spam levels dropped ?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by whoisthis, Nov 17, 2007.

  1. whoisthis

    whoisthis Guest

    At work I need to check my spam as I can not afford to have any false
    positives, however what I have noticed is that my spam levels have
    dropped about 90% is the last couple of days......... is this just me
    being lucky or is this more wide spread.
    whoisthis, Nov 17, 2007
    #1
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  2. whoisthis

    Donchano Guest

    On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 07:36:23 +1300, whoisthis <>
    magnanimously proffered:

    >At work I need to check my spam as I can not afford to have any false
    >positives, however what I have noticed is that my spam levels have
    >dropped about 90% is the last couple of days......... is this just me
    >being lucky or is this more wide spread.


    Over the past three or four days I've noticed that FINALLY for the
    first time after ongoing Xtra's Bubble fiasco my inbox wasn't 3/4 full
    of obvious (Spamcop blacklisted) spam. And instead of 75 to 100 pieces
    of spam in my "bulk" folder, I'm down to maybe ten or twelve,
    including several false positives a day.

    So ... like you, I have to check my bulk file several times a day to
    retrieve perfectly legitimate emails. A pain in the ass, but that's
    Xtra's middle name. And POS is Bubble's middle name.
    Donchano, Nov 17, 2007
    #2
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  3. On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 07:57:54 +1300, Donchano wrote:

    > So ... like you, I have to check my bulk file several times a day to
    > retrieve perfectly legitimate emails. A pain in the ass, but that's
    > Xtra's middle name. And POS is Bubble's middle name.


    And I only rarely get any spam - and it is normally clearly marked spam by
    the server if it appears in my second email address on the same server.

    It appears to me that there are several key points to being targeted for
    SPAM:

    1/ the use of a domain name that is widely used by others - such as the
    domain name of ISPs like Xtra/Telecom or iHUG,

    2/ or the domain name of a large corporation

    3/ or the email address can be found on a website or some other Internet
    accessible forum that is easily spidered by a spammer's
    email-address-harvesting system.

    If you arrange to have no email address with your domain name appearing on
    any website (note that is not the same as not enabling someone to be able
    to email you from your website, nor is it the same as someone not being
    able to view your email address on a web page or otherwise click on your
    email address and then send you an email if they have Java-script running)
    or if you do not use a domain name that is used by others, then you should
    expect to get very little spam at all.


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Jonathan Walker, Nov 17, 2007
    #3
  4. whoisthis

    Donchano Guest

    On 18 Nov 2007 10:59:12 +1300, Jonathan Walker <>
    magnanimously proffered:

    >On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 07:57:54 +1300, Donchano wrote:
    >
    >> So ... like you, I have to check my bulk file several times a day to
    >> retrieve perfectly legitimate emails. A pain in the ass, but that's
    >> Xtra's middle name. And POS is Bubble's middle name.

    >
    >And I only rarely get any spam - and it is normally clearly marked spam by
    >the server if it appears in my second email address on the same server.
    >
    >It appears to me that there are several key points to being targeted for
    >SPAM:
    >
    >1/ the use of a domain name that is widely used by others - such as the
    >domain name of ISPs like Xtra/Telecom or iHUG,
    >
    >2/ or the domain name of a large corporation
    >
    >3/ or the email address can be found on a website or some other Internet
    >accessible forum that is easily spidered by a spammer's
    >email-address-harvesting system.
    >
    >If you arrange to have no email address with your domain name appearing on
    >any website (note that is not the same as not enabling someone to be able
    >to email you from your website, nor is it the same as someone not being
    >able to view your email address on a web page or otherwise click on your
    >email address and then send you an email if they have Java-script running)
    >or if you do not use a domain name that is used by others, then you should
    >expect to get very little spam at all.


    Good advice. Unfortunately, it doesn't explain either my spam or false
    positive problems because:

    1. No individual besides me knows my Xtra email address because I
    never use it in emails, online forms or purchases, etc, etc.

