smallest dslr available in US

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by John Smith, Mar 10, 2007.

  1. John Smith

    John Smith Guest

    Looking for a new 'street" edc camera...since the "compact" trend doesn't
    seem to be cutting it these days (raw becoming hard to find, for example),
    I'm thinking a mini-dslr might be the way to go...

    Any thoughts on the he smallest unit I can actually buy in the USA today?

    Thanks, DP
     
    John Smith, Mar 10, 2007
    #1
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  2. John Smith

    tomm42 Guest

    On Mar 10, 10:43 am, "John Smith" <> wrote:
    > Looking for a new 'street" edc camera...since the "compact" trend doesn't
    > seem to be cutting it these days (raw becoming hard to find, for example),
    > I'm thinking a mini-dslr might be the way to go...
    >
    > Any thoughts on the he smallest unit I can actually buy in the USA today?
    >
    > Thanks, DP



    The Nikon D40 may be the smallest, but you are locked into zoom lenses
    as no Nikon primes have internal motors (well the 105 micro VR does
    but not exactly a street lens). The Pentax K100 may be the best
    choice, they have compact lenses like a pancake 21mm.
    There are also the rangefinders, though we are talking another level
    of $. The Epson RD-1 or the Leica M8. Cosina makes an affordable
    series of lenses under the Voigtlander name. Then of course there is
    the the Leica and Zeiss lenses.

    Tom
     
    tomm42, Mar 10, 2007
    #2
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  3. John Smith

    John Smith Guest


    >
    > The Nikon D40 may be the smallest, but you are locked into zoom lenses
    > as no Nikon primes have internal motors (well the 105 micro VR does
    > but not exactly a street lens). The Pentax K100 may be the best
    > choice, they have compact lenses like a pancake 21mm.
    > There are also the rangefinders, though we are talking another level
    > of $. The Epson RD-1 or the Leica M8. Cosina makes an affordable
    > series of lenses under the Voigtlander name. Then of course there is
    > the the Leica and Zeiss lenses.
    >
    > Tom
    >


    Mini Nikon would be good for me as I have a D70 that I hardly carry due to
    size...I only use prime lenses on that, would they work on the D40?

    DP
     
    John Smith, Mar 10, 2007
    #3
  4. John Smith

    Guest

    On Mar 10, 6:43 pm, "John Smith" <> wrote:
    > Looking for a new 'street" edc camera...since the "compact" trend doesn't
    > seem to be cutting it these days (raw becoming hard to find, for example),
    > I'm thinking a mini-dslr might be the way to go...
    >
    > Any thoughts on the he smallest unit I can actually buy in the USA today?
    >
    > Thanks, DP


    EOS 400D, man.
     
    , Mar 10, 2007
    #4
  5. John Smith

    ASAAR Guest

    On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:43:56 -0500, John Smith wrote:

    > Looking for a new 'street" edc camera...since the "compact" trend doesn't
    > seem to be cutting it these days (raw becoming hard to find, for example),
    > I'm thinking a mini-dslr might be the way to go...
    >
    > Any thoughts on the he smallest unit I can actually buy in the USA today?


    The D40 is Nikon's smallest DSLR, and it's slightly smaller than
    Canon's 400D. Dpreview has a table including their peers. With
    your newsreader set to the right fixed pitch font the copy below
    should line up. If not, the table is located at:

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40/page3.asp

    > Olympus E-500 130 x 95 x 66 mm (5.1 x 3.7 x 2.6 in) 479 g (1.1 lb)
    > Nikon D40 126 x 94 x 64 mm (5.0 x 3.7 x 2.5 in) 524 g (1.2 lb)
    > Canon EOS 350D 127 x 94 x 64 mm (5.0 x 3.7 x 2.5 in) 540 g (1.2 lb)
    > Canon EOS 400D 127 x 94 x 65 mm (5.0 x 3.7 x 2.5 in) 556 g (1.2 lb)
    > Sony DSLR-A100 133 x 95 x 71 mm (5.2 x 3.7 x 2.8 in) 638 g (1.4 lb)
    > Pentax K100D 129 x 93 x 70 mm (5.0 x 3.7 x 2.8 in) 660 g (1.5 lb)
    > Nikon D80 132 x 103 x 77 mm (5.2 x 4.1 x 3.0 in) 668 g (1.5 lb)
    > Nikon D70 / D70s 140 x 111 x 78 mm (5.5 x 4.4 x 3.1 in) 679 g (1.5 lb)
    > Nikon D50 133 x 102 x 76 mm (5.2 x 4.0 x 3.0 in) 620 g (1.4 lb)


