Star Wars & double standards

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by John, Feb 11, 2004.

  1. John

    John Guest

    How many people were complaining that the original, US theatrical
    version of Sergio Leone's 'Once Upon a Time in America' wasn't released.
    That's the 139min version...

    Not many I suspect because the film, as the director originally intended
    it to be, was the 227min version we got last year.

    Yet when George Lucas wants Star Wars in the way he originally intended
    it to be, every little fanboy cries foul.

    Oh well, your loss. I know I'll get it and enjoy it.
     
    John, Feb 11, 2004
    #1
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  2. John

    Justin Guest

    John wrote on [Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:34:54 +0800]:
    > How many people were complaining that the original, US theatrical
    > version of Sergio Leone's 'Once Upon a Time in America' wasn't released.
    > That's the 139min version...
    >
    > Not many I suspect because the film, as the director originally intended
    > it to be, was the 227min version we got last year.


    Not me. As I don't care for that movie.

    Yet the Highlander SE is the one I saw in the theatre, so I am all for
    that.


    > Yet when George Lucas wants Star Wars in the way he originally intended
    > it to be, every little fanboy cries foul.
    >


    BULLSHIT HE DID!

    He wussed out over time. Star Wars was SUPPOSED to be gritty and "real",
    yet by the time Jedi came out he had started the wussing.
     
    Justin, Feb 11, 2004
    #2
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  3. John

    Mike Kohary Guest

    "John" <> wrote in message
    news:402986bd$0$1750$...
    > How many people were complaining that the original, US theatrical
    > version of Sergio Leone's 'Once Upon a Time in America' wasn't released.
    > That's the 139min version...
    >
    > Not many I suspect because the film, as the director originally intended
    > it to be, was the 227min version we got last year.
    >
    > Yet when George Lucas wants Star Wars in the way he originally intended
    > it to be, every little fanboy cries foul.


    Big difference - Leone actually filmed his work at the time and truly
    intended it to be a certain way, only to meet resistance from the suits.

    Lucas is *revising* his previous work with new work. Even if he really
    intended it that way originally (which is entirely debateable, seeing as how
    he had total creative control and final cut), lacking a time machine,
    there's no other way for him to rectify the situation. Furthermore, I
    wouldn't say a word if he released his precious Special Editions if he
    included the original editions as well. It's his refusal to even
    acknowledge the existence of his original groundbreaking films that irks me
    to no end.

    Finally, for what it's worth, I advocate that all films be released on DVD
    in their original theatrical form (along with whatever other form is
    included), including Leone's film. DVD, after all, has a seamless branching
    feature that would be tremendously useful in this respect (see "The Abyss"
    and "T2" releases), but is largely ignored.

    Mike
     
    Mike Kohary, Feb 11, 2004
    #3
  4. On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:34:54 +0800, John <>
    wrote:

    >How many people were complaining that the original, US theatrical
    >version of Sergio Leone's 'Once Upon a Time in America' wasn't released.
    >That's the 139min version...


    >Not many I suspect because the film, as the director originally intended
    >it to be, was the 227min version we got last year.


    That was Leone's original cut.

    >Yet when George Lucas wants Star Wars in the way he originally intended
    >it to be,


    This wasn't Lucas's original cut. If you honestly believe the new ones
    are "how he originally intended them to be" then I've got this bridge
    for sale.
     
    Ian Galbraith, Feb 11, 2004
    #4
  5. John

    Paul Guest

    John wrote:

    > Yet when George Lucas wants Star Wars in the way he originally
    > intended it to be, every little fanboy cries foul.
    >
    > Oh well, your loss. I know I'll get it and enjoy it.


    Actually, it's not my loss, because if I get it, I WON'T enjoy it.
    The only enjoyment I'll ever get from eps 4-6 is from my VHS copies.
     
    Paul, Feb 11, 2004
    #5
  6. John

    jonalouvjona Guest

    On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:34:54 +0800, John <>
    wrote:

    >Yet when George Lucas wants Star Wars in the way he originally intended
    >it to be, every little fanboy cries foul.
    >
    >Oh well, your loss. I know I'll get it and enjoy it.


