Stay away from jajah

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by naysolal@yahoo.com, Dec 4, 2006.

  1. Guest

    After evaluating the jajah service for several weeks I came to the
    conclusion that we are dealing here with a scamming company that is
    relying on naive or ignorant users.

    The company will provide you with a few free phone calls - and then
    pull the sting opreation: without any notice or alert it will charge a
    free call as non-free, deplete your account to a level where you can no
    longer make free calls (even to active members), forcing you to pay
    ransom to unlock your account.

    Thereafter the trick will continue... You make a call for 30 minutes,
    they charge you for 45 minutes. They will keep overcharging your
    account until... you notice it of course.

    If you attempt to resolve this with their "JAJAH support", they will
    keep stonewalling you evasive answers and when that doesn't help, they
    will intimidate you with rude replies. Read for yourself in their
    "support" forums:

    http://forum.jajah.com/viewforum.php?f=2

    You can try that service and see for yourself - it is free - until...
    (you get the picture)

    Just a friendly warning to all the unsuspecting folks out there. :)

    Naysolal
     
    , Dec 4, 2006
    #1
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  2. News Reader Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > After evaluating the jajah service for several weeks I came to the
    > conclusion that we are dealing here with a scamming company that is
    > relying on naive or ignorant users.
    >
    > The company will provide you with a few free phone calls - and then
    > pull the sting opreation: without any notice or alert it will charge a
    > free call as non-free, deplete your account to a level where you can no
    > longer make free calls (even to active members), forcing you to pay
    > ransom to unlock your account.
    >
    > Thereafter the trick will continue... You make a call for 30 minutes,
    > they charge you for 45 minutes. They will keep overcharging your
    > account until... you notice it of course.
    >
    > If you attempt to resolve this with their "JAJAH support", they will
    > keep stonewalling you evasive answers and when that doesn't help, they
    > will intimidate you with rude replies. Read for yourself in their
    > "support" forums:
    >
    > http://forum.jajah.com/viewforum.php?f=2
    >
    > You can try that service and see for yourself - it is free - until...
    > (you get the picture)
    >
    > Just a friendly warning to all the unsuspecting folks out there. :)
    >
    > Naysolal
    >



    As I understand it their are strict rules to ensure qualification of "free"
    calls.

    One slip up can mean you fall outside of the freecalls categorisation and
    have to pay and / or subsequently re-enable your account for free calls (a
    free process itself).

    Further, given the nature of the service, I think the idea is pretty
    straightforward... knowing its nature, always verify (as their system
    facilitates - easily!), that the given call is indeed going to be recorded
    as "free" by their systems.

    (Note: their are fixed limits - you need to review their terms in detail -
    their is at least one very useful forum post all about the free calls - e.g.
    maximum 1000 minutes per month I think it is, etc.).

    This is how a lot of these "free" call providers operate - e.g. Gizmo
    project, etc. (i.e. restrictive or awkward / difficult terms - so many /
    most will slip up at one point or another or just pay because it is easier /
    might seem a bit easier / etc.).


    Best wishes,




    News Reader
     
    News Reader, Dec 4, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Guest

    Dear Naysolal,

    I'm sorry for this inconvenience and I can assure you that we are
    definitely not trying to deceive any of our users. The free calls
    depend on our "Fair Use Policy" which kindly asks you to stay in a
    reasonable amount of free calling, afterwards our low rates apply for
    the call. You can find the details here
    http://www.jajah.com/info/help/faq/freecalls/ and here
    http://www.jajah.com/info/rates/

    The costs of the call or saying that it is a free call will always show
    up before you make the call next to the call button.

    We are not overcharging our customers. If this happened to you I'm
    sorry for that, I will check back with our development team if there
    might be a bug and we will of course reimburse you for any overcharge.
    I will get back to you by email to handle this.

    Usually our support answers accordingly within a 24 hour period and I'm
    sorry that they didn't solve your problem in time. We'll fix that now.

