some cpu cooler questions

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by joaquino, Dec 12, 2003.

  1. joaquino

    joaquino Guest

    Hi, just read the previous cooler question and was wondering what temp I
    should have for my cpu an athlon xp 2200 / 133 mhz. pc health status in
    BIOS reads 55C with fan speed +/- 4800 rpm. I have an xDream and I use
    arctic silver3. Is this temp within the normal idle range? How accurate
    are the temp sensors on mobo cpu sockets? And, is there a way to monitor
    cpu temp while not in BIOS? Seems like most people who've left reviews for
    hsf's on newegg get temps in the mid 40's with comparable fans and are
    somehow able to monitor cpu temp under load, am I missing something here?
    thanks for any information...
    joaquino, Dec 12, 2003
    #1
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  2. joaquino

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    "joaquino" <> wrote in news:a0sCb.809$lj1.394
    @newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:

    > somehow able to monitor cpu temp under load,


    google for:
    Motherboard Monitor

    --
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
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    DeMoN LaG, Dec 13, 2003
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  3. joaquino

    Spajky Guest

    On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 23:17:26 GMT, "joaquino"
    <> wrote:

    >Hi, just read the previous cooler question and was wondering what temp I
    >should have for my cpu an athlon xp 2200 / 133 mhz. pc health status in
    >BIOS reads 55C with fan speed +/- 4800 rpm. I have an xDream and I use
    >arctic silver3. Is this temp within the normal idle range?


    Yes ...

    >How accurate
    >are the temp sensors on mobo cpu sockets?


    not accurate ...

    >And, is there a way to monitor
    >cpu temp while not in BIOS? Seems like most people who've left reviews for
    >hsf's on newegg get temps in the mid 40's with comparable fans and are
    >somehow able to monitor cpu temp under load, am I missing something here?


    their temperatures are revealed too low IMHO
    You can check my site (under different subpages) about measuring CPU
    real core temperatures ...

    -- Regards, SPAJKY
    & visit site - http://www.spajky.vze.com
    Celly-III OC-ed,"Tualatin on BX-Slot1-MoBo!"
    E-mail AntiSpam: remove ##
    Spajky, Dec 13, 2003
    #3
  4. joaquino

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    Spajky <Spajky##@volja.net> wrote in
    news::

    > their temperatures are revealed too low IMHO
    > You can check my site (under different subpages) about measuring CPU
    > real core temperatures ...
    >


    Are you implying my Barton 2500+ running at 42C idle (read from thermal
    diode inside the chip) is not accurate?

    --
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
    DeMoN LaG, Dec 13, 2003
    #4
  5. joaquino

    Spajky Guest

    On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:17:13 -0000, DeMoN LaG <n@a> wrote:

    >Spajky <Spajky##@volja.net> wrote in
    >news::
    >
    >> their temperatures are revealed too low IMHO
    >> You can check my site (under different subpages) about measuring CPU
    >> real core temperatures ...
    >>

    >
    >Are you implying my Barton 2500+ running at 42C idle (read from thermal
    >diode inside the chip) is not accurate?


    no, it can not be if you are not using water cooling (or living in
    Alaska); not properly configured MBM program or programmed HWmon chip
    from Bios (miscalibration); mine Tuallie has from Cpu diode right now
    @50°C - calibrated measurment!
    ... but mine CPU has only a half of thermal dissipation than
    yours, so your temperature would be at least 5°C higher than mine:
    other my temps: room 19°C, Cpu socket 38°C, Cpu HS 48°C etc....
    .... go figure it... :)

    -- Regards, SPAJKY
    & visit site - http://www.spajky.vze.com
    Celly-III OC-ed,"Tualatin on BX-Slot1-MoBo!"
    E-mail AntiSpam: remove ##
    Spajky, Dec 16, 2003
    #5
  6. joaquino

    Plato Guest

    Spajky wrote:
    >
    > @50°C - calibrated measurment!
    > 5°C higher than mine:: room 19°C, Cpu socket 38°C, Cpu HS 48°C etc....


    overheating eh?



    --
    http://www.bootdisk.com/
    Plato, Dec 16, 2003
    #6
  7. joaquino

    Spajky Guest

    On 16 Dec 2003 03:14:17 -0600, Plato <|@|.|> wrote:

    >Spajky wrote:
    >>
    >> @50°C - calibrated measurment!
    >> 5°C higher than mine:: room 19°C, Cpu socket 38°C, Cpu HS 48°C etc....

    >
    >overheating eh?


    no, REAL CPU on die diode measurement! :)))
    yeah, the standard probe says 38 ...
    all fans on 7V case closed, the heatsink temp is approx.1°C lower at
    the bottom of it closest to IHS than core from Cpu diode @ idle.
    (see my site about that... & before mounting a gadget inside & back
    closing case, I have to do calibration of it again...)


    -- Regards, SPAJKY
    & visit site - http://www.spajky.vze.com
    Celly-III OC-ed,"Tualatin on BX-Slot1-MoBo!"
    E-mail AntiSpam: remove ##
    Spajky, Dec 16, 2003
    #7
  8. joaquino

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    Spajky <Spajky##@volja.net> wrote in
    news::

    > no, it can not be if you are not using water cooling (or living in
    > Alaska); not properly configured MBM program or programmed HWmon chip
    > from Bios (miscalibration); mine Tuallie has from Cpu diode right now
    > @50¶øC - calibrated measurment!
    >


    I do not use Motherboard Monitor. My Barton has a thermal diode in the CPU
    die itself, and the reading from it says 42C when it is not in use. My
    cooling is a FOP38 with arctic silver as a thermal compound. Yes, a chip
    can idle at 42C without watercooling. On top of idling at 42C, it's
    perfectly possible for the chip to never break 60C under full load, without
    watercooling.
    DeMoN LaG, Dec 16, 2003
    #8
  9. joaquino

    Spajky Guest

    On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:33:31 -0000, DeMoN LaG <n@a> wrote:

    >Spajky <Spajky##@volja.net> wrote in
    >news::
    >
    >> no, it can not be if you are not using water cooling (or living in
    >> Alaska);


    >I do not use Motherboard Monitor. My Barton has a thermal diode in the CPU
    >die itself, and the reading from it says 42C when it is not in use. My
    >cooling is a FOP38 with arctic silver as a thermal compound. Yes, a chip
    >can idle at 42C without watercooling. On top of idling at 42C, it's
    >perfectly possible for the chip to never break 60C under full load, without
    >watercooling.


    looks like your HWmon chip is not programmed /calibrated/ properly,
    but I must say that you have a hell-of-a good HSF :) , but anyway
    read this:
    http://freeweb.siol.net/jerman55/HP/CalibAd.htm

    -- Regards, SPAJKY
    & visit site - http://www.spajky.vze.com
    Celly-III OC-ed,"Tualatin on BX-Slot1-MoBo!"
    E-mail AntiSpam: remove ##
    Spajky, Dec 17, 2003
    #9
  10. joaquino

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    Spajky <Spajky##@volja.net> wrote in
    news::

    > looks like your HWmon chip is not programmed /calibrated/ properly,
    > but I must say that you have a hell-of-a good HSF :) , but anyway
    > read this:


    I highly doubt that is the case. I have run this CPU in 2 completely
    different motherboards with different manufacturers and different
    chipsets, using different programs and in all cases I get the same temp
    readings. I don't understand why you think that a Barton 2500+ would run
    idle at higher than 42C with a 7500 RPM HSF and high quality thermal
    compound. The web page you cite lists nothing of relavence here. If
    anything, you are making claims that motherboard manufacturers are
    intentionally falsifying diode readings for their own purposes. Other
    than being completely unproven, it would also probably border on illegal.

    Following your test instructions:
    PC Boots after night of being off, CPU = ~27C (during POST), Ambient = ~
    25C, Mobo = ~25C

    Boot into windows, log in, load Asus Probe or Motherboard Monitor (both
    show same readings):
    CPU = ~40C, Ambient = ~25C, Mobo = ~30C

    Run Sandra CPU benchmark suite for 10 minutes or so:
    CPU = ~53C, Ambient = ~25C, Mobo = ~34C


    At this point, if the machine idles the temp will stay between 49C and
    50C, as 50C is the cutoff point for my system to drop the fans from 7500
    RPM and 3500 RPM for the two case fans to 3200RPM for the CPU and 2000RPM
    for the case fans.

    Now, unless you are going to provide facts to back up your acusations
    that motherboard makers are intentionally falsifying the temperature
    readings, with something more conclusive than:
    "
    It is just common sense & my curiosity that lead me to made such an
    experiment from which results can be seen on this sites about MINE temps
    in different conditions!

    Some "consumer" boards actually do show the temps correctly, but they are
    quite rare IMHO ... & mine temps are a bit higher than they should be,
    because I don`t wanna have an airplane (or hovercraft ) infront of my
    nose..
    "

    If you do not have facts, figures, spec sheets, or anything that proves
    anything to back up your statements, I'd highly suggest you don't go
    preaching to people that Epox and Asus and Abit have all been lying to me
    and other Athlon XP users about our CPU temps.

    And my common sense and curiousity tell me this:
    If my CPU was really not running at 42C idle and 53C load, that would
    mean my HSF would be attempting to cool something that was over 122F. If
    it were cooling something that got to such a temp, I would think the HSF
    would get slightly warmer to the touch than it currently gets.

    Where's your proof now?

    --
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
    DeMoN LaG, Dec 17, 2003
    #10
  11. joaquino

    Spajky Guest

    On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 06:09:43 -0000, DeMoN LaG <n@a> wrote:

    >Spajky <Spajky##@volja.net> wrote in
    >news::
    >
    >> looks like your HWmon chip is not programmed /calibrated/ properly,
    >> but I must say that you have a hell-of-a good HSF :) , but anyway
    >> read this:

    >
    >I highly doubt that is the case. I have run this CPU in 2 completely
    >different motherboards with different manufacturers and different
    >chipsets, using different programs and in all cases I get the same temp
    >readings. I don't understand why you think that a Barton 2500+ would run
    >idle at higher than 42C with a 7500 RPM HSF


    WOW, do you have your machine "glued" to the floor that does not lifts
    or fly away? :))) Hovercraft!

    >and high quality thermal
    >compound. The web page you cite lists nothing of relavence here. If
    >anything, you are making claims that motherboard manufacturers are
    >intentionally falsifying diode readings for their own purposes. Other
    >than being completely unproven, it would also probably border on illegal.


    Boh....

    >Following your test instructions:
    >PC Boots after night of being off, CPU = ~27C (during POST), Ambient = ~
    >25C, Mobo = ~25C


    IMHO, not reading from Bartons on die diode (temps revealed too low),
    temps from onDie are approx. 10°C higher than those from socket sensor

    >Boot into windows, log in, load Asus Probe or Motherboard Monitor (both
    >show same readings):
    >CPU = ~40C, Ambient = ~25C, Mobo = ~30C
    >
    >Run Sandra CPU benchmark suite for 10 minutes or so:
    >CPU = ~53C, Ambient = ~25C, Mobo = ~34C


    similar to mine revealed NOT from on die, but from original sensors ..

    >At this point, if the machine idles the temp will stay between 49C and
    >50C, as 50C is the cutoff point for my system to drop the fans from 7500
    >RPM and 3500 RPM for the two case fans to 3200RPM for the CPU and 2000RPM
    >for the case fans.


    >Now, unless you are going to provide facts to back up ....


    >If you do not have facts, figures, spec sheets, or anything that proves
    >anything to back up your statements, I'd highly suggest you don't go
    >preaching to people that Epox and Asus and Abit have all been lying to me
    >and other Athlon XP users about our CPU temps.
    >
    >And my common sense and curiousity tell me this:
    >If my CPU was really not running at 42C idle and 53C load, that would
    >mean my HSF would be attempting to cool something that was over 122F. If
    >it were cooling something that got to such a temp, I would think the HSF
    >would get slightly warmer to the touch than it currently gets.


    @60°C HS temp (onDie diode is higher!), you can touch it only fast not
    to get burned, @55°C you can touch it w/o get burned, @50°C, you can
    keep it in your hand (because of individual sensitivity of the skin,
    this temps may vary a bit): I also do not have a stock HSF ...

    >Where's your proof now?


    some other stuff to read:
    http://freeweb.siol.net/jerman55/HP/pcBench.htm
    (second half of the page)
    & finally:
    http://freeweb.siol.net/jerman55/HP/gadget1.htm

    & BTW, those temps claimed in datasheets for CPUs (max. operating
    temp) is the one measured from the bottom of the HSF closest to core
    (not from onDie diode!) for long term full load guaranteed from the
    manufacturers! CPU won´t melt if the temperature does not "runaway"
    after 125°C (AMD suggest for MoBo manufacturers to implement from
    onDie diode immediate switch off the sistem, if that temp reaches max.
    that value of the core to prevent the damage of it ...

    if you are brave in Electronics, make that gadget I did & do
    experiments by yourself or this:
    http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/24228.pdf
    you would not be asking stuff anymore :))
    (this last made some "waterCooling guru" & a guy in my country for his
    needs to test his excelent waterblocks (they were reviewed also on
    some known australian web site), & when I gave him my schematics, he
    got practically same results as before ...

    I am a curious guy & I like to experimet & I do not believe everything
    whats written on the web, manuals or in datasheets even ...

    this conversation reminds me about one I had about running Tuallies on
    BX boards more than 2y ago when I claimed after studying a bit some
    papers that it can be done, even if everybody was trying to convince
    me that I am wrong ... :))) ....




    -- Regards, SPAJKY
    & visit site - http://www.spajky.vze.com
    Celly-III OC-ed,"Tualatin on BX-Slot1-MoBo!"
    E-mail AntiSpam: remove ##
    Spajky, Dec 17, 2003
    #11
  12. joaquino

    DeMoN LaG Guest

    Spajky <Spajky##@volja.net> wrote in
    news::

    > this conversation reminds me about one I had about running Tuallies on
    > BX boards more than 2y ago when I claimed after studying a bit some
    > papers that it can be done, even if everybody was trying to convince
    > me that I am wrong ... :))) ....
    >


    You are still blowing smoke out your ass here. I have two probes I can
    monitor with MBM5. I have the CPU, and CPU DIODE. The CPU is lower than
    the diode. Again, give proof.

    --
    AIM: FrznFoodClerk
    email: de_on-lag@co_cast.net (_ = m)
    website: under construction
    Need a technician in the south Jersey area?
    email/IM for rates/services
    DeMoN LaG, Dec 17, 2003
    #12
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