Strange brown stuff on motherboard

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Lurk, Nov 20, 2003.

  1. Lurk

    Lurk Guest

    You are going to have to bare with me on this one, it's a little hard to
    explain. My friend has a motherboard (Jetway 333). Her computer has been
    acting really wierd lately. The CPU temperature was detected at 300 degrees
    Celcius and the vcore was exessively high. I opened up the computer and had
    a look and I found 7 battery shaped things on the motherboard (I don't know
    what they are). These battery shaped things had a brown powder stuff all
    over them which I thought was unusual. I scraped the brown stuff off and it
    looked a bit like rust, except it was powder. Is this normal, and what is
    this brown stuff? I'm wondering whether she needs to completely scrap the
    board and buy a new one.

    I hope this makes sense.

    -
    Lurk
     
    Lurk, Nov 20, 2003
    #1
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  2. Lurk

    NoOne Guest

    300 C = 572 F
    Something burned up
    "Lurk" <> wrote in message
    news:bpjcjo$e0r$...
    > You are going to have to bare with me on this one, it's a little hard to
    > explain. My friend has a motherboard (Jetway 333). Her computer has been
    > acting really wierd lately. The CPU temperature was detected at 300

    degrees
    > Celcius and the vcore was exessively high. I opened up the computer and

    had
    > a look and I found 7 battery shaped things on the motherboard (I don't

    know
    > what they are). These battery shaped things had a brown powder stuff all
    > over them which I thought was unusual. I scraped the brown stuff off and

    it
    > looked a bit like rust, except it was powder. Is this normal, and what is
    > this brown stuff? I'm wondering whether she needs to completely scrap the
    > board and buy a new one.
    >
    > I hope this makes sense.
    >
    > -
    > Lurk
    >
    >
     
    NoOne, Nov 20, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Lurk

    derek / nul Guest

    On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:44:25 +0000 (UTC), "Lurk" <> wrote:

    >You are going to have to bare with me on this one, it's a little hard to
    >explain. My friend has a motherboard (Jetway 333). Her computer has been
    >acting really wierd lately. The CPU temperature was detected at 300 degrees
    >Celcius and the vcore was exessively high. I opened up the computer and had
    >a look and I found 7 battery shaped things on the motherboard (I don't know
    >what they are). These battery shaped things had a brown powder stuff all
    >over them which I thought was unusual. I scraped the brown stuff off and it
    >looked a bit like rust, except it was powder. Is this normal, and what is
    >this brown stuff? I'm wondering whether she needs to completely scrap the
    >board and buy a new one.


    There were a batch of faulty capacitors user by a number of m/b manufacturers.
    If you can find someone interested in replacing the faulty capacitors, then you
    can get it fixed.
    If not, it looks like a new m/b.

    Derek
     
    derek / nul, Nov 20, 2003
    #3
  4. Lurk

    Thor Guest

    What you likely have are defective capacitors (the little battery-shaped
    things) that have leaked. Many brands of motherboards had a problem in
    recent years with a few brands of faulty taiwanese capacitors. They burst
    and leak. Often, the leaked electrolyte fluid will eat into the board,
    ruining it. The usual fix is to replace the board. I have repaired several,
    so it can be done, but you need good soldering skills, and a knowledge of
    component-level repair, and a board that hasn't sustained additional
    component damage as a result of the capacitor failure. The parts themselves
    are relatively inexpensive, but your board isn't worth much anyway, given
    it's age, and it sounds like there is a good chance you may still have
    problems even if the caps are replaced. In this case, I'd scrap the board.




