slingshot snooping on torrents?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Dave Jameson, Jun 28, 2009.

  1. Dave Jameson

    Dave Jameson Guest

    Recently when downloading eztv torrents off pirate bay, a peer always
    appears which is giving me data at well over adsl upload speed -
    119-224-143-75.callplus.net.nz is one of the IPs I get.

    Tracing to these makes it look like they are inside slingshot/
    callplusses network. Depending on the torrent they always seem to have
    99.6-99.9% of the file, are not activly downloading from me.

    This concerns me somewhat. Could slingshot have allowed access to
    their network for a copyright enforcement company to place a server to
    try to entrap people? Claims to be running BitComet 1.09 in the list
    of peers but it could be spoofed. .78 .73 and .75 in that subnet are
    all being peers with the files, the parts are passing the hash checks
    so it seems like its serving real parts of the files.

    What are the chances of these peers appearing for my client among the
    several 1000 that are running the torrent I want. I almost never see
    other nz peers and this one group has started appearances just now.
    Dave Jameson, Jun 28, 2009
    #1
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  2. In message
    <>, Dave
    Jameson wrote:

    > Recently when downloading eztv torrents off pirate bay, a peer always
    > appears which is giving me data at well over adsl upload speed -
    > 119-224-143-75.callplus.net.nz is one of the IPs I get.
    >
    > Tracing to these makes it look like they are inside slingshot/
    > callplusses network. Depending on the torrent they always seem to have
    > 99.6-99.9% of the file, are not activly downloading from me.
    >
    > This concerns me somewhat. Could slingshot have allowed access to
    > their network for a copyright enforcement company to place a server to
    > try to entrap people?


    It would be interesting to try to argue that your download was unauthorized,
    given that the source you're getting it from would be uploading on the
    authority of the copyright owners.

    Of course IANAL.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jun 29, 2009
    #2
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  3. Dave Jameson

    impossible Guest

    "Dave Jameson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Recently when downloading eztv torrents off pirate bay, a peer always
    > appears which is giving me data at well over adsl upload speed -
    > 119-224-143-75.callplus.net.nz is one of the IPs I get.
    >
    > Tracing to these makes it look like they are inside slingshot/
    > callplusses network. Depending on the torrent they always seem to have
    > 99.6-99.9% of the file, are not activly downloading from me.
    >
    > This concerns me somewhat. Could slingshot have allowed access to
    > their network for a copyright enforcement company to place a server to
    > try to entrap people? Claims to be running BitComet 1.09 in the list
    > of peers but it could be spoofed. .78 .73 and .75 in that subnet are
    > all being peers with the files, the parts are passing the hash checks
    > so it seems like its serving real parts of the files.
    >
    > What are the chances of these peers appearing for my client among the
    > several 1000 that are running the torrent I want. I almost never see
    > other nz peers and this one group has started appearances just now.


    It would be foolish to to argue that your download was authorized,
    given that the source you're getting it from would be uploading without the
    authority of the copyright owners. Perhaps you should consider abandoning
    piracy.
    impossible, Jun 29, 2009
    #3
  4. Dave Jameson

    peterwn Guest

    On Jun 29, 12:31 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    > In message
    > <>, Dave
    >
    > Jameson wrote:
    > > Recently when downloading eztv torrents off pirate bay, a peer always
    > > appears which is giving me data at well over adsl upload speed -
    > > 119-224-143-75.callplus.net.nz is one of the IPs I get.

    >
    > > Tracing to these makes it look like they are inside slingshot/
    > > callplusses network. Depending on the torrent they always seem to have
    > > 99.6-99.9% of the file, are not activly downloading from me.

    >
    > > This concerns me somewhat. Could slingshot have allowed access to
    > > their network for a copyright enforcement company to place a server to
    > > try to entrap people?

    >
    > It would be interesting to try to argue that your download was unauthorized,
    > given that the source you're getting it from would be uploading on the
    > authority of the copyright owners.
    >
    > Of course IANAL.


    If an agent of a copyright holder is indeed 'serving' the holder's
    works in this manner agreed that there might be legal difficulties.
    However the downloader would have difficulty explaining away those
    parts of the completed download obtained from other sources. The
    agent can also 'leech' the same file (using a separate 'client')
    hoping to get uploads from the offender which the agent did not
    originally 'serve'.

    While a copyright owner would probably have difficulties mounting a
    criminal prosecution, a civil action against the offender is quite on
    the cards since the standard of proof is less than for a criminal
    action, and the financial consequences can be crippling eg bankrupcy -
    > barred from student loans. In an extreme case the copyright owner

    can get a court order under the High Court Rules to allow the agent to
    enter a property and inspect the computer (there are safeguards but
    these are insufficient to enable the raid to be stalled).
    peterwn, Jun 29, 2009
    #4
  5. Dave Jameson

    victor Guest

    peterwn wrote:
    > On Jun 29, 12:31 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    > central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    >> In message
    >> <>, Dave
    >>
    >> Jameson wrote:
    >>> Recently when downloading eztv torrents off pirate bay, a peer always
    >>> appears which is giving me data at well over adsl upload speed -
    >>> 119-224-143-75.callplus.net.nz is one of the IPs I get.
    >>> Tracing to these makes it look like they are inside slingshot/
    >>> callplusses network. Depending on the torrent they always seem to have
    >>> 99.6-99.9% of the file, are not activly downloading from me.
    >>> This concerns me somewhat. Could slingshot have allowed access to
    >>> their network for a copyright enforcement company to place a server to
    >>> try to entrap people?