    George Lucas is a hasbeen. He's like Disney Studios ... constantly
    rehashing the same 30 year old crap over and over and trying to trick
    us to buy it again. Sorry fanboi, I don't support laziness and lack of
    innovation.

    Besides, Ep1 left a real foul stench which sullied the SW movies.
    Didn't bother watching Ep2.
     
    jonalouvjona, Feb 11, 2004
    #6
  7. John

    Shadowhawk Guest

    I've been saying the same thing for years.

    If Star Wars had been some small cult film that never made any money, the fans
    would love the special editions.

    Remember back when they released the Special Editions. Every article was about
    how audiences would finally get the chance to see George Lucas' definitive
    vision of Star Wars. And everyone seemed to be into it...

    ....Until it made lots of money in re-release.

    At the end of the day the only thing that matters is what the audiences
    think. Not what a small group of people on the Internet think. To this day
    I've yet to meet anyone "in person" who has a problem with the special
    editions, or the prequels. I have nothing but great experiences seeing the new
    movies in the theaters, and am always surprised by the hate and comments that
    make it to the Internet.

    Maybe it's just one jealous Star Trek fan who posts under dozens of different
    e-mail addresses... I guess we'll never know.

    Later,
    Shaun!
    --------

    Check out my Homepage
    http://Shadowhawk27.tripod.com/

    delete Nospam from e-mail to reply!
     
    Shadowhawk, Feb 11, 2004
    #7
  8. John

    Cernovog Guest

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:50:13 -0500, Mike Kohary wrote
    (in message <c0c1om$te1$>):

    > Finally, for what it's worth, I advocate that all films be released on DVD
    > in their original theatrical form (along with whatever other form is
    > included), including Leone's film. DVD, after all, has a seamless branching
    > feature that would be tremendously useful in this respect (see "The Abyss"
    > and "T2" releases), but is largely ignored.


    What I never understood is why they don't use this feature to give home
    viewers more parental control?

    With all the yelling and screaming over those Clean Flix guys who censor
    movies for Mormons, I don't understand why Hollywood doesn't cash in and give
    people the ability to watch versions of their movies with violence and
    swearing cut out?

    With the seamless branching feature, you could just choose a version from the
    menu and it would skip over those scenes.

    Now don't say that the creators or studios would balk at this bastardization
    of their art. They already allow this for broadcast television versions.
    Besides that, swearing is often added just to avoid getting a G- or
    PG-rating. (Back to the Future is an excellent example.)
     
    Cernovog, Feb 11, 2004
    #8
  9. John

    Justin Guest

    Shadowhawk wrote on [11 Feb 2004 05:48:27 GMT]:
    > I've been saying the same thing for years.
    >
    > If Star Wars had been some small cult film that never made any money, the fans
    > would love the special editions.
    >
    > Remember back when they released the Special Editions. Every article was about
    > how audiences would finally get the chance to see George Lucas' definitive
    > vision of Star Wars. And everyone seemed to be into it...
    >
    > ...Until it made lots of money in re-release.


    No. Until we saw the lame and stupid changes that were unnecessary.

    > At the end of the day the only thing that matters is what the audiences
    > think. Not what a small group of people on the Internet think. To this day
    > I've yet to meet anyone "in person" who has a problem with the special
    > editions, or the prequels. I have nothing but great experiences seeing the new
    > movies in the theaters, and am always surprised by the hate and comments that
    > make it to the Internet.


    That's odd. I have yet to meet "in person" anyone who prefers the SE
    over the originals.


    I know plenty that will "put up" with the SEs, but they would prefer the
    originals.
     
    Justin, Feb 11, 2004
    #9
  10. John

    Paul Guest

    jonalouvjona wrote:

    > Besides, Ep1 left a real foul stench which sullied the SW movies.


    Nope, the Ewoks in ep 6 did that. :)
     
    Paul, Feb 11, 2004
    #10
  11. John

    space Guest

    You'd be much better off comparing the Star Wars SEs to Spielberg's ET: The
    Politically-Correct Cut. But then even Steve recognised the importance of
    preserving the original when it came to the DVD release.