    ...
    "Lurk" <> wrote in message
    news:bpjcjo$e0r$...
    > You are going to have to bare with me on this one, it's a little hard to
    > explain. My friend has a motherboard (Jetway 333). Her computer has been
    > acting really wierd lately. The CPU temperature was detected at 300

    degrees
    > Celcius and the vcore was exessively high. I opened up the computer and

    had
    > a look and I found 7 battery shaped things on the motherboard (I don't

    know
    > what they are). These battery shaped things had a brown powder stuff all
    > over them which I thought was unusual. I scraped the brown stuff off and

    it
    > looked a bit like rust, except it was powder. Is this normal, and what is
    > this brown stuff? I'm wondering whether she needs to completely scrap the
    > board and buy a new one.
    >
    > I hope this makes sense.
    >
    > -
    > Lurk
    >
    >
     
    Thor, Nov 20, 2003
    #4
  5. Lurk

    Kenny Guest

    These duff capacitors are starting to turn up now in cheaper DVD players,
    brands like Bush, Roadstar, Alba etc. They cause a lot of collateral damage
    in the PSU and usually leave it beyond repair, usually just out of warranty!

    --

    Kenny


    "Thor" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > What you likely have are defective capacitors (the little battery-shaped
    > things) that have leaked. Many brands of motherboards had a problem in
    > recent years with a few brands of faulty taiwanese capacitors. They burst
    > and leak. Often, the leaked electrolyte fluid will eat into the board,
    > ruining it. The usual fix is to replace the board. I have repaired

    several,
    > so it can be done, but you need good soldering skills, and a knowledge of
    > component-level repair, and a board that hasn't sustained additional
    > component damage as a result of the capacitor failure. The parts

    themselves
    > are relatively inexpensive, but your board isn't worth much anyway, given
    > it's age, and it sounds like there is a good chance you may still have
    > problems even if the caps are replaced. In this case, I'd scrap the board.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ..
    > "Lurk" <> wrote in message
    > news:bpjcjo$e0r$...
    > > You are going to have to bare with me on this one, it's a little hard to
    > > explain. My friend has a motherboard (Jetway 333). Her computer has been
    > > acting really wierd lately. The CPU temperature was detected at 300

    > degrees
    > > Celcius and the vcore was exessively high. I opened up the computer and

    > had
    > > a look and I found 7 battery shaped things on the motherboard (I don't

    > know
    > > what they are). These battery shaped things had a brown powder stuff all
    > > over them which I thought was unusual. I scraped the brown stuff off and

    > it
    > > looked a bit like rust, except it was powder. Is this normal, and what

    is
    > > this brown stuff? I'm wondering whether she needs to completely scrap

    the
    > > board and buy a new one.
    > >
    > > I hope this makes sense.
    > >
    > > -
    > > Lurk
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Kenny, Nov 21, 2003
    #5
  6. >From: derek / nul
    >Newsgroups: alt.computer
    >Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:08:03 +1100


    >
    >On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:44:25 +0000 (UTC), "Lurk" <> wrote:
    >
    >>You are going to have to bare with me on this one, it's a little hard to
    >>explain. My friend has a motherboard (Jetway 333). Her computer has been
    >>acting really wierd lately. The CPU temperature was detected at 300 degrees
    >>Celcius and the vcore was exessively high. I opened up the computer and had
    >>a look and I found 7 battery shaped things on the motherboard (I don't know
    >>what they are). These battery shaped things had a brown powder stuff all
    >>over them which I thought was unusual. I scraped the brown stuff off and it
    >>looked a bit like rust, except it was powder. Is this normal, and what is
    >>this brown stuff? I'm wondering whether she needs to completely scrap the
    >>board and buy a new one.

    >
    >There were a batch of faulty capacitors user by a number of m/b
    >manufacturers.
    >If you can find someone interested in replacing the faulty capacitors, then
    >you
    >can get it fixed.
    >If not, it looks like a new m/b.
    >
    >Derek


    I doubt it would be cost-effective to pay someone to repair a mobo, when you
    factor, in labor and parts, not to mention waiting time. Quicker, cheaper to
    buy a new mobo.




    - -- - -- - --
    -- - -- - - -- - - - -- - - -- --
    - -- - - - -- - -- - -- -- -- -- - -- -
    --
    Necessity is the Mother of invention.

    I'd tell you a secret, but it wouldn't be a secret anymore.
     
    caveat lector - reader beware, Nov 21, 2003
    #6
  7. Lurk

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    pAmNot ( caveat lector - reader beware) wrote in
    news::

    > I doubt it would be cost-effective to pay someone to repair a mobo,
    > when you factor, in labor and parts, not to mention waiting time.
    > Quicker, cheaper to buy a new mobo.