    The Olympus E-400 is quite a bit smaller than any of these, but it
    isn't available in the USA. If you can afford to wait (at a guess,
    a couple of months) the recently announced E-410 will be available
    in the USA. Here's a link to dpreview's announcement, including a
    press release and a hands-on preview:

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0703/07030503olympuse410.asp


    [from another message]
    >> The Nikon D40 may be the smallest, but you are locked into zoom
    >> lenses as no Nikon primes have internal motors (well the 105 micro
    >> VR does but not exactly a street lens).

    >
    > Mini Nikon would be good for me as I have a D70 that I hardly carry due
    > to size...I only use prime lenses on that, would they work on the D40?


    From what Tom said, no. The D50 would work with your lenses, but
    it's about midway in size and weight between the D40 and the D70. I
    added the D50's spec's to the above table, it wasn't included by
    dpreview in theirs. All weights are based on an included battery.
     
    ASAAR, Mar 10, 2007
    #5
  6. tomm42 wrote:

    > The Nikon D40 may be the smallest, but you are locked into zoom lenses
    > as no Nikon primes have internal motors (well the 105 micro VR does
    > but not exactly a street lens).


    Works fine with Nikon primes -- even manual focus. But doesn't
    auto-focus with non-AF-S lenses, and doesn't meter with non-chipped
    (basically, non-AF) lenses. Since the "classic" street cameras had
    neither autofocus nor meters, this doesn't seem like a big problem. (I
    made lots of use of old manual-focus lenses on a Fuji S2, where they
    didn't meter.)

    While I understand some people may feel differently from me about the
    importance of these features, and may therefore make different choices
    from me, I do think it's important to distinguish between "can't be
    used" and "works, but lacking some features". People need to be able to
    make their own decisions about which features are worth how much to
    them, we shouldn't be imposing our own views (it would be wrong for me
    to say "they work just fine" and not mention the limitations).
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Mar 10, 2007
    #6
  7. John Smith

    Paul Rubin Guest

    David Dyer-Bennet <> writes:
    > Works fine with Nikon primes -- even manual focus. But doesn't
    > auto-focus with non-AF-S lenses, and doesn't meter with non-chipped
    > (basically, non-AF) lenses. Since the "classic" street cameras had
    > neither autofocus nor meters, this doesn't seem like a big problem.


    But they had much better viewfinders, with manual focus assistance
    devices.

    > (I made lots of use of old manual-focus lenses on a Fuji S2, where
    > they didn't meter.)


    I dunno how you did that, for anything like street shooting. I
    thought the S2's viewfinder was similar to a D70's. There's a
    tremendous difference between that and something like an F3.
     
    Paul Rubin, Mar 10, 2007
    #7
  8. John Smith

    THO Guest

    In article <afc53$45f2dedb$4018507b$>,
    "John Smith" <> wrote:

    > >
    > > The Nikon D40 may be the smallest, but you are locked into zoom lenses
    > > as no Nikon primes have internal motors (well the 105 micro VR does
    > > but not exactly a street lens). The Pentax K100 may be the best
    > > choice, they have compact lenses like a pancake 21mm.
    > > There are also the rangefinders, though we are talking another level
    > > of $. The Epson RD-1 or the Leica M8. Cosina makes an affordable
    > > series of lenses under the Voigtlander name. Then of course there is
    > > the the Leica and Zeiss lenses.
    > >
    > > Tom
    > >

    >
    > Mini Nikon would be good for me as I have a D70 that I hardly carry due to
    > size...I only use prime lenses on that, would they work on the D40?
    >
    > DP


    They won't autofocus on the D40/D40x.
     
