So cruel, so true

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by SkepticalSteve@gmail.com, Feb 7, 2007.

  1. Guest

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  2. Fred Dagg Guest

    On 6 Feb 2007 18:22:51 -0800, exclaimed:

    >Ooo, this one stings:
    >
    >http://images.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac/apple-getamac-security_480x376.mov


    Well, no actually, but don't let facts get in the way...

    I learnt from an early age that any company that has to market
    themselves by attacking others usually has very little to offer. I
    guess this is yet another example of this.


    --
    Stupidest Comment of the Year Award:

    "People should take responsibility for their actions"

    - (Leftist) Matty F (7/1/2007), when explaining it was actually the quadbiker's fault that he was brutally murdered by Graeme Burton. According to Matty F, it was his fault that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time...
    Fred Dagg, Feb 7, 2007
    #2
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  3. Rob Guest

    Rob, Feb 7, 2007
    #3
  4. Fred Dagg Guest

    On Wed, 7 Feb 2007 16:15:49 +1300, "Rob" <> exclaimed:

    >
    ><> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Ooo, this one stings:
    >>
    >> http://images.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac/apple-getamac-security_480x376.mov
    >>

    >
    >There are security holes in apples products too, it is just that such a
    >small percentage use apples for hackers to expliot these holes.


    Exactly. It's like IE versus Firefox, or Eudora versus Outlook.

    For instance, now that a heap of people are using Firefox, there are
    more vulnerabilities for it than IE (although the OSS crowd are pretty
    quiet about that now).

    To make a successful virus etc you need enough people using a product
    to make it easily spreadable.


    --
    Stupidest Comment of the Year Award:

    "People should take responsibility for their actions"

    - (Leftist) Matty F (7/1/2007), when explaining it was actually the quadbiker's fault that he was brutally murdered by Graeme Burton. According to Matty F, it was his fault that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time...
    Fred Dagg, Feb 7, 2007
    #4
  5. Chris Hope Guest

    Fred Dagg wrote:

    > On 6 Feb 2007 18:22:51 -0800, exclaimed:
    >
    >>Ooo, this one stings:
    >>
    >>http://images.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac/apple-getamac-security_480x376.mov

    >
    > Well, no actually, but don't let facts get in the way...
    >
    > I learnt from an early age that any company that has to market
    > themselves by attacking others usually has very little to offer. I
    > guess this is yet another example of this.


    That's what Microsoft does (no, not all their marketing is attacking
    others, but they sure have done a lot of that over the years), yet you
    seem to hold them in high regard.

    --
    Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.com
    Chris Hope, Feb 7, 2007
    #5
  6. Enkidu Guest

    Fred Dagg wrote:
    >
    >> There are security holes in apples products too, it is just that
    >> such a small percentage use apples for hackers to expliot these
    >> holes.

    >
    > Exactly. It's like IE versus Firefox, or Eudora versus Outlook.
    >

    IE is a browser. Firefix is a browser. OK so far. Eudora is a mail
    client. But Outlook is a client for MS Exchange that does mail among a
    lot of other things. Or did you mean Outlook Express which is basically
    a mail client?

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Have you ever noticed that if something is advertised as 'amusing' or
    'hilarious', it usually isn't?
    Enkidu, Feb 7, 2007
    #6
  7. Fred Dagg Guest

    On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 20:02:23 +1300, Chris Hope
    <> exclaimed:

    >Fred Dagg wrote:
    >
    >> On 6 Feb 2007 18:22:51 -0800, exclaimed:
    >>
    >>>Ooo, this one stings:
    >>>
    >>>http://images.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac/apple-getamac-security_480x376.mov

    >>
    >> Well, no actually, but don't let facts get in the way...
    >>
    >> I learnt from an early age that any company that has to market
    >> themselves by attacking others usually has very little to offer. I
    >> guess this is yet another example of this.

    >
    >That's what Microsoft does (no, not all their marketing is attacking
    >others, but they sure have done a lot of that over the years), yet you
    >seem to hold them in high regard.


    Contrary to popular opinion, I don't hold Microsoft in particularly
    high regard. Except that they make pretty good products.

    99% of Microsoft marketing is not attacking others.

    99% of MacOS marketing is attacking PCs.

