Spread this number

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Mutley, May 3, 2007.

  1. Mutley

    Mutley Guest

    Mutley, May 3, 2007
    #1
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  2. Mutley

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <>,
    Mutley <> wrote:

    > 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
    >
    > http://rudd-o.com/archives/2007/04/30/spread-this-number/


    yep, and as companies feel ripped off like this they seek to lower costs
    so they can still be profitable... so they close up shop and shift to
    china.

    So when an employer tosses you out on your ear to employ someone
    cheaper... don't complain because you were only too eager to rip them
    off too.
    whoisthis, May 3, 2007
    #2
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  3. Mutley

    Peter Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Mutley <> wrote:
    >> 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
    >> http://rudd-o.com/archives/2007/04/30/spread-this-number/

    >
    > yep, and as companies feel ripped off like this they seek to lower costs
    > so they can still be profitable... so they close up shop and shift to
    > china.


    Who's being ripped off?
    According to the BBC report, this was done by someone so they could watch
    the HD-DVD they had purchased.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/technology/6615047.stm

    Sounds rather like the DVD Jon story, where some Norwegian guy figured out
    how to play the DVD he bought.

    If these guys legally purchased and paid for the DVDs they want to watch,
    who do you think is getting ripped off?



    Peter
    Peter, May 3, 2007
    #3
  4. Mutley

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <1178184743.244365@ftpsrv1>, Peter <>
    wrote:

    > whoisthis wrote:
    > > In article <>,
    > > Mutley <> wrote:
    > >> 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
    > >> http://rudd-o.com/archives/2007/04/30/spread-this-number/

    > >
    > > yep, and as companies feel ripped off like this they seek to lower costs
    > > so they can still be profitable... so they close up shop and shift to
    > > china.

    >
    > Who's being ripped off?
    > According to the BBC report, this was done by someone so they could watch
    > the HD-DVD they had purchased.
    > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/technology/6615047.stm
    >
    > Sounds rather like the DVD Jon story, where some Norwegian guy figured out
    > how to play the DVD he bought.
    >
    > If these guys legally purchased and paid for the DVDs they want to watch,
    > who do you think is getting ripped off?
    >
    >
    >
    > Peter


    big difference.... they are sharing the information so it allows others
    to pirate movies, it has moved beyond their needs. All they are doing is
    upping the ante which simply places more costs on the rest of the
    consumers.
    If the DVD would not play then it should have been returned for a
    refund, given their technical knowledge I will assume that their player
    was multizoned.
    Everyone has a choice, if you don't like DRM then don't buy the
    products, its as easy as that.
    whoisthis, May 3, 2007
    #4
  5. Mutley

    Peter Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <1178184743.244365@ftpsrv1>, Peter <>
    > wrote:
    >> whoisthis wrote:
    >> > In article <>,
    >> > Mutley <> wrote:
    >> >> 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
    >> >> http://rudd-o.com/archives/2007/04/30/spread-this-number/
    >> >
    >> > yep, and as companies feel ripped off like this they seek to lower
    >> > costs so they can still be profitable... so they close up shop and
    >> > shift to china.

    >>
    >> Who's being ripped off?
    >> According to the BBC report, this was done by someone so they could watch
    >> the HD-DVD they had purchased.
    >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/technology/6615047.stm
    >> If these guys legally purchased and paid for the DVDs they want to watch,
    >> who do you think is getting ripped off?

    >
    > big difference.... they are sharing the information so it allows others
    > to pirate movies, it has moved beyond their needs.


    Oh, that fiction about sales of billions of "pirated" CDs and DVDs. The
    fact is, I haven't seen pirated DVDs or CDs on sale anywhere in NZ, not in
    music stores, not in supermarkets, not on streets. Once or twice, there
    have been reports of some fool who burnt off some copies and tried selling
    these at a car boot sale or something. But there is no evidence whatsoever
    of illegal sales on a massive scale. It is clearly a fiction.
    The fact is that these "copy protections" (TPMs) are not there to prevent
    copying for illegal sale, they are there to control access by the paying
    customers. The purpose is to restrict consumers use of what they have paid
    for, so that the media corporates can increase prices or otherwise
    manipulate the market. Just like the region code on DVDs - there is no
    reason for this except to impose an unjustified price increase on
    consumers.