    I used to feel really passionate about this one, but I just don't care any
    more. I'll just say that I don't enjoy the SE cuts, and I won't be buying
    them on DVD. This is not some enraged fanboy protest, I just have no
    interest in the 1997 cuts.

    I'm much more excited about the Bladerunner 3-disc set (with both theatrical
    and director's cuts).



    "John" <> wrote in message
    news:402986bd$0$1750$...
    > How many people were complaining that the original, US theatrical
    > version of Sergio Leone's 'Once Upon a Time in America' wasn't released.
    > That's the 139min version...
    >
    > Not many I suspect because the film, as the director originally intended
    > it to be, was the 227min version we got last year.
    >
    > Yet when George Lucas wants Star Wars in the way he originally intended
    > it to be, every little fanboy cries foul.
    >
    > Oh well, your loss. I know I'll get it and enjoy it.
    >



    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.574 / Virus Database: 364 - Release Date: 29/01/04
     
    space, Feb 11, 2004
    #11
  12. John

    GDS Guest

    >I'm much more excited about the Bladerunner 3-disc set
    >(with both theatrical and director's cuts).


    Been waiting for this at least 4 years myself, I know many people in here
    have been waiting much, much longer than that. :((

    G.
     
    GDS, Feb 11, 2004
    #12
  13. John

    Luke Hooft Guest

    "space" <> wrote in message
    news:402a03fe$...

    > I'm much more excited about the Bladerunner 3-disc set (with both

    theatrical
    > and director's cuts).


    Actually, when it comes out there will be the theatrical cut, Director's cut
    and a new version alltogether.

    LH
     
    Luke Hooft, Feb 11, 2004
    #13
  14. John

    Justin Guest

    Paul wrote on [Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:29:15 +1000]:
    > jonalouvjona wrote:
    >
    >> Besides, Ep1 left a real foul stench which sullied the SW movies.

    >
    > Nope, the Ewoks in ep 6 did that. :)
    >
    >


    Yub Yub!
     
    Justin, Feb 11, 2004
    #14
  15. Justin wrote:
    > Shadowhawk wrote:
    >> I've yet to meet anyone "in person" who has a problem with the special
    >> editions, or the prequels.

    >
    > That's odd. I have yet to meet "in person" anyone who prefers the SE
    > over the originals.


    Oh, I've met those people. Some of them are my friends... but they're my
    friends who are a few years younger than me, and who missed out on seeing
    the original films in the cinema as I did.

    When the SEs are someone's first chance to experience the films on the big
    screen, it's not such a surprise (to my mind) that they don't mind them.
    The impact of a cinematic presentation counts for a lot.

    (It's worth pointing out, though, that even my SE-liking friends don't much
    care for Episodes I-II.)

    --
    Douglas Bailey
    2/11/2004 11:49:26 AM
    "International caller on my line; tomorrow's just another distance..."
    --The Jazz Butcher Conspiracy
     
    Douglas Bailey, Feb 11, 2004
    #15
  16. John

    Justin Guest

    Douglas Bailey wrote on [Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:53:30 -0500]:
    > Justin wrote:
    >> Shadowhawk wrote:
    >>> I've yet to meet anyone "in person" who has a problem with the special
    >>> editions, or the prequels.

    >>
    >> That's odd. I have yet to meet "in person" anyone who prefers the SE
    >> over the originals.

    >
    > Oh, I've met those people. Some of them are my friends... but they're my
    > friends who are a few years younger than me, and who missed out on seeing
    > the original films in the cinema as I did.


    I missed the originals in the theatre as well, by >< that much. But I
    saw them endlessly on video.


    > When the SEs are someone's first chance to experience the films on the big
    > screen, it's not such a surprise (to my mind) that they don't mind them.
    > The impact of a cinematic presentation counts for a lot.


    I enjoyed seeing them again on the big screen as the SEs, yet I could
    still tell the big differences and found them distracting.
     
