So, rj, what does this do to your rants about "communism"?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Matthew Poole, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20060320201540127

    "[T]he GPL encourages, rather than discourages, free competition and the
    distribution of computer operating systems, the benefits of which directly
    pass to consumers. These benefits include lower prices, better access and
    more innovation."

    That's from a judicial ruling on the validity of the GPL. Sounds mighty
    like the antithesis of communism, really, since it's encouraging those
    capitalist ideals of competition and innovation.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Mar 21, 2006
    #1
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  2. "Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20060320201540127
    >
    > "[T]he GPL encourages, rather than discourages, free competition and the
    > distribution of computer operating systems, the benefits of which directly
    > pass to consumers. These benefits include lower prices, better access and
    > more innovation."
    >
    > That's from a judicial ruling on the validity of the GPL. Sounds mighty
    > like the antithesis of communism, really, since it's encouraging those
    > capitalist ideals of competition and innovation.


    Do you seriously think Dunford will be convinced by a Groklaw article?
     
    persona non gratia, Mar 22, 2006
    #2
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  3. Matthew Poole

    Nik Coughlin Guest

    persona non gratia wrote:
    > "Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    >> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20060320201540127
    >>
    >> "[T]he GPL encourages, rather than discourages, free competition and
    >> the distribution of computer operating systems, the benefits of
    >> which directly pass to consumers. These benefits include lower
    >> prices, better access and more innovation."
    >>
    >> That's from a judicial ruling on the validity of the GPL. Sounds
    >> mighty like the antithesis of communism, really, since it's
    >> encouraging those capitalist ideals of competition and innovation.

    >
    > Do you seriously think Dunford will be convinced by a Groklaw article?


    Groklaw are a bunch of commies :p
     
    Nik Coughlin, Mar 22, 2006
    #3
  4. On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:30:46 +1200, someone purporting to be persona non
    gratia didst scrawl:

    > "Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...

    *SNIP*
    > Do you seriously think Dunford will be convinced by a Groklaw article?


    No, probably not. But one hopes that the PDF of a court order from Indiana
    (where they're not terribly sympathetic to communists) might carry a
    little weight.
    However, Nik may well be right, and we'll now be subjected to Dumbford
    calling Groklaw a bastion of communism and un-Americanism.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Mar 22, 2006
    #4
  5. Matthew Poole

    RJ Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20060320201540127
    >
    > "[T]he GPL encourages, rather than discourages, free competition and the
    > distribution of computer operating systems, the benefits of which directly
    > pass to consumers. These benefits include lower prices, better access and
    > more innovation."
    >
    > That's from a judicial ruling on the validity of the GPL. Sounds mighty
    > like the antithesis of communism, really, since it's encouraging those
    > capitalist ideals of competition and innovation.
    >


    Yet its inherently about attacking the right of free market businesses
    to make money out of their business activities

    The zealots of open source loudly proclaim that the commercial business
    model based on proprietary code is wrong and attack the licensing models
    and intellectual property rights at every turn

    Practically every open source zealot I have encountered is a lefty and
    its easy to see how open source would fulfill socialist goals
     
    RJ, Mar 23, 2006
    #5
  6. Matthew Poole

    RJ Guest

    In article <AL0Uf.7755$>, no-
    y says...
    > "Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    > > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20060320201540127
    > >
    > > "[T]he GPL encourages, rather than discourages, free competition and the
    > > distribution of computer operating systems, the benefits of which directly
    > > pass to consumers. These benefits include lower prices, better access and
    > > more innovation."
    > >
    > > That's from a judicial ruling on the validity of the GPL. Sounds mighty
    > > like the antithesis of communism, really, since it's encouraging those
    > > capitalist ideals of competition and innovation.

    >
    > Do you seriously think Dunford will be convinced by a Groklaw article?


    **** off cretin
     
    RJ, Mar 23, 2006
    #6
  7. On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:40:00 +1200, someone purporting to be RJ didst
    scrawl:

    *SNIP*
    >> That's from a judicial ruling on the validity of the GPL. Sounds mighty
    >> like the antithesis of communism, really, since it's encouraging those
    >> capitalist ideals of competition and innovation.

    >
    > Yet its inherently about attacking the right of free market businesses
    > to make money out of their business activities
    >

    Really? So you're disputing that IBM are making big money out of a GPL'd
    operating system?