    The fact is that the existing business model is unfair to everyone except
    the foreign media corporates. The artists get a very small portion of the
    retail price (5% or so) and the cost of production is minimal (they give
    away DVDs and CDs with magazines), so there is an enormous profit margin
    for the media corporates. Fortunately, advances in technology are making
    this old and unfair business model obsolete.
    I'd like to see more money going to more artists and more choice for
    consumers. The TPMs are just the foreign corporates way of trying to stop
    this change.
    For an artist's view; http://janisian.com/article-internet_debacle.html


    > Everyone has a choice, if you don't like DRM then don't buy the
    > products, its as easy as that.


    Actually, choice is what the foreign corporates want to deny us. For
    example, they want all movies and music under TPM controls. And Microsoft
    is forcing computer manufacturers to include DRM features in all hardware.
    The point here is that these old media corporations want us ordinary
    citizens to have no choice.


    Peter
    Peter, May 3, 2007
    #5
  6. Mutley

    Roger_Nickel Guest

    On Fri, 04 May 2007 04:47:15 +1200, whoisthis wrote:

    > In article <1178184743.244365@ftpsrv1>, Peter <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> whoisthis wrote:
    >> > In article <>,
    >> > Mutley <> wrote:
    >> >> 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
    >> >> http://rudd-o.com/archives/2007/04/30/spread-this-number/
    >> >
    >> > yep, and as companies feel ripped off like this they seek to lower costs
    >> > so they can still be profitable... so they close up shop and shift to
    >> > china.

    >>
    >> Who's being ripped off?
    >> According to the BBC report, this was done by someone so they could watch
    >> the HD-DVD they had purchased.
    >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/technology/6615047.stm
    >>
    >> Sounds rather like the DVD Jon story, where some Norwegian guy figured out
    >> how to play the DVD he bought.
    >>
    >> If these guys legally purchased and paid for the DVDs they want to watch,
    >> who do you think is getting ripped off?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Peter

    >
    > big difference.... they are sharing the information so it allows others
    > to pirate movies, it has moved beyond their needs. All they are doing is
    > upping the ante which simply places more costs on the rest of the
    > consumers.
    > If the DVD would not play then it should have been returned for a
    > refund, given their technical knowledge I will assume that their player
    > was multizoned.
    > Everyone has a choice, if you don't like DRM then don't buy the
    > products, its as easy as that.


    It's natural curiosity :-
    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070415-aacs-cracks-cannot-be-revoked-says-hacker.html
    Better to go after the people distributing the copyrighted material than
    to prosecute everyone who looks under the mat for the decryption key. If I
    post an article saying that ordinary 5 pin door lock cylinders are
    insecure and can be picked open in less than 10 minutes by someone with a
    few hours of practice and some basic tools (they are and they can), then
    am I a criminal or am I doing a public service?. It may even be that the
    propagation of this decryption key is a reaction to the absurd and
    overbearing American DMCA and that such action is to be welcomed and
    encouraged as fully justified civil disobedience.
    Roger_Nickel, May 3, 2007
    #6
  7. Mutley

    sam Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <1178184743.244365@ftpsrv1>, Peter <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> whoisthis wrote:
    >>> In article <>,
    >>> Mutley <> wrote:
    >>>> 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
    >>>> http://rudd-o.com/archives/2007/04/30/spread-this-number/
    >>> yep, and as companies feel ripped off like this they seek to lower costs
    >>> so they can still be profitable... so they close up shop and shift to
    >>> china.

    >>
    >> Who's being ripped off?
    >> According to the BBC report, this was done by someone so they could watch
    >> the HD-DVD they had purchased.
    >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/technology/6615047.stm
    >>
    >> Sounds rather like the DVD Jon story, where some Norwegian guy figured out
    >> how to play the DVD he bought.
    >>
    >> If these guys legally purchased and paid for the DVDs they want to watch,
    >> who do you think is getting ripped off?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Peter

    >
    > big difference.... they are sharing the information so it allows others
    > to pirate movies, it has moved beyond their needs. All they are doing is
    > upping the ante which simply places more costs on the rest of the
    > consumers.
    > If the DVD would not play then it should have been returned for a
    > refund, given their technical knowledge I will assume that their player
    > was multizoned.
    > Everyone has a choice, if you don't like DRM then don't buy the
    > products, its as easy as that.


