starting up

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by housetrained, Oct 27, 2011.

  1. housetrained

    housetrained Guest

    Sometimes the computer starts but sends nothing to the monitor i.e. doesn't
    start the BIOS working. When the start button is held in to turn off it
    starts again as the button is RELEASED. Sometimes this has to be repeated to
    get satisfaction. Sometimes it all starts up OK. Any ideas?
    P5NT-deluxe Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9650 @ 3.00GHz 3.00 GHz
    4GB RAM 64-Bit WIN7


    housetrained

    <><
     
    housetrained, Oct 27, 2011
    #1
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  2. housetrained

    Paul Guest

    housetrained wrote:
    > Sometimes the computer starts but sends nothing to the monitor i.e.
    > doesn't start the BIOS working. When the start button is held in to turn
    > off it starts again as the button is RELEASED. Sometimes this has to be
    > repeated to get satisfaction. Sometimes it all starts up OK. Any ideas?
    > P5NT-deluxe Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9650 @ 3.00GHz 3.00 GHz
    > 4GB RAM 64-Bit WIN7
    >
    > housetrained
    >
    > <><



    It appears to be a cranky motherboard, looking at some of the threads over here.

    http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx...d=1&model=P5N-T Deluxe&page=1&SLanguage=en-us

    If you're not getting any "error beep pattern" from the speaker, it
    probably means the processor crashed, early in the POST sequence. If
    the board eventually starts, that's half the battle. You can try
    simplifying the hardware setup (remove stuff) and retest, but
    even if you changed out the RAM, some of those Nvidia boards just
    aren't happy campers. You can check the reviews here, for similar
    evidence. (As an alternative to using the power button all the time,
    if the power is running you can try using RESET instead. Some cases
    don't have a RESET, in which case purchase a twisted pair cable and
    button for it somewhere.)

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131247

    The warranty period, starts the day the board leaves the factory.
    On my motherboard, the board sat in the retailers shop for 1.5 years,
    leaving me with 1.5 years of warranty period. So while the warranty is
    nominally 3 years, that only happens if you buy from a "high traffic
    shop" and it just came out of the packing crate. The lead two characters
    of the serial number, note the year and month of manufacture, and the
    warranty end date is based on that info.

    And even if you did have warranty service, I see no reason to believe
    the board returned to you, would be any better. If it gets worse,
    and eventually won't start at all (i.e. powers but won't POST), you
    can always look for another LGA775 motherboard. Your processor is
    worth keeping.

    In terms of the logic onboard, the power button is a momentary contact
    switch. They can choose to trigger a state change, on the falling or
    rising edge of the active low pulse from the switch, which could be
    why it starts on release. But the button should be consistent in
    behavior. If it starts on rising edge of button when the board was
    new, it should be doing the same thing today. The behavior shouldn't
    change on a whim.

    The chips on board, "latch" the power button state change, converting
    a momentary pulse from the switch, into a solid logic 1 or logic 0 on
    the PS_ON# signal. When the OS is running, that same logic has a
    four second timer as well, and it waits until the power button is
    pressed for four seconds, before doing a state change to OFF. I mention
    this, just to indicate that the power button behavior isn't "simple",
    as it goes through motherboard logic. So if the behavior makes no
    sense, remember that both the switch itself (i.e. jammed down) and
    the logic on the motherboard, affect what happens to the PS_ON# on
    the power supply cable that gets the ATX supply main output to run.
    If there is cranky behavior, it could be the power to that logic,
    power supply startup timing, power supply Power_Good type signal,
    lots of little things. In many cases, the cure is motherboard
    replacement.

    If you suspected a "crushed button" on the computer case, you can
    swap the RESET and POWER cables, and swap the role of the buttons.
    I've done that, and used my tiny RESET button as the power switch.
    That's to rule out the switch itself as the issue. Or,
    disconnect the POWER button cable, and put the RESET button cable
    in its place. You can play some games there, to see if it is
    actually the button causing the problem. A system doesn't need
    both power and reset, and just connecting the power switch to the panel
    header is enough.

    On some motherboards, startup behavior changes if the CMOS battery
    goes dead. You can take the battery to your local Radio Shack and
    have them test it, or use your own multimeter, and take a reading
    off the top of the battery (using chassis as ground). When fresh,
    it should read a bit higher than 3.0V. If it drops to around 2.3V,
    it should be changed (as the Southbridge typically needs 2.0V and
    a Schottky diode in the path needs another 0.3V, for a total of around
    2.3V minimum).

    When the battery is completely flat, for unknown reasons, some
    motherboards won't start. In theory, the dual diode in the power path,
    should be getting power from the ATX power supply, such that the battery
    state can't prevent startup - but apparently that theory isn't of much
    use when the board appears totally dead. It really should not be that
    dependent on battery state. I doubt your symptoms are battery related,
    but it's something else you can check while you're in there. The
    battery can last 3 to 10 years, depending on usage pattern.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Oct 27, 2011
    #2
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  3. housetrained

    housetrained Guest

    "Paul" wrote in message news:j8b5oc$ha5$...

    housetrained wrote:
    > Sometimes the computer starts but sends nothing to the monitor i.e.
    > doesn't start the BIOS working. When the start button is held in to turn
    > off it starts again as the button is RELEASED. Sometimes this has to be
    > repeated to get satisfaction. Sometimes it all starts up OK. Any ideas?
    > P5NT-deluxe Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9650 @ 3.00GHz 3.00 GHz
    > 4GB RAM 64-Bit WIN7
    >
    > housetrained
    >
    > <><



    It appears to be a cranky motherboard, looking at some of the threads over
    here.

    http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx...d=1&model=P5N-T Deluxe&page=1&SLanguage=en-us

    If you're not getting any "error beep pattern" from the speaker, it
    probably means the processor crashed, early in the POST sequence. If
    the board eventually starts, that's half the battle. You can try
    simplifying the hardware setup (remove stuff) and retest, but
    even if you changed out the RAM, some of those Nvidia boards just
    aren't happy campers. You can check the reviews here, for similar
    evidence. (As an alternative to using the power button all the time,
    if the power is running you can try using RESET instead. Some cases
    don't have a RESET, in which case purchase a twisted pair cable and
    button for it somewhere.)

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131247

    The warranty period, starts the day the board leaves the factory.
    On my motherboard, the board sat in the retailers shop for 1.5 years,
    leaving me with 1.5 years of warranty period. So while the warranty is
    nominally 3 years, that only happens if you buy from a "high traffic
    shop" and it just came out of the packing crate. The lead two characters
    of the serial number, note the year and month of manufacture, and the
    warranty end date is based on that info.

    And even if you did have warranty service, I see no reason to believe
    the board returned to you, would be any better. If it gets worse,
    and eventually won't start at all (i.e. powers but won't POST), you
    can always look for another LGA775 motherboard. Your processor is
    worth keeping.

    In terms of the logic onboard, the power button is a momentary contact
    switch. They can choose to trigger a state change, on the falling or
    rising edge of the active low pulse from the switch, which could be
    why it starts on release. But the button should be consistent in
    behavior. If it starts on rising edge of button when the board was
    new, it should be doing the same thing today. The behavior shouldn't
    change on a whim.

    The chips on board, "latch" the power button state change, converting
    a momentary pulse from the switch, into a solid logic 1 or logic 0 on
    the PS_ON# signal. When the OS is running, that same logic has a
    four second timer as well, and it waits until the power button is
    pressed for four seconds, before doing a state change to OFF. I mention
    this, just to indicate that the power button behavior isn't "simple",
    as it goes through motherboard logic. So if the behavior makes no
    sense, remember that both the switch itself (i.e. jammed down) and
    the logic on the motherboard, affect what happens to the PS_ON# on
    the power supply cable that gets the ATX supply main output to run.
    If there is cranky behavior, it could be the power to that logic,
    power supply startup timing, power supply Power_Good type signal,
    lots of little things. In many cases, the cure is motherboard
    replacement.

    If you suspected a "crushed button" on the computer case, you can
    swap the RESET and POWER cables, and swap the role of the buttons.
    I've done that, and used my tiny RESET button as the power switch.
    That's to rule out the switch itself as the issue. Or,
    disconnect the POWER button cable, and put the RESET button cable
    in its place. You can play some games there, to see if it is
    actually the button causing the problem. A system doesn't need
    both power and reset, and just connecting the power switch to the panel
    header is enough.

    On some motherboards, startup behavior changes if the CMOS battery
    goes dead. You can take the battery to your local Radio Shack and
    have them test it, or use your own multimeter, and take a reading
    off the top of the battery (using chassis as ground). When fresh,
    it should read a bit higher than 3.0V. If it drops to around 2.3V,
    it should be changed (as the Southbridge typically needs 2.0V and
    a Schottky diode in the path needs another 0.3V, for a total of around
    2.3V minimum).

    When the battery is completely flat, for unknown reasons, some
    motherboards won't start. In theory, the dual diode in the power path,
    should be getting power from the ATX power supply, such that the battery
    state can't prevent startup - but apparently that theory isn't of much
    use when the board appears totally dead. It really should not be that
    dependent on battery state. I doubt your symptoms are battery related,
    but it's something else you can check while you're in there. The
    battery can last 3 to 10 years, depending on usage pattern.

    Paul

    Thanks for that - been suspicious of the MB for a while now - that just
    about confirms it.
    housetrained
     
    housetrained, Oct 27, 2011
    #3
  4. "housetrained" <> wrote in message
    news:j8at3q$45f$...
    > Sometimes the computer starts but sends nothing to the monitor i.e.
    > doesn't start the BIOS working. When the start button is held in to turn
    > off it starts again as the button is RELEASED. Sometimes this has to be
    > repeated to get satisfaction. Sometimes it all starts up OK. Any ideas?
    > P5NT-deluxe Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9650 @ 3.00GHz 3.00 GHz
    > 4GB RAM 64-Bit WIN7
    >


    If you have added stuff to the machine (especially USB devices), and it
    still has the factory power supply, then you might be overloading the power
    supply, preventing the needed power to go to the other parts of the system.
    A power supply delivers the voltages listed until the power drawn exceeds
    that which can be produced. When this happens, the expected voltage falls in
    an effort to boost the available power.

    Try unplugging the extra USB loads to see if the machine boots better. If it
    does, then you might need to consider replacing the power supply.

    Another thing to look at is the BIOS. Particularly the Boot Sequence. If the
    boot sequence includes looking at a USB hard drive, and there is one but it
    does not contain bootable information then it can take a very long time for
    the machine to go through the drive to discover it does not boot, and then
    move on to the next boot device in the system. Your boot sequence should
    list the CD/DVD as the first device, by the way. This allows you to boot to
    a CD/DVD in the event your machine looses the boot sector of the HDD --
    which, by the way, sounds like what you might be experiencing.

    The machine turns on, goes through the BIOS, scans for the bootable device,
    then boots. You are describing a symptom that suggests the boot sector of
    the bootable device is damaged. So, your problems can be a weak power
    supply, an issue with RAM, and a boot sector problem. Pretty much in that
    order -- which is also the order of costliness. You need a troubleshooting
    technique that can focus on each item separately so when you stumble onto a
    working machine, you know what you did most recently that caused it.

    You troubleshoot the RAM by removing the module that is not in the first
    slot, and then seeing if the machine starts properly, then swapping that
    module with the one that you removed and looking again. You said you have 4G
    of RAM, I assume two 2G sticks (modules). If so, then you have one module in
    Slot 0 and another in Slot 1. Remove from 1 and start on 0 only. Then swap 1
    & 0 so you start still on 0, but with the stick that came out of 1. One of
    these should freeze the machine if the RAM is the problem.

    So, remove the USB devices that are not needed. If you have USB mouse and
    keyboard, then also try replacing them with the older PS2 type just to
    completely remove the extra loads that may exist. If the machine worked a
    few days ago, and you added a new USB device, then remove the new device
    first and see if the machine straightens out. Remove the mouse and keyboard
    as a last resort to unburden the power supply, the odds are strong that the
    mouse and keyboard are not the tipping point, but if you recently added a
    printer/scanner, then this could easily be the problem so unplug it first.
    Also, any external USB drives should be unplugged. After this, and the
    machine still is acting up, then start swapping the RAM modules around to
    see if they are creating a problem. The RAM does a self test of sorts, and
    if the test does not progress properly, then the machine will halt. On a
    re-boot, the test may go okay, and the machine boots. Finally, if you still
    have problems, then the boot sector of the HDD could be failing.

    Don't forget to look in the BIOS (machine set up) to see if there is a USB
    HDD boot device that is ahead of the standard HDD, and if there is AND the
    USB HDD is not bootable, then remove it from the sequence, or remove the HDD
    from the system so it is not quiried for boot information.
     
    Jeff Strickland, Oct 27, 2011
    #4
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