    THO, Mar 10, 2007
    #8
  9. John Smith

    tomm42 Guest

    On Mar 10, 11:37 am, "John Smith" <> wrote:
    > > The Nikon D40 may be the smallest, but you are locked into zoom lenses
    > > as no Nikon primes have internal motors (well the 105 micro VR does
    > > but not exactly a street lens). The Pentax K100 may be the best
    > > choice, they have compact lenses like a pancake 21mm.
    > > There are also the rangefinders, though we are talking another level
    > > of $. The Epson RD-1 or the Leica M8. Cosina makes an affordable
    > > series of lenses under the Voigtlander name. Then of course there is
    > > the the Leica and Zeiss lenses.

    >
    > > Tom

    >
    > Mini Nikon would be good for me as I have a D70 that I hardly carry due to
    > size...I only use prime lenses on that, would they work on the D40?
    >
    > DP


    If they are NIKON screw drive AF lenses they will meter but not AF on
    the D40. The Sigma 30 f1.4 has an HSM motor and will AF with the D40.
    The problem with the D40 is it has a mirror viewfinder, more mag than
    the D70 but still dim, which would make precise focusing difficult.
    But on the street there is zone focusing.

    Tom
     
    tomm42, Mar 10, 2007
    #9
  10. John Smith

    tomm42 Guest

    On Mar 10, 11:37 am, "John Smith" <> wrote:
    > > The Nikon D40 may be the smallest, but you are locked into zoom lenses
    > > as no Nikon primes have internal motors (well the 105 micro VR does
    > > but not exactly a street lens). The Pentax K100 may be the best
    > > choice, they have compact lenses like a pancake 21mm.
    > > There are also the rangefinders, though we are talking another level
    > > of $. The Epson RD-1 or the Leica M8. Cosina makes an affordable
    > > series of lenses under the Voigtlander name. Then of course there is
    > > the the Leica and Zeiss lenses.

    >
    > > Tom

    >
    > Mini Nikon would be good for me as I have a D70 that I hardly carry due to
    > size...I only use prime lenses on that, would they work on the D40?
    >
    > DP


    If they are NIKON screw drive AF lenses they will meter but not AF on
    the D40. The Sigma 30 f1.4 has an HSM motor and will AF with the D40.
    The problem with the D40 is it has a mirror viewfinder, more mag than
    the D70 but still dim, which would make precise focusing difficult.
    But on the street there is zone focusing.

    Tom
     
    tomm42, Mar 10, 2007
    #10
  11. John Smith

    John Smith Guest


    >
    > If they are NIKON screw drive AF lenses they will meter but not AF on
    > the D40. The Sigma 30 f1.4 has an HSM motor and will AF with the D40.
    > The problem with the D40 is it has a mirror viewfinder, more mag than
    > the D70 but still dim, which would make precise focusing difficult.
    > But on the street there is zone focusing.
    >
    > Tom
    >

    Unless I'm using a long lens, I prefocus and go with dof anyway, so lack of
    auto focus is no deal breaker.

    But I stopped by a big box store tonight to take a look at the D40 and with
    lens, it's still a pretty hefty package for what I have in mind.

    Dunno anything about the quality these days, but size wise, that Pentax with
    the pancake lens seems like a it might be worth a look.

    DP
     
    John Smith, Mar 11, 2007
    #11
  12. "John Smith" <> wrote:

    > Dunno anything about the quality these days, but size wise, that
    > Pentax with the pancake lens seems like a it might be worth a look.


    A nice cheap outfit is a Pentax K100D or K110D with an old 28mm F/2.8 prime
    lens off of eBay yielding the same FOV as a more expensive 42mm pancake.
    F/2.8 is faster than most "kit" lenses, smaller (being a non-zoom), and
    also much sharper (same reason). Double your ISO and imagine it is F/2.0
    :^)

    I use a Pentax-A 28mm F/2.8 as a "normal" lens but also found a cheap
    Vivitar equivalent was just as sharp except wide open.
     
    Charles Gillen, Mar 11, 2007
    #12
  13. John Smith

    ASAAR Guest

    On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 22:47:16 -0500, John Smith wrote:

    > But I stopped by a big box store tonight to take a look at the D40 and with
    > lens, it's still a pretty hefty package for what I have in mind.
    >
    > Dunno anything about the quality these days, but size wise, that Pentax with
    > the pancake lens seems like a it might be worth a look.


