Sony's day just gets worse and worse

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by thing2, Nov 23, 2005.

  1. thing2

    thing2 Guest

    thing2, Nov 23, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. thing2

    ~misfit~ Guest

    thing2 wrote:
    > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20051121215116613


    Good. Thanks for the link.

    On another note, I finally managed to copy my Massive Attack, Mezzanine CD a
    couple days ago. I think it's the only copy-protected CD I own as I pretty
    much stopped buying CDs when copy-protection became common. (Coincidently I
    finally went on the invalid's benefit about then too).

    I love this CD, one of my all-time top 20, as far as playing it regularly
    still, goes. Great to drive too, to get mellow to, to make love to, even to
    go to sleep to. (Don't try them all at once folks!) However, all this
    listening to it in a wide range of places and CD players have taken it's
    toll. I'm always careful but it's starting to show scratches. Oh well, I
    bought it the week it came out, in 1998.

    I've always had trouble when I tried to copy it and didn't know why
    (copy-protection wasn't common back then). With my favourite CDs, I copy
    them, but the original away and listen to the copy until/if it needs
    re-copying. I wish good copying technology was avaialable when, out of
    frustration, I finally gave my LP collection away nearly 20 years ago. I
    mean, I've paid the royalties, I feel I should still be able to own a copy
    of the music. (I gave the records away as I'd been overseas and left them,
    around four beer crates full, with a mate who I thought would look after
    them, supposedly in storage. On returning to NZ I couldn't wait to listen to
    some of the stuff I'd been missing... F*ck me! Half of them were unplayably
    scratched!)

    Sorry, digression, not like me. :) Anyway, Mezzanine, on being put in a PC,
    always has trouble with track one but the rest play fine. Copying it has
    cost me quite a few coasters over the years. I tried extracting an image
    with the latest version of EAC the other day but that failed. It seems there
    are a *whole bunch* of deliberately introduced errors in track one that
    dedicated CD players just ignore but PCs barf on. Also, when I've tried to
    rip it for my mp3 collection that I have on random mst days it's (any ripper
    I've tried) never been able to rip track one.

    I solved the problem by making an image of it with CloneCD, ripping it as a
    'protected game CD', then writing from the image as a 'music CD'. It finally
    worked. I can now put the original away before it gets scratched too much.

    I hope Sony get slapped silly.
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Nov 23, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:59:55 +1300, someone purporting to be ~misfit~
    didst scrawl:

    > thing2 wrote:

    *SNIP*
    > I solved the problem by making an image of it with CloneCD, ripping it as
    > a 'protected game CD', then writing from the image as a 'music CD'. It
    > finally worked. I can now put the original away before it gets scratched
    > too much.
    >

    *SNIP*

    I found, much to my amusement, that RealPlayer (the free edition) will
    happily rip copy-protected music CDs to MP3 (or AAC, or WMA, or WAV).
    This was a recently-released EMI CD, so I assume the copy protection on it
    was reasonably up-to-date. RealPlayer didn't blink.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Nov 23, 2005
    #3
  4. thing2

    steve Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:

    > On another note, I finally managed to copy my Massive Attack, Mezzanine CD
    > a couple days ago. I think it's the only copy-protected CD I own as I
    > pretty much stopped buying CDs when copy-protection became common.


    Same here.

    For me, by the time a song is fading off high-rotate, I've mor ethan heard
    it enough i don't need to own it,.

    Plus, the kids are older now and more discriminating.
     
    steve, Nov 23, 2005
    #4
  5. thing2

    thing2 Guest

    Robert Cooze wrote:
    > thing2 wrote:
    >
    >> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20051121215116613
    >>
    >> regards
    >>
    >> Thing
    >>

    > Only skimed the artical one question begs to be answered
    >
    > Q. If you dont accecept the EULA wich probhibits copining then If you
    > dont use the software on the disk are you free to copy? as you never
    > accepted the EULA and can not return the disk.
    >


    There is an interesting comment about throwing a brick through a window
    wrapped in a eula, ie by accepting this on your premises you agree that
    we are not liable for any damage etc etc....yeah right

    Interesting the the EFF have gone after Sony on the Eula as well, this
    could be a really interesting piece of case law once it is completed. ie
    hopefully they will greatly cutrail the so called terms in the eula that
    are way to excessive...

    regards

    Thing
     
    thing2, Nov 23, 2005
    #5
  6. thing2

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Matthew Poole wrote:
    > On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:59:55 +1300, someone purporting to be ~misfit~
    > didst scrawl:
    >
    >> thing2 wrote:

    > *SNIP*
    >> I solved the problem by making an image of it with CloneCD, ripping
    >> it as a 'protected game CD', then writing from the image as a 'music
    >> CD'. It finally worked. I can now put the original away before it
    >> gets scratched too much.
    >>

    > *SNIP*
    >
    > I found, much to my amusement, that RealPlayer (the free edition) will
    > happily rip copy-protected music CDs to MP3 (or AAC, or WMA, or WAV).
    > This was a recently-released EMI CD, so I assume the copy protection
    > on it was reasonably up-to-date. RealPlayer didn't blink.