    Justin, Feb 11, 2004
    #16
  17. John

    Jordan Lund Guest

    John <> wrote in message news:<402986bd$0$1750$>...

    > Yet when George Lucas wants Star Wars in the way he originally intended
    > it to be, every little fanboy cries foul.


    Probably because not every directors cut is the best version. Lucas
    claims that the special edition Star Wars is what he would have done
    if he had the budget.

    So in the mid 70's he didn't have a large enough budget to make Greedo
    shoot first? Nonsense. That's where his whole argument falls apart
    like a search for Iraqi WMD.

    He finished the effects on the Jabba scene for the first film,
    excellent. But he had already moved the dialog from that scene to the
    Greedo scene. Now we have two scenes in the film with pretty much the
    exact same dialog.

    If Lucas wanted to go through and clean up the effects then fine, I
    have no problem with it. Change the lame Ewok song at the end of the
    3rd flick? Oh, sure, why not? But making serious editorial changes 30
    years after the fact is disingenuous.

    - Jordan
     
    Jordan Lund, Feb 11, 2004
    #17
  18. John

    Jordan Lund Guest

    Cernovog <> wrote in message news:<>...

    > With all the yelling and screaming over those Clean Flix guys who censor
    > movies for Mormons, I don't understand why Hollywood doesn't cash in and give
    > people the ability to watch versions of their movies with violence and
    > swearing cut out?


    Agreed, and people like me who don't mind the violence and swearing
    would use the feature at least once just to see how funny the result
    is...

    And now the Clean Flix version of "Pulp Fiction"

    VINCENT
    Well, in Amsterdam, you can buy
    beer in a movie theatre. And I
    don't mean in a paper cup either.
    They give you a glass of beer, like
    in a bar. In Paris, you can buy
    beer at MacDonald's. Also, you
    know what they call a Quarter
    Pounder with Cheese in Paris?

    JULES
    They don't call it a Quarter
    Pounder with Cheese?

    VINCENT
    No, they got the metric system
    there, they wouldn't know what
    a Quarter Pounder is.

    JULES
    What'd they call it?

    VINCENT
    Royale with Cheese.

    JULES
    (repeating)
    Royale with Cheese. What'd they
    call a Big Mac?

    VINCENT
    Big Mac's a Big Mac, but they call
    it Le Big Mac.

    JULES
    What do they call a Whopper?

    VINCENT
    I dunno, I didn't go into a Burger
    King. But you know what they put
    on french fries in Holland instead
    of ketchup?

    JULES
    What?

    VINCENT
    Mayonnaise.

    THE END!
     
    Jordan Lund, Feb 11, 2004
    #18
  19. John

    ShaneOttawa Guest

    ospam (Shadowhawk) wrote:

    > At the end of the day the only thing that matters is what the audiences
    > think. Not what a small group of people on the Internet think. To this day
    > I've yet to meet anyone "in person" who has a problem with the special
    > editions, or the prequels.


    You must be a shut-in. While I agree with your comment on the SE's,
    you'd have to be a recluse to have never come across anyone who
    disliked at least chapter 1.
     
    ShaneOttawa, Feb 11, 2004
    #19
  20. John

    Cernovog Guest

    On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:22:17 -0500, Jordan Lund wrote
    (in message <>):

    > Agreed, and people like me who don't mind the violence and swearing
    > would use the feature at least once just to see how funny the result
    > is...


    LOL! Yes, that's another possible use....

    I always laugh when they take the swearing out of movies for TV shows. I
    still laugh when I hear Marty in Back to the Future screaming "Jeez Louise,
    Doc! You disintigrated Einstein!"

    I remember watching a funny interview with whats-his-name from Full House. He
    said one of his jobs was doing the voice overs for Richard Pryors when they
    wanted to take the swear words out of his movies.

    He did a whole act of euphimisms in Richard Pryor's voice. "Gosh dang it!"
    "Holy cow!" "Fiddle-dee-dee!" "Bull crap!"
    >
    > And now the Clean Flix version of "Pulp Fiction"


    LOL!
     
    Cernovog, Feb 11, 2004
    #20
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