    2. The only organisations that know that address are Xtra and my
    secure, password only webhost account which is configured to forward
    my domain mail (excluding throwaway addresses) to my Xtra address.

    3. The spam and bulk mail I'm getting doesn't come addressed to me at
    my Xtra address or any of my domain addresses. For example, It is
    addressed to a more generic address such as
    " ."

    4. The throwaway "my domain" addresses I use for idiots who might, and
    sometimes do, publish those address are forwarded to yet another
    throwaway webmail account that is configured to delete any email that
    is not from someone already in my address book.

    In other words, spammers somehow have access to Xtra data that allows
    them to send out spam to Xtra customers. And since I've only this
    monumental spam problem since Xtra introduced Yahoo-Xtra Bubble and -
    except for all the false positives - that problem seems to have
    improved immeasurably over the past few days, I think it's more than
    fair to conclude that the problem was entirely due to Yahoo-Xtra
    Bubble (or whatever the **** it's called) and not me.
    Donchano, Nov 17, 2007
    #4
  5. On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:32:49 +1300, Donchano wrote:

    > On 18 Nov 2007 10:59:12 +1300, Jonathan Walker <>
    > magnanimously proffered:
    >
    >>On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 07:57:54 +1300, Donchano wrote:
    >>
    >>> So ... like you, I have to check my bulk file several times a day to
    >>> retrieve perfectly legitimate emails. A pain in the ass, but that's
    >>> Xtra's middle name. And POS is Bubble's middle name.

    >>
    >>And I only rarely get any spam - and it is normally clearly marked spam by
    >>the server if it appears in my second email address on the same server.
    >>
    >>It appears to me that there are several key points to being targeted for
    >>SPAM:
    >>
    >>1/ the use of a domain name that is widely used by others - such as the
    >>domain name of ISPs like Xtra/Telecom or iHUG,
    >>
    >>2/ or the domain name of a large corporation
    >>
    >>3/ or the email address can be found on a website or some other Internet
    >>accessible forum that is easily spidered by a spammer's
    >>email-address-harvesting system.
    >>
    >>If you arrange to have no email address with your domain name appearing on
    >>any website (note that is not the same as not enabling someone to be able
    >>to email you from your website, nor is it the same as someone not being
    >>able to view your email address on a web page or otherwise click on your
    >>email address and then send you an email if they have Java-script running)
    >>or if you do not use a domain name that is used by others, then you should
    >>expect to get very little spam at all.

    >
    > Good advice. Unfortunately, it doesn't explain either my spam or false
    > positive problems because:
    >
    > 1. No individual besides me knows my Xtra email address because I
    > never use it in emails, online forms or purchases, etc, etc.


    However, it *is* an Xtra email address. See my point 1.


    > 2. The only organisations that know that address are Xtra and my
    > secure, password only webhost account which is configured to forward
    > my domain mail (excluding throwaway addresses) to my Xtra address.


    The password does not factor in this. See my point 1.


    > 3. The spam and bulk mail I'm getting doesn't come addressed to me at
    > my Xtra address or any of my domain addresses. For example, It is
    > addressed to a more generic address such as
    > " ."


    That means you must be being BCC'd into receiving that spam.

    Whether or not you are BCC'd, CC'd, or TO'd does not matter. The question
    is what method the spammer is using to get that spam to you.

    If your email address is not anywhere on the Internet, or in someone
    else's address book, then it is likely the spammer got your email address
    by some other method such as a dictionary attack, or even just a random
    send. If you read your email with some application that will automatically
    download any images from the WWW, then the spammer will instantly know
    that it has struck a valid email address - and you will be killed with
    spam!


    > 4. The throwaway "my domain" addresses I use for idiots who might, and
    > sometimes do, publish those address are forwarded to yet another
    > throwaway webmail account that is configured to delete any email that
    > is not from someone already in my address book.


    Does that throwaway webmail a/c use a common domain, such as Hotmail?

    Has the domain that you use for your throwaway webmail a/c already had
    spam sent to any email address at that domain?