    99% of Linux FUD is attacking Windows.


    --
    Stupidest Comment of the Year Award:

    "People should take responsibility for their actions"

    - (Leftist) Matty F (7/1/2007), when explaining it was actually the quadbiker's fault that he was brutally murdered by Graeme Burton. According to Matty F, it was his fault that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time...
    Fred Dagg, Feb 7, 2007
    #7
  8. Fred Dagg Guest

    On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 22:36:28 +1300, Enkidu <>
    exclaimed:

    >Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>
    >>> There are security holes in apples products too, it is just that
    >>> such a small percentage use apples for hackers to expliot these
    >>> holes.

    >>
    >> Exactly. It's like IE versus Firefox, or Eudora versus Outlook.
    >>

    >IE is a browser. Firefix is a browser. OK so far. Eudora is a mail
    >client. But Outlook is a client for MS Exchange that does mail among a
    >lot of other things. Or did you mean Outlook Express which is basically
    >a mail client?


    What's your point?


    --
    Stupidest Comment of the Year Award:

    "People should take responsibility for their actions"

    - (Leftist) Matty F (7/1/2007), when explaining it was actually the quadbiker's fault that he was brutally murdered by Graeme Burton. According to Matty F, it was his fault that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time...
    Fred Dagg, Feb 7, 2007
    #8
  9. Peter Guest

    Fred Dagg wrote:
    > 99% of Microsoft marketing is not attacking others.
    > 99% of MacOS marketing is attacking PCs.
    > 99% of Linux FUD is attacking Windows.


    just more evidence of Microsoft's monopoly power over the market.
    Peter, Feb 7, 2007
    #9
  10. Guest

    On Feb 7, 3:29 pm, Fred Dagg <> wrote:
    > On 6 Feb 2007 18:22:51 -0800, exclaimed:
    >
    > >Ooo, this one stings:

    >
    > >http://images.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac/apple-getamac-securit...

    >
    > Well, no actually, but don't let facts get in the way...
    >
    > I learnt from an early age that any company that has to market
    > themselves by attacking others usually has very little to offer. I
    > guess this is yet another example of this.
    >


    Oh really? Then how do you explain the following: "Nowadays, security
    guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out
    with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare
    anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine. So, yes, it
    took us longer, and they had what we were doing, user interface-wise.
    Let's be realistic, who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help
    [menu bar]? Do you want to go back to the original Mac and think about
    where those interface concepts came from?"

    Of course none of that is true, but who do you think the speaker is:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16934083/site/newsweek/page/2/

    Well?
    , Feb 7, 2007
    #10
  11. Fred Dagg Guest

    On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 06:48:22 +1300, Peter <>
    exclaimed:

    >Fred Dagg wrote:
    >> 99% of Microsoft marketing is not attacking others.
    >> 99% of MacOS marketing is attacking PCs.
    >> 99% of Linux FUD is attacking Windows.

    >
    >just more evidence of Microsoft's monopoly power over the market.
    >

    Huh? How do you figure that?


    --
    Stupidest Comment of the Year Award:

    "People should take responsibility for their actions"

    - (Leftist) Matty F (7/1/2007), when explaining it was actually the quadbiker's fault that he was brutally murdered by Graeme Burton. According to Matty F, it was his fault that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time...
    Fred Dagg, Feb 7, 2007
    #11
  12. Fred Dagg Guest

    On 7 Feb 2007 14:12:29 -0800, exclaimed:

    >On Feb 7, 3:29 pm, Fred Dagg <> wrote:
    >> On 6 Feb 2007 18:22:51 -0800, exclaimed:
    >>
    >> >Ooo, this one stings:

    >>
    >> >http://images.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac/apple-getamac-securit...

    >>
    >> Well, no actually, but don't let facts get in the way...
    >>
    >> I learnt from an early age that any company that has to market
    >> themselves by attacking others usually has very little to offer. I
    >> guess this is yet another example of this.
    >>

    >
    >Oh really? Then how do you explain the following: "Nowadays, security
    >guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out
    >with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare
    >anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine. So, yes, it
    >took us longer, and they had what we were doing, user interface-wise.
    >Let's be realistic, who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help
    >[menu bar]? Do you want to go back to the original Mac and think about
    >where those interface concepts came from?"
    >
    >Of course none of that is true, but who do you think the speaker is:
    >
    >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16934083/site/newsweek/page/2/
    >
    >Well?