    You don't have a clue what you are talking about. If someone said "Hey,
    I'll fix your blown caps on your motherboard for $30" and it was a $150
    motherboard, you'd take the offer too

    --
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
    email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
     
    DeMoN LaG, Nov 21, 2003
    #7
  8. Lurk

    Fred Guest

    Yep. Bad caps.
    http://www.badcaps.com/
    http://www.motherboardrepair.com/index.php?sec=faq

    Lurk wrote:
    > You are going to have to bare with me on this one, it's a little hard to
    > explain. My friend has a motherboard (Jetway 333). Her computer has been
    > acting really wierd lately. The CPU temperature was detected at 300

    degrees
    > Celcius and the vcore was exessively high. I opened up the computer and

    had
    > a look and I found 7 battery shaped things on the motherboard (I don't

    know
    > what they are). These battery shaped things had a brown powder stuff all
    > over them which I thought was unusual. I scraped the brown stuff off and

    it
    > looked a bit like rust, except it was powder. Is this normal, and what is
    > this brown stuff? I'm wondering whether she needs to completely scrap the
    > board and buy a new one.
    >
    > I hope this makes sense.
    >
    > -
    > Lurk
     
    Fred, Nov 21, 2003
    #8
  9. Lurk

    Jerry G. Guest

    This sounds like some of the capacitors failed. An experienced tech can
    replace these for you. The cost of the smaller caps are only up to a few
    dollars each. The labour to change a dozen caps or so would be about an
    hour or so to do the job. Any good TV service shop would have the proper
    soldering tools and someone with the skills to identify the caps from their
    labelling, and change them for you. Naturally they would not be able to
    guarantee the mother board, but I would gamble on it.

    --

    Greetings,

    Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
    =========================================
    WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
    Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
    =========================================


    "Lurk" <> wrote in message
    news:bpjcjo$e0r$...
    You are going to have to bare with me on this one, it's a little hard to
    explain. My friend has a motherboard (Jetway 333). Her computer has been
    acting really wierd lately. The CPU temperature was detected at 300 degrees
    Celcius and the vcore was exessively high. I opened up the computer and had
    a look and I found 7 battery shaped things on the motherboard (I don't know
    what they are). These battery shaped things had a brown powder stuff all
    over them which I thought was unusual. I scraped the brown stuff off and it
    looked a bit like rust, except it was powder. Is this normal, and what is
    this brown stuff? I'm wondering whether she needs to completely scrap the
    board and buy a new one.

    I hope this makes sense.

    -
    Lurk
     
    Jerry G., Nov 21, 2003
    #9
  10. Lurk

    JustJoe Guest

    Ok Demon I.. I have agreed with you in the past and Caveat has certainly
    posted some replies that deserved the harsh replies he got from them but in
    this case I can't say he is wrong because he is not. I doubt seriously you
    could find a repair shop willing to do this repair for $30 if fact I doubt
    many would even be willing to attempt the repair for $50 because until they
    replace the obvious blown capacitors there is no way they can be sure that
    there was not other collateral damage done to the board when the capacitors
    blew. This is a catch 22 situation if there ever was one. A repair shop
    would be a fool to say for $50 dollars I will replace these capacitor and
    guarantee to return to you your board in perfect working order. A customer
    would be a fool to say I will pay you $50 to replace these capacitors and
    accept the board in what ever condition it is in after that regardless.
    In this case Caveat is right. This is a low end board that could be
    replaced with a comparable one for $50-$75. My opinion is that the money
    would be better spent buying a new one with a warranty.
    Sorry Demon but Caveat wins this this one. I will say though in your
    hypothetical situation if I had a board that would cost $150 to replace and
    a shop was willing to guarantee to fix it for $30 and I owe nothing if they
    do not fix it, that yes I would take that offer.

    Joe

    "DeMoN LaG" <n@a> wrote in message
    news:Xns943AA8EA6AA93Wobbly@216.168.3.30...
    > pAmNot ( caveat lector - reader beware) wrote in
    > news::
    >
    > > I doubt it would be cost-effective to pay someone to repair a mobo,
    > > when you factor, in labor and parts, not to mention waiting time.
    > > Quicker, cheaper to buy a new mobo.