    Why not just buy them and circumvent the DRM, if your purchase is legal,
    its as easy as that.
    TPMs should not be protected by law, because people circumventing them
    may be doing so for legitimate fair use reasons and not be guilty of any
    copyright infringement.
    sam, May 3, 2007
    #7
  8. Mutley

    XPD Guest

    "Peter" <> wrote in message
    news:1178218515.698497@ftpsrv1...
    >>
    >> big difference.... they are sharing the information so it allows others
    >> to pirate movies, it has moved beyond their needs.

    >
    > Oh, that fiction about sales of billions of "pirated" CDs and DVDs. The
    > fact is, I haven't seen pirated DVDs or CDs on sale anywhere in NZ, not in
    > music stores, not in supermarkets, not on streets. Once or twice, there
    > have been reports of some fool who burnt off some copies and tried selling
    > these at a car boot sale or something. But there is no evidence
    > whatsoever
    > of illegal sales on a massive scale. It is clearly a fiction.


    Well yeah I havent seen a large scale operation myself, but defientely
    people out there selling dodgy movies at the local markets.... and have been
    doing so for years. Noone really cares except the studios.
    XPD, May 3, 2007
    #8
  9. Mutley

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <463a4e88$>, sam <> wrote:


    > Why not just buy them and circumvent the DRM, if your purchase is legal,
    > its as easy as that.
    > TPMs should not be protected by law, because people circumventing them
    > may be doing so for legitimate fair use reasons and not be guilty of any
    > copyright infringement.


    What fair use issue, I have about 150 DVDs and they all play on all of
    the DVD players (we have 6) and all of the computers (we have 8) with
    zero issues.
    whoisthis, May 4, 2007
    #9
  10. Mutley

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <1178218515.698497@ftpsrv1>, Peter <>
    wrote:


    > Actually, choice is what the foreign corporates want to deny us. For
    > example, they want all movies and music under TPM controls. And Microsoft
    > is forcing computer manufacturers to include DRM features in all hardware.
    > The point here is that these old media corporations want us ordinary
    > citizens to have no choice.
    >
    >
    > Peter


    Wrong, the only choice you are entitled to is to buy a product or not.

    I don't buy protected CDs because they do not work on my laptop, however
    I also do not pirate the music.

    If I have $30 I can buy product A or product B or neither. If product A
    is a pain in the ass I will not buy it.
    whoisthis, May 4, 2007
    #10
  11. Mutley

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <f1dke5$9v4$>,
    "XPD" <> wrote:

    > "Peter" <> wrote in message
    > news:1178218515.698497@ftpsrv1...
    > >>
    > >> big difference.... they are sharing the information so it allows others
    > >> to pirate movies, it has moved beyond their needs.

    > >
    > > Oh, that fiction about sales of billions of "pirated" CDs and DVDs. The
    > > fact is, I haven't seen pirated DVDs or CDs on sale anywhere in NZ, not in
    > > music stores, not in supermarkets, not on streets. Once or twice, there
    > > have been reports of some fool who burnt off some copies and tried selling
    > > these at a car boot sale or something. But there is no evidence
    > > whatsoever
    > > of illegal sales on a massive scale. It is clearly a fiction.

    >
    > Well yeah I havent seen a large scale operation myself, but defientely
    > people out there selling dodgy movies at the local markets.... and have been
    > doing so for years. Noone really cares except the studios.


    Of course people don't care, they are lead to believe they are simply
    sticking it to the man.
    whoisthis, May 4, 2007
    #11
  12. Mutley

    Peter Guest

    sam wrote:
    > Why not just buy them and circumvent the DRM, if your purchase is legal,
    > its as easy as that.
    > TPMs should not be protected by law, because people circumventing them
    > may be doing so for legitimate fair use reasons and not be guilty of any
    > copyright infringement.