    Firstly, why do you say none of that is true?

    Secondly, that was in *DIRECT* response to the Mac FUD ads, which
    continually lie and exaggerate about PCs. I hardly think you can
    compare a company (Apple) whom spend their entire marketing budget
    attacking another company with another (MS) who's Chairman defends
    them in an interview, by pointing out that they are lies!


    --
    Stupidest Comment of the Year Award:

    "People should take responsibility for their actions"

    - (Leftist) Matty F (7/1/2007), when explaining it was actually the quadbiker's fault that he was brutally murdered by Graeme Burton. According to Matty F, it was his fault that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time...
    Fred Dagg, Feb 7, 2007
    #12
  13. Guest

    On Feb 8, 12:54 pm, Fred Dagg <> wrote:
    > On 7 Feb 2007 14:12:29 -0800, exclaimed:
    >
    >
    >
    > >On Feb 7, 3:29 pm, Fred Dagg <> wrote:
    > >> On 6 Feb 2007 18:22:51 -0800, exclaimed:

    >
    > >> >Ooo, this one stings:

    >
    > >> >http://images.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac/apple-getamac-securit...

    >
    > >> Well, no actually, but don't let facts get in the way...

    >
    > >> I learnt from an early age that any company that has to market
    > >> themselves by attacking others usually has very little to offer. I
    > >> guess this is yet another example of this.

    >
    > >Oh really? Then how do you explain the following: "Nowadays, security
    > >guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out
    > >with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare
    > >anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine. So, yes, it
    > >took us longer, and they had what we were doing, user interface-wise.
    > >Let's be realistic, who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help
    > >[menu bar]? Do you want to go back to the original Mac and think about
    > >where those interface concepts came from?"

    >
    > >Of course none of that is true, but who do you think the speaker is:

    >
    > >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16934083/site/newsweek/page/2/

    >
    > >Well?

    >
    > Firstly, why do you say none of that is true?
    >


    Because none of it is true. Macs have something over 5% of the world's
    personal computer market, according to data collected from the net,
    but they don't have 5% of the world's malware: they have 0%.
    Techniques by which OSX security could potentially be compromised have
    been demonstrated but no OSX virus has ever been observed in the wild.
    Nor have there ever been any reports of an OSX machine being "totally
    taken over" -- or even partially, despite Gates' lies on this issue.

    As you said, "any company that has to market themselves by attacking
    others usually has very little to offer."

    Of course since I don't work for Apple I feel free to pass this on:

    "Sydney - February 5, 2007: Trend Micro, Incorporated (TSE: 4704,
    NASDAQ: TMIC), a leader in network antivirus and Internet content
    security software and services offer advice and services to combat the
    increasing TROJ_SMALL.EDW threat.

    Trend Micro estimates that 1,403 computers in ANZ have been infected
    by the threat since January 19, 2007 when it first emerged.

    The Web threat includes a malicious Trojan horse program - detected
    by Trend Micro as TROJ_SMALL.EDW - that is characterised by a
    multitude of variants and arrives through several means..." and so on.
    Just the latest in an never-ending series of Windows security
    disasters, and I bet the owners of the 1403 computers infected in our
    region alone are pleased to know Microsoft is on the case. Yeah,
    right.

    As for "who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help [menu bar]? "
    Apple, actually -- it was not a concept they inherited from Xerox
    PARC, and it certainly had mothing to do with Microsoft.

    >
    > Secondly, that was in *DIRECT* response to the Mac FUD ads,


    No, it actually was a response to this remark from the interviewer:
    "In many of the Vista reviews, even the positive ones, people note
    that some Vista features are already in the Mac operating system."

    > which
    > continually lie and exaggerate about PCs.


    Exagerrate for comic effect, possibly. But lie? Be specific.

    > I hardly think you can
    > compare a company (Apple) whom spend their entire marketing budget
    > attacking another company


    No it doesn't -- at a rough estimate I'd say it spends much more
    promting iPods.


