So thing are supposed to be looking up..??????

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Frank Williams, Mar 26, 2010.

  1. I just don't think so.

    The local Newbolds shop is closing down and a main sales man at Harvey
    Normans had to do some moon lighting to get a decent wage.


    Also the local TV repair shop is also closing down.



    National is just full of it.
    Frank Williams, Mar 26, 2010
    #1
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  2. Frank Williams

    pystol Guest

    On Mar 26, 6:01 pm, Frank Williams <> wrote:
    > I just don't think so.
    >
    > The local Newbolds shop is closing down and a  main sales man at Harvey
    > Normans had to do some moon lighting to get a decent wage.
    >
    > Also the local TV repair shop is also closing down.
    >
    > National is just full of it.


    I was John Key's fan on Facebook for about 5 hours. That's all the
    bullshit I could stand.
    pystol, Mar 26, 2010
    #2
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  3. Frank Williams

    hellicopter Guest

    Frank Williams wrote:

    >
    >
    > I just don't think so.
    >
    > The local Newbolds shop is closing down and a main sales man at Harvey
    > Normans had to do some moon lighting to get a decent wage.
    >
    >
    > Also the local TV repair shop is also closing down.
    >
    >
    >
    > National is just full of it.


    Debt.

    People were told by the rightwing to borrow, the economy works
    if you borrow and here is their mates number to call
    to get a loan.

    Then they take the debt to the financial market, leverage
    off the value to go out and lend more money.

    Eventually the amount of call of future value, money, could
    never be paid off. All those people could not earn enough
    to pay their mortgages, collectively there weren't enough
    money earning opportunities. So the credit markets seized
    up.

    Unless and until governments (and private debt) can create
    jobs, cause inflation, or default on the debt, most likely
    all of three to some degree. There will be stagnation
    where companies know they are selling at a loss, because
    eventually the value of the money must increase (well
    unless they default and go out of business). So at the
    moment those companies doing business are subsidizing
    companies that should be shut up and the debts defaulted on.

    Just like Japan, where for years banks would give
    zero interest loans to businesses.

    But if that wasn't enough. Petrol will immediate jump
    to over $100 a barrel if the economy starts up again.
    How does a business know it can even stay in business
    when the future isn't known. If you have a business
    next to a bus station selling vegies then you are probably
    ok, even laughing, but if you are on the outskirts selling
    furniture, fools on you. But you'll have no numbers to
    know which way.

    Then there is the aging crisis, which NZ is on the extreme
    end of, with so many retirees. We need to let people
    work for longer, but this means when they are younger they
    need more time off, because they won't have a retirement,
    or one that is going to much worth having.

    Third is the environment, we can't keep turning top
    soil into food and then burying it.

    So we need a new economy, and if you look at Japan
    they've been in their depression for ten years now.
    hellicopter, Mar 26, 2010
    #3
  4. Frank Williams

    Your Name Guest

    "Frank Williams" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > ... a main sales man at Harvey Normans had to do some
    > moon lighting to get a decent wage.


    Presumably that means he's a commision-based salesman, in which case he
    should get a proper job. Commission-based salesman are always just greedy,
    selfish idiots simply trying to shove you into the most expensive thing they
    can con you into buying, and usually know nothing about what they're selling
    because one week they're selling shoes, the next computer, the next cars,
    .... There's a good reason people hate them, especially in expensive items
    like real estate and car sales.
    Your Name, Mar 26, 2010
    #4
  5. Frank Williams

    Your Name Guest

    In article <4bad26ff$>, vitw <> wrote:

    > On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:44:13 +1200, Your Name wrote:
    >
    > > Presumably that means he's a commision-based salesman, in which case he
    > > should get a proper job. Commission-based salesman are always just
    > > greedy, selfish idiots simply trying to shove you into the most
    > > expensive thing they can con you into buying, and usually know nothing
    > > about what they're selling because one week they're selling shoes, the
    > > next computer, the next cars, ... There's a good reason people hate
    > > them, especially in expensive items like real estate and car sales.

    >
    > Would be interesting if commission-only employment were outlawed, so that
    > employers had to pay at least a minimum wage.


    It should definitely be outlawed, but of course it won't be because greedy
    sales "big businesses" would then have to pay their staff for working even
    if they don't sell anything (like any normal business!), and of course
    that would cut into greedy management pay packets.
    Your Name, Mar 26, 2010
    #5
  6. Frank Williams

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Your Name wrote:
    > "Frank Williams" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>
    >> ... a main sales man at Harvey Normans had to do some
    >> moon lighting to get a decent wage.

    >
    > Presumably that means he's a commision-based salesman, in which case
    > he should get a proper job. Commission-based salesman are always just
    > greedy, selfish idiots simply trying to shove you into the most
    > expensive thing they can con you into buying, and usually know
    > nothing about what they're selling because one week they're selling
    > shoes, the next computer, the next cars, ... There's a good reason
    > people hate them, especially in expensive items like real estate and
    > car sales.


    Massive generalisation there. So there is no colour in your world huh?
    Everything is black and white.

    Perhaps this guy isn't like the commision-based salesmen whom you obviously
    hate (and assume that 'people' also hate them). Could that be why he's
    having to supplement his income by 'doing some moonlighting'? Perhaps he has
    some integrity?

    I think that it's a bit off that you basically call this guy an arsehole and
    you know nothing about him. Bigoted much?

    Lazy thinking (or perhaps no thinking) is so common these days. Tell us some
    things about yourself, that we may judge you by the same standards that you
    use to judge others.
    --
    Shaun.