    >> It would be interesting to try to argue that your download was unauthorized,
    >> given that the source you're getting it from would be uploading on the
    >> authority of the copyright owners.
    >>
    >> Of course IANAL.

    >
    > If an agent of a copyright holder is indeed 'serving' the holder's
    > works in this manner agreed that there might be legal difficulties.
    > However the downloader would have difficulty explaining away those
    > parts of the completed download obtained from other sources. The
    > agent can also 'leech' the same file (using a separate 'client')
    > hoping to get uploads from the offender which the agent did not
    > originally 'serve'.
    >
    > While a copyright owner would probably have difficulties mounting a
    > criminal prosecution, a civil action against the offender is quite on
    > the cards since the standard of proof is less than for a criminal
    > action, and the financial consequences can be crippling eg bankrupcy -
    >> barred from student loans. In an extreme case the copyright owner

    > can get a court order under the High Court Rules to allow the agent to
    > enter a property and inspect the computer (there are safeguards but
    > these are insufficient to enable the raid to be stalled).


    A civil action could only award damages and would then set a precedent.
    The copyright holders don't seem too keen on pursuing that in the NZ
    legal system
    victor, Jun 29, 2009
    #5
  6. Dave Jameson

    peterwn Guest

    On Jun 29, 8:35 pm, victor <> wrote:
    > peterwn wrote:


    >
    > A civil action could only award damages and would then set a precedent.
    > The copyright holders don't seem too keen on pursuing that in the NZ
    > legal system


    Perhaps, but a blatant offending downloader is still exposed to
    potential action and at a guess wiould most probably settle the matter
    out of court to avoid crippling costs.
    peterwn, Jun 29, 2009
    #6
  7. Dave Jameson

    victor Guest

    peterwn wrote:
    > On Jun 29, 8:35 pm, victor <> wrote:
    >> peterwn wrote:

    >
    >> A civil action could only award damages and would then set a precedent.
    >> The copyright holders don't seem too keen on pursuing that in the NZ
    >> legal system

    >
    > Perhaps, but a blatant offending downloader is still exposed to
    > potential action and at a guess wiould most probably settle the matter
    > out of court to avoid crippling costs.
    >
    >

    Are they ?
    So why hasn't it happened ?
    victor, Jun 29, 2009
    #7
  8. Dave Jameson

    eyes Guest

    Dave Jameson wrote:
    > Recently when downloading eztv torrents off pirate bay, a peer always
    > appears which is giving me data at well over adsl upload speed -
    > 119-224-143-75.callplus.net.nz is one of the IPs I get.
    >
    > Tracing to these makes it look like they are inside slingshot/
    > callplusses network. Depending on the torrent they always seem to have
    > 99.6-99.9% of the file, are not activly downloading from me.
    >
    > This concerns me somewhat. Could slingshot have allowed access to
    > their network for a copyright enforcement company to place a server to
    > try to entrap people? Claims to be running BitComet 1.09 in the list
    > of peers but it could be spoofed. .78 .73 and .75 in that subnet are
    > all being peers with the files, the parts are passing the hash checks
    > so it seems like its serving real parts of the files.
    >
    > What are the chances of these peers appearing for my client among the
    > several 1000 that are running the torrent I want. I almost never see
    > other nz peers and this one group has started appearances just now.


    I doubt that it is anything like what you are concerned about. If that
    was the case, it would be more likely they would download off you, not
    upload to you.

    To me it sounds more like there is some sort of torrent proxy to remove
    load of their international bandwidth. Not sure why they would not have
    100% of the file though.
    eyes, Jun 29, 2009
    #8
  9. Dave Jameson

    Richard Guest

    Dave Jameson wrote:

    > What are the chances of these peers appearing for my client among the
    > several 1000 that are running the torrent I want. I almost never see
    > other nz peers and this one group has started appearances just now.


    When I got on one that you had transfered I saw the same peer.

    But no more public trackers... mmkay?
    Richard, Jun 29, 2009
    #9
  10. In message <h29ucg$l2$>, victor wrote:

    > A civil action could only award damages and would then set a precedent.
    > The copyright holders don't seem too keen on pursuing that in the NZ
    > legal system


    I wonder why not. On the one hand they bandy about these huge amounts they
    claim to be losing from "piracy". So it follows that a few court cases to
    curtail these losses would improve their income no end, would it not? So why
    aren't they worth pursuing?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jun 29, 2009
    #10
  11. Dave Jameson

    Tom Allan Guest

    On Jun 30, 10:55 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    > In message <h29ucg$>, victor wrote:
    >
    > > A civil action could only award damages and would then set a precedent.
    > > The copyright holders don't seem too keen on pursuing that in the NZ
    > > legal system

    >
    > I wonder why not. On the one hand they bandy about these huge amounts they
    > claim to be losing from "piracy". So it follows that a few court cases to
    > curtail these losses would improve their income no end, would it not? So why
    > aren't they worth pursuing?


    You know you guys could shell out some money for something like
    astraweb and eliminate the fear
    of getting caught from the back of your minds.
    Tom Allan, Jul 6, 2009
    #11
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