Sound Waves

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Dodgy Dave, Oct 25, 2003.

  1. Dodgy Dave

    Dodgy Dave Guest

    I've just moved into a new flat & obviously don't want to upset my new
    neighbours with loud music. Someone lives up and down from my flat. My
    question is - does sound waves travel up or down or outwards? I don't play
    music loud, but feel that i'm entitled to play music at a reasonable level
    in my own home whilst not overdoing the volume. Don't want to piss the
    neighbours off tho so would appreciate any advice. I did have my speakers on
    the window ledge, but have invested in some wall mounted speaker brackets -
    would this reduce the sound travelling up and down the building. Any ideas?
    Thanx.
     
    Dodgy Dave, Oct 25, 2003
    #1
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  2. Dodgy Dave

    Jerry G. Guest

    A better place to ask this type of question is in the group
    sci.electronics.repair and sci.electronics.misc

    This is off the subject of this news group, but you may find it interesting.
    If you don't like it, or want to miss the following, just move on...

    To start with, sound is pushing air back and forth at a high velocity (speed
    of sound) The velocity and inertia of the sound is depended also on the room
    temperature, humidity, and barometric pressure. Larger speakers and more
    power will be able to push a greater amount of air, thus penetrate better.
    If the room temperature is cooler, the sound will also penetrate more.
    These effects under normal living conditions are only measurable with the
    proper instruments.

    Your resolve would be to have the walls, floor, and ceiling acoustically
    insulated. There are various specialized materials for this. In large
    apartment complexes that are considered sound proof (most are only partially
    sound proof), they use insulation in the walls that have some acoustic
    insulation specifications combined with the RH factor insulation quality. In
    the standard duplex, or lower cost buildings, the people who are building
    them are only interested in having the least cost, therefore do not pay
    attention to sound proofing.

    Simple physics of sound is when there are sound waves striking an object,
    the object will conduct these waves if there is nothing to block them from
    striking. The characteristics of the object such as the size, surface areas,
    mass, and natural resonance will effect how it will react. The larger the
    surface area, the more sound waves can hit it, therefore there is more force
    over its surface area. All objects will also react differently due to their
    natural resonance.

    You can stop some of the radiated vibration of your speaker boxes by not
    wall mounting them. Wall mounting gives a direct coupling to the wall. In
    your case you want the opposite. The farther away they are from any wall,
    floor, or ceiling, the less effect they will have on the surfaces. Mounting
    them on something like sponge, or a poor acoustic coupling material will
    lessen the direct acoustic conductivity to the surface that they are resting
    on. The energy effect of the sound drops off with distance. It follows the
    inverse square law factor. This is where Db measurements come in. This can
    be translated to acoustic force.

    Infact, sound waves can be so powerful they can be made in to a weapon, if
    the proper frequency and power levels are applied. The necessary acoustic
    equipment is required as well. I have seen large systems in homes actually
    do structural damage to the building, because the user decided to play their
    favourite music very loud.

    It is said that Enrico Caruso, and Italian opera singer Beniamino Gigli in
    the 1940's that managed to break a wine glass with their voice! I have only
    seen this done with specialized audio equipment. Also Ella Fitzgerald has
    demonstrated this. Infact she did this in a Memorex commercial.

    I hope that this little explanation gives you an idea of why it is difficult
    to accomplish what you want to do. You will need tolerant neighbours. You
    can check the local by-laws for your area. In the area where I live, we can
    make up to a certain amount of Db's of noise between the hours of 10:00 to
    21:00. After 21:00 if there is more than 3 complaints, an expensive fine
    can be sent to the abuser. After 2 fines, a court order will be issued to a
    bailiff to seize the audio equipment. I live in a large condo complex, and
    have seen this happen to a few people in the area. So, there is not very
    much noise around here. This is why I moved here.

    --

    Greetings,

    Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
    =========================================
    WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
    Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
    =========================================


    "Dodgy Dave" <> wrote in message
    news:bndgvl$rhp3s$-berlin.de...
    I've just moved into a new flat & obviously don't want to upset my new
    neighbours with loud music. Someone lives up and down from my flat. My
    question is - does sound waves travel up or down or outwards? I don't play
    music loud, but feel that i'm entitled to play music at a reasonable level
    in my own home whilst not overdoing the volume. Don't want to piss the
    neighbours off tho so would appreciate any advice. I did have my speakers on
    the window ledge, but have invested in some wall mounted speaker brackets -
    would this reduce the sound travelling up and down the building. Any ideas?
    Thanx.
     
    Jerry G., Oct 25, 2003
    #2
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  3. Dodgy Dave

    philo Guest

    "Dodgy Dave" <> wrote in message
    news:bndgvl$rhp3s$-berlin.de...
    > I've just moved into a new flat & obviously don't want to upset my new
    > neighbours with loud music. Someone lives up and down from my flat. My
    > question is - does sound waves travel up or down or outwards? I don't play
    > music loud, but feel that i'm entitled to play music at a reasonable level
    > in my own home whilst not overdoing the volume. Don't want to piss the
    > neighbours off tho so would appreciate any advice. I did have my speakers

    on
    > the window ledge, but have invested in some wall mounted speaker

    brackets -
    > would this reduce the sound travelling up and down the building. Any

    ideas?
    > Thanx.
    >
    >


    sound travels in all directions...
    but moves faster in both solids and liquids...

    so if the speakers are wall mounted, the sound may conduct
    a little better into the neighboring apartments...

    however...considerate people like you , who even think to ask
    are kind of a rarity...

    the best thing to do would be to simply talk to your neighbors
    and tell them to contact you if the music is too loud...

    otherwise you might want to consider wireless headphones
     
    philo, Oct 25, 2003
    #3
  4. On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:16:51 GMT in 24hoursupport.helpdesk, my mind
    boggled at the following statement by Jerry G. in message
    news:bndmes$ddc$

    > A better place to ask this type of question is in the group
    > sci.electronics.repair and sci.electronics.misc
    >
    > This is off the subject of this news group,


    No, it's not.

    > but you may find it
    > interesting. If you don't like it, or want to miss the following, just
    > move on...
    >

    snip

    --
    The Old Sourdough
    No of SETI units returned: 2280
    Processing time: 4 years, 169 days, 7 hours.
    (Total hours: 39103)
    www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu
     
    The Old Sourdough, Oct 25, 2003
    #4
  5. Dodgy Dave

    slumpy Guest

    "So, Mr Slumpy you *really* are the perpetual comedian, aren't you ?" I
    threw back my head and roared with laughter as Dodgy Dave continued:

    > I've just moved into a new flat & obviously don't want to upset my new
    > neighbours with loud music. Someone lives up and down from my flat. My
    > question is - does sound waves travel up or down or outwards? I don't
    > play music loud, but feel that i'm entitled to play music at a
    > reasonable level in my own home whilst not overdoing the volume.
    > Don't want to piss the neighbours off tho so would appreciate any
    > advice. I did have my speakers on the window ledge, but have invested
    > in some wall mounted speaker brackets - would this reduce the sound
    > travelling up and down the building. Any ideas? Thanx.


    My mate has his speakers suspended on wires from his ceiling. The sound
    can still rupture your inner organs at 10 paces, but leaves upstairs and
    downstairs only needing minor medical care.
    --
    slumpy
    no more
    no less
    just slumpy
     
    slumpy, Oct 25, 2003
    #5
  6. Dodgy Dave

    Shep© Guest

    On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:48:40 +0100, Knowing that it was a Hollywood
    invention that lemmings jump off cliffs "Dodgy Dave"
    <> wrote :

    >I've just moved into a new flat & obviously don't want to upset my new
    >neighbours with loud music. Someone lives up and down from my flat. My
    >question is - does sound waves travel up or down or outwards? I don't play
    >music loud, but feel that i'm entitled to play music at a reasonable level
    >in my own home whilst not overdoing the volume. Don't want to piss the
    >neighbours off tho so would appreciate any advice. I did have my speakers on
    >the window ledge, but have invested in some wall mounted speaker brackets -
    >would this reduce the sound travelling up and down the building. Any ideas?
    >Thanx.
    >


    Headphones?
     
    Shep©, Oct 25, 2003
    #6
  7. Dodgy Dave

    Mara Guest

    On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:49:19 -0500, The Old Sourdough wrote:

    >On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:16:51 GMT in 24hoursupport.helpdesk, my mind
    >boggled at the following statement by Jerry G. in message
    >news:bndmes$ddc$
    >
    >> A better place to ask this type of question is in the group
    >> sci.electronics.repair and sci.electronics.misc
    >>
    >> This is off the subject of this news group,

    >
    >No, it's not.


    Good God, not _another_ one.

    "Don't they <s/they/newbies/clueless> ever, ever learn?"

    <snip>

    --
    <fnord> (AB deserves to get paid more than me; I just deal with
    machines, he deals with lusers)
    <AB> fnord: I deal with suits, too.
    * AB selects "Speaker to Morons" as his Kzinti name.
     
    Mara, Oct 25, 2003
    #7
  8. Dodgy Dave wrote:

    > I've just moved into a new flat & obviously don't want to upset my new
    > neighbours with loud music. Someone lives up and down from my flat. My
    > question is - does sound waves travel up or down or outwards? I don't


    Bass notes are heaviest, and gravity pulls them downward. You can see
    this effect represented in sheet music by the way the lower notes are
    down by the floor -- and sometimes even on the basement steps. Highs
    are lighter and rise to the ceiling, where they float around rather like
    cirrus clouds, only invisible.

    The midrange frequencies largely propagate horizontally, to fill the
    area between the others. This leads to midrange retention in open
    containers, such as a tumbler or an empty bowl that's left on the coffee
    table, where you can sometimes still hear them even after all of the
    rest of the music has dissipated. If you hold one of these to your ear,
    being careful not to spill it, sometimes you can even hear the ocean --
    this is what musicians refer to as middle sea.

    --
    Blinky - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Linux RU 297263
    Microsoft, 23 Oct: "As a result of challenges to our business model,
    sales of our products may decline, we may have to reduce the prices
    we charge for our products..." http://snipurl.com/open_source
     
    Blinky the Shark, Oct 25, 2003
    #8
  9. Jerry G. wrote:

    > Infact, sound waves can be so powerful they can be made in to a weapon, if
    > the proper frequency and power levels are applied. The necessary acoustic
    > equipment is required as well. I have seen large systems in homes actually
    > do structural damage to the building, because the user decided to play
    > their favourite music very loud.
    >
    > It is said that Enrico Caruso, and Italian opera singer Beniamino Gigli
    > in the 1940's that managed to break a wine glass with their voice! I have
    > only seen this done with specialized audio equipment. Also Ella Fitzgerald
    > has demonstrated this. Infact she did this in a Memorex commercial.


    The key here is the proper FREQUENCY. The FDA cracked down on Memorex for
    implying that there was something about Memorex tape and only Memorex tape
    which would cause the glass to break. WRONG. All one needs is a recording
    of any sound at the same frequency as the resonant frequency of the glass.
    This sets the glass to vibrating sympathetically with the sound; the glass
    shatters because it is vibrating.

    --
    Gary G. Taylor * Rialto, CA
    gary at donavan dot org / http:// geetee dot donavan dot org
    "The two most abundant things in the universe
    are hydrogen and stupidity." --Harlan Ellison
     
    Gary G. Taylor, Oct 25, 2003
    #9
  10. On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:15:31 GMT in 24hoursupport.helpdesk, my mind boggled
    at the following statement by Mara in message
    news:

    > On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:49:19 -0500, The Old Sourdough wrote:
    >
    >>On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:16:51 GMT in 24hoursupport.helpdesk, my mind
    >>boggled at the following statement by Jerry G. in message
    >>news:bndmes$ddc$
    >>
    >>> A better place to ask this type of question is in the group
    >>> sci.electronics.repair and sci.electronics.misc
    >>>
    >>> This is off the subject of this news group,

    >>
    >>No, it's not.

    >
    > Good God, not _another_ one.
    >
    > "Don't they <s/they/newbies/clueless> ever, ever learn?"
    >
    > <snip>
    >


    And you'd think, since he has posted here before, that he'd at least have a
    slight hint of clue.

    --
    The Old Sourdough
    No of SETI units returned: 2280
    Processing time: 4 years, 169 days, 7 hours.
    (Total hours: 39103)
    www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu
     
    The Old Sourdough, Oct 25, 2003
    #10
  11. On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:52:17 GMT in 24hoursupport.helpdesk, my mind boggled
    at the following statement by Blinky the Shark in message
    news:

    snip
    > Bass notes are heaviest, and gravity pulls them downward. You can see
    > this effect represented in sheet music by the way the lower notes are
    > down by the floor -- and sometimes even on the basement steps. Highs
    > are lighter and rise to the ceiling, where they float around rather like
    > cirrus clouds, only invisible.
    >
    > The midrange frequencies largely propagate horizontally, to fill the
    > area between the others. This leads to midrange retention in open
    > containers, such as a tumbler or an empty bowl that's left on the coffee
    > table, where you can sometimes still hear them even after all of the
    > rest of the music has dissipated. If you hold one of these to your ear,
    > being careful not to spill it, sometimes you can even hear the ocean --
    > this is what musicians refer to as middle sea.
    >


    SPLORF!!! Dammit, Blinky, now I've gotta clean the BEER!!11!! offa this
    monitor (again).

    --
    The Old Sourdough
    No of SETI units returned: 2280
    Processing time: 4 years, 169 days, 7 hours.
    (Total hours: 39103)
    www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu
     
    The Old Sourdough, Oct 25, 2003
    #11
  12. Dodgy Dave

    Shep© Guest

    On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:38:34 -0500, Knowing that it was a Hollywood
    invention that lemmings jump off cliffs The Old Sourdough
    <> wrote :

    >On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:52:17 GMT in 24hoursupport.helpdesk, my mind boggled
    >at the following statement by Blinky the Shark in message
    >news:
    >
    >snip
    >> Bass notes are heaviest, and gravity pulls them downward. You can see
    >> this effect represented in sheet music by the way the lower notes are
    >> down by the floor -- and sometimes even on the basement steps. Highs
    >> are lighter and rise to the ceiling, where they float around rather like
    >> cirrus clouds, only invisible.
    >>
    >> The midrange frequencies largely propagate horizontally, to fill the
    >> area between the others. This leads to midrange retention in open
    >> containers, such as a tumbler or an empty bowl that's left on the coffee
    >> table, where you can sometimes still hear them even after all of the
    >> rest of the music has dissipated. If you hold one of these to your ear,
    >> being careful not to spill it, sometimes you can even hear the ocean --
    >> this is what musicians refer to as middle sea.
    >>

    >
    >SPLORF!!! Dammit, Blinky, now I've gotta clean the BEER!!11!! offa this
    >monitor (again).


    LOL :D
     
    Shep©, Oct 25, 2003
    #12
  13. Dodgy Dave

    Mara Guest

    On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:36:05 -0500, The Old Sourdough wrote:

    >On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:15:31 GMT in 24hoursupport.helpdesk, my mind boggled
    >at the following statement by Mara in message
    >news:
    >
    >> On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:49:19 -0500, The Old Sourdough wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:16:51 GMT in 24hoursupport.helpdesk, my mind
    >>>boggled at the following statement by Jerry G. in message
    >>>news:bndmes$ddc$
    >>>
    >>>> A better place to ask this type of question is in the group
    >>>> sci.electronics.repair and sci.electronics.misc
    >>>>
    >>>> This is off the subject of this news group,
    >>>
    >>>No, it's not.

    >>
    >> Good God, not _another_ one.
    >>
    >> "Don't they <s/they/newbies/clueless> ever, ever learn?"
    >>
    >> <snip>
    >>

    >
    >And you'd think, since he has posted here before, that he'd at least have a
    >slight hint of clue.


    Nah, after what's been posted so far today I've given up all hope.

    Except for you. And °Mike°. And the glurd. And some others....

    (Notice I didn't include myself in that group. (TING))

    So, ok, I haven't given up all hope _just_ yet.

    "Seems to be infectious, or something, and I'm sick enough as it is, at the
    moment. Pfffffffft."

    --
    <fnord> (AB deserves to get paid more than me; I just deal with
    machines, he deals with lusers)
    <AB> fnord: I deal with suits, too.
    * AB selects "Speaker to Morons" as his Kzinti name.
     
    Mara, Oct 25, 2003
    #13
  14. Dodgy Dave

    Ralph Mann Guest

    Dodgy Dave said:

    > Thanks to everyone for their advice. Think i'll contact the other residents
    > to ask if they have any problems then let me know.


    Place your speakers on a rubber mat, or better still, mount them on a stand that
    has only four single points (like nails) touching the floor or window-sill.
    Have a word in a decent stereo shop they should be able to show you what I mean.
    Wall mountings will permit the sounds to travel through the brickwork.
    Treble and mid-range are directional, whilst bass just "fills" the room.
    Hold a sub-woofer system near your face and the sound will not blast you, but
    will still appear to be coming from your other speakers.

    > "Dodgy Dave" <> wrote in message
    > news:bndgvl$rhp3s$-berlin.de...
    >> I've just moved into a new flat & obviously don't want to upset my new
    >> neighbours with loud music. Someone lives up and down from my flat. My
    >> question is - does sound waves travel up or down or outwards? I don't play
    >> music loud, but feel that i'm entitled to play music at a reasonable level
    >> in my own home whilst not overdoing the volume. Don't want to piss the
    >> neighbours off tho so would appreciate any advice. I did have my speakers on
    >> the window ledge, but have invested in some wall mounted speaker

    > brackets -
    >> would this reduce the sound travelling up and down the building. Any ideas?
    >> Thanx.
     
    Ralph Mann, Oct 26, 2003
    #14
  15. Dodgy Dave

    Dodgy Dave Guest

    Thanks to everyone for their advice. Think i'll contact the other residents
    to ask if they have any problems then let me know.
    "Dodgy Dave" <> wrote in message
    news:bndgvl$rhp3s$-berlin.de...
    > I've just moved into a new flat & obviously don't want to upset my new
    > neighbours with loud music. Someone lives up and down from my flat. My
    > question is - does sound waves travel up or down or outwards? I don't play
    > music loud, but feel that i'm entitled to play music at a reasonable level
    > in my own home whilst not overdoing the volume. Don't want to piss the
    > neighbours off tho so would appreciate any advice. I did have my speakers

    on
    > the window ledge, but have invested in some wall mounted speaker

    brackets -
    > would this reduce the sound travelling up and down the building. Any

    ideas?
    > Thanx.
    >
    >
     
    Dodgy Dave, Oct 27, 2003
    #15
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