    Very handy to know, thanks for that.
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Nov 24, 2005
    #6
  7. thing2

    ~misfit~ Guest

    steve wrote:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >
    >> On another note, I finally managed to copy my Massive Attack,
    >> Mezzanine CD a couple days ago. I think it's the only copy-protected
    >> CD I own as I pretty much stopped buying CDs when copy-protection
    >> became common.

    >
    > Same here.


    I play my CDs all over the place, in the car, in the DVD/CD player in the
    bedroom but mainly in the PC hooked up to the stereo in the living room. If
    I don't make a copy an put the original away it risks damage, especially in
    the car, it gets hot in there. Also, copy protected CDs often won't play in
    the living room PC-based system. Also, now with the rootkit thing I'm *not*
    putting a new CD in a PC. Ever.

    > For me, by the time a song is fading off high-rotate, I've mor ethan
    > heard it enough i don't need to own it,.


    Ok, I don't listen to the radio.

    > Plus, the kids are older now and more discriminating.


    LOL, that's always a good thing. :)
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Nov 24, 2005
    #7
  8. On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:50:05 +1300, someone purporting to be thing2 didst
    scrawl:

    > Robert Cooze wrote:

    *SNIP*
    > Interesting the the EFF have gone after Sony on the Eula as well, this
    > could be a really interesting piece of case law once it is completed. ie
    > hopefully they will greatly cutrail the so called terms in the eula that
    > are way to excessive...
    >

    The thing about Sony's EULA is that it's clearly and blatantly excessive.
    Revoking someone's right to listen music they have purchased if they file
    for bankruptcy? Sony cannot be held liable for breaking your computer?
    That's a crock, and any sane person knows it.
    The EULA also seeks to deny a number of accepted fair-use rights, such as
    doctrine of first-sale and creation of derivative works. This lawsuit will
    likely reach SCOTUS, and it will be a seminal case in defining the limits
    (if any) on what the media cartels can do to protect their products. It's
    the Betamax of the digital age.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Nov 24, 2005
    #8
  9. In article <>,
    says...
    > Sony cannot be held liable for breaking your computer?
    > That's a crock, and any sane person knows it.
    >


    Do you know of any case where a software vendor was successfully
    prosecuted or lost a litigation where their code broke somebody's
    system?
    I have never heard or read of such.

    I've actually had my first dvd drive physically broken by Sierra copy
    protection (it repeatedly hammered the head against the stops and the
    drive was never the same afterwards - the tracking was off); one of the
    reasons why copy protection is a bit of a red cloth for me. I know that
    the same or similar thing(s) happened to others with the same title
    (Zeus) but I never heard of anyone successfully taking Sierra to court
    over it.
    Same where freshly pressed CDs turned out to have virii on them. Big
    embarrasment but that's where it stopped, a.f.a.i.k.

    Personally I am very much in favour of the idea that vendors should be
    held responsible for what they sell over the counter.

    -P.

    --
    =========================================
    firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
     
    Peter Huebner, Nov 24, 2005
    #9
  10. In article <>, y
    says...
    > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20051121215116613
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing


    Thanks for that link -
    I'll be wearing a big grin on my face for the rest of the day.

    About the only thing that would please me more would be GW Bush and Tony
    Blair getting put on the chair for mass murder and international
    terrorism.

    -P.


    --
    =========================================
    firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
     
    Peter Huebner, Nov 24, 2005
    #10
  11. On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:17:30 +1300, someone purporting to be Peter Huebner
    didst scrawl:

    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >> Sony cannot be held liable for breaking your computer?
    >> That's a crock, and any sane person knows it.
    >>
    >>

    > Do you know of any case where a software vendor was successfully
    > prosecuted or lost a litigation where their code broke somebody's system?
    > I have never heard or read of such.
    >

    *SNIP*

    I don't think such a lawsuit has ever been brought.
    This is also different from a "Their software fucked up and fucked up my
    computer" suit, in that their software was installed illicitly, cannot be
    removed without serious risk to the stability and security of the victim's
    computer, and behaves like software that is illegal in a number of
    jurisdictions. It's not simply about a product installed knowingly that is
    actually crap.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Nov 24, 2005
    #11
  12. thing2

    Gordon Guest

    On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 14:17:30 +1300, Peter Huebner wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >> Sony cannot be held liable for breaking your computer?
    >> That's a crock, and any sane person knows it.
    >>

    >
    > Do you know of any case where a software vendor was successfully
    > prosecuted or lost a litigation where their code broke somebody's
    > system?
    > I have never heard or read of such.


    Hang about, the way things are going you just might.
     
    Gordon, Nov 24, 2005
    #12
  13. thing2

    shannon Guest

    Matthew Poole wrote:
    > On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:17:30 +1300, someone purporting to be Peter Huebner
    > didst scrawl:
    >
    >> In article <>,
    >> says...
    >>> Sony cannot be held liable for breaking your computer?
    >>> That's a crock, and any sane person knows it.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Do you know of any case where a software vendor was successfully
    >> prosecuted or lost a litigation where their code broke somebody's system?
    >> I have never heard or read of such.
    >>

    > *SNIP*
    >
    > I don't think such a lawsuit has ever been brought.
    > This is also different from a "Their software fucked up and fucked up my
    > computer" suit, in that their software was installed illicitly, cannot be
    > removed without serious risk to the stability and security of the victim's
    > computer, and behaves like software that is illegal in a number of
    > jurisdictions. It's not simply about a product installed knowingly that is
    > actually crap.
    >


    This would be the relevant legislation in the US


    http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/1030_new.html
     
    shannon, Nov 24, 2005
    #13
  14. thing2

    steve Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:

    > I play my CDs all over the place, in the car, in the DVD/CD player in the
    > bedroom but mainly in the PC hooked up to the stereo in the living room.
    > If I don't make a copy an put the original away it risks damage,
    > especially in the car, it gets hot in there.


    My daughter's "Good Charlotte" CD died yesterday....too scratched.

    But it was a good thing we had ripped all the songs off it a couple of
    months ago - using 'grip', on Linux.

    They play as well as they ever did.

    :)
     
    steve, Nov 24, 2005
    #14
  15. thing2

    Robert Cooze Guest

    steve wrote:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I play my CDs all over the place, in the car, in the DVD/CD player in the
    >>bedroom but mainly in the PC hooked up to the stereo in the living room.
    >>If I don't make a copy an put the original away it risks damage,
    >>especially in the car, it gets hot in there.

    >
    >
    > My daughter's "Good Charlotte" CD died yesterday....too scratched.
    >
    > But it was a good thing we had ripped all the songs off it a couple of
    > months ago - using 'grip', on Linux.
    >
    > They play as well as they ever did.
    >
    > :)
    >
    >

    Many People who see my cd and Lp collection comment on the condition!
    All are neer mint. All have been played a lot! but I look after them.
    This was before I could ever make backups. It was only a year or three
    ago I even needed to make copies As I had no cd player in a car!

    Many of my frends and famerly have cd's with holes in the reflective
    medium of the pressed cd! I did use the pc to make a copy of a very
    badly deterioaterd cd. I was grumbling to the catch frase perfict sound
    forever! the truth and lie of the begining of the cd erea.


    --
    http://cooze.co.nz home of the RecyclerMan aka Robert Cooze

    / __/ / / / / /__ / / ___/ / __/ / / / |/ / /__ /
    / / / /_/ / / /_/ / _-' / __/ / / / /_/ / / /| / _-'
    ___\ ____/ ____/ /___/ /____/ /_/ ___\ ____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /___/
     
    Robert Cooze, Nov 24, 2005
    #15
  16. thing2

    shannon Guest

    steve wrote:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >
    >> I play my CDs all over the place, in the car, in the DVD/CD player in the
    >> bedroom but mainly in the PC hooked up to the stereo in the living room.
    >> If I don't make a copy an put the original away it risks damage,
    >> especially in the car, it gets hot in there.

    >
    > My daughter's "Good Charlotte" CD died yesterday....too scratched.
    >
    > But it was a good thing we had ripped all the songs off it a couple of
    > months ago - using 'grip', on Linux.
    >
    > They play as well as they ever did.
    >
    > :)
    >
    >

    The mp3 files would have been exactly the same if you had ripped it on
    Windows, but good on you for squeezing linux in where its completely
    irrelevant
     
    shannon, Nov 24, 2005
    #16
  17. thing2

    Jim Guest

    Since I agree with your assessment of Mezzanine, and havent listened for a
    while, and rarely do on the PC, I took the opportunity to have a go for
    myself :) and it played fine. Then read the post below - guess what, I too
    use Real Player (v10). So maybe there you go - but is it possible you just
    have a dud pressing? My CD manufactured by EMI/Virgin, doesnt seem to be a
    date any where.
    --
    Jim


    "Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:59:55 +1300, someone purporting to be ~misfit~
    > didst scrawl:
    >
    >> thing2 wrote:

    > *SNIP*
    >> I solved the problem by making an image of it with CloneCD, ripping it as
    >> a 'protected game CD', then writing from the image as a 'music CD'. It
    >> finally worked. I can now put the original away before it gets scratched
    >> too much.
    >>

    > *SNIP*
    >
    > I found, much to my amusement, that RealPlayer (the free edition) will
    > happily rip copy-protected music CDs to MP3 (or AAC, or WMA, or WAV).
    > This was a recently-released EMI CD, so I assume the copy protection on it
    > was reasonably up-to-date. RealPlayer didn't blink.
    >
    > --
    > Matthew Poole
    > "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
    >
     
    Jim, Nov 25, 2005
    #17
  18. thing2

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Jim wrote:
    > Since I agree with your assessment of Mezzanine, and havent listened
    > for a while, and rarely do on the PC, I took the opportunity to have
    > a go for myself :) and it played fine. Then read the post below -
    > guess what, I too use Real Player (v10). So maybe there you go - but
    > is it possible you just have a dud pressing? My CD manufactured by
    > EMI/Virgin, doesnt seem to be a date any where.


    Mine doesn't have a date on it either, I just remember getting it the week
    it was released, in '98. (Actually, there's a small chance it's a later
    'pressing', not sure if I gave away my original to this rather nice young
    lady I once knew.....) Mine is manufactured by EMI Swindon, Australia. Just
    on orange CD with some very small writing around the edge about copyright
    etc. Around the clear bit in the middle it says "Cira records ltd. Made in
    Australia" and there is a bloody small Virgin records logo, a copyright
    symbol, a compact disc symbol (like you see on the front of players/drives,
    the words 'Compact Disc' one above the other) and a fourth logo that I can't
    make out. Could be a copy protection logo? (Did I say this stuff is really
    tiny? For a long time I thought it was just a plain orange disc).

    If you look at the data area it's plain to see that the first 5% or so of it
    looks quite different to the rest of the surface. It's like a very long
    lead-in, something I've not seen on a pressed CD before. From what I can
    tell, from trying to read it various ways, it's a bunch of errors that a
    stand-alone CD player would just ignore. Exact Audio Copy spent ages trying
    to read it, saying at one stage it was going to take over a day to rip it,
    before finally giving up at about 3% done. Copying it using CloneCD (on the
    fly, 4 X, two drives) as an audio CD gave a coaster after a couple minutes.
    I'm pretty sure it's copy protection, it sounds great on the stereo, played
    through a Panasonic DVD/CD player and a seperate amp and Jamo speakers /
    Jamo passive sub. I don't think it's a dud pressing.
    --
    ~misfit~

    > "Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    >> On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:59:55 +1300, someone purporting to be ~misfit~
    >> didst scrawl:
    >>
    >>> thing2 wrote:

    >> *SNIP*
    >>> I solved the problem by making an image of it with CloneCD, ripping
    >>> it as a 'protected game CD', then writing from the image as a
    >>> 'music CD'. It finally worked. I can now put the original away
    >>> before it gets scratched too much.
    >>>

    >> *SNIP*
    >>
    >> I found, much to my amusement, that RealPlayer (the free edition)
    >> will happily rip copy-protected music CDs to MP3 (or AAC, or WMA, or
    >> WAV). This was a recently-released EMI CD, so I assume the copy
    >> protection on it was reasonably up-to-date. RealPlayer didn't blink.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Matthew Poole
    >> "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    ~misfit~, Nov 25, 2005
    #18
  19. thing2

    shannon Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Jim wrote:
    >> Since I agree with your assessment of Mezzanine, and havent listened
    >> for a while, and rarely do on the PC, I took the opportunity to have
    >> a go for myself :) and it played fine. Then read the post below -
    >> guess what, I too use Real Player (v10). So maybe there you go - but
    >> is it possible you just have a dud pressing? My CD manufactured by
    >> EMI/Virgin, doesnt seem to be a date any where.

    >
    > Mine doesn't have a date on it either, I just remember getting it the week
    > it was released, in '98. (Actually, there's a small chance it's a later
    > 'pressing', not sure if I gave away my original to this rather nice young
    > lady I once knew.....) Mine is manufactured by EMI Swindon, Australia. Just
    > on orange CD with some very small writing around the edge about copyright
    > etc. Around the clear bit in the middle it says "Cira records ltd. Made in
    > Australia" and there is a bloody small Virgin records logo, a copyright
    > symbol, a compact disc symbol (like you see on the front of players/drives,
    > the words 'Compact Disc' one above the other) and a fourth logo that I can't
    > make out. Could be a copy protection logo? (Did I say this stuff is really
    > tiny? For a long time I thought it was just a plain orange disc).
    >
    > If you look at the data area it's plain to see that the first 5% or so of it
    > looks quite different to the rest of the surface. It's like a very long
    > lead-in, something I've not seen on a pressed CD before. From what I can
    > tell, from trying to read it various ways, it's a bunch of errors that a
    > stand-alone CD player would just ignore. Exact Audio Copy spent ages trying
    > to read it, saying at one stage it was going to take over a day to rip it,
    > before finally giving up at about 3% done. Copying it using CloneCD (on the
    > fly, 4 X, two drives) as an audio CD gave a coaster after a couple minutes.
    > I'm pretty sure it's copy protection, it sounds great on the stereo, played
    > through a Panasonic DVD/CD player and a seperate amp and Jamo speakers /
    > Jamo passive sub. I don't think it's a dud pressing.


    My copy of Mezzanine ripped just fine with CDex and lame to 256k mp3.
    The outside 5% does look different, but I think it is just unwritten.
    Are you aware that CDs read from the centre outwards ?
    Thats why misreads are usually on the later tracks.
    The only CD I recall ripping with copy protection was Diamonds on the
    Inside by Ben Harper.
    You just insert it with the shift key depressed
     
    shannon, Nov 25, 2005
    #19
  20. thing2

    ~misfit~ Guest

    shannon wrote:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> Jim wrote:
    >>> Since I agree with your assessment of Mezzanine, and havent listened
    >>> for a while, and rarely do on the PC, I took the opportunity to have
    >>> a go for myself :) and it played fine. Then read the post below -
    >>> guess what, I too use Real Player (v10). So maybe there you go - but
    >>> is it possible you just have a dud pressing? My CD manufactured by
    >>> EMI/Virgin, doesnt seem to be a date any where.

    >>
    >> Mine doesn't have a date on it either, I just remember getting it
    >> the week it was released, in '98. (Actually, there's a small chance
    >> it's a later 'pressing', not sure if I gave away my original to this
    >> rather nice young lady I once knew.....) Mine is manufactured by
    >> EMI Swindon, Australia. Just on orange CD with some very small
    >> writing around the edge about copyright etc. Around the clear bit in
    >> the middle it says "Cira records ltd. Made in Australia" and there
    >> is a bloody small Virgin records logo, a copyright symbol, a compact
    >> disc symbol (like you see on the front of players/drives, the words
    >> 'Compact Disc' one above the other) and a fourth logo that I can't
    >> make out. Could be a copy protection logo? (Did I say this stuff is
    >> really tiny? For a long time I thought it was just a plain orange
    >> disc). If you look at the data area it's plain to see that the first 5%
    >> or
    >> so of it looks quite different to the rest of the surface. It's like
    >> a very long lead-in, something I've not seen on a pressed CD before.
    >> From what I can tell, from trying to read it various ways, it's a
    >> bunch of errors that a stand-alone CD player would just ignore.
    >> Exact Audio Copy spent ages trying to read it, saying at one stage
    >> it was going to take over a day to rip it, before finally giving up
    >> at about 3% done. Copying it using CloneCD (on the fly, 4 X, two
    >> drives) as an audio CD gave a coaster after a couple minutes. I'm
    >> pretty sure it's copy protection, it sounds great on the stereo,
    >> played through a Panasonic DVD/CD player and a seperate amp and Jamo
    >> speakers / Jamo passive sub. I don't think it's a dud pressing.

    >
    > My copy of Mezzanine ripped just fine with CDex and lame to 256k mp3.
    > The outside 5% does look different, but I think it is just unwritten.
    > Are you aware that CDs read from the centre outwards ?


    Yes. And the 'lead-in' I was refering to is on the inside of the CD. The
    outside looks different too, where the disk isn't written to.

    > Thats why misreads are usually on the later tracks.
    > The only CD I recall ripping with copy protection was Diamonds on the
    > Inside by Ben Harper.
    > You just insert it with the shift key depressed


    OK, thanks for your input. Your copy of Mezzanine doesn't have this
    different looking area in the centre part / beginning of the data area?

    Cheers,
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Nov 26, 2005
    #20
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    -=rjh=-, Feb 8, 2005, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    11
    Views:
    521
    ~misfit~
    Feb 9, 2005
  5. Penguin Man
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    331
    Penguin Man
    Aug 21, 2010
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