    > with another (MS) who's Chairman defends
    > them in an interview, by pointing out that they are lies!
    >


    No he didn't -- he spewed up a bunch of his own lies instead. What a
    humourless ass.

    Wake up, Dagg.
    , Feb 8, 2007
    #13
  14. Enkidu Guest

    Fred Dagg wrote:
    > On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 22:36:28 +1300, Enkidu
    > <> exclaimed:
    >
    >> Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>>> There are security holes in apples products too, it is just
    >>>> that such a small percentage use apples for hackers to expliot
    >>>> these holes.
    >>> Exactly. It's like IE versus Firefox, or Eudora versus Outlook.
    >>>

    >> IE is a browser. Firefix is a browser. OK so far. Eudora is a mail
    >> client. But Outlook is a client for MS Exchange that does mail
    >> among a lot of other things. Or did you mean Outlook Express which
    >> is basically a mail client?

    >
    > What's your point?
    >

    It's obvious.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Have you ever noticed that if something is advertised as 'amusing' or
    'hilarious', it usually isn't?
    Enkidu, Feb 8, 2007
    #14
  15. Jamie Kahn Genet, Feb 8, 2007
    #15
  16. Fred Dagg Guest

    On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 20:23:46 +1300, Enkidu <>
    exclaimed:

    >Fred Dagg wrote:
    >> On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 22:36:28 +1300, Enkidu
    >> <> exclaimed:
    >>
    >>> Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>>>> There are security holes in apples products too, it is just
    >>>>> that such a small percentage use apples for hackers to expliot
    >>>>> these holes.
    >>>> Exactly. It's like IE versus Firefox, or Eudora versus Outlook.
    >>>>
    >>> IE is a browser. Firefix is a browser. OK so far. Eudora is a mail
    >>> client. But Outlook is a client for MS Exchange that does mail
    >>> among a lot of other things. Or did you mean Outlook Express which
    >>> is basically a mail client?

    >>
    >> What's your point?
    >>

    >It's obvious.


    Well, no, it's not.

    Whilst Outlook is also the Exchange client, it is also used widely as
    a standalone email application. That aside, fine, compare Eudora with
    Outlook Express if it makes you feel better.


    --
    Stupidest Comment of the Year Award:

    "People should take responsibility for their actions"

    - (Leftist) Matty F (7/1/2007), when explaining it was actually the quadbiker's fault that he was brutally murdered by Graeme Burton. According to Matty F, it was his fault that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time...
    Fred Dagg, Feb 8, 2007
    #16
  17. Fred Dagg Guest

    On 7 Feb 2007 16:47:01 -0800, exclaimed:

    >> Firstly, why do you say none of that is true?
    >>

    >
    >Because none of it is true. Macs have something over 5% of the world's
    >personal computer market, according to data collected from the net,
    >but they don't have 5% of the world's malware: they have 0%.


    Why would you right malware for such a small segment of the market?

    Considering most spyware etc is installed alongside genuine software,
    there's absolutely no reason whatsoever this couldn't be done on the
    Mac, or Linux for that matter.

    >Techniques by which OSX security could potentially be compromised have
    >been demonstrated but no OSX virus has ever been observed in the wild.


    Again, how's a virus going to spread when such a small number of
    clients exist? Why would you bother?

    >Nor have there ever been any reports of an OSX machine being "totally
    >taken over" -- or even partially, despite Gates' lies on this issue.


    What rubbish. no offence, but anyone making a claim like that about
    any operating system really doesn't understand the subject matter.

    Try: http://secunia.com/product/96/

    Note that 19% of OSX vulnerabilities remain unpatched, including
    "Highly Critical" vulnerabilities. Note that there were more
    vulnerabilities in January this year than any other month ever!

    Doesn't sound so secure after all, despite the FUD from Apple.

    >As you said, "any company that has to market themselves by attacking
    >others usually has very little to offer."
    >
    >Of course since I don't work for Apple I feel free to pass this on:
    >

    <snip>

    Apple aren't immune to vulnerabilities either. Or Linux. In fact most
    distributions of Linux have had a heck of a lot more vulnerabilities
    found than Windows. Again, the FUD-packers fail to mention that when
    they're going on about how Linux is "more secure".