    Considering only the bodies, the Pentax K100D is larger than any
    of the small Nikon and Canon bodies and considerably heavier. If
    the pancake lens weighs very little, it might make the combined
    weights of body + lens comparable, but only for that one
    combination. If you ever put another lens on the K100D you'll again
    have a larger, heavier package than if a comparable lens was used on
    a D40, 350D or 400D. And as I noted, while you did specify
    availability in the USA today, if you can afford to wait a little
    while, you'll be able to get an Olympus E-410 in the USA, and its
    size and weight will be noticeably less than any of the other DSLRs,
    479g. vs. 660g. for the E-410 vs. the K100D, for instance, and
    Olympus's DSLR and lens quality tends to be pretty high.
     
    ASAAR, Mar 11, 2007
    #13
  14. John Smith

    Guest

    On 3ÔÂ10ÈÕ, ÏÂÎç11ʱ43·Ö, "John Smith" <> wrote:
    > Looking for a new 'street" edc camera...since the "compact" trend doesn't
    > seem to be cutting it these days (raw becoming hard to find, for example),
    > I'm thinking a mini-dslr might be the way to go...
    >
    > Any thoughts on the he smallest unit I can actually buy in the USA today?
    >
    > Thanks, DP


    Good!
    http://fy4.net/ad.html
     
    , Mar 11, 2007
    #14
  15. John Smith

    Bill Funk Guest

    On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:43:56 -0500, "John Smith"
    <> wrote:

    >Looking for a new 'street" edc camera...since the "compact" trend doesn't
    >seem to be cutting it these days (raw becoming hard to find, for example),
    >I'm thinking a mini-dslr might be the way to go...
    >
    >Any thoughts on the he smallest unit I can actually buy in the USA today?
    >
    >Thanks, DP
    >


    Soon:
    http://www.minox.com/index.php?id=1267&L=1
    Leica M3 replica.

    --
    The New York Times reported
    Barack Obama made investments
    in companies owned by his
    campaign donors, then tried
    to help them with legislation.
    He says he didn't know he owned
    their stock. Scooter Libby
    watched his performance and
    gave it a seven.
     
    Bill Funk, Mar 11, 2007
    #15
  16. John Smith

    John Smith Guest

    "ASAAR" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...

    And as I noted, while you did specify
    > availability in the USA today, if you can afford to wait a little
    > while, you'll be able to get an Olympus E-410 in the USA, and its
    > size and weight will be noticeably less than any of the other DSLRs,
    > 479g. vs. 660g. for the E-410 vs. the K100D, for instance, and
    > Olympus's DSLR and lens quality tends to be pretty high.
    >


    Will that camera have raw capabilities? and does Olympus have "primes" in
    the 24mm range for their Dslr's?

    Tried to find some info on the net, but could only seem find press releases
    and speculation.

    DP
     
    John Smith, Mar 12, 2007
    #16
  17. John Smith

    ASAAR Guest

    On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 21:16:33 -0400, John Smith wrote:

    > Will that camera have raw capabilities? and does Olympus have "primes" in
    > the 24mm range for their Dslr's?
    >
    > Tried to find some info on the net, but could only seem find press releases
    > and speculation.


    Since you only replied to my second message I assume that you
    missed the first. It had a link that answered your first question.
    Here's a copy of the relevant portion of the first message that
    contains the link as well as a table of dimensions and weights:


    >> Any thoughts on the he smallest unit I can actually buy in the USA today?