    Best, Frederik
     
    , Dec 4, 2006
    #3
  4. Guest

    This is the template answer I would except from any comptent public
    relations person representing a company. No surprises here. Very
    polite, formal, sometimes even pleasantly sounding - but denying all
    allegations (of course) and never taking responsibility of any sort.

    I wrote the original post after a friend of mine encountered a problem
    with your service. He followed exactly what you suggest here - to no
    avail. Instead of providing him with reasonable explanation of what
    happened, you stonewalled him with your sugar-coated verbiage tactics.
    Using your template answers, of course ("I'm sorry", "I apologize",
    etc.) - but never offering any *real* help.

    If your "sorrow" is sincere, please check your support forum again and
    try to find recent postings of customers who complained about unjust
    charges by your system but remained disappointed by your response.
    Contact them via email and resolve the problems. Once you do that, you
    can trust that I will know about that and be the first to post a follow
    up to this posting which clears your reputation.

    The onus of proof is on you. It is you who wants our money (fortunately
    there is enough competition).

    And please don't sell us the stories of having "a bug free system" -
    this makes you look bad, very bad, as it provides the less innocent
    explanation for your overcharges (intentional scamming).

    Naysolal

    P.S. For the poster mentioning the "strict rules" for free minutes:
    Mail-in rebates in the USA also have strict rules - strict but not
    impossible, strict but well documented and communicated to the
    customer. It seems that Jajah conveniently omitted some of their rules
    from the already long and very difficult to satisfy list.



    wrote:
    > Dear Naysolal,
    >
    > I'm sorry for this inconvenience and I can assure you that we are
    > definitely not trying to deceive any of our users. The free calls
    > depend on our "Fair Use Policy" which kindly asks you to stay in a
    > reasonable amount of free calling, afterwards our low rates apply for
    > the call. You can find the details here
    > http://www.jajah.com/info/help/faq/freecalls/ and here
    > http://www.jajah.com/info/rates/
    >
    > The costs of the call or saying that it is a free call will always show
    > up before you make the call next to the call button.
    >
    > We are not overcharging our customers. If this happened to you I'm
    > sorry for that, I will check back with our development team if there
    > might be a bug and we will of course reimburse you for any overcharge.
    > I will get back to you by email to handle this.
    >
    > Usually our support answers accordingly within a 24 hour period and I'm
    > sorry that they didn't solve your problem in time. We'll fix that now.
    >
    > Best, Frederik
     
    , Dec 5, 2006
    #4
  5. News Reader Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > This is the template answer I would except from any comptent public
    > relations person representing a company. No surprises here. Very
    > polite, formal, sometimes even pleasantly sounding - but denying all
    > allegations (of course) and never taking responsibility of any sort.
    >
    > I wrote the original post after a friend of mine encountered a problem
    > with your service. He followed exactly what you suggest here - to no
    > avail. Instead of providing him with reasonable explanation of what
    > happened, you stonewalled him with your sugar-coated verbiage tactics.
    > Using your template answers, of course ("I'm sorry", "I apologize",
    > etc.) - but never offering any *real* help.
    >
    > If your "sorrow" is sincere, please check your support forum again and
    > try to find recent postings of customers who complained about unjust
    > charges by your system but remained disappointed by your response.
    > Contact them via email and resolve the problems. Once you do that, you
    > can trust that I will know about that and be the first to post a follow
    > up to this posting which clears your reputation.
    >
    > The onus of proof is on you. It is you who wants our money (fortunately
    > there is enough competition).
    >
    > And please don't sell us the stories of having "a bug free system" -
    > this makes you look bad, very bad, as it provides the less innocent
    > explanation for your overcharges (intentional scamming).
    >
    > Naysolal
    >
    > P.S. For the poster mentioning the "strict rules" for free minutes:
    > Mail-in rebates in the USA also have strict rules - strict but not
    > impossible, strict but well documented and communicated to the
    > customer. It seems that Jajah conveniently omitted some of their rules
    > from the already long and very difficult to satisfy list.
    >
    >
    >
    > wrote:
    > > Dear Naysolal,
    > >
    > > I'm sorry for this inconvenience and I can assure you that we are
    > > definitely not trying to deceive any of our users. The free calls
    > > depend on our "Fair Use Policy" which kindly asks you to stay in a
    > > reasonable amount of free calling, afterwards our low rates apply for
    > > the call. You can find the details here
    > > http://www.jajah.com/info/help/faq/freecalls/ and here
    > > http://www.jajah.com/info/rates/
    > >
    > > The costs of the call or saying that it is a free call will always show
    > > up before you make the call next to the call button.
    > >
    > > We are not overcharging our customers. If this happened to you I'm
    > > sorry for that, I will check back with our development team if there
    > > might be a bug and we will of course reimburse you for any overcharge.
    > > I will get back to you by email to handle this.
    > >
    > > Usually our support answers accordingly within a 24 hour period and I'm
    > > sorry that they didn't solve your problem in time. We'll fix that now.
    > >
    > > Best, Frederik