    >As for "who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help [menu bar]? "
    >Apple, actually -- it was not a concept they inherited from Xerox
    >PARC, and it certainly had mothing to do with Microsoft.


    I'm pretty sure you're wrong there. Care to cite a reference to that?

    >> Secondly, that was in *DIRECT* response to the Mac FUD ads,

    >
    >No, it actually was a response to this remark from the interviewer:
    >"In many of the Vista reviews, even the positive ones, people note
    >that some Vista features are already in the Mac operating system."


    Look at it in context. It was during a series of questions about the
    FUD spewed forth in the Mac adverts.

    >> which
    >> continually lie and exaggerate about PCs.

    >
    >Exagerrate for comic effect, possibly. But lie? Be specific.


    Do you really need me to point it out? Head over to YouTube and watch
    a few of them, then come back and objectively state that they are not
    dishonest.

    >> I hardly think you can
    >> compare a company (Apple) whom spend their entire marketing budget
    >> attacking another company

    >
    >No it doesn't -- at a rough estimate I'd say it spends much more
    >promting iPods.


    We're talking computers. Sure, I should have been more specific, but
    I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant.

    >> with another (MS) who's Chairman defends
    >> them in an interview, by pointing out that they are lies!
    >>

    >No he didn't -- he spewed up a bunch of his own lies instead. What a
    >humourless ass.


    Whilst his comments do seem a little "exaggerated for comic relief,
    possibly", the gyst of what he was saying was true.

    >Wake up, Dagg.


    Maybe you should take your own advice?


    --
    Stupidest Comment of the Year Award:

    "People should take responsibility for their actions"

    - (Leftist) Matty F (7/1/2007), when explaining it was actually the quadbiker's fault that he was brutally murdered by Graeme Burton. According to Matty F, it was his fault that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time...
    Fred Dagg, Feb 8, 2007
    #17
  18. jasen Guest

    On 2007-02-07, <> wrote:
    > Oh really? Then how do you explain the following: "Nowadays, security
    > guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out
    > with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare
    > anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine. So, yes, it
    > took us longer, and they had what we were doing, user interface-wise.
    > Let's be realistic, who came up with [the] file, edit, view, help
    > [menu bar]?


    lotus 123 had that or similar, all keyboard driven of course.

    Bye.
    Jasen
    jasen, Feb 8, 2007
    #18
  19. Enkidu Guest

    Fred Dagg wrote:
    > On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 20:23:46 +1300, Enkidu <>
    > exclaimed:
    >
    >> Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>> On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 22:36:28 +1300, Enkidu
    >>> <> exclaimed:
    >>>
    >>>> Fred Dagg wrote:
    >>>>>> There are security holes in apples products too, it is just
    >>>>>> that such a small percentage use apples for hackers to expliot
    >>>>>> these holes.
    >>>>> Exactly. It's like IE versus Firefox, or Eudora versus Outlook.
    >>>>>
    >>>> IE is a browser. Firefix is a browser. OK so far. Eudora is a mail
    >>>> client. But Outlook is a client for MS Exchange that does mail
    >>>> among a lot of other things. Or did you mean Outlook Express which
    >>>> is basically a mail client?
    >>> What's your point?
    >>>

    >> It's obvious.

    >
    > Well, no, it's not.
    >
    > Whilst Outlook is also the Exchange client, it is also used widely as
    > a standalone email application. That aside, fine, compare Eudora with
    > Outlook Express if it makes you feel better.
    >

    You'd have to be insane to purchase Outlook as a standalone mail
    application. I don't believe that it is used often as such.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    Have you ever noticed that if something is advertised as 'amusing' or
    'hilarious', it usually isn't?
    Enkidu, Feb 8, 2007
    #19
  20. Chris Hope Guest

    Enkidu wrote:

    [snip]

    >> Whilst Outlook is also the Exchange client, it is also used widely as
    >> a standalone email application. That aside, fine, compare Eudora with
    >> Outlook Express if it makes you feel better.
    >>

    > You'd have to be insane to purchase Outlook as a standalone mail
    > application. I don't believe that it is used often as such.


    I know many people who uses Outlook as a standalone email client when
    they have MS Office. Obviously, when they don't have MS Office then
    they use something else.

    --
    Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.com
    Chris Hope, Feb 8, 2007
    #20
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