    Easy or not, circumventing TPMs will be illegal if the copyright amendment
    bill is passed. Also, it will be illegal to have anything that could
    bypass a TPM or to tell anyone about it.

    If you think TPMs should not be protected by law, I hope you made a
    submission to the copyright amendment bill when it was open for submissions
    earlier this year.

    There is no "fair use" reason in NZ. The law allows certain exemptions, but
    these will be tightened under the bill.


    Peter
    Peter, May 4, 2007
    #12
  13. Mutley

    Peter Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > In article <1178218515.698497@ftpsrv1>, Peter <>
    > wrote:
    >> Actually, choice is what the foreign corporates want to deny us. For
    >> example, they want all movies and music under TPM controls. And
    >> Microsoft is forcing computer manufacturers to include DRM features in
    >> all hardware. The point here is that these old media corporations want us
    >> ordinary citizens to have no choice.

    >
    > Wrong, the only choice you are entitled to is to buy a product or not.
    > I don't buy protected CDs because they do not work on my laptop, however
    > I also do not pirate the music.
    > If I have $30 I can buy product A or product B or neither. If product A
    > is a pain in the ass I will not buy it.


    Obviously, the products with TPMs will fail because the vast majority of
    users will choose unprotected media, where they have a choice. The way the
    media corporations are approaching this is to have all movies and music
    under TPM controls. Their aim is to deny choice.
    So you can choose either product A or product B, but they will both have
    TPM.


    Peter
    Peter, May 4, 2007
    #13
  14. Mutley

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <1178259784.907179@ftpsrv1>, Peter <>
    wrote:

    > whoisthis wrote:
    > > In article <1178218515.698497@ftpsrv1>, Peter <>
    > > wrote:
    > >> Actually, choice is what the foreign corporates want to deny us. For
    > >> example, they want all movies and music under TPM controls. And
    > >> Microsoft is forcing computer manufacturers to include DRM features in
    > >> all hardware. The point here is that these old media corporations want us
    > >> ordinary citizens to have no choice.

    > >
    > > Wrong, the only choice you are entitled to is to buy a product or not.
    > > I don't buy protected CDs because they do not work on my laptop, however
    > > I also do not pirate the music.
    > > If I have $30 I can buy product A or product B or neither. If product A
    > > is a pain in the ass I will not buy it.

    >
    > Obviously, the products with TPMs will fail because the vast majority of
    > users will choose unprotected media, where they have a choice. The way the
    > media corporations are approaching this is to have all movies and music
    > under TPM controls. Their aim is to deny choice.
    > So you can choose either product A or product B, but they will both have
    > TPM.
    >
    >
    > Peter


    or not to buy them. Strangely enough this works, there is a LOT of crap
    out there that made it to film but never to DVD... why... because it
    would not sell.

    It is ironic though that you have not seen the shift with EMI now
    offering unprotected music through the Apple iTunes Music store and
    apple offering the same deal to all labels, and I suspect that the
    indies will be the next to take it up.
    whoisthis, May 4, 2007
    #14
  15. Mutley

    sam Guest

    Peter wrote:
    > sam wrote:
    >> Why not just buy them and circumvent the DRM, if your purchase is legal,
    >> its as easy as that.
    >> TPMs should not be protected by law, because people circumventing them
    >> may be doing so for legitimate fair use reasons and not be guilty of any
    >> copyright infringement.

    >
    > Easy or not, circumventing TPMs will be illegal if the copyright amendment
    > bill is passed. Also, it will be illegal to have anything that could
    > bypass a TPM or to tell anyone about it.
    >
    > If you think TPMs should not be protected by law, I hope you made a
    > submission to the copyright amendment bill when it was open for submissions
    > earlier this year.
    >
    > There is no "fair use" reason in NZ. The law allows certain exemptions, but
    > these will be tightened under the bill.
    >
    >
    > Peter
    >


    We are at their mercy.
    If the only offence I would be committing would be circumventing the DRM
    I would feel morally obliged to do so.
    sam, May 4, 2007
    #15
  16. Mutley

    Peter Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > It is ironic though that you have not seen the shift with EMI now
    > offering unprotected music through the Apple iTunes Music store and
    > apple offering the same deal to all labels, and I suspect that the
    > indies will be the next to take it up.