    > The zealots of open source loudly proclaim that the commercial business
    > model based on proprietary code is wrong and attack the licensing models
    > and intellectual property rights at every turn
    >

    As is their right, no? Freedom of expression, etc etc.
    Their position is that software ought to be a commodity, with money
    charged for services associated with supporting and extending that
    software. They're certainly not against people making money, contrary to
    your suggestion.

    > Practically every open source zealot I have encountered is a lefty and
    > its easy to see how open source would fulfill socialist goals


    Open source also enables good governance. It forces openness on the civil
    service, which I would've thought would be quite amenable to your desire
    for small, accountable government? Or have I mis-read your intentions and
    you're actually fully against the state having to put the best interests
    of the citizenry above any and every other consideration (especially above
    pumping up the balance sheet of convicted foreign monopolists)?

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Mar 24, 2006
    #7
  8. Matthew Poole

    RJ Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:40:00 +1200, someone purporting to be RJ didst
    > scrawl:
    >
    > *SNIP*
    > >> That's from a judicial ruling on the validity of the GPL. Sounds mighty
    > >> like the antithesis of communism, really, since it's encouraging those
    > >> capitalist ideals of competition and innovation.

    > >
    > > Yet its inherently about attacking the right of free market businesses
    > > to make money out of their business activities
    > >

    > Really? So you're disputing that IBM are making big money out of a GPL'd
    > operating system?


    Its a means to an end for IBM
    THeir primary interes it making money by whatever means
    That includes selling punch cards machines to the Nazis to use in
    concentration camps
    Many big corporates are happy do do deals with commie governments
    The[politics is irrelevant for large corporations

    The only reason the commies FOsses arent flaming Ibm left right and
    centre is it makes linux look credible but as soon as Ibm made linux
    look useless then they would all be shooting Ibm down in flames just as
    they mercielessly attack every company that competes againsty Linux

    >
    > > The zealots of open source loudly proclaim that the commercial business
    > > model based on proprietary code is wrong and attack the licensing models
    > > and intellectual property rights at every turn
    > >

    > As is their right, no? Freedom of expression, etc etc.


    Says a lot about them and their beliefs

    > Their position is that software ought to be a commodity, with money
    > charged for services associated with supporting and extending that
    > software. They're certainly not against people making money, contrary to
    > your suggestion.


    They are opposed to peple making money from IP that's for sure

    >
    > > Practically every open source zealot I have encountered is a lefty and
    > > its easy to see how open source would fulfill socialist goals

    >
    > Open source also enables good governance. It forces openness on the civil
    > service, which I would've thought would be quite amenable to your desire
    > for small, accountable government?


    Totally twisted
    Open source is more about getting Microsoft or other big corpoirations
    out of selling their software to goverments

    > Or have I mis-read your intentions and
    > you're actually fully against the state having to put the best interests
    > of the citizenry above any and every other consideration (especially above
    > pumping up the balance sheet of convicted foreign monopolists)?


    See there you go
    Hate Microsoft
    Dont see any Hate Ibm yet they were in the antitrust courts for a lot
    longer and really just got off on a tecnicality

    Microsoft makes good software that lots of people use and which is
    reliable and effective

    FOSSies try to persuade us that softeare that only about 5% of people
    use is better than waht 90% of people use and which suits their purposes
     
    RJ, Mar 24, 2006
    #8
  9. On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:58:06 +1200, RJ wrote:

    > FOSSies try to persuade us that softeare that only about 5% of people
    > use is better than waht 90% of people use and which suits their purposes


    Apache - Open Source software that is used by the vast bulk of all
    websites, and therefore also by the vast bulk of all people using those
    websites.

    Sendmail, Fetchmail, pop3 - all Open Source software used by the bast bulk
    of all people sending email.

    Unix - either the proprietary versions (AIX, Solaris, HPUX), or the Open
    Source versions (Linux, *BSD) is quite clearly the dominant OS supporting
    the Internet today, as no other OS is both appropriately scaled, AND
    capable of handling the workload of the Internet.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    "The key benefit of open technologies such as open source software is
    freedom of choice."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 24, 2006
    #9
  10. Matthew Poole

    RJ Guest

    In article <>, says...
    > On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:58:06 +1200, RJ wrote:
    >
    > > FOSSies try to persuade us that softeare that only about 5% of people
    > > use is better than waht 90% of people use and which suits their purposes

    >
    > Apache - Open Source software that is used by the vast bulk of all
    > websites, and therefore also by the vast bulk of all people using those
    > websites.