    >
    > The D40 is Nikon's smallest DSLR, and it's slightly smaller than
    > Canon's 400D. Dpreview has a table including their peers. With
    > your newsreader set to the right fixed pitch font the copy below
    > should line up. If not, the table is located at:
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40/page3.asp
    >
    >> Olympus E-500 130 x 95 x 66 mm (5.1 x 3.7 x 2.6 in) 479 g (1.1 lb)
    >> Nikon D40 126 x 94 x 64 mm (5.0 x 3.7 x 2.5 in) 524 g (1.2 lb)
    >> Canon EOS 350D 127 x 94 x 64 mm (5.0 x 3.7 x 2.5 in) 540 g (1.2 lb)
    >> Canon EOS 400D 127 x 94 x 65 mm (5.0 x 3.7 x 2.5 in) 556 g (1.2 lb)
    >> Sony DSLR-A100 133 x 95 x 71 mm (5.2 x 3.7 x 2.8 in) 638 g (1.4 lb)
    >> Pentax K100D 129 x 93 x 70 mm (5.0 x 3.7 x 2.8 in) 660 g (1.5 lb)
    >> Nikon D80 132 x 103 x 77 mm (5.2 x 4.1 x 3.0 in) 668 g (1.5 lb)
    >> Nikon D70 / D70s 140 x 111 x 78 mm (5.5 x 4.4 x 3.1 in) 679 g (1.5 lb)
    >> Nikon D50 133 x 102 x 76 mm (5.2 x 4.0 x 3.0 in) 620 g (1.4 lb)

    >
    > The Olympus E-400 is quite a bit smaller than any of these, but it
    > isn't available in the USA. If you can afford to wait (at a guess,
    > a couple of months) the recently announced E-410 will be available
    > in the USA. Here's a link to dpreview's announcement, including a
    > press release and a hands-on preview:
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0703/07030503olympuse410.asp


    This page also contains links to specifications and to a
    "hands-on" preview. About RAW, it states:

    > In the development of this camera, particular emphasis was placed
    > on boosting performance and further reducing image noise. By
    > incorporating a new image processing engine and sensor, this latest
    > Olympus model produces sensationally clear 10 Megapixel results
    > with accurate colour reproduction, and can boast faster processing
    > speeds, as well as low power consumption. Sequential shooting at up
    > to 3fps with a seven image RAW buffer in burst mode is also possible.


    While it's always smart to view overenthusiastic press releases
    with caution, the E-410 and the earlier E-400 capture RAW images.

    I don't think that Olympus offers a "prime" 24mm lens. The press
    release shows these lenses that cover 24mm:

    > * ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 7-14mm (14-28mm) 1:4.0
    > * ZUIKO DIGITAL 11-22mm (22-44mm) 1:2.8-3.5


    Note the 2x multiplier, vs. the 1.5x and 1.6x multipliers used for
    Nikon and Canon lenses. This is due to the slightly smaller 4/3
    sensor, which can allow for smaller, lighter lenses for comparable
    "35mm equivalent" focal lengths. Other manufacturers that are
    members of the Four Thirds consortium which may have a 24mm lens
    include Kodak, Fuji, Sanyo, Sigma, Panasonic and Leica. I've only
    seen mention made of lenses for 4/3 cameras in Panasonic and Leica
    reviews. If you want a 24mm "prime" because it promises to weigh
    less, and come in a smaller package, check the above two lenses. I
    don't know their dimensions or weights, but they probably fit on the
    low end of the scale, and combined with the diminutive size and
    weight of the E-410 body, should provide a noticeable smaller size
    and weight than any of the other DSLRs, even those using a "pancake"
    lens. The press release, btw, says that the E-410 will be available
    by June 2007. For more real information rather than speculation,
    you might want to check reviews of the similar E-400 and use that as
    a basis for assumptions and extrapolation. :)
     
    ASAAR, Mar 12, 2007
    #17
  18. John Smith

    tomm42 Guest

    On Mar 10, 11:43 am, "John Smith" <> wrote:
    > Looking for a new 'street" edc camera...since the "compact" trend doesn't
    > seem to be cutting it these days (raw becoming hard to find, for example),
    > I'm thinking a mini-dslr might be the way to go...
    >
    > Any thoughts on the he smallest unit I can actually buy in the USA today?
    >
    > Thanks, DP



    John,
    Cost a lot more $ but look into the Epson RD1 or Leica M8. Sigma is
    coming out with a P&S with a DSLR sized chip (Foveon), but the lens is
    an f4 and there is no optical finder. The latest prototype had a hot
    shoe and an available opitcal finder. In many ways not a real street
    shooters camera, can you inagine trying to capture a subtle moment and
    holding a camera at arms length, don't think so.

    Tom
     
    tomm42, Mar 12, 2007
    #18
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