    >


    Hi,

    Thanks for your response.

    I would suggest a general approach of using a sandtrap type method with
    these / new services. I.e. do not provide any payment or pay for any
    services initially (as / if possible), or only a very small token payment
    you are happy to lose (so that in the event of any unexpected problems or
    issues one is not really aggrieved and can move on with little or no loss).

    As I understand it, with Jajah, it is, theoretically at least, possible to
    use the service without ever generating a "charge". I am not sure if the
    user(s) in question are "paying" customers and are experiencing billing
    errors on that side (but the above "sandtrap" paragraph would apply).
    Perhaps that is a different matter (which I don't really know anything about
    [the paid side of their services] - apologies ). I can understand that if
    either due to the difficulty of ensuring and maintaining free calls, or a
    bug / error, one has generated a chargeable event, one can then feel a bit
    aggrieved / stymied - what with having had to register a phone number with
    them in the first place (and presumably having to provide them with some
    payment to resume operation). Anyhow, I understand (rightly or wrongly - and
    you could be hitting a very poignant nail on the head here), that their
    support is quite good (or posts on the forum, possibly by representatives
    suggest their support is quite good - the results may be different), and
    they will try to for example reallocate your number / reset your account if
    their has been some error / etc.

    Keep us posted.


    Best wishes,




    News Reader
     
    News Reader, Dec 6, 2006
    #5
  6. Guest

    (Just reposted with other email address)

    Dear Naysolal,

    I'm sorry for this inconvenience and I can assure you that we are
    definitely not trying to deceive any of our users. The free calls
    depend on our "Fair Use Policy" which kindly asks you to stay in a
    reasonable amount of free calling, afterwards our low rates apply for
    the call. You can find the details here
    http://www.jajah.com/info/help/faq/freecalls/ and here
    http://www.jajah.com/info/rates/

    The costs of the call or saying that it is a free call will always show
    up before you make the call next to the call button.

    We are not overcharging our customers. If this happened to you I'm
    sorry for that, I will check back with our development team if there
    might be a bug and we will of course reimburse you for any overcharge.
    I will get back to you by email to handle this.

    Usually our support answers accordingly within a 24 hour period and I'm
    sorry that they didn't solve your problem in time. We'll fix that now.

    Best, Frederik
     
    , Dec 6, 2006
    #6
  7. Guest

    Dear Naysolal,

    I actually don't quite understand your answer to my response. I do not
    work for the Jajah customer support, which is also responsable for
    handling our forum. I'm a Jajah employee working in a different country
    than our support (9 hours timeshift in between).

    I don't have template answers, I do care about our users and just
    wanted to provide an answer and my help to you. I totally admitted that
    there might be a bug and I reported this issue to our development team.
    I don't know your friends' problem, nor do I know his name or the
    specific circumstances because you posted it as your problem. I took
    and take the time to answer you in this forum, trying to help solving
    your problem.