    Remember - one of the things that spammers are looking for are not only
    valid user names, but valid domain names also.


    > In other words, spammers somehow have access to Xtra data that allows
    > them to send out spam to Xtra customers. And since I've only this
    > monumental spam problem since Xtra introduced Yahoo-Xtra Bubble and -
    > except for all the false positives - that problem seems to have
    > improved immeasurably over the past few days, I think it's more than
    > fair to conclude that the problem was entirely due to Yahoo-Xtra
    > Bubble (or whatever the **** it's called) and not me.


    What I think you're talking about is the change from Xtra hosting its own
    email servers, to Xtra using Yahoo as its email server.

    That's called outsourcing your email a/c to someone in the USA in order to
    reduce costs while at the same time charging you the same for it.


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Jonathan Walker, Nov 17, 2007
    #5
  6. whoisthis

    Donchano Guest

    On 18 Nov 2007 12:46:36 +1300, Jonathan Walker <>
    magnanimously proffered:

    >On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:32:49 +1300, Donchano wrote:
    >
    >> On 18 Nov 2007 10:59:12 +1300, Jonathan Walker <>
    >> magnanimously proffered:
    >>
    >>>On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 07:57:54 +1300, Donchano wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> So ... like you, I have to check my bulk file several times a day to
    >>>> retrieve perfectly legitimate emails. A pain in the ass, but that's
    >>>> Xtra's middle name. And POS is Bubble's middle name.
    >>>
    >>>And I only rarely get any spam - and it is normally clearly marked spam by
    >>>the server if it appears in my second email address on the same server.
    >>>
    >>>It appears to me that there are several key points to being targeted for
    >>>SPAM:
    >>>
    >>>1/ the use of a domain name that is widely used by others - such as the
    >>>domain name of ISPs like Xtra/Telecom or iHUG,
    >>>
    >>>2/ or the domain name of a large corporation
    >>>
    >>>3/ or the email address can be found on a website or some other Internet
    >>>accessible forum that is easily spidered by a spammer's
    >>>email-address-harvesting system.
    >>>
    >>>If you arrange to have no email address with your domain name appearing on
    >>>any website (note that is not the same as not enabling someone to be able
    >>>to email you from your website, nor is it the same as someone not being
    >>>able to view your email address on a web page or otherwise click on your
    >>>email address and then send you an email if they have Java-script running)
    >>>or if you do not use a domain name that is used by others, then you should
    >>>expect to get very little spam at all.

    >>
    >> Good advice. Unfortunately, it doesn't explain either my spam or false
    >> positive problems because:
    >>
    >> 1. No individual besides me knows my Xtra email address because I
    >> never use it in emails, online forms or purchases, etc, etc.

    >
    >However, it *is* an Xtra email address. See my point 1.


    Which only indicates that the spammers either have access to Xtra's
    database and/or using random addresses in the extra domain. The reason
    I find the later to be unlikely, is that my username address is not
    easily duplicated or guessed at. Then again, I'm sure there's software
    that can throw out combinations that would eventually come up with my
    username.
    >
    >
    >> 2. The only organisations that know that address are Xtra and my
    >> secure, password only webhost account which is configured to forward
    >> my domain mail (excluding throwaway addresses) to my Xtra address.

    >
    >The password does not factor in this. See my point 1.


    Ditto.

    >
    >> 3. The spam and bulk mail I'm getting doesn't come addressed to me at
    >> my Xtra address or any of my domain addresses. For example, It is
    >> addressed to a more generic address such as
    >> " ."

    >
    >That means you must be being BCC'd into receiving that spam.
    >
    >Whether or not you are BCC'd, CC'd, or TO'd does not matter. The question
    >is what method the spammer is using to get that spam to you.
    >
    >If your email address is not anywhere on the Internet, or in someone
    >else's address book, then it is likely the spammer got your email address
    >by some other method such as a dictionary attack, or even just a random
    >send. If you read your email with some application that will automatically
    >download any images from the WWW, then the spammer will instantly know
    >that it has struck a valid email address - and you will be killed with
    >spam!