    Not that vast - IIS has gained significant market share in recent years


    >
    > Sendmail, Fetchmail, pop3 - all Open Source software used by the bast bulk
    > of all people sending email.
    >
    > Unix - either the proprietary versions (AIX, Solaris, HPUX), or the Open
    > Source versions (Linux, *BSD) is quite clearly the dominant OS supporting
    > the Internet today, as no other OS is both appropriately scaled, AND
    > capable of handling the workload of the Internet.


    What a load of rubbish
    Plenty of big sites running on IIS
     
    RJ, Mar 24, 2006
    #10
  11. On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:26:59 +1200, someone purporting to be RJ didst
    scrawl:

    > In article <>, says...

    *SNIP*
    >> Unix - either the proprietary versions (AIX, Solaris, HPUX), or the Open
    >> Source versions (Linux, *BSD) is quite clearly the dominant OS supporting
    >> the Internet today, as no other OS is both appropriately scaled, AND
    >> capable of handling the workload of the Internet.

    >
    > What a load of rubbish
    > Plenty of big sites running on IIS


    Yes, there are. But the only site running IIS that is a household name is
    Hotmail.
    Google runs on Linux. Yahoo runs on FreeBSD. CNN is running a bunch of
    non-Microsoft OSes (FreeBSD, Solaris, Linux). The Beeb is running a number
    of unknowns, but the ones returned are non-MS. What that says is that
    Windows still hasn't convinced the biggest players, the ones with whom
    everyone is familiar. Hotmail runs on Windows because it was horribly
    embarrassing for MS that they had a major service running on something
    other than their OS. It ran just fine on FreeBSD, and they had to take two
    runs at replacing it with Windows.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Mar 24, 2006
    #11
  12. Matthew Poole

    Dave Doe Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:26:59 +1200, someone purporting to be RJ didst
    > scrawl:
    >
    > > In article <>, says...

    > *SNIP*
    > >> Unix - either the proprietary versions (AIX, Solaris, HPUX), or the Open
    > >> Source versions (Linux, *BSD) is quite clearly the dominant OS supporting
    > >> the Internet today, as no other OS is both appropriately scaled, AND
    > >> capable of handling the workload of the Internet.

    > >
    > > What a load of rubbish
    > > Plenty of big sites running on IIS

    >
    > Yes, there are. But the only site running IIS that is a household name is
    > Hotmail.


    Dunno is trademe is a household name in NZ ???

    --
    Duncan
     
    Dave Doe, Mar 24, 2006
    #12
  13. Matthew Poole

    Shane Guest

    RJ wrote:


    > Not that vast - IIS has gained significant market share in recent years
    >


    Actually no, IIS based websites peaked between May 2001 and November 2003
    if I read this graph right
    http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2006/02/02/february_2006_web_server_survey.html
    IIS deployment has pretty much stayed static at around 20% of the worlds
    sites
    Apache on the otherhand has had a steady growth rate (with the occasional
    dip)
     
    Shane, Mar 24, 2006
    #13
  14. Matthew Poole

    shannon Guest

    Matthew Poole wrote:
    > On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:40:00 +1200, someone purporting to be RJ didst
    > scrawl:
    >
    > *SNIP*
    >>> That's from a judicial ruling on the validity of the GPL. Sounds mighty
    >>> like the antithesis of communism, really, since it's encouraging those
    >>> capitalist ideals of competition and innovation.

    >> Yet its inherently about attacking the right of free market businesses
    >> to make money out of their business activities
    >>

    > Really? So you're disputing that IBM are making big money out of a GPL'd
    > operating system?
    >
    >> The zealots of open source loudly proclaim that the commercial business
    >> model based on proprietary code is wrong and attack the licensing models
    >> and intellectual property rights at every turn
    >>

    > As is their right, no? Freedom of expression, etc etc.
    > Their position is that software ought to be a commodity, with money
    > charged for services associated with supporting and extending that
    > software. They're certainly not against people making money, contrary to
    > your suggestion.
    >
    >> Practically every open source zealot I have encountered is a lefty and
    >> its easy to see how open source would fulfill socialist goals

    >
    > Open source also enables good governance. It forces openness on the civil
    > service, which I would've thought would be quite amenable to your desire
    > for small, accountable government? Or have I mis-read your intentions and
    > you're actually fully against the state having to put the best interests
    > of the citizenry above any and every other consideration (especially above
    > pumping up the balance sheet of convicted foreign monopolists)?
    >


    Dunfords response to anything he doesn't understand is to call it "commie".
    Your explanations are way over his head, but absolutely correct.
    The mechanism of free software is quid pro quo, tax free exchange of
    intellectual property, free enterprise.
     
    shannon, Mar 24, 2006
    #14
  15. Matthew Poole

    RJ Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:26:59 +1200, someone purporting to be RJ didst
    > scrawl:
    >
    > > In article <>, says...