    Yes, saw that one. There are a few glimmers of hope.

    It is just depressing that our NZ politicians are so easily led by the
    foreign corporates when drafting up the amendment to copyright law. The
    initial discussion documents written by MED had some good stuff in them,
    but the final bill came out quite different.

    Another example is the "new" Vista operating system now being brought out by
    Microsoft. This will put DRM controls on most computers, regardless of
    whether users choose this or not. For almost all ordinary users, there is
    no choice in this. Only a very small number of people have the inclination
    and motivation to do something different (ie avoid the MS OS).



    Peter
    Peter, May 5, 2007
    #16

  17. > Another example is the "new" Vista operating system now being brought out
    > by
    > Microsoft. This will put DRM controls on most computers, regardless of
    > whether users choose this or not. For almost all ordinary users, there is
    > no choice in this. Only a very small number of people have the
    > inclination
    > and motivation to do something different (ie avoid the MS OS).


    The software is designed to play the DRMed software. So for example if you
    don't have
    anything on your computer to play the DRMed music/video/whatever you won't
    be able
    to play it. Why are you blaming the OS as it includes software so you CAN
    play it.

    Thanks
    Craig Whitmore, May 5, 2007
    #17
  18. Mutley

    whoisthis Guest

    In article <1178333250.787395@ftpsrv1>, Peter <>
    wrote:

    > whoisthis wrote:
    > > It is ironic though that you have not seen the shift with EMI now
    > > offering unprotected music through the Apple iTunes Music store and
    > > apple offering the same deal to all labels, and I suspect that the
    > > indies will be the next to take it up.

    >
    > Yes, saw that one. There are a few glimmers of hope.
    >
    > It is just depressing that our NZ politicians are so easily led by the
    > foreign corporates when drafting up the amendment to copyright law. The
    > initial discussion documents written by MED had some good stuff in them,
    > but the final bill came out quite different.
    >
    > Another example is the "new" Vista operating system now being brought out by
    > Microsoft. This will put DRM controls on most computers, regardless of
    > whether users choose this or not. For almost all ordinary users, there is
    > no choice in this. Only a very small number of people have the inclination
    > and motivation to do something different (ie avoid the MS OS).
    >
    >
    >
    > Peter


    Me, I have used CPM2.2 CPM3, TRS-DOS, NEWDOS80, MULTIDOS, and a heap of
    others, but I much prefer Mac OSX, never liked windows, it just always
    looked grey, square, and crude.
    whoisthis, May 5, 2007
    #18
  19. On Sat, 05 May 2007 20:39:40 +1200, whoisthis wrote:

    > Me, I have used CPM2.2 CPM3, TRS-DOS, NEWDOS80, MULTIDOS, and a heap of
    > others, but I much prefer Mac OSX, never liked windows, it just always
    > looked grey, square, and crude.


    Isn't that because it actually *IS* either grey, square, and crude, or is
    a massive resource hog?


    --
    Dianthus Mimulus

    "You'll have to excuse me — I have a long
    bath and a short dress to get into."
    Dianthus Mimulus, May 5, 2007
    #19
  20. Mutley

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Craig Whitmore wrote:
    > > Another example is the "new" Vista operating system now being
    > > brought out by
    > > Microsoft. This will put DRM controls on most computers,
    > > regardless of whether users choose this or not. For almost all
    > > ordinary users, there is no choice in this. Only a very small
    > > number of people have the inclination
    > > and motivation to do something different (ie avoid the MS OS).

    >
    > The software is designed to play the DRMed software. So for example
    > if you don't have
    > anything on your computer to play the DRMed music/video/whatever you
    > won't be able
    > to play it. Why are you blaming the OS as it includes software so you
    > CAN play it.


    Why not Craig? By enabling the folks who are including the DRM you become
    part of it. If you also are in a position of having your OS on 90% of the
    computers on the planet then you become a /huge/ part of it.

    MS could have simply said "No". Then it would have been bye-bye DRM.
    --
    Shaun.
    ~misfit~, May 6, 2007
    #20
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