    My email client (Thunderbird) is configured NOT to download any images
    or html message bodies unless the sender is already in my address
    book.

    >
    >> 4. The throwaway "my domain" addresses I use for idiots who might, and
    >> sometimes do, publish those address are forwarded to yet another
    >> throwaway webmail account that is configured to delete any email that
    >> is not from someone already in my address book.

    >
    >Does that throwaway webmail a/c use a common domain, such as Hotmail?


    Yes. They use my domain.

    >Has the domain that you use for your throwaway webmail a/c already had
    >spam sent to any email address at that domain?


    Yes, but unless I've configured it otherwise, all those go to the
    throwaway webmail address and never make it to that inbox (because
    they're not in that address book).

    >Remember - one of the things that spammers are looking for are not only
    >valid user names, but valid domain names also.
    >
    >
    >> In other words, spammers somehow have access to Xtra data that allows
    >> them to send out spam to Xtra customers. And since I've only this
    >> monumental spam problem since Xtra introduced Yahoo-Xtra Bubble and -
    >> except for all the false positives - that problem seems to have
    >> improved immeasurably over the past few days, I think it's more than
    >> fair to conclude that the problem was entirely due to Yahoo-Xtra
    >> Bubble (or whatever the **** it's called) and not me.

    >
    >What I think you're talking about is the change from Xtra hosting its own
    >email servers, to Xtra using Yahoo as its email server.
    >
    >That's called outsourcing your email a/c to someone in the USA in order to
    >reduce costs while at the same time charging you the same for it.


    Right. And, as I stated previously, I had no major spam problems (eg:
    I had only two or three pieces of spam per week), until Xtra
    outsourced it's email service.

    Since then I have experienced huge problems with both spam and false
    positives (eg: Yahoo's filters treating legitimate email as spam.).

    This situation has only improved over the past few days, suggesting
    rather strongly that the problem is with Yahoo-Xtra's filters and not
    the way I've dealt with my email account.

    For example, by the time the idiots at Xtra informed me (and everyone
    else) about Yahoo Bubble and I was finally able to actually access my
    Xtra webmail account with the new Bubble software, I discovered
    something like 80 or 90 legitimate emails amongst the 300+emails in
    the bulk (spam) folder. Which explained why I hadn't been receiving
    emails I should have.

    Xtra's outsourced "helpdesk" told me to import my email client address
    book into my new Yahoo Bubble interface and that would solve most of
    the false negative problems. What the idiots didn't tell me - because
    they didn't know - is that the new default Yahoo Bubble interface
    wasn't set up so that I - or anyone else - could import an address
    book. So another week went by until one tech finally twigged to the
    problem and suggested I revert back to the "basic" interface.

    That was a couple of months ago. Since then my account has been
    inundated with spam - a problem I didn't have before the migration -
    and the false positive problem continued, though not at the same
    volume. Even emails from Xtra ended up in the bulk (spam) folder.
    That's how inaccurate the new filter was.

    So, as I stated in my original post, even though Xtra-Yahoo-Whatever
    appears to have solved the spam problem (fingers crossed), I still
    have to check my webmail several times a day to catch the legitimate
    email the idiots are still tagging as spam.

    I repeat: that's Xtra-Yahoo's fault. Not mine.
    Donchano, Nov 18, 2007
    #6
  7. On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:32:09 +1300, Donchano wrote:

    > My email client (Thunderbird) is configured NOT to download any images
    > or html message bodies unless the sender is already in my address
    > book.


    And what if the sender's Windows box was compromised and it started
    sending out SPAM to the planet - including to those in that poor person's
    email address book?


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Jonathan Walker, Nov 18, 2007
    #7
  8. On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:32:09 +1300, Donchano wrote:

    > I repeat: that's Xtra-Yahoo's fault. Not mine.


    Nobody is suggesting that anything is "your fault".