    > *SNIP*
    > >> Unix - either the proprietary versions (AIX, Solaris, HPUX), or the Open
    > >> Source versions (Linux, *BSD) is quite clearly the dominant OS supporting
    > >> the Internet today, as no other OS is both appropriately scaled, AND
    > >> capable of handling the workload of the Internet.

    > >
    > > What a load of rubbish
    > > Plenty of big sites running on IIS

    >
    > Yes, there are. But the only site running IIS that is a household name is
    > Hotmail.
    > Google runs on Linux. Yahoo runs on FreeBSD. CNN is running a bunch of
    > non-Microsoft OSes (FreeBSD, Solaris, Linux). The Beeb is running a number
    > of unknowns, but the ones returned are non-MS.


    Oooh, a few carefully selected sites that aren't running Windows... just
    a few...
     
    RJ, Mar 25, 2006
    #15
  16. On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:27:49 +1200, someone purporting to be Dave Doe
    didst scrawl:

    > In article <>,
    > says...

    *SNIP*
    >> Yes, there are. But the only site running IIS that is a household name is
    >> Hotmail.

    >
    > Dunno is trademe is a household name in NZ ???


    Yes. But compared to the major content providers overseas it's a pitiful
    excuse for a fart in a hurricane.
    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Mar 25, 2006
    #16
  17. On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:11:34 +1200, someone purporting to be RJ didst
    scrawl:

    > In article <>,
    > says...

    *SNIP*
    >> Yes, there are. But the only site running IIS that is a household name is
    >> Hotmail.
    >> Google runs on Linux. Yahoo runs on FreeBSD. CNN is running a bunch of
    >> non-Microsoft OSes (FreeBSD, Solaris, Linux). The Beeb is running a number
    >> of unknowns, but the ones returned are non-MS.

    >
    > Oooh, a few carefully selected sites that aren't running Windows... just
    > a few...


    Those were quickly selected off the top of my head. Do feel free to post
    some counter examples that are as widely known as the ones I've presented.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Mar 25, 2006
    #17
  18. On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 16:03:11 +1200, Matthew Poole wrote:

    > On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:11:34 +1200, someone purporting to be RJ didst
    > scrawl:
    >
    >> In article <>,
    >> says...

    > *SNIP*
    >>> Yes, there are. But the only site running IIS that is a household name
    >>> is Hotmail.
    >>> Google runs on Linux. Yahoo runs on FreeBSD. CNN is running a bunch of
    >>> non-Microsoft OSes (FreeBSD, Solaris, Linux). The Beeb is running a
    >>> number of unknowns, but the ones returned are non-MS.

    >>
    >> Oooh, a few carefully selected sites that aren't running Windows... just
    >> a few...

    >
    > Those were quickly selected off the top of my head. Do feel free to post
    > some counter examples that are as widely known as the ones I've presented.


    Even Xtra who is so far in Microsoft's pocket that it has xtramsn on
    it's homepage logo, run netscape webserver on Solaris.
     
    David A' Rebel, Mar 25, 2006
    #18
  19. On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 16:17:16 +1200, someone purporting to be David A'
    Rebel didst scrawl:

    > On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 16:03:11 +1200, Matthew Poole wrote:

    *SNIP*
    > Even Xtra who is so far in Microsoft's pocket that it has xtramsn on
    > it's homepage logo, run netscape webserver on Solaris.


    Their mail servers are running on Solaris too. Telecom are big on Solaris,
    for whatever reason.

    I don't think there's a single ISP of any size in NZ that's running
    Windows for core services.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Mar 25, 2006
    #19
  20. On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 17:08:40 +1200, Matthew Poole wrote:

    > I don't think there's a single ISP of any size in NZ that's running
    > Windows for core services.


    What does that tell ya?


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Jeffrey Jaffe, Novell CTO: "Open source and Linux in particular, have
    become an ideal environment for developing enterprise-class software,
    whether it is on the desktop or running major corporate workloads."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 25, 2006
    #20
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