    >
    > You don't have a clue what you are talking about. If someone said "Hey,
    > I'll fix your blown caps on your motherboard for $30" and it was a $150
    > motherboard, you'd take the offer too
    >
    > --
    > AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
    > email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
    > website: under construction
    > Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    > email/IM for rates/services
     
    JustJoe, Nov 22, 2003
    #10
  11. Lurk

    Thor Guest

    In my experience with this problem, and from what I have read, there usually
    isn't any "collateral damage" to the other components as long as the
    electrolyte didn't have a chance to eat into the motherboard, or the coil
    near the caps hasn't overheated (I've personally not seen one yet that did).
    Often you can get one with just the bulging caps, and they are quite
    repairable. As I stated to the OP I think his case is a little more severe,
    especially if the CPU did severely overheat. But, if you check sites like
    that of Gary Headlee charge $50 on average to repair them, including the
    return shipping. If the board is expensive to begin with, or (as is fairly
    common) harder to replace like a slot-1 board, a $50 repair may well be
    worth it. I can easily see the situation where even if you get a new board,
    you can usually expect to add at least an hour's worth of labor onto the
    repair bill for having to get windows up and running after switching the
    Mobo. If the existing board is repaired, you are usually spared that extra
    expense at the repair shop.

    http://www.motherboardrepair.com/index.php?sec=faq

    ...
    "JustJoe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Ok Demon I.. I have agreed with you in the past and Caveat has certainly
    > posted some replies that deserved the harsh replies he got from them but

    in
    > this case I can't say he is wrong because he is not. I doubt seriously you
    > could find a repair shop willing to do this repair for $30 if fact I doubt
    > many would even be willing to attempt the repair for $50 because until

    they
    > replace the obvious blown capacitors there is no way they can be sure that
    > there was not other collateral damage done to the board when the

    capacitors
    > blew. This is a catch 22 situation if there ever was one. A repair shop
    > would be a fool to say for $50 dollars I will replace these capacitor and
    > guarantee to return to you your board in perfect working order. A customer
    > would be a fool to say I will pay you $50 to replace these capacitors and
    > accept the board in what ever condition it is in after that regardless.
    > In this case Caveat is right. This is a low end board that could be
    > replaced with a comparable one for $50-$75. My opinion is that the money
    > would be better spent buying a new one with a warranty.
    > Sorry Demon but Caveat wins this this one. I will say though in your
    > hypothetical situation if I had a board that would cost $150 to replace

    and
    > a shop was willing to guarantee to fix it for $30 and I owe nothing if

    they
    > do not fix it, that yes I would take that offer.
    >
    > Joe
    >
    > "DeMoN LaG" <n@a> wrote in message
    > news:Xns943AA8EA6AA93Wobbly@216.168.3.30...
    > > pAmNot ( caveat lector - reader beware) wrote in
    > > news::
    > >
    > > > I doubt it would be cost-effective to pay someone to repair a mobo,
    > > > when you factor, in labor and parts, not to mention waiting time.
    > > > Quicker, cheaper to buy a new mobo.

    > >
    > > You don't have a clue what you are talking about. If someone said "Hey,
    > > I'll fix your blown caps on your motherboard for $30" and it was a $150
    > > motherboard, you'd take the offer too
    > >
    > > --
    > > AIM: FrznFoodClerk (actually me)
    > > email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
    > > website: under construction
    > > Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    > > email/IM for rates/services

    >
    >
     
    Thor, Nov 22, 2003
    #11
  12. Lurk

    Guest

    Interesting discussion. A question and a couple of comments.

    Does any of this deal with the problem of why the board overheated in
    the first place?

    I am near SF. Nobody picks up a soldering iron for less that $50.

    Sounds like something I might try myself for amusement, even though
    I've only soldered 2-3 times in my life.

    Seems better to put the money aside, not for a new mb, but a whole new
    computer.

    Roy - Carpe Noctem
     
    , Nov 22, 2003
    #12
  13. Lurk

    Guest

    On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:44:25 +0000 (UTC), "Lurk" <> wrote:

    >You are going to have to bare with me ...


    But I hardly know you.

    Roy - Carpe Noctem
     
    , Nov 22, 2003
    #13
  14. Lurk

    Thor Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Interesting discussion. A question and a couple of comments.
    >
    > Does any of this deal with the problem of why the board overheated in
    > the first place?


    It may, or may not have truly overheated. The sensor reading may have been
    false as a result of the malfunctioning circuitry, or it might have
    overheated as a result of the failing caps, as they do factor into the
    voltage regulation circuit for the CPU, but I've never seen, or heard of
    that happening with this problem.

    >
    > I am near SF. Nobody picks up a soldering iron for less that $50.


    Gary Headlee fixes most boards for exactly that, including the return
    shipping, and even provides a 1 year warranty on his work. He fully tests
    the boards before sending them back. So there are places that will fix them
    for that much. I'm not saying you should send yours off, but knowing there
    is a place to send it, doesn't hurt either. You might also try contacting
    the motherboard manufacturer. They may replace it. It's worth a try. All
    they can say is "no".

    >
    > Sounds like something I might try myself for amusement, even though
    > I've only soldered 2-3 times in my life.


    First of all, make sure you get the proper capacitors. A replacement with a
    higher voltage rating is fine, but the capacitance value must match exactly,
    and you must take note of the diameter and height of the original caps, so
    the proper replacements will fit in the original spot correctly. The caps
    you will need are most likely "Low ESR" type electrolytic capacitors.
    Nichicon is a good brand of replacement. Pay attention to the polarity of
    the capacitor. There is a positive and negative lead, and you have to follow
    the marking on the side of the capacitor to tell which lead is which, and
    make note of which way they go into the board. Installing one with reversed
    polarity is asking for a capacitor explosion. You'll need a relatively high
    temperature soldering iron, a vacuum-type solder removal tool, and some
    small diameter solder wire made for fine electronics work. Flux is a
    consideration as you'll need to get good flow-through to the opposite side
    of the board. Rosin flux is fine, but you must clean it off with flux
    remover or alcohol when you are done, as rosin flux tends to be corrosive to
    the board. Organic flux isn't corrosive, and does a better job, but you
    still need to clean up the excess, as organic flux doesn't really dry well.
    You also need to be careful not to overheat the solder pads, or you may
    cause it to lift off the board. Do not use excessive amounts of solder, or
    you'll likely bridge an adjacent connection. Then, on the other side of the
    coin, solder pads that are part of a ground plane will need just about all
    the heat an iron can muster to heat the connection enough to get good
    flow-through to the opposite side. So you'll probably want an iron with a
    temperature control.

    Still want to try this yourself? :)

    >
    > Seems better to put the money aside, not for a new mb, but a whole new
    > computer.
    >
    > Roy - Carpe Noctem
     
    Thor, Nov 22, 2003
    #14
  15. Lurk

    V W Wall Guest

    Thor wrote:
    >
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Interesting discussion. A question and a couple of comments.
    > >
    > > Does any of this deal with the problem of why the board overheated in
    > > the first place?

    >
    > It may, or may not have truly overheated. The sensor reading may have been
    > false as a result of the malfunctioning circuitry, or it might have
    > overheated as a result of the failing caps, as they do factor into the
    > voltage regulation circuit for the CPU, but I've never seen, or heard of
    > that happening with this problem.
    >
    > >
    > > I am near SF. Nobody picks up a soldering iron for less that $50.

    >
    > Gary Headlee fixes most boards for exactly that, including the return
    > shipping, and even provides a 1 year warranty on his work. He fully tests
    > the boards before sending them back. So there are places that will fix them
    > for that much. I'm not saying you should send yours off, but knowing there
    > is a place to send it, doesn't hurt either. You might also try contacting
    > the motherboard manufacturer. They may replace it. It's worth a try. All
    > they can say is "no".
    >
    > >
    > > Sounds like something I might try myself for amusement, even though
    > > I've only soldered 2-3 times in my life.

    >
    > First of all, make sure you get the proper capacitors. A replacement with a
    > higher voltage rating is fine, but the capacitance value must match exactly,
    > and you must take note of the diameter and height of the original caps, so
    > the proper replacements will fit in the original spot correctly. The caps
    > you will need are most likely "Low ESR" type electrolytic capacitors.
    > Nichicon is a good brand of replacement. Pay attention to the polarity of
    > the capacitor. There is a positive and negative lead, and you have to follow
    > the marking on the side of the capacitor to tell which lead is which, and
    > make note of which way they go into the board. Installing one with reversed
    > polarity is asking for a capacitor explosion. You'll need a relatively high
    > temperature soldering iron, a vacuum-type solder removal tool, and some
    > small diameter solder wire made for fine electronics work. Flux is a
    > consideration as you'll need to get good flow-through to the opposite side
    > of the board. Rosin flux is fine, but you must clean it off with flux
    > remover or alcohol when you are done, as rosin flux tends to be corrosive to
    > the board. Organic flux isn't corrosive, and does a better job, but you
    > still need to clean up the excess, as organic flux doesn't really dry well.
    > You also need to be careful not to overheat the solder pads, or you may
    > cause it to lift off the board. Do not use excessive amounts of solder, or
    > you'll likely bridge an adjacent connection. Then, on the other side of the
    > coin, solder pads that are part of a ground plane will need just about all
    > the heat an iron can muster to heat the connection enough to get good
    > flow-through to the opposite side. So you'll probably want an iron with a
    > temperature control.
    >
    > Still want to try this yourself? :)


    Just a comment: I know you've done this before, but here's a little trick
    to make it easier. Put the soldering iron (35 W or so) on a Variac controlled
    outlet. When you find one of those ground plane things, crank it up to ~135 V
    or so. It's better than a temperature controlled iron, which can't read your
    mind.

    Variac's aren't as cheap as they once were, but make a very useful device for
    checking system response to line voltage variation. Just don't forget they're
    not an isolation transformer!

    > > Seems better to put the money aside, not for a new mb, but a whole new
    > > computer.


    There's still some satisfaction in getting things back to working like they're
    supposed to.

    VBirg Wall
    --

    A foolish consistency is the
    hobgoblin of little minds,........
    Ralph Waldo Emerson
    (Microsoft programmer's manual.)
     
    V W Wall, Nov 22, 2003
    #15
  16. Lurk

    Thor Guest


    > Just a comment: I know you've done this before, but here's a little trick
    > to make it easier. Put the soldering iron (35 W or so) on a Variac

    controlled
    > outlet. When you find one of those ground plane things, crank it up to

    ~135 V
    > or so. It's better than a temperature controlled iron, which can't read

    your
    > mind.


    Well, I have a nice weller anti-stat DC soldering station with a temp
    control that goes up to 800 degrees or so, but that is a handy idea for
    someone without such an expensive setup. :)
     
    Thor, Nov 22, 2003
    #16
  17. Lurk

    V W Wall Guest

    Thor wrote:
    >
    > > Just a comment: I know you've done this before, but here's a little trick
    > > to make it easier. Put the soldering iron (35 W or so) on a Variac

    > controlled
    > > outlet. When you find one of those ground plane things, crank it up to

    > ~135 V
    > > or so. It's better than a temperature controlled iron, which can't read

    > your
    > > mind.

    >
    > Well, I have a nice weller anti-stat DC soldering station with a temp
    > control that goes up to 800 degrees or so, but that is a handy idea for
    > someone without such an expensive setup. :)


    You're correct. Weller now has a soldering station for about $45, and
    a 500VA variable transformer is about $75. I've had a 1000VA General
    Radio Variac since I started working on electronics. It is useful in
    checking out ATX power supplies for performance at low line voltage,
    but not the sort of thing everyone would have.

    Virg Wall
     
    V W Wall, Nov 22, 2003
    #17
  18. Did you smell it??

    I think the obvious answer is that the motherboard shit itself!!! LMAO ((c:
     
    Mike the Kiwi, Nov 23, 2003
    #18
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