is no better than the Epson driver. Or their driver may be better
    > than the Epson driver. Or it may be that I'm deluding myself in order to
    > self justify the cost of the ColorByte ImagePrint solution :)


    <grin> It could just be chance, y'know: maybe the printer on which
    ColorByte created their profile was similar to yours. Who knows? I
    don't doubt that CMYK profiles can in principle be made more accurate
    than RGB profiles, but I do know that RGB profiles can be very good.

    When I first tried to generate monochrome images with a 7600 there was
    a noticeable colour cast that magically "went away" when I generated a
    custom profile. It seems like you and I had essentially the same
    problem but solved it in different ways.

    Andrew.
    , Jul 16, 2004
    #13
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