Stars with a D100

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Alex Alternator, Aug 14, 2003.

  1. I apologize for repeating a topic.

    I'm shooting with a D100. I use it for photo journalism and it is my best
    friend. I took my friends out the other night to shoot the rather
    unexciting meteor shower and set it up to take a long exposure of the sky in
    hopes of capturing one of those then illusive streaks of burning rock. I
    got the exposures right and I can see a nice smattering of stars all turning
    about one central point but there is a LOT of noise after the 20 minute
    exposure. I had NR turned on but its still there. Are there any tricks or
    general good practices that could help reduce the noise?

    many thanks - Alex
    Alex Alternator, Aug 14, 2003
    #1
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  2. Alex Alternator

    George Kerby Guest

    On 8/14/03 11:27 AM, in article , "Alex
    Alternator" <> wrote:

    > I apologize for repeating a topic.
    >
    > I'm shooting with a D100. I use it for photo journalism and it is my best
    > friend. I took my friends out the other night to shoot the rather
    > unexciting meteor shower and set it up to take a long exposure of the sky in
    > hopes of capturing one of those then illusive streaks of burning rock. I
    > got the exposures right and I can see a nice smattering of stars all turning
    > about one central point but there is a LOT of noise after the 20 minute
    > exposure. I had NR turned on but its still there. Are there any tricks or
    > general good practices that could help reduce the noise?
    >
    > many thanks - Alex
    >
    >

    It's called "film". Consumer digital cameras heat up too much on long
    exposures causing noise. If you want to shoot digital long exposures, spend
    about $20K for a chilled medium format back.


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    George Kerby, Aug 14, 2003
    #2
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  3. Alex Alternator

    Ron Manfredi Guest

    Do a search for "dark frame subtraction". I remember reading the technique, but
    am not sure of exactly how to do it. I do remember that it involves taking a
    dark frame (lens cap on) at the same ISO and shutter speed as the main exposure,
    but after that I am not sure.
    Try:
    http://www.astronomysite.com/mapug/3/msg3443.htm

    Ron

    Alex Alternator wrote:

    > I apologize for repeating a topic.
    >
    > I'm shooting with a D100. I use it for photo journalism and it is my best
    > friend. I took my friends out the other night to shoot the rather
    > unexciting meteor shower and set it up to take a long exposure of the sky in
    > hopes of capturing one of those then illusive streaks of burning rock. I
    > got the exposures right and I can see a nice smattering of stars all turning
    > about one central point but there is a LOT of noise after the 20 minute
    > exposure. I had NR turned on but its still there. Are there any tricks or
    > general good practices that could help reduce the noise?
    >
    > many thanks - Alex
    Ron Manfredi, Aug 14, 2003
    #3
  4. Alex Alternator

    Kenwood Guest

    NeatImage is the program/PS Plugin that will do it for you.

    "Alex Alternator" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I apologize for repeating a topic.
    >
    > I'm shooting with a D100. I use it for photo journalism and it is my best
    > friend. I took my friends out the other night to shoot the rather
    > unexciting meteor shower and set it up to take a long exposure of the sky

    in
    > hopes of capturing one of those then illusive streaks of burning rock. I
    > got the exposures right and I can see a nice smattering of stars all

    turning
    > about one central point but there is a LOT of noise after the 20 minute
    > exposure. I had NR turned on but its still there. Are there any tricks

    or
    > general good practices that could help reduce the noise?
    >
    > many thanks - Alex
    >
    >
    Kenwood, Aug 14, 2003
    #4
  5. Alex Alternator

    Gavin Cato Guest

    Use film for anything over 3-4 minutes.


    "Alex Alternator" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I apologize for repeating a topic.
    >
    > I'm shooting with a D100. I use it for photo journalism and it is my best
    > friend. I took my friends out the other night to shoot the rather
    > unexciting meteor shower and set it up to take a long exposure of the sky

    in
    > hopes of capturing one of those then illusive streaks of burning rock. I
    > got the exposures right and I can see a nice smattering of stars all

    turning
    > about one central point but there is a LOT of noise after the 20 minute
    > exposure. I had NR turned on but its still there. Are there any tricks

    or
    > general good practices that could help reduce the noise?
    >
    > many thanks - Alex
    >
    >
    Gavin Cato, Aug 14, 2003
    #5
  6. Alex Alternator

    Curt Benton Guest

    what film?