    If you have an issue with the QOS you're getting from Telecom/Xtra, then
    tell it, get another ISP, and show the mono-finger to Telecom/Xtra by
    closing your a/c with that monopolistic corporation.


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Jonathan Walker, Nov 18, 2007
    #8
  9. whoisthis

    peter Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > At work I need to check my spam as I can not afford to have any false
    > positives, however what I have noticed is that my spam levels have
    > dropped about 90% is the last couple of days......... is this just me
    > being lucky or is this more wide spread.


    yes, it does seem to have reduced in volume recently.


    Peter
    peter, Nov 18, 2007
    #9
  10. whoisthis

    Donchano Guest

    On 18 Nov 2007 18:13:20 +1300, Jonathan Walker <>
    magnanimously proffered:

    >On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:32:09 +1300, Donchano wrote:
    >
    >> My email client (Thunderbird) is configured NOT to download any images
    >> or html message bodies unless the sender is already in my address
    >> book.

    >
    >And what if the sender's Windows box was compromised and it started
    >sending out SPAM to the planet - including to those in that poor person's
    >email address book?


    And suddenly - and only - all this happens when Xtra migrates its
    email server to Yahoo? And just as suddenly it stops happening? Give
    me a break ...
    Donchano, Nov 18, 2007
    #10
  11. whoisthis

    Donchano Guest

    On 18 Nov 2007 18:18:44 +1300, Jonathan Walker <>
    magnanimously proffered:

    >On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:32:09 +1300, Donchano wrote:
    >
    >> I repeat: that's Xtra-Yahoo's fault. Not mine.

    >
    >Nobody is suggesting that anything is "your fault".


    Then why the holy living **** have you made such a point of excreting
    all that self-serving crap that has had absolutely nothing whatsoever
    to do with the situation I described in my original post?
    >
    >If you have an issue with the QOS you're getting from Telecom/Xtra, then
    >tell it, get another ISP, and show the mono-finger to Telecom/Xtra by
    >closing your a/c with that monopolistic corporation.


    Oh **** off, Jonathan Walker ... and take your smug, patronising,
    pontificating prattle with you. I will do what I want, when I want,
    and for the reasons that suit me. In the meantime, kindly take my
    mono-finger, sit on it and spin.
    Donchano, Nov 18, 2007
    #11
  12. On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:27:08 +1300, Donchano wrote:

    > I will do what I want, when I want, and for the reasons that suit me.


    Of course! I expected nothing other than that from you.


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Jonathan Walker, Nov 18, 2007
    #12
  13. On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:16:55 +1300, Donchano wrote:

    >>And what if the sender's Windows box was compromised and it started
    >>sending out SPAM to the planet - including to those in that poor person's
    >>email address book?

    >
    > And suddenly - and only - all this happens when Xtra migrates its
    > email server to Yahoo? And just as suddenly it stops happening?


    QUOTE:
    "And what if ..."
    ENDQUOTE


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Jonathan Walker, Nov 18, 2007
    #13
  14. whoisthis

    thingy Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    > At work I need to check my spam as I can not afford to have any false
    > positives, however what I have noticed is that my spam levels have
    > dropped about 90% is the last couple of days......... is this just me
    > being lucky or is this more wide spread.


    Seems to have ramped up greatly over the last month, however my "gut
    feel" this morning is its either not ramped up over the weekend ie
    leveled, or has indeed dropped slightly as my junk folder is 31 odd
    instead of 40+. I have noticed a lot of missed spam though so maybe its
    just been more effective in bypassing our filters. Virtually all of that
    was dodgy software and penis enlargement trash....

    Some of them make me laugh....like "have you noticed your penis is
    smaller than all the other guys?" like I go looking.....the people who
    make up this crap must have real issues...

    ;]

    My home stuff is definitely lighter and with grey listing stopping the
    spam bots its just the hotmail stuff etc that gets through and was
    increasing....this weekend I had none of that...so maybe the web mail
    providers improved things?

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Nov 18, 2007
    #14
  15. whoisthis

    Enkidu Guest

    whoisthis wrote:
    >
    > At work I need to check my spam as I can not afford to have any false
    > positives, however what I have noticed is that my spam levels have
    > dropped about 90% is the last couple of days......... is this just me
    > being lucky or is this more wide spread.
    >

    It'd depend on your ISP, most likely, but I've seen no decrease in SPAM,
    rather the reverse in fact. Likely you are not seeing a lot of the mail
    that is sent to you by others.

    Email that is in your inbox and your SPAM folders on your ISP or your
    computer itself represent only that part of the email that was sent to
    you that has made it through. There may be email that has been sent to
    you but which you have not received in any way - it hasn't made it
    through. With more senders' ISPs filtering outgoing mail this is going
    to happen more often.

    Bottom line - email is not reliable, so don't rely on it.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Have you ever noticed that if something is advertised as 'amusing' or
    'hilarious', it usually isn't?
    Enkidu, Nov 18, 2007
    #15
  16. whoisthis

    Donchano Guest

    On 19 Nov 2007 06:32:32 +1300, Jonathan Walker <>
    magnanimously proffered:

    >On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:27:08 +1300, Donchano wrote:
    >
    >> I will do what I want, when I want, and for the reasons that suit me.

    >
    >Of course! I expected nothing other than that from you.


    I'm pleased not to have disappointed you.
    Donchano, Nov 18, 2007
    #16
  17. whoisthis

    Donchano Guest

    On 19 Nov 2007 06:34:08 +1300, Jonathan Walker <>
    magnanimously proffered:

    >On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:16:55 +1300, Donchano wrote:
    >
    >>>And what if the sender's Windows box was compromised and it started
    >>>sending out SPAM to the planet - including to those in that poor person's
    >>>email address book?

    >>
    >> And suddenly - and only - all this happens when Xtra migrates its
    >> email server to Yahoo? And just as suddenly it stops happening?

    >
    >QUOTE:
    >"And what if ..."
    >ENDQUOTE


    "And what if" you didn't go out of your way to be argumentative? A
    good reading comprehension course might help you, but I have this
    sneaking feeling that your act is as deliberate as it is tedious.
    Donchano, Nov 18, 2007
    #17
  18. On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:51:53 +1300, Donchano wrote:

    >>> I will do what I want, when I want, and for the reasons that suit me.

    >>
    >>Of course! I expected nothing other than that from you.

    >
    > I'm pleased not to have disappointed you.


    I really don't care whether or not you, a complete unknown, choose to
    accept an observation about how and why people end up getting spam; or to
    consider a suggestion on how to set about improving the QOS that you're
    getting WRT your email service.

    Of course that is entirely your call.

    Your aggressive response is, however, very revealing about your attitude.


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Jonathan Walker, Nov 19, 2007
    #18
  19. On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:02:57 +1300, Donchano wrote:

    > "And what if" you didn't go out of your way to be argumentative?


    I'm not.

    I merely set forth a possibility - a *possibility*. It is, of course up to
    you to assess the source of all that spam that you're getting and deal to
    that source in an appropriate manner.

    As they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Jonathan Walker, Nov 19, 2007
    #19
  20. whoisthis

    Donchano Guest

    On 19 Nov 2007 19:22:47 +1300, Jonathan Walker <>
    magnanimously proffered:

    >On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:02:57 +1300, Donchano wrote:
    >
    >> "And what if" you didn't go out of your way to be argumentative?

    >
    >I'm not.
    >
    >I merely set forth a possibility - a *possibility*. It is, of course up to
    >you to assess the source of all that spam that you're getting and deal to
    >that source in an appropriate manner.


    Even after I made it clear (to everyone but you) that none of your
    advice applied.

    >As they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


    As they also say: beware of those who cut off others' heads to make
    themselves look taller.

    --

    Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and
    beat you with experience.
    Donchano, Nov 20, 2007
    #20
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