    I wrote you an even more detailed personal email, but instead of
    answering to this email you preferred to blame more stuff on me over
    here. Don't get that, sorry.

    I'm happy to assist you or your friend in solving the described
    problem. Just get back to me by email.

    Best, Frederik
     
    , Dec 6, 2006
    #7
  8. News Reader Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Dear Naysolal,
    >
    > I actually don't quite understand your answer to my response. I do not
    > work for the Jajah customer support, which is also responsable for
    > handling our forum. I'm a Jajah employee working in a different country
    > than our support (9 hours timeshift in between).
    >
    > I don't have template answers, I do care about our users and just
    > wanted to provide an answer and my help to you. I totally admitted that
    > there might be a bug and I reported this issue to our development team.
    > I don't know your friends' problem, nor do I know his name or the
    > specific circumstances because you posted it as your problem. I took
    > and take the time to answer you in this forum, trying to help solving
    > your problem.
    >
    > I wrote you an even more detailed personal email, but instead of
    > answering to this email you preferred to blame more stuff on me over
    > here. Don't get that, sorry.
    >
    > I'm happy to assist you or your friend in solving the described
    > problem. Just get back to me by email.
    >
    > Best, Frederik
    >



    Hi,


    Well done for trying.


    Best wishes,



    News Reader
     
    News Reader, Dec 7, 2006
    #8
  9. Guest

    Thanks News Reader!

    So, if you have any questions, feedback or problems just get back to me
    by email at anytime.

    Best regards and talk JAJAH - www.jajah.com :)

    Frederik
     
    , Dec 7, 2006
    #9
  10. Guest

    I can atest to the validity of these claims, too.
    The jajah customer service sucks.
    They employ the old school approach of "good cop bad cop".
    Some of the "users" on their forums are employees who attack and bite
    like stray dogs - they must be DIBs or something...

    I found packet8 VOIP much more worthwhile. You get to pay only $20 a
    month and talk as much as you want. Packet8 has no way of overcharging
    you - even if they want to - even if you make a mistake.

    Perhaps there is better alternative than packet8 (in terms of
    inexpensive international calls), but it is certainly not jajah.

    Victor

    wrote:
    > After evaluating the jajah service for several weeks I came to the
    > conclusion that we are dealing here with a scamming company that is
    > relying on naive or ignorant users.
    >
    > The company will provide you with a few free phone calls - and then
    > pull the sting opreation: without any notice or alert it will charge a
    > free call as non-free, deplete your account to a level where you can no
    > longer make free calls (even to active members), forcing you to pay
    > ransom to unlock your account.
    >
    > Thereafter the trick will continue... You make a call for 30 minutes,
    > they charge you for 45 minutes. They will keep overcharging your
    > account until... you notice it of course.
    >
    > If you attempt to resolve this with their "JAJAH support", they will
    > keep stonewalling you evasive answers and when that doesn't help, they
    > will intimidate you with rude replies. Read for yourself in their
    > "support" forums:
    >
    > http://forum.jajah.com/viewforum.php?f=2
    >
    > You can try that service and see for yourself - it is free - until...
    > (you get the picture)
    >
    > Just a friendly warning to all the unsuspecting folks out there. :)
    >
    > Naysolal
     
    , Dec 17, 2006
    #10
  11. Ivor Jones Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:
    > I can atest to the validity of these claims, too.
    > The jajah customer service sucks.
    > They employ the old school approach of "good cop bad cop".
    > Some of the "users" on their forums are employees who
    > attack and bite like stray dogs - they must be DIBs or
    > something...
    >
    > I found packet8 VOIP much more worthwhile. You get to pay
    > only $20 a month and talk as much as you want. Packet8
    > has no way of overcharging you - even if they want to -
    > even if you make a mistake.


    $20 a month..? Hmm, [rapid mental currency conversion] even Vonage
    (yuk..!) are cheaper than that..!

    Ivor
     
    Ivor Jones, Dec 17, 2006
    #11
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