    "Gavin Cato" <> wrote in message
    news:3f3bf5c7$...
    > Use film for anything over 3-4 minutes.
    >
    >
    > "Alex Alternator" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > I apologize for repeating a topic.
    > >
    > > I'm shooting with a D100. I use it for photo journalism and it is my

    best
    > > friend. I took my friends out the other night to shoot the rather
    > > unexciting meteor shower and set it up to take a long exposure of the

    sky
    > in
    > > hopes of capturing one of those then illusive streaks of burning rock.

    I
    > > got the exposures right and I can see a nice smattering of stars all

    > turning
    > > about one central point but there is a LOT of noise after the 20 minute
    > > exposure. I had NR turned on but its still there. Are there any tricks

    > or
    > > general good practices that could help reduce the noise?
    > >
    > > many thanks - Alex
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Curt Benton, Aug 14, 2003
    #6
  7. Alex Alternator

    Curt Benton Guest

    what film specifically?


    "George Kerby" <> wrote in message
    news:BB612AA1.13C8F%...
    > On 8/14/03 11:27 AM, in article , "Alex
    > Alternator" <> wrote:
    >
    > > I apologize for repeating a topic.
    > >
    > > I'm shooting with a D100. I use it for photo journalism and it is my

    best
    > > friend. I took my friends out the other night to shoot the rather
    > > unexciting meteor shower and set it up to take a long exposure of the

    sky in
    > > hopes of capturing one of those then illusive streaks of burning rock.

    I
    > > got the exposures right and I can see a nice smattering of stars all

    turning
    > > about one central point but there is a LOT of noise after the 20 minute
    > > exposure. I had NR turned on but its still there. Are there any tricks

    or
    > > general good practices that could help reduce the noise?
    > >
    > > many thanks - Alex
    > >
    > >

    > It's called "film". Consumer digital cameras heat up too much on long
    > exposures causing noise. If you want to shoot digital long exposures,

    spend
    > about $20K for a chilled medium format back.
    >
    >
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 -

    http://www.uncensored-news.com
    > <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source

    <><><><><><><><>
    >
    Curt Benton, Aug 14, 2003
    #7
  8. Alex Alternator

    Gavin Cato Guest

    Something slow, i.e. ISO 50

    Velvia is a typical example.




    "Curt Benton" <> wrote in message
    news:erU_a.56$Qy4.20@fed1read05...
    > what film?
    >
    >
    > "Gavin Cato" <> wrote in message
    > news:3f3bf5c7$...
    > > Use film for anything over 3-4 minutes.
    > >
    > >
    > > "Alex Alternator" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > I apologize for repeating a topic.
    > > >
    > > > I'm shooting with a D100. I use it for photo journalism and it is my

    > best
    > > > friend. I took my friends out the other night to shoot the rather
    > > > unexciting meteor shower and set it up to take a long exposure of the

    > sky
    > > in
    > > > hopes of capturing one of those then illusive streaks of burning rock.

    > I
    > > > got the exposures right and I can see a nice smattering of stars all

    > > turning
    > > > about one central point but there is a LOT of noise after the 20

    minute
    > > > exposure. I had NR turned on but its still there. Are there any

    tricks
    > > or
    > > > general good practices that could help reduce the noise?
    > > >
    > > > many thanks - Alex
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Gavin Cato, Aug 14, 2003
    #8
  9. Alex Alternator

    Curt Benton Guest

    You mean there's NO difference between Velvia and Ilford Delta 3200?