    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day...
    ~misfit~, Mar 27, 2010
    #6
  7. Frank Williams

    peterwn Guest

    On Mar 27, 11:28 am, vitw <> wrote:
    > On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:44:13 +1200, Your Name wrote:
    > > Presumably that means he's a commision-based salesman, in which case he
    > > should get a proper job. Commission-based salesman are always just
    > > greedy, selfish idiots simply trying to shove you into the most
    > > expensive thing they can con you into buying, and usually know nothing
    > > about what they're selling because one week they're selling shoes, the
    > > next computer, the next cars, ... There's a good reason people hate
    > > them, especially in expensive items like real estate and car sales.

    >
    > Would be interesting if commission-only employment were outlawed, so that
    > employers had to pay at least a minimum wage.


    There was an employment law case over this against Harvey Norman.
    Electronics / whiteware is run fairly separately from furniture. The
    head of the whiteware / electronics department (if not the furniture
    department too), is not only a 'commission salesperson' but is
    configured as a small business using a company and a trust. It is set
    up to Harvey Norman's template and Harvey Norman's back office
    provides the accountancy service for it. The manager is in effect
    'employed at will' (the holy grail of Business Round Table etc) and a
    mediocre performing manager was forcibly transferred to another branch
    to be under closer supervision and unsuccessfully took Harvey Norman
    to the employment court.

    Commission only employment is I think effectively outlawed, but in the
    simplest case this could be overcome by paying the minimum wage for a
    40 hour week with commissions on top.

    Restrictions on such arrangements while protecting potentially
    vulnerable employees would be an unfair restriction on people who
    consider they have what it takes to earn more through business or free
    lance arrangements. This would apply to small businesses,
    peofessionals, real estate salespeople, opera singers, owner-drivers,
    Harvey Norman managersetc. It is when things turn sour that such
    people then try and claim to be 'employees' and their claims will
    generally fail where many of the attributes of an 'employee' are
    missing or where it is tightly tied up legally (such as Harvey
    Norman). Harvey Norman had to adopt a more complex structure for NZ
    than they needed to in Australia. The one significant successful
    claim was against 'Three Foot Six Ltd' (the company Peter Jackson set
    up specifically to make 'Lord of the Rings'). This was probably
    successful because arrangements were probably based on Hollywood
    practice which would be in turn be based on Californian and USA law.
    peterwn, Mar 27, 2010
    #7
  8. Frank Williams

    grum Guest

    On 27/03/2010 6:00 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Somewhere on teh intarwebs Your Name wrote:
    >> "Frank Williams"<> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>>
    >>> ... a main sales man at Harvey Normans had to do some
    >>> moon lighting to get a decent wage.

    >>
    >> Presumably that means he's a commision-based salesman, in which case
    >> he should get a proper job. Commission-based salesman are always just
    >> greedy, selfish idiots simply trying to shove you into the most
    >> expensive thing they can con you into buying, and usually know
    >> nothing about what they're selling because one week they're selling
    >> shoes, the next computer, the next cars, ... There's a good reason
    >> people hate them, especially in expensive items like real estate and
    >> car sales.

    >
    > Massive generalisation there. So there is no colour in your world huh?
    > Everything is black and white.
    >
    > Perhaps this guy isn't like the commision-based salesmen whom you obviously
    > hate (and assume that 'people' also hate them). Could that be why he's
    > having to supplement his income by 'doing some moonlighting'? Perhaps he has
    > some integrity?
    >
    > I think that it's a bit off that you basically call this guy an arsehole and
    > you know nothing about him. Bigoted much?
    >
    > Lazy thinking (or perhaps no thinking) is so common these days. Tell us some
    > things about yourself, that we may judge you by the same standards that you
    > use to judge others.

    well said Shaun. Generalisation indeed, and one that a lot of people are
    guilty of.

    I worked as a salesman on commission for 8 years. I got paid a lot of
    money for doing a difficult job well. My company liked me because I made
    money for them. My customers liked me because I helped them achieve
    their aims (I was selling to businesses) and because I told the truth
    and looked after them well. In the end I gave it away because I had made
    a bundle of cash and didn't want to keep working that hard.

    As an aside, last time I sold a house I emplyed a commission based real
    estate agent who made me (and himself) a whole bucketload of money. I
    was very happy because he sold the house for much more than I would
    have, and with much less effort from me. As far as I know the people who
    bought it were/are happy too - they're still living in it years later.

    Selling would have to be one most the most misunderstood roles, mostly
    by small minded 'people' who have trouble grasping how things work in
    the real world.

    grum
    grum, Mar 29, 2010
    #8
  9. Frank Williams

    Your Name Guest

    "Allistar" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > vitw wrote:
    >
    > > On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:44:13 +1200, Your Name wrote:
    > >
    > >> Presumably that means he's a commision-based salesman, in which case he
    > >> should get a proper job. Commission-based salesman are always just
    > >> greedy, selfish idiots simply trying to shove you into the most
    > >> expensive thing they can con you into buying, and usually know nothing
    > >> about what they're selling because one week they're selling shoes, the
    > >> next computer, the next cars, ... There's a good reason people hate
    > >> them, especially in expensive items like real estate and car sales.

    > >
    > > Would be interesting if commission-only employment were outlawed, so

    that
    > > employers had to pay at least a minimum wage.

    >
    > You make it sound like people are forced into commission based roles. They
    > are not. They choose them voluntarily. Why outlaw it?


    People can voluntarily choose to buy a gun and shoot you ... should we stop
    outlawing that too?? ;-)
    Your Name, Mar 29, 2010
    #9
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