    "George Kerby" <> wrote in message
    news:BB618619.13EB0%...
    > On 8/14/03 5:55 PM, in article zrU_a.57$Qy4.14@fed1read05, "Curt Benton"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > > what film specifically?
    > >
    > >
    > > "George Kerby" <> wrote in message
    > > news:BB612AA1.13C8F%...
    > >> On 8/14/03 11:27 AM, in article ,

    "Alex
    > >> Alternator" <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> I apologize for repeating a topic.
    > >>>
    > >>> I'm shooting with a D100. I use it for photo journalism and it is my

    > > best
    > >>> friend. I took my friends out the other night to shoot the rather
    > >>> unexciting meteor shower and set it up to take a long exposure of the

    > > sky in
    > >>> hopes of capturing one of those then illusive streaks of burning rock.

    > > I
    > >>> got the exposures right and I can see a nice smattering of stars all

    > > turning
    > >>> about one central point but there is a LOT of noise after the 20

    minute
    > >>> exposure. I had NR turned on but its still there. Are there any

    tricks
    > > or
    > >>> general good practices that could help reduce the noise?
    > >>>
    > >>> many thanks - Alex
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >> It's called "film". Consumer digital cameras heat up too much on long
    > >> exposures causing noise. If you want to shoot digital long exposures,

    > > spend
    > >> about $20K for a chilled medium format back.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> ______________________________________________________________________
    > >> Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 -

    > > http://www.uncensored-news.com
    > >> <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source

    > > <><><><><><><><>
    > >>

    > >
    > >

    > ANY film. Preferably color and not grainy. Film doesn't overheat...
    >
    >
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    > Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 -

    http://www.uncensored-news.com
    > <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source

    <><><><><><><><>
    >
    Curt Benton, Aug 15, 2003
    #9
  10. Alex Alternator

    Gavin Cato Guest

    It of course will take longer, but the results from the slow film are
    sensational.


    "Andrew McDonald" <> wrote in message news:NGV_a.4214
    > They have speeds up to 1600 ISO. By using 50 speed film you are
    > doubling the amount of time an exposure might take over 100 speed.
    >
    > Exposure times would be 8 times longer than 400 speed film.
    >
    > Sometimes a little grain is a trade off that's acceptable.
    >
    Gavin Cato, Aug 15, 2003
    #10
  11. (Andrew McDonald) writes:

    > Sure there is but you don't use Velvia 50 speed film for
    > astrophotography. Generally higher speed films are used to shorten the
    > exposure times. I have heard of specially treated or "hypered" film
    > that is used for these exposures.


    If you have any kind of sky glow and want to capture meteor trails, a
    moderate ISO 100 or 200 film will perform better than a hyper sensitive
    film, and a moderate wide angle will serve better than a telephoto.

    --
    http://home.teleport.com/~larryc
    Larry Caldwell, Aug 15, 2003
    #11
  12. Ron Manfredi wrote:
    > Do a search for "dark frame subtraction". I remember reading the technique, but
    > am not sure of exactly how to do it. I do remember that it involves taking a
    > dark frame (lens cap on) at the same ISO and shutter speed as the main exposure,
    > but after that I am not sure.

    <<snip>>

    The D100 does that automatically when the noise reduction is enabled. No
    need to do it manually.

    Bill R.
    raineyw (at) knology (dot) net, Aug 15, 2003
    #12
  13. Alex Alternator

    Chris Hoopes Guest

    "Alex Alternator" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I apologize for repeating a topic.
    >
    > I'm shooting with a D100. I use it for photo journalism and it is my best
    > friend. I took my friends out the other night to shoot the rather
    > unexciting meteor shower and set it up to take a long exposure of the sky

    in
    > hopes of capturing one of those then illusive streaks of burning rock. I
    > got the exposures right and I can see a nice smattering of stars all

    turning
    > about one central point but there is a LOT of noise after the 20 minute
    > exposure. I had NR turned on but its still there. Are there any tricks

    or
    > general good practices that could help reduce the noise?
    >
    > many thanks - Alex
    >
    >


    I was in the Sierra mountains last month and took my D100 - thought I would
    try to get a shot of the stars. I had the Noise Reduction setting turned on
    and was somewhat (happily) surprised by the results. I wasn't able to look
    at the larger image until I got back into town, and could have probably done
    a few things better, but here is one of the shots.

    http://www.brandtphotography.com/images/stars.jpg

    Shot information:
    ISO: 800
    Lens: Tamron 28-300 @ 28mm f/3.5
    Shutter: 218.90 seconds

    I was actually amazed that the shot information keeps track of seconds when
    on the bulb setting. One of the things I noticed was that even with a 3-1/2
    minute shot, the motion of the stars is evident (which couldn't be seen on
    the small LCD screen). There is definitely some noise in the shot, but I
    also expected that. My guess is that I might have had some better results
    with less time. Being up in the mountains with no lights around, and a clear
    sky probably helped as well.

    Film would definitely be a better medium for such shots,I would not suggest
    trying this without using a tripod and a cable release - vibration reduction
    might also help. Interesting that the tree lines are quite distinct thanks
    to the noise reduction.
    Chris Hoopes, Aug 15, 2003
    #13
  14. Alex Alternator

    DL Guest

    On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:27:36 -0700, "Alex Alternator" <>
    wrote:

    I have a good amount of astrophotography experience, and coincidentally I just
    received my Nikon D100 this week.

    Shooting really long exposure star trails is still best done with film. If all
    you want is star trails, you can use slow film like Velvia. Here's a 2 hr. job
    on 100 film; details on the page:
    http://home.houston.rr.com/dtlocke/astrophoto/stn-17mm-trails.htm
    "Sky glow" has to be accounted for in your film speed & aperture calculations.
    You don't need a fast lens, BTW.

    With regards to shooting meteors, there is a very specific technique where you
    expose for about 5 minutes on 800 (or any fast) film with a normal lens at f2.8
    or so. You point at the part of the sky where there's likely to be the most
    activity, or perhaps frame a familiar constellation as my friend did. See pix,
    links, discussion:
    http://home.houston.rr.com/dtlocke/astrophoto/leonid.htm
    I've not tried the above with a digital camera; but, due to the shorter exposure
    (3-7 min), it will work better than star trails (1 minute to all night) *very*
    long exposures.

    It almost goes without saying that you need at least a sturdy tripod during all
    this. I shoot tripod camera lens stuff, but this gets limiting in a hurry. I
    also shoot through the 'scope ("prime focus"), as well as with cameras and
    lenses attached to a telescope mount ("wide field"). See me and my scope/mount
    setup here:
    http://home.houston.rr.com/dtlocke/astro-featured.htm
    Here's a link with one of my better wide field shots
    http://home.houston.rr.com/dtlocke/astrophoto/pipe.htm

    Prime focus is very difficult and takes quite a while to master. Film choice
    here is important because some films are very poor performers. For both prime
    focus and wide field astrophotography you want to use film that's no longer sold
    (Kodak PJ400/LE400 and the old Supra 400). Now Kodak E200 slide film is the
    best sold that I know about. It's difficult to scan and several folks push it
    btw 1-3 stops to brighten it up. This is an always changing topic, as films get
    reformulated all the time now with little or no notice, and as new films are
    introduced.

    The Canon 10D is the reputed king of D-SLR astrophotography due to it's
    long-exposure noise characteristics. Most of the people getting a DSLR for
    astrophotography from scratch are heading that way. I am contrary by nature,
    perhaps, or maybe it's because of all the Nikon glass I've accumulated ;-) In
    any case, I'm going to explore the long-term exposure capabilities of the D100
    as soon as I can.

    One other point is that what people do with digital cameras is to take a large
    number of pictures that individually are under exposed, and then digitally
    combine them.

    There there are a couple of newsgroups relevant to this topic, the
    and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_astro/

    "Hope this helps."

    -Dick L.
    p.s. Love the D100 so far!

    >I apologize for repeating a topic.
    >
    >I'm shooting with a D100. I use it for photo journalism and it is my best
    >friend. I took my friends out the other night to shoot the rather
    >unexciting meteor shower and set it up to take a long exposure of the sky in
    >hopes of capturing one of those then illusive streaks of burning rock. I
    >got the exposures right and I can see a nice smattering of stars all turning
    >about one central point but there is a LOT of noise after the 20 minute
    >exposure. I had NR turned on but its still there. Are there any tricks or
    >general good practices that could help reduce the noise?
    >
    >many thanks - Alex
    >
    DL, Aug 